And the Spies and Bureaucrats Shall Keep you Free?


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Jeff White
October 14, 2003, 03:09 PM
Sept. 11 Panel Weighs MI5-Like Agency
Tue Oct 14, 6:49 AM ET

By LAURENCE ARNOLD, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Advocates of major changes to the U.S. intelligence establishment are making their case to the independent commission studying the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

James B. Steinberg, deputy national security adviser in the Clinton administration, said Monday that he supports making two new entities: an independent director of national intelligence and a domestic security service modeled after Britain's MI5.

In an interview, Steinberg said U.S. counterterror efforts remain hampered by decades-old walls separating by law the work of the FBI and CIA. The FBI operates domestically and traditionally focuses on catching people who break laws, while the CIA works abroad and focuses on learning secrets.

"The beauty of the MI5 model is it breaks down both those walls," said Steinberg, director of foreign policy studies at the Brookings Institution.

Steinberg is scheduled to testify Tuesday at a hearing for the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States. Other witnesses will include James R. Schlesinger and John M. Deutch, who, as former directors of central intelligence, led the CIA and all other U.S. intelligence operations.

The 10-member, bipartisan commission is considering changes to recommend in U.S. intelligence that would go well beyond actions by the Bush administration. The commission has until May 27 to submit a report dealing with law enforcement, diplomacy, immigration, commercial aviation and the flow of assets to terror organizations.

Talk of changing the U.S. intelligence agencies stems from concerns that they do not work closely together. A joint House-Senate inquiry after the Sept. 11 attacks concluded that serious failings by U.S. intelligence leaders left the country vulnerable.

Commission chairman Thomas H. Kean said the panel has several ideas to make U.S. intelligence more effective, "including the question of whether the United States should establish a Director of National Intelligence."

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., proposed legislation to split the duties of the current director of central intelligence into two jobs: a CIA director and a national intelligence director.

The national intelligence director, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate to a 10-year term, would oversee all intelligence agencies, setting priorities for collecting information and monitoring cooperation. The duty of the CIA director would be limited to running that one agency.

The idea of a new U.S. domestic security agency gained some momentum last year when Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge visited MI5 headquarters in Britain. But Ridge said he doubted the Bush administration would create a similar agency, because MI5's powers would be unacceptable under the U.S. Constitution.

FBI Director Robert Mueller also opposes the idea of an American M15, saying that it is based on "a faulty understanding of counterterrorism that sees a dichotomy between `intelligence operations' and `law enforcement operations.'"

MI5 describes itself as Britain's defensive security intelligence agency. It cannot detain or arrest its targets but seeks to "to gain the advantage over (them) by covertly obtaining information about them" for countering their activities.

The Bush administration has worked to improve intelligence gathering and sharing since the Sept. 11 attacks. It created a Terrorist Threat Integration Center to bring together information gathered by the CIA, FBI and other agencies. The center reports to the CIA director but is not part of the agency.

Also, President Bush recently said the FBI, under new powers granted by the USA Patriot Act, "is now dedicated to preventing future attacks" instead of just investigating past crimes.

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telomerase
October 14, 2003, 08:29 PM
What we need is a Commission in Charge of Minding Our Own Business, working in tandem with a program to get dictators of welfare.

KC
October 14, 2003, 09:48 PM
<setmode sarcasm1>
FEAR! ALARM! YOU SHOULD BE SO SCARED YOUR TOES ARE SHRIVELING UP!!!

It will all be better if we add yet another Federal agency whose sole purpose is to indiscriminatly spy on your life and expose your (formerally private) life, with little accountability at any level. Just do as I demand...er, say, and all will be better. You will be made safe.

You want to be safe dont you?

Why dont you want to be made safe? What are you hiding?

Anyone who opposes being made safe, must be unsafe, and a threat to the People. This creeping danger must be excised immediatly and with ruthless determination. Do it for the children.

<setmode sarcasm0>

Oh, hey. This...creature...was a Clinton administration appointee. What a friggen surprise.:barf:

Mark Tyson
October 14, 2003, 09:56 PM
If I'm correct:

It was intentional that the FBI and CIA be assigned separate duties to prevent either one from becoming all-powerful. Recently, though the FBI has been doing a lot of overseas reminiscent of a covert action force - even working with the military.

Tamara
October 15, 2003, 12:31 AM
But Ridge said he doubted the Bush administration would create a similar agency, because MI5's powers would be unacceptable under the U.S. Constitution.

Since when has that slowed anybody in DC down? :confused:

Denver
October 15, 2003, 01:34 AM
I once complained that some gummint agancy in my state was inefficient and slow.

