[dbshabo]

I was recently told that after using a solvent that contains ammonia to cut copper that flushing out the bore with isopropyl alcohol will neutralize the ammonia. Anyone out there know if this is true? Will ammonia damage the bore if it's not removed?

Shabo

[Joe Demko]

Isopropy alcohol and ammonia solutions don't react when mixed. so I doubt that the alcohol does anything to "neutralize" the ammonia. The alcohol is just an aqueous solution anyway, so the most that it could do is risnse the ammonia from the barrel the way plain water would. The alcohol component would let it dry a little quicker. I've read in several places that a strong ammonia solution left in contact with a chrome-lined bore is bad ju-ju.

[Brian Williams]

Both ammonia and alcohol are hydroscopic (I think) which means they absorb water, not a good idea to have something that holds water in it to be soaking in the bore. Ammonia will take out leading but get it out as soon as you are done.

[98G]

///I've read in several places that a strong ammonia solution left in contact with a chrome-lined bore is bad ju-ju.///


Reactivity series of metals.....Ammonia reacts with chrome, but reacts more with copper....So when the copper is gone, it will start in on the chrome...

98G

[SCarruth]

I think flushing the barrel out with vinegar might neutralize the base(NH3) but will leave a salt behind. I am only guessing of course. Another idea would be to use soap and water. Hope this helps

[dbshabo]

Sounds like the concensus is that alcohol will not neutralize ammonia. Does ammonia evaporate as alcohol does? Will left behind ammonia react with powder in a negative way? Am I being concerned about a non problem? I never considered this question till this weekend when Einstein told me that ammonia shouldn't be left in the bore. Maybe he's still laughing at me huh?

Shabo

[Grump]

I don't play one on TV either.

Ammonia is a gas at room temperature and pressure. Our "ammonia" used in borecleaning is water with the gas dissolved in. Yes, the ammonia *will* evaporate, but I don't know if it goes away faster, slower, or at the same rate as the H2O.

I used max-strength 28% ammonia on a very fouled barrel in a milsurp I bought years ago. Four days of 3-4x per day, and there was no pitting, no rusting, no nothing, in a 28-50% humidity environment. NEVER risk splashing that stuff in your eyes--pernament irreversible cornea damage will result!

Just dry-patch after your borecleaner, then apply a light coat of oil like Break-Free, or at least old military oil. If you're really concerned about those few billion ammonia molecules left in there, do two patches of plain 'ol water between the dry patch and the oil.

Trust me--there cannot be enough ammonia left around after borecleaning to adversely affect powder. The planet Jupiter (or wazzit/also? Venus?), on the other hand, will kill almost anything with its ammonia atmosphere. The temperatures and pressures also play into it. You'll get more tarnish on your brass from humidity than you will from a faint scent of ammonia, which will dissipate in a few hours.

[mete]

Ammonia is in bore cleaners to remove copper. However ammonia and its related compounds attack copper . It will do more than just tarnish brass , it can cause cracking , keep it away from brass. Hot soapy water should take care of it.

[Brian Dale]

dbshabo: yeah, I used to be a chemist. Now I write math books; I like having a job where I won't get poisoned, blown up or set on fire. :D Sounds like the consensus is that alcohol will not neutralize ammonia. Does ammonia evaporate as alcohol does? Will left behind ammonia react with powder in a negative way? Am I being concerned about a non problem? Alcohol evaporates faster. Household ammonia (3% sol'n?) evaporates about as fast as water, and the evaporation rate of the product you're using will depend on its components. You don't need to worry about a chemical rxn with powder residue as much as you need to fight our eternal enemy: Rust. Rust IS a real problem, I promise (don't ask me how I know this :uhoh: ). After all, guns are perfectly able to last for generations with proper care.

You and Golgo are right: alcohol will not neutralize the ammonia (it's a base, or alkali: acids neutralize bases) but it will physically wash the ammonia out of the bore. Oil and water don't mix, but alcohol can mix with both aqueous solutions AND oils (that's just one of the properties of light alcohols such as methyl, ethyl, propyl, isopropyl). That means that the alcohol left behind in the bore won't repel the gun oil on the patch that you'll run through the bore after it. You want a microscopic film of oil on the inside of the barrel, not traces of water in there. Ammonia solution alone would leave traces of water on the metal that might both repel the oil and contribute to rust. Yes, run a couple of clean patches through the bore before you go shooting the next time, just to get any excess oil out.

Bottom line: aqueous solutions are unfriendly to metal over the long term; any water in contact with the surface can lead to rust. Oils, greases and nonpolar solvents (such as petroleum products and synthetic oils) do not react with iron to cause rust on steel, AND they repel water. From the standpoint of chemistry alone, you could rinse with alcohol followed by a lot of (Don't - EVER) gasoline to repel water, but then you encounter that pesky problem of getting blown up and set on fire (and mildly poisoned, to boot). Gasoline also doesn't stay behind to protect the metal; use a less dangerous solvent, then a lubricant. I like brake cleaner (same as Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber; don't get any on ya, and use it outdoors), and I like Ed's Red bore cleaner. People here at THR have recommended Breakfree CLP, FP-10 and militec-1, and other things.

{Note: I just searched THR on "cleaning barrel" and got 25 pages of results}

{Perfessr - spelling nitpick that only matters because of what the word fragments mean: the word is hygroscopic, with a "G." This goofy word refers to a material that actually draws moisture out of the air and holds it.} dbshabo, think of what happens inside a salt shaker in extended humid weather. It turns to moosh, and just keeps attracting water. Rumor has it that WD-40 is hygroscopic, too; I don't leave it on guns.

SCarruth, your chemistry is correct, as far as it goes. Soaking the barrel in concentrated nitric acid for a week will also neutralize the ammonia. I don't recommend either method. :banghead: I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but it's not a good plan: traces of vinegar left inside a barrel would be much worse than ammonia.

{Grump posted while I've been typing. I agree with Grump, but I'd do one thing differently:If you're really concerned about those few billion ammonia molecules left in there, do two patches of plain 'ol water between the dry patch and the oil. Rubbing alcohol's cheap, and I'd use it instead of water for those coupla patches. No big deal.}

[Chipperman]

Just pour bleach in after the ammonia. :barf:

JUST KIDDING. DO NOT DO THIS!!!!

I'm sure everyone already knows this, but bleach and ammonia will make your lungs very unhappy.

[Brian Dale]

{Pompous know-it-all mode (back) ON}
And bleach and chlorine gas http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/crossbones.gif are oxidizers; they'll rust your guns in no time flat.
{/Pompous know-it-all mode OFF}

{Edited to remove even more irrelevant smileys that just slow everyone's page loading}

{Oops, sorry mete; before I saw your post, I got rid of the part you're referring to. It was about chlorine gas having been used in World War I}

[mete]

Chipperman, ammonia + bleach CAN BE FATAL.. but I do agree - happiness is a warm P7.

[rayra]

Heck, I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night and I STILL can't figure out what the ammonia-corrosive hubbub is about - doesn't anyone properly clean their rifles after a trip to the range?

[Brian Dale]

Not the .22s. :evil:

Out of curiosity, I just searched on "cleaning rimfire," and it returned 27 THR threads. Centerfire? How much reading time do you have?

It's fun.

See also http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P2244 and http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P2244 {Note: some of his language would not be seen here at THR; if you don't mind reading for the info and ignoring the cursing, then go ahead}