.22 caliber revolver for personal protection for my wife?


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FireInCairo
April 27, 2009, 09:23 PM
I don't think I'd like to take 3 or 4 hollowpoint .22 rounds to the chest. :uhoh:

My wife needs something small, lightweight, and easy to handle. She doesn't like my airweight S&W .38. Too much bang and buck for her delicate hands.

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Ruodo
April 27, 2009, 09:24 PM
Thought about .32 S&W? Its a little bigger, not the best for SD but better than .22

Have you thought about a larger heavier framed .38? Less recoil

indoorsoccerfrea
April 27, 2009, 09:25 PM
well, a bruised hand is a small price to pay for saving her/yours/others lives.

however, you want something she'll practice with. what about something in between .22 and .38? or a heavier .38...

http://www.naaminis.com/index02.html

edit: haha ruodo, great minds think alike, eh?

FireInCairo
April 27, 2009, 09:29 PM
I was considering a larger .38 with more heft, but then she would be less likely to tote it around. Maybe a .32 would be a good compromise? :scrutiny:

Iggy
April 27, 2009, 09:30 PM
Get her to try a steel J frame or a Medium frame .38 Ruger or S&W, your choice.

woad_yurt
April 27, 2009, 09:31 PM
That's what my girlfriend carries. It's a small, nickel-plated hammerless H&R five shooter .32. They're very dependable, very simple and very convenient because they're so small. Finally, something she'll regularly carry 24/7.

A bit bulkier but better, I think, would be an H&R snubby 922. It's perfect for Supermaximums or Velocitors, which hit a little harder than .32 S&W. They hold nine rounds. The 929 had a swing out cylinder, like S&Ws, but they were heavier.

Here's an H&R 922 six shooter in .32 long, which is another virtually non-recoiling cartridge. Federal makes nasty, pretty powerful .32 long wadcutter ammo. I've owned a bunch of 922s and 929s and I know from experience these are good, little guns.

About hollowpoint .22s: I wouldn't sacrifice any penetration at all with .22 LR hollowpoints. I'd use solid points.

Anyway, here's a good one:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/931274012/Guns-For-Sale/Gun-Auctions/Pistols/Harrington-Richardson-Pistols/732_32_SW_LONG.htm

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee150/woad_yurt/pop_wm_851838.jpg

MNinfidel
April 27, 2009, 09:39 PM
Many would suggest a centerfire handgun, I would tend to agree. But you asked for a .22, my suggestion would be a Ruger Bearcat.

tom327
April 27, 2009, 09:41 PM
Those advocating .38s make a good point, but if you are determined to make it a .22, the S&W model 317 AirLite is the way to go:

Model: 317
Caliber: .22LR
Capacity: 8 Rounds
Barrel Length: 1 7/8"
Front Sight: Integral Front
Rear Sight: Fixed
Grip: Rubber Grips
Frame: Small - Chiefs Special Style
Finish: Clear Coat
Overall Length: 6 1/4"
Material: Alloy
Weight Empty: 10.5 oz.

or the 3" HiViz version at 11.9 oz.

I can vouch for the latter--it's a sweet shooter.

It boils down to--what is she more likely to carry?

-Tom

CSA 357
April 27, 2009, 09:42 PM
A 22 beats a sharp stick, i would go with a auto, like a ruger mk 2

RyanM
April 27, 2009, 09:43 PM
I don't think I'd like to take 3 or 4 hollowpoint .22 rounds to the chest.

I would hate to see 3 or 4 angry wasps flying at me, but carrying some wasps in a glass jar with air holes in the lid and some sugar water, and throwing it on the ground in front of the bad guy is also a bad idea. :p

An airweight .32 H&R magnum (they'll work with .32 S&W, like .357 mag and .38 SPL) wouldn't be a bad choice. But have you tried 148 gr target wadcutters in the airweight .38? Wadcutters, despite their low velocity, are the bullet of choice for some people, for a very light kicking .38 load.