My interlocutor suggested that an efficient gummint is not a thing to be desired unless you are a Statist. Long live the mighty religion of Statism!

Can we have legislation passed to prevent the gummint from using computers?

Who was it who said that military intelligence is an oxymoron?

Brian Dale
October 15, 2003, 03:34 AM
KC, spying on you is not the goal. Spying on you is just a task, the purpose of which is to give empire builders a rationale for larger budgets and more impressive jobs. Bigger government is the means to a better career path. After all, when you merge multiple units in an organization, somebody's got to be in charge of the whole thing. Foreign travel and covert operations are plums, too, but the main attraction is power. I've worked for managers in the private sector who would have eaten broken glass for opportunities like these.

twoblink
October 15, 2003, 04:41 AM
To quote Jeff White.. while we were in his truck, he told me "This state is basically a great state, if you'll ignore the cancer we call Chicago.."

:D

That said, America is basically a great country if you'll ignore the cancer we call DC..

Tamara.. Most of the hogs in DC think "The Constitution" is a brand of toilet paper :barf:

Jeff White
October 15, 2003, 09:38 PM
Washington Post
October 15, 2003
Pg. 3

Ex-Chiefs Disagree On Intelligence Overhaul

By Dan Eggen, Washington Post Staff Writer

A former CIA director yesterday endorsed a drastic overhaul of the nation's intelligence system, while another said radical change could make matters worse.

The opposing views of former directors John M. Deutch and James R. Schlesinger, who testified before a bipartisan commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, illustrate the depth of disagreement among experts over whether intelligence failures before the attacks can be solved through major reforms.

The debate over the creation of a domestic intelligence agency akin to Britain's is a central question facing the commission, a 10-member panel created by Congress to investigate issues related to the attacks in New York and on the Pentagon.

Deutch, who ran the CIA for two years during the Clinton administration, said that the government should create a domestic intelligence agency to take over counterterrorism responsibilities from the FBI and vest the director of central intelligence with more authority.

Greater centralization "is the best way to improve intelligence and the safety of the American people," Deutch said.

But Schlesinger, who headed the CIA during the Richard M. Nixon years, urged caution. "Tinkering with the organizational structure can help, but by itself will not produce major improvement," Schlesinger said.

Yesterday's hearing -- the fourth held publicly since the panel was formed last year -- was interrupted by a lengthy emergency meeting that involved a "remarkable development" related to disputes over access to documents between the commission and the Bush administration, according to chairman Thomas H. Kean.

A commission spokesman said the development involved an agency other than the White House, but Kean and other members declined to reveal any other details. Kean said the panel will release more information by today. Several administration officials declined to comment or said they were unaware of the dispute.

Kean, a Republican former New Jersey governor, and the commission's vice chairman, former representative Lee H. Hamilton (D-Ind.), have said that the panel's work would be harmed if it does not receive access to crucial administration documents immediately. The commission has subpoena power.

The panel, which has come under sharp criticism from some relatives of Sept. 11 victims for not being aggressive enough in demanding information from the Bush administration, is legislatively required to release a final report in May that will cover broad areas of intelligence policy, border security, airline safety and other matters.

Stephen Push, who heads the group Families of September 11, said he and other relatives are frustrated because "the deadlines always seem to be pushed back" on obtaining key documents, which sources have said include classified presidential daily bulletins issued in the weeks before the attacks.

kbr80
October 15, 2003, 10:06 PM
But Ridge said he doubted the Bush administration would create a similar agency, because MI5's powers would be unacceptable under the U.S. Constitution.


They do not need an agency like MI5, the patriot act will do.

PrudentGT
October 16, 2003, 05:04 AM
Isn't it about time they created a federal agency tasked solely with protecting citizen rights against encroachment by government agencies? You know, give them a mandate to ensure that federal agencies recognize their limited and enumerated powers? Limit their powers of arrest to civil 'servants' and give them quotas, like sending at least one member of congress and one federal judge per year to the penitentiary...

Denver
October 16, 2003, 01:34 PM
Prudent,

Asking someone else to do the things we really ought to do ourselves is very nicely adressed by Richard Roberts in he excellent Essay, "Tao of Gun".

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/tao.asp

"What can I do?" is the question. IMHO.

There already is a "federal" entity tasked with guarding us from government encroachment. It's us.

Vote. Pay attention. Write letters. Educate the ignorant. Chastise the arrogant. Above all, Pray and Keep your guns clean and functioning.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

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