30 carbin & small pistol primers


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flipajig
April 28, 2009, 12:54 PM
Ive looked for info for 30 carbine and small pistol primers and cant find any thing. I load and shoot 44mag ruger super blackhawk and a winchester in 44 mag and use large pistol primers in them both. so what would be the differenc in useing sm pistol primers in my blackhawk 30 carbin and my m1. anyone know. thanks

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Eric F
April 28, 2009, 12:58 PM
There was a big thread on this but for m1 carbine use. In a pistol if it is only going to be used in a pistol, I think you will be fine.

Rcmodel will know for sure but I am almost certian for revolver use you will be ok.

1911user
April 28, 2009, 01:34 PM
Ive looked for info for 30 carbine and small pistol primers and cant find any thing.

Bad idea. 30 carbine is a small round, but it operates at higher pressure than normal pistol ammo. That's one good reason to use a rifle primer. The other reason is the floating firing pin in military-origin m1 carbines (that's most of them). Pistol primers are softer and would be much more likely to slam fire. Primers used in military rifle ammo are less sensitive than normal rifle primers to avoid slam fires.

EricF, why would the peak chamber pressure be lower in a pistol compared to the same round fired in a rifle? (hint, it isn't lower)

For all you new reloaders reading this: I know primers are hard to find now, but pistol primers don't belong in normal rifle ammo, period. If the primer isn't strong enough to contain the pressure, it can damage the firearm and possibly hurt the shooter.

rcmodel
April 28, 2009, 02:22 PM
+1 on slam-fires in an M-1 Carbine.

While a pistol primer might not cause a slam-fire in a Carbine, you will be very sorry if it does!

Then there is pressure.
.357 Mag = 35,000.
.44 Mag = 36,000.
.30 Carbine = 40,000.

While a Sm pistol primer will hold 40K, as stated, it is softer & more sensitive then rifle primers and should not be used in M-1 Carbines due to the floating firing pin.

rc

Eric F
April 28, 2009, 04:14 PM
Just for refrence though, will it be ok in a revolver?

EricF, why would the peak chamber pressure be lower in a pistol compared to the same round fired in a rifle It wouldnt be any lower, however the major concern with spp in the 30 carbine is the chance to slam fire. My refrence was for pistols, more specificaly revolvers.

1911user
April 28, 2009, 07:16 PM
I'd stay away from maximum loads if using 30 carbine in a revolver with pistol primers.

RC's pressure numbers show 30 carbine is 5Kpsi above SAAMI max pressure for magnum pistol ammo. That's something to respect. It's a hot little round. This primer situation is forcing some crazy choices. Good luck to us all!

MMCSRET
April 28, 2009, 11:36 PM
I have experienced failure to fire with 30 Carbine factory ammo in the Ruger, especially with PMC and S&B. I load my ammo for the Ruger using SP primers and AA#9. Works well.

rcmodel
April 29, 2009, 01:20 PM
RC's pressure numbers show 30 carbine is 5Kpsi above SAAMI max pressure for magnum pistol ammo.But, SAAMI dropped the pressure on both .357 & .44 Mag several years ago.

Pistol primers were used with both calibers when the SAAMI pressure was higher then the .30 Carbine.

My 1979 Speer #10 lists:
.30 Carbine at 40,000 CUP w/ Sm Rifle primers.
.357 Mag at 46,000 CUP w/ Sm Pistol primers.
.44 Mag at 43,500 CUP w/ Lg Pistol primers.

Again, the only real reason for Sm Rifle primers in the .30 Carbine is the slam-fire possibility in the M-1 Carbine with Pistol primers.

rc

loadedround
April 29, 2009, 05:12 PM
USE RIFLE PRIMERS IN THE 30 CARBINE ROUND. iT WAS DESIGNED AS A RIFLE ROUND AND OPERATES AT MUCH HIGHER PRESSURE THAN A PISTOL ROUND. YOUR EYES ARE MUCH TOO IMPORTANT TO TAKE A CHANCE ON A BLOWN OR PIERCED PRIMER. :uhoh:

rcmodel
April 29, 2009, 05:15 PM
AND OPERATES AT MUCH HIGHER PRESSURE THAN A PISTOL ROUND.Actually it doesn't.

See post #8.

rc

1911user
April 29, 2009, 10:06 PM
Listen to RCModel on this issue. He is the expert.

46K CUP in 357 mag, WOW!!! I knew some loaded it hot, but never knew it was saami sanctioned. They actually used pistol primers for those loads???

Again, listen to RCModel. He is the reloading mentor we all wish lived next door.

jcwit
April 30, 2009, 10:13 AM
If he lived next door we'd probably drive the poor man nuts.
Man its nice to have the internet where someone with his knowledge can share it with us all. Who would have ever thought we would have this 40-50 years ago.

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