And don't rule out some of the pocket sized 9mm autos. Recoil op semi-autos often have a much softer felt recoil than revolvers of the same power and weight.

bhp9mm
April 27, 2009, 11:03 PM
a 22 is better then noting and sure better then a 25 a 22 would not be that bad loaded with ammo like cci Stingers

jaybr
April 27, 2009, 11:09 PM
I went through this not long ago and ended up with a Taurus 22 magnum

stana
April 27, 2009, 11:21 PM
There are advantages to using a 22 for a SD handgun. First and most important is the low cost of ammo allowing cheap and regular pratice.

The skill of the person is more important than the choice of handgun.

You are right in thinking a revolver would be best. Rimfire ammo is less dependable than centerfire. A missfire with a double action revolver is far less of a concern than in a simiauto.

And when she becomes skilled and confident she may want something larger.

(I do know two womem who cary small 22 simi autos)

earplug
April 27, 2009, 11:37 PM
I used to shoot junk yard dogs that lived near my home. I found out quite a bit about bullet performance and the need to hit something that will stop.
I know a rib shot 60 pound dog with a 45 ACP FMJ will just stand there and bleed out. A head shot dog will be dead real quick. I saw little difference between 45 ACP, 44spl, 38 spl and a 22lr rifle.
If you have ever hit a prairie dog or rabbit with a 22LR HP and seen it run away you would have a idea about the fallacy of handgun power.
In my experience a semi auto will be a better weapon then a equal power revolver. The military and law enforcement agencies will agree.
Many revolver shooters only practice by first cocking the hammer. This is not the way to enter a gunfight.
Your wife may be better served with a tip up barrel built by Taurus or Beretta. Many people with small hands or weak fingers have problems with heavy DA triggers and the springs on blow back operated pistols.
If its is going to be a home gun, you might consider a full size pistol with a 22 conversion. In time the center fire upper will be able to be used to full effect.

xstuntman
April 28, 2009, 12:16 AM
I'm not hung up on caliber as much as good ammo and practice. My wife and I both carry .22's loaded with quality ammo like CCI. Besides we can't get handgun ammo here anyhow and barely any 22 stuff.

Someday I might carry a .45lc when we get an open carry, till then a .22 is just fine for us. X

mnrivrat
April 28, 2009, 02:05 AM
Small frame light weight revolver with little recoil and pleasant to shoot.

Some suggestions I am familier with are the Taurus small frame guns. I carry a Model 731 in .32 H&R magnum. You can also shoot .32 S&W or .32 S&W longs through this gun. For SD it would be a good choice for what you are looking for - S&W also made a LT in a J frame gun in this caliber but you will have to look for an old stock or used one as they are no longer in production.

Then there is the .22 magnum in the Taurus Model 941 which is again the small frame light weight and packs considerably more energy the the .22 LR cartridge yet is mild to shoot.

In the .22 LR there is the Taurus model 94 in a light weight gun or the S&W model 317 .

Look at them and a few others and let the wife pick which one she is most comfortable with.

FireInCairo
April 28, 2009, 08:08 AM
Indoor, this is a great suggestion:


http://www.naaminis.com/index02.html

She's been wanting to try an automatic, too.

CDH
April 28, 2009, 08:46 AM
You might also see what's available in the new .327 Mag.

It's much easier to handle than a .357, but is still a great SD round.
I'm thinking that this "might" end up being a very popular caliber for women over time.

CajunBass
April 28, 2009, 08:55 AM
My wife carried a 22 for years. It wasn't a revolver, but a Bersa Firestorm 22. Good little gun. Ten rounds, DA/SA trigger. With good ammo (CCI mini-mags) it went bang every time she pulled the trigger, ejected the spend round, and loaded the next one. Eleven rounds of those were a LOT better than a sharp stick, or crying and begging "Please don't hurt me."

Eventually my wife got herself a Glock 19, but it was HER decision, not mine. She never used that little Bersa as a self-defense weapon, but it would have worked quite well. In the meantime she learned to shoot. She learned to clean a gun. She learned to carry one...when to use it, and when not to. She learned to not be afraid of a gun, that she too, could do this.

