[Newton]

I have a Yugo SKS that I really enjoy shooting, 100% reliable, almost zero recoil, cheap ammo etc etc. I'm even happy with the accuracy, I can put all my shots in a 12 inch target at 100 yards. But compared to other rifles, that type of accuracy is poor, and it isn't just my shooting.

The SKS is known as an inaccurate semi-auto, I have someone elses technical manual with my gun, and the hand marked Yugoslav 100 meter test target shows a 22cm (9 inch) bench rest group, which is pretty lousy.

The gun has plenty of barrel, and shoots a conventional spitzer shaped 123 grain bullet, so where's the problem at. Is the ammo at least part way to blame, is it that barrel, something about the basic construction, what ?

Anyone got the answer.

[Joe Demko]

9 inches? I don't think I've ever seen an SKS that couldn't do an awful lot better than that. My WAG is that the problem is crap ammo rather than crap guns.

[Snowdog]

Much of the time, intrinsic inaccuracy isn't as much to blame as lousy sights.
Pop a quality scope on a (correctly installed) scope mount and see the difference.

[SodaPop]

I shoot cans with my Russian SKS at 100yds, but I gotta fight the heavy trigger if I want to group anything.

The SKS trigger is the worst semi-auto trigger I've ever shot.

I've heard of guys getting 1.5in groups with 150gr reloads.

I sold off one of my Russian Saigas and SKS rifles after my Mini 14 out performed them at my 500yd range.

I kept one.

[Engineer]

The SKS trigger is the worst semi-auto trigger I've ever shot.


Here's a quick fix for the SKS trigger - Wolff Spring Kit (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16543&title=RIFLE+SPRINGS+%26+TUNE-UP+KITS) (In case the URL doesn't work, look up item 969-301-900 on Brownell's website).

[JShirley]

Sights may be the biggest problem. Had a buddy pop a 20 oz soda bottle at 100 meters with one shot with my SKS, a few years ago.

[Mike Irwin]

When I put my SKS in a Choate stock and shimmed it down, and then took the gas operating rod out so that it was acting as a straight pull bolt action, put a scope on it, and used Winchester ammo, I turned in several sub 1.5" groups at 100 yards some years ago.

The SKS is generally "inaccurate" due to a combination of a short stock, an action that fits loosely in the stock, it has rather loose tolerances to promote functionality, fairly poor sights, a generally bad trigger with a fairly violent hammer fall, and much of the surplus ammo that is available never was intended for accuracy work.

[SodaPop]

Engineer- how much of a difference does that make?

[Engineer]

SodaPop, the difference is fairly noticeable - in a blind "taste test", I could easily pick out the SKS with the reduced power spring kit. The pull is just as long as the stock trigger, but lighter and seemingly smoother. Because of my C&R discount, the kit only cost me $6, but I think it would be worth it at full price. The next time I place an order with them, I'll probably order enough kits to retrofit the rest of my SKS's.

[BamBam-31]

Trigger, ammo, and sights.

Trigger: Use aforementioned Wolff springs. Polish up the sear a little while you're at it. It's not complicated, but it is rather difficult to disassemble and reassemble the SKS trigger group. Worth it, though.

Ammo: Don't use Wolf ammo and expect 1.5" groups. Not gonna happen. I use American Eagle to shoot my SKS off a bench, and I get 3" groups regularly. Not too shabby. Probably even better with handloads, but I'm not a handloader.

Sights: The front sight is okay (I filed mine down a bit to make it perfectly flat). The rear sight can be replaced with a Williams peep or a Mojo. Helps a lot. Also available from Brownell's.

If you're expecting sub 2" groups at 100 yds. from the SKS, then it definitely is an inaccurate gun. You might want to look into a milsurp bolt for that kind of accuracy in that price range. 3" groups are easily attained, and for a $200 semi that's as rugged and reliable as the SKS, that's A-okay with me.

[Nightcrawler]

Remember, 7.62x39mm guns have varying bore diameters. 7.62x39mm has varying bullet diameters (from .308" to .311"). You get the picture. You get a .308 bullet rattling down a .311 bore it's not going to help accuracy.

Try the Wolf 154 grain soft points. I've heard they produce better accuracy.

[hillbilly]

I want to ask a question, but before I do, I want to make a few things completely clear.

I love rifles. I love accurate rifles the best. I own a rifle which I have poured a bunch of cash into to make it as accurate as possible. I've spent more money than I should have to take long range, precision shooting courses.

That being said, here is my question:

With an SKS, who cares what sized groups your are getting as long as it shoots somewhere around "minute of sky blue helmet" out to about 250 yards or so?