Just because she starts with a 22, doesn't mean she has to stay with it forever.

mgkdrgn
April 28, 2009, 08:57 AM
I went through this not long ago and ended up with a Taurus 22 magnum

Got quite a bark and bite for such a little thing, ain't it?

freakshow10mm
April 28, 2009, 09:13 AM
The .327 Fed kicks quite a bit for a .32. I had one when they first came out. I was surprised at the muzzle blast and recoil.

I suggest the .32 H&R or get the .327 and feed it .32 H&Rs for practice and carry a decent .327 Fed load for SD.

gbw
April 28, 2009, 03:59 PM
One idea I might try is to try to find her a good used S&W lightweight (alloy) hammerless .32 or .38. Very small and light. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

It will cost a good bit less than the new Smith .22 LW Revolver, which are very pricy!

Practice then with a very lightly loaded .32 or .38 - any reloader can bring these down to almost no recoil and little noise. Carry with whatever power she can stand. If she ever really needs it the recoil won't matter.

Sorry, pretty much same idea as mnrivrat above.

JImbothefiveth
April 28, 2009, 04:04 PM
my suggestion would be a Ruger Bearcat. He wants it for self defese though. I would also probably stay away from the mini-revolvers. They are light enough they migh have a lot of recoil.

Larry Burchfield
April 28, 2009, 04:14 PM
Have you looked at the SP101 22lr pistol? There is one for sale either here or on rimfirecentral. This would make a good ladies gun and also a nice everyday plinker.
Not to change the subject but if said weapon is to be keep in condition one have you considered a glock in 9 mm. I think they make a model with an external safety now. This would be a soft shooting package. My wife keeps a g-23 with crimson trace grips and w/w silver tips at hand for intruders.
Although I prefer a good revolver myyself.
Larry Burchfield
SEABEES/RVN/67/68/69
DAV

Byron
April 28, 2009, 06:54 PM
Focusing on the question of 22's for defense, the Tarus 94 Lite weight is good. My wife use to fire 357's and 9MM's a lot. Serious health issues do not allow anymore recoil than a 22.A friend has been an EMT many years and worked his way to be over all in his dept.He has told me he has seen many deaths due to 22 LR 40 grain solids.CCI seems to be the best of the lot.
By the way, we had our 38th Anniversary this month. Byron

KBintheSLC
April 28, 2009, 07:03 PM
if you are determined to make it a .22, the S&W model 317 AirLite is the way to go:

I agree... great little guns. And 8 rounds of Velocitor/Stinger/MiniMag fury is nothing to grin at.

jaybr
April 28, 2009, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by MGKDRGN
Got quite a bark and bite for such a little thing, ain't it?

Yes, but virtually no recoil. My daughter (23) finally decided she wanted to learn to shoot. I didn't want to start her on a semi auto and the only revolver I in the collection was a .45 colt.

After 1 session she was hitting the target pretty well (even saved the target to show off) and not one complaint about the recoil.

My only complaint about the gun is the trigger is really heavy, but I understand that is the case with all rimfire revolvers.

Carl Levitian
April 28, 2009, 10:01 PM
My better half has been using a S&W 317 since 1998,

She's been shooting a K22 since high school, and is a wicked shot with it, so she went for the 317 as its a revolver and has 8 rounds. It's very accurite, and the double action is a little heavy but smooth after many thousands of rounds. Very light at 10 or 11 onces. She has the three inch barrel with adjustable sights, and it's her favorite gun next to her K22.

Because of the unrealiable priming of rimfire ammo, I'd stay away from an auto. If the do-do hits the fan, she qwon't have tme to screw around trying to clear a dud. With the double action revolver, just pull the trigger again.

At first the 317 may seem a little expensive, but after you shoot it for a while, you'll realize the quality. Plus the lifetime warentee is nice.

mnrivrat
April 28, 2009, 10:23 PM
One idea I might try is to try to find her a good used S&W lightweight (alloy) hammerless .32 or .38. Very small and light. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

I find that many women I know prefer both light guns ,and light recoil. I understand the concept of using the .22LR for that reason, but if for self defense the .22 mag , .32 H&R magnum , etc are more desirable because they have more energy and can deliver more to the target - a good thing in SD. (I think most will agree with that anyway.)

The light weight guns however can be unpopular in the .38 Spl unless the loads are very mild for that caliber. ( again - speaking for women shooters I know) I fully realize some women can not only handle recoil, but prefer to shoot stronger calibers. No statements will fit all.

I guess what I am going for here is that there is a sizable leap between the .32 S&W long (can be fired out of the .32 Mag guns), and the .38 Spl in even milder loads. I would approach the light weight .38 Spl with caution, and let her shoot it before you buy. In the .32 H&R chambering you have the energy level of a standard .38 Spl load, with less recoil, and can go down from there to the .32 S&W long, or even the .32 S&W to reach nearly zero recoil. It's something to think about anyway .

woad_yurt
April 29, 2009, 08:06 AM
.32 shorts or longs can be useful when dealing with recoil-anxious folks.

My girlfriend's house gun is an Iver Johnson Model 55A Cadet in .32 S&W Long. It's an old clunker but she's really comfortable and skilled (!) with it. Federal makes a strong wadcutter load (strong for .32 long, anyway) with 132 ft lbs muzzle energy. The recoil is negligible; it's a pure pussycat to shoot. .32 long was the target cartridge for many decades and still is popular in Europe.

They punch a perfect, open hole out of a 2X4, too. Word of the day: Cannula

Since it's such a fringe caliber nowadays, there are many older S&Ws chambered in .32 long that sell for very affordable prices, much less than for similar .38 SPL guns.

She carries an old H&R hammerless breaktop in .32 short. It's tiny and she has it with her always. It's an unusual choice but she's comfortable, confident and practiced with it. It's also better than a .22LR.

Yes, I'd rather she shot some stronger caliber but babysteps have worked the best. When I met her, she had never shot a gun. Now she's a permit holder and can drill a target very well.

One thing I learned from this situation (introducing her to guns) has been that, when she's comfortable, her mind is much more open; I suspect most of us are like that. In general, I try and keep that concept in mind nowadays. I'm trying to always remember that delivery is key.

Madcap_Magician
April 29, 2009, 10:20 AM
What about a S&W 60 or Ruger SP101 or something similar... or an LCR if you can get one, loaded with light 148 gr. wadcutters? That's a very light load to shoot and much more effective than a .22, which also suffers from the rimfire reliability issue.

kludge
April 29, 2009, 10:37 AM
Smith and Wesson makes an 8 shot Airweight (9 shot, maybe that's Taurus they have on too) in .22LR and .22 Magnum.

I would DEFINITELY go with the .22 Magnum.

I would absolutely take .22 Magnum with 40gr solids (not HP!) in a revolver over .25ACP, .32 ACP, 32 S&W, and .32 S&W Long.

I would NEVER use a .22 Auto for self defense purposes. (rim lock, bad primers, jams... in a revolver, just pull the trigger again)

The next recommendation would be for her to look at a STEEL revolver in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnum, or .327 Magnum. (far less recoil than an Airweight).

moewadle
April 30, 2009, 08:57 PM
I saw a beautiful one for sale in nickel..double-action, appeal to her eye for a thing of beauty, she can fire it double or single action...Thats the one. Ruger Bearcat has the wrong lines and proportions compared to the style of the reliable Smith and Wesson. (Not that Ruger is unreliable.)

Marlin 45 carbine
April 30, 2009, 09:19 PM
load Velocitor or Interceptor cartridges in that .22LR revolver.
they knock the juice out of a grapefruit imagine a head shot.