It's a semiautomatic milsurp in an assault rifle caliber that usually costs less than $200. Most of the time, it's fed greasy, cheapo milsurp or milspec ammo that costs only pennies a round.

If you've got an SKS that shoots only 9 inch groups at 100 yards, why not just sell it, and then buy another one, and keep repeating that process until you get one that shoots 2 or 3 inch groups at 100 yards?

SKS rifles are not designed to be tack drivers, or even match accurate.

They are for engaging man-sized targets out to about 300 yards or so.

hillbilly

[goon]

My AK will do about 4" at 100M, and my brother's Norinco SKS will do a little better than that. I don't think that it is really any more accurate, I think that the extra distance between the sights just makes it easier to shoot.
Last weekend, I made four shots on 200M steel chickens in a row before the gun got hot and I started missing.
I was resting against a pole.
I would think that even an SKS would do better than most shooters could do offhand at 100M.
I think that it might just be an individual case with your rifle.

[Dorrin79]

agree with pretty much everybody else here.

9 inches is pretty bad - I'd sell it and try a few more until I got one in the 3-4" range. I'm a pretty dismal shot and I get 3-4" groups at 100yds from my Yugo with regularity.

That trigger group looks neat too - I may have to get one of those

[chaim]

I think everyone else hit it, but just to put it all together in one place:

Loose tolerances: The US AR has a reputation for being fairly accurate and for having the potential to be a tack driver. It also has the reputation for sometimes being a bit finicky. The Soviet AK and SKS have reputations for being somewhat inaccurate but amazingly reliable. Our military philosophy (at least theoretically, and especially with the USMC) is that everyone is a rifleman and that soldiers should be able to hit what they aim at. If that makes the rifle a little more finicky, so be it, there are other guys with you on the field shooting while you are clearing a malfuction. The Russian attitude was to get as many rounds downrange as reliably as possible (and with a lot of guys doing it). With that degree of firepower you'd be bound to make the battlefield an unpleasant place for your opponents. Accordingly the US AR is made with relatively tight tolerances for accuracy and the SKS and AK are made with pretty loose tolerances for reliability.

Bad trigger

Ammo that is relatively inaccurate: Yes many people use milsurplus or Wolff which is less accurate than better ammo. However, even with good ammo, in a good gun, 7.62x39 doesn't have a reputation as a tack driver (check out the CZ bolt rifle in 7.62x39, even handloaded ammo will only get you so-so accuracy and CZ usually makes good, accurate, rifles).

Sights: Practically invisable.

These are fun guns, but that is something in the feel of them, not the accuracy. No one really is surprised that they aren't very accurate as they don't have a reputation for accuracy. Now that I finally have a new front sight on mine so it will hit something (the original front sight was actually broken so I, and others, had trouble getting on paper at 25 yards originally) I don't worry about super accuracy. When I want more accuracy I go to a different rifle. When I just want some fun plinking/blasting that is as accurate as it needs to be, I use the SKS.

[MAKOwner]

My AKs and SKS all shoot around 3-4 inch groups at 100 just resting on crap on my shooting table shooting whatever the cheap ammo is at the time. With a proper rest and 9 inch groups I'd say you either have a lemon, the shakes, or poor eyesight or a combo of the three...

[plateshooter]

I have found that bedding the action is one of the best accuracy enhancers on my SKSs. From a bench, I can stay right around 4" at 100 yds shooting at a 5.5" Shoot N See target with Barnaul FMJ ammo. It would be hard to do much better with the stock SKS sights unless you have really good eyes.
I agree with Engineer on the Wolf Spring Kits. Made a big difference in my rifle.

[Matt G]

I'd have to say that Bam-Bam-31 got it right.


FWIW, the old yellow box Norinco 124g ammo gave surpisingly match-like standard deviations, when my father and I chronographed it. We found several boxes that would give ~10 fps SD. Amazing. I take pride in hand-weighed handloads that will give under 20 fps S.D.

My Norinco SKS gives me about 4" at 100 yds, off of a steady rest.

[twoblink]

A few reasons I can think of..

First, it's reliable because of some loose tolerances..
Second, I seem to recall running something like 3000 rounds through mine before I cleaned it.. (and a half-hearted effort to clean it at that!) If there was a gun at the end of a shoot that I didn't clean, it would be my SKS..
Third, the sights suck. I popped a cheap $40 scope on it and the groups shrunk by about 60%.
Forth, if you are running wolf ammo through it, probably not the most accurate or consistant ammo out there...
Fifth, I don't know of anybody who owns a "new" SKS, and so most have seen better days..

[jar]

The SKS is known as an inaccurate semi-auto, I have someone elses technical manual with my gun, and the hand marked Yugoslav 100 meter test target shows a 22cm (9 inch) bench rest group, which is pretty lousy.