Grey Morel
April 30, 2009, 09:38 PM
I would recommend a Smith model 317. Here are the specs:

* Air weight J-Frame (small)
* 8 shot .22LR
* comfortable rubber grips

This model is available in 1 7/8" or 3" barrels, with full grip or rebated grip. Take a look at this model here:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14742&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

GRIZ22
April 30, 2009, 10:22 PM
She doesn't like my airweight S&W .38.

This is the reason you want to stay away from small and lightweight. Small 22 revolvers (even S&W) have heavy springs to ensure ignition of rimfire rounds. Is she going to carry this or is it a house gun? Does she shoot often or rarely?

If she is stuck on 22 and is not going to carry it try a S&W 617, nice trigger, the weight makes it recoil like a capgun, and you have 10 shots. Load it with a quality solid like CCI Mini Mags.

My wife is little and likes my old S&W Model 10 loaded with factory wadcutters.

JWF III
April 30, 2009, 10:57 PM
I'd have to agree with the others suggesting to try a steel frame .38, or the .32 mag. But I do have to admit the I've been toying with the idea of S&W's 351PD. A 7 shot .22 Mag, with a 1 7/8" barrel and a weight of 10.6 oz. I think it would go good with my 360PD, everything's the same except for the chambering.

Wyman

xstuntman
April 30, 2009, 11:15 PM
Before you poo poo the lowly .22 I advise going to the CCI website and checking the stats on the Stingers and Velocitors. This stuff is REALLY surprising for energy and velocity. This isn't your grandads 'ole 22 ammo. X

george29
May 1, 2009, 04:47 PM
I would hate to see 3 or 4 angry wasps flying at me, but carrying some wasps in a glass jar with air holes in the lid and some sugar water, and throwing it on the ground in front of the bad guy is also a bad idea.

Never heard someone compare bullets to insect bites before, tell that to Cho's victims. Also, the Mossad used the Berreta model 70 in .22lr for decades to cap their targets. The Israeli's also used scoped and silenced .22lr Ruger rifles to cap Intifada leaders. The M16 and it's variants are .22 caliber so I would say you are referring to the powder charge of the .22lr and not it's dimensions? Mathematically, if a .223 is effective out to 1000 yards, why wouldn't the .22lr be effective out to say 21 yards, or 7 yards? But I defer to those that have stepped in front of a mere .22lr and pooh poohed it as a viable defensive round for CCW scenarios. Bill Jordan also must have been wrong about the .22 magnum as a viable SD weapon.

thesecond
May 1, 2009, 08:50 PM
Before you've decided against an airweight in .38 special (and/or +P), a quick question .... Did your wife fire these with an 'open' (exposed) backstrap?

I think this makes a big difference in evaluating the sting/recoil one can endure in firing the weapon. IMHO, at least regarding j-frames and similar revolvers, I think it is a bigger factor in felt recoil than considerations of firearm weight and/or load.

People often forget both that semi-auto slides absorb recoil, incidentally, and that revolver shooters eat all the recoil through that backstrap, and if it's exposed, that is one sharp smack. It's the physics of the designs, but that one thing (the backstrap) is a deal-breaker for folks.

Unfortunately, it makes for an unfair 'shootability' comparison, driving some of the newbies away on this one factor, when the revolver may be the best fit, with all the other variables at play (manual of arms, familiarity, concealability, draw and ergonomics, effectiveness of load, mechanical reliability, and germane to this discussion, the availability of a wide range of grips for all manner of hand-sizes and tactical considerations). I've shot wheelies almost exclusively, and having borrowed a 9mm and a .45 acp in semi-auto, once or three times in my lifetime, I realize how spoiled I would've been had I gone that route, without having had experience in the revolver platform first.

If you're set against the .38 special, the other suggestions are good. Smith 317 (.22lr - CCI minimags, velocitors, stingers, 40 grains) or 351 (.22 mag), very heavy trigger pull, but very reliable ignition in double-action. Taurus makes heavier versions, but I'd check them out too. That FIE looks pretty cool.