I find mine to be a little more accurate than that but...

9" at 100 yards makes a pretty effective battle rifle.

[Beetle Bailey]

I hope I'm not beating a dead horse here, but 9-12" 100 yard groups just don't seem right, even for an SKS. The only modifications I made to my SKS are a Mojo peep sight and a muzzle brake and I was a little down about the accuracy of it until a buddy who will go unnamed (but his initals are BamBam-31) said "let me see that." He processed to take 40 rounds of my American Eagle ammo and consistantly make 2.5" 5-shot groups at 100 yards with it. What was really messing me up was the trigger over-travel. BTW, he also said my SKS was fitted tighter than his (they are both Yugos) and that's why he shot better with mine than his own. So if you do decide to trade it in for another one, look for one where nothing rattles if possible. I would try a few mods first, though.

[Sleeping Dog]

Engineer, how do you get the trigger group apart? I gave up after fighting the resistance of that hammer spring. Is there a trick to disassembling (without coating all the metal with blood)?

Regards.

[Engineer]

Engineer, how do you get the trigger group apart? I gave up after fighting the resistance of that hammer spring. Is there a trick to disassembling (without coating all the metal with blood)?

Sleeping Dog,

I believe I used this page and followed their disassembly instructions: http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/sks/trig1.htm.

As for getting the hammer spring out, I think I used a pair of padded locking vice grips to give me a little bit more leverage and then braced it against a piece of wood and muscled it out. IIRC, getting it back in was even more of a pain than getting it out, but in the end, it was worth it, if just to clean out all the gunk inside the trigger group.

[BamBam-31]

I put the rear end of the trigger group in a padded vise, then clamped the hammer down low with a pair of pliers and pushed it back til it cleared. Cursed it profoundly during the whole process, too.

Wait til you have to put it back in again. :banghead: :cuss:

[hillbilly]

Here's one more thing to remember.

Even if you are shooting 4MOA at 100 yards, that's still plenty good.

That means if your rifle keeps all shots inside a circle about 4 inches in diameter, that's plenty good shooting, especially for a combat rifle.

A recent column written by Fred of Fred's M-14 stocks pointed out that even 4MOA shooting means that the shooter is perfectly capable of hitting a gallon milk jug at 300 yards with consistency.

Let's see, a gallon milk jug is approximately the size of a human head, right?

Consistent 300 yard head shots is still purty dang good shootin'...............


Even if you can get that SKS down to 4 inch groups at 100 yards, you're right where you need to be.

hillbilly

[swingset]

My Yugo SKS will do 3-4" groups with nearly every cruddy ammo. That's perfectly acceptable.

The Ruskies I've owned were more in the 4-5" group, but that's still fine for a combat rifle.

They go bang every time, work all the time, and an ape can make them run. I believe that's the selling point, IIRC.

[Sleeping Dog]

Engineer and BamBam, thanks for the encouraging (haha) words on disassembling the trigger group. I'll wolf down a can of spinach and have at it again.

I went to the suggested web site and got the following enlightening instructions: "Compress the hammer spring ( 54) by hand, this will take some effort". Somehow, I knew that :)

At the factory, they were probably assembled by a little old lady using a device with a big lever.

Regards.

[MolonLabe416]

Here's a trick I learned when I fooled with the SKS when it was first imported some years ago. BTW, I think the little SKS is a dandy carbine for fun or trunk.

Anyway, take a 12 bore plastic shotgun shell that's been shot. Cut off the brass base. Cut the hull in half length wise. Take half and install under the handguard on the barrel. This usually cut my groups in half.

I had replaced the backsight with a Williams Peep. It or the Mojo are highly recommended.

The only other mods I made where to mill off the bayonet mount, file it flush with the barrel, reblue, and dehorn, especially the mag release. Mine were about razor sharp.

Enjoy.

[Feanaro]

NINE inches? Sheesh. I'm not a great shot and I use Wolf ammo but I can do 3-6 inches pretty easy. I'd try someone else's SKS and see what you can get out of it.

[Fatcat]

Don't worry, you're not the only one that has trouble shooting the SKS. I consider myself a decent rifleman, but I have absolutely no chance with an un-modified SKS. The stock is just too dang short to shoot well; for me anyway.

Get a normal sized stock for it, and we're talkin'. :D

[Gary H]

My Yugos will hit a 10" gong at 200 yards from the shoulder..all day. Fun rifles to shoot. They really don't beat you up. As soon as I get rid of my corrosive ammo.. I'll only use non-corrosive. Mojo sitting around waiting to be installed. Aftermarket stock increased LOP and made it much easier to shoot.