Also consider buying semi-auto's in .22, not necessarily as a primary, but as a way to introduce yourself, or your wife, to the controls of their analogs in the larger calibers (e.g., Sigpro or 226/228 with .22 conversion, Glock with .22 conversion, Beretta 21A and M9) without the discouraging recoil, until one's ready for it. Good luck, stay safe :)

stinger 327
October 22, 2010, 05:55 PM
load Velocitor or Interceptor cartridges in that .22LR revolver.
they knock the juice out of a grapefruit imagine a head shot.
Don't forget there is the Quik Shot CCI or what today they call the Stinger Segmented HP which breaks up into 3 pieces.
The Aguila ammo has two types of .22 LR both rated at 1,750 fps which is the highest velocity .22 LR you can get.

Old krow
October 22, 2010, 08:29 PM
Mathematically, if a .223 is effective out to 1000 yards, why wouldn't the .22lr be effective out to say 21 yards, or 7 yards?

Not that I am going to intentionally put myself into the line of fire, nor to I plan to get shot with one, I can make an attempt at answering that.

Mathematically, the equation is F=MA. The force = the velocity of the bullet squared times the mass all divided by 450400. The extra comes form converting from meter per seconds to feet and grams to (of all things) slugs.
An 80 grain .223 (rifle)at 1000 yards is 1315 ft/s = 307 ft/lbs (Sierra)
A 40 gr high velocity 22lr is around 140 ft/lbs at the muzzle. (win super-X)
A 22 Magnum in a 22" (rifle) (40 gr CCI) carries 324 ft/lbs at the muzzle
The same bullet out of a 6.5" revolver carries 174 ft/lbs.
A federal 9mm 115 JHP at 1019 ft/s = 265 ft/lbs.
A 60 gr Cor-Bon JHP .32 ACP is 171 ft/lbs at 20'.

The 9mm and .32 were just to put it into perspective, a baseline so-to-speak. If it doesn't specify, then it's muzzle velocity.

I don't think I'd like to take 3 or 4 hollowpoint .22 rounds to the chest.

Nor me. The only concern that I'd have with that is multiple attackers.
I agree with pretty much everything kludge said. I wouldn't use one personally. Recoil isn't an issue for me, but, I'd prefer to see a lady with a .22 magnum rather than nothing.

And whoever said that it was better than a sharp stick was right too.

Somebody said something about shot placement. Amen.

missouri dave
October 22, 2010, 10:29 PM
I'd look at either this

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766363_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

or this

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=367&category=Revolver&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=

stinger 327
October 23, 2010, 12:00 AM
I'd look at either this

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766363_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

or this

http://www.taurususa.com/product-details.cfm?id=367&category=Revolver&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=
I don't know about the pricing on the Taurus .22 Mag but on the S & W at that price I would get a real gun in .357 magnum instead.

stinger 327
October 23, 2010, 12:03 AM
Smith and Wesson makes an 8 shot Airweight (9 shot, maybe that's Taurus they have on too) in .22LR and .22 Magnum.

I would DEFINITELY go with the .22 Magnum.

I would absolutely take .22 Magnum with 40gr solids (not HP!) in a revolver over .25ACP, .32 ACP, 32 S&W, and .32 S&W Long.

I would NEVER use a .22 Auto for self defense purposes. (rim lock, bad primers, jams... in a revolver, just pull the trigger again)

The next recommendation would be for her to look at a STEEL revolver in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnum, or .327 Magnum. (far less recoil than an Airweight).
I agree as far as misfires go on .22 LR and .22 Mags. Reliablity is at stake so with an auto it will jam. With the revolver just pull the trigger for the next round to go off.
When I shoot both .22 LR and .22 Mags I notice I get the same amount of misfires between the two.

stinger 327
October 23, 2010, 12:05 AM
Before you poo poo the lowly .22 I advise going to the CCI website and checking the stats on the Stingers and Velocitors. This stuff is REALLY surprising for energy and velocity. This isn't your grandads 'ole 22 ammo. X
Stingers either in HP or segmented HP are both rated at 1,640 fps. Those Aguilar .22 LR's are at 1,750 fps.

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