[SaxonPig]

I think the thread I started about this auction has been deleted for some reason as it no long appears on the list threads I started. I won't post a link or even the auction number as maybe that was unacceptable. But I listed a single round of 45 ACP ammo on Gun Broker with a starting price of $1,250 as a joke and commentary on the current madness with ammo prices and it has now drawn three bids. Current price is $1,325.

I never meant for anyone to actually buy it at that price but GB will want the selling fee.

[Aw4g63]

Gunbroker says: Check mate.

[98C5]

Well, if that bidder is crazy enough to buy it, go for it!!

[DeepSouth]

Offered for your consideration is one round (not one case or one box but one single round) of genuine .45 ACP ammunition. This is something rarely seen (at least since November 4th) and is hard to find at any price. The round of ammo includes a real brass casing; one full metal jacket bullet weighing 230 grains; a generous amount of hard-to-obtain gunpowder; and one nearly impossible to locate primer. Yes, you read that correctly. This round of ammo actually comes fully equipped with a real primer! Just try finding one of those! Imagine the thrill of actually being able to shoot your gun for a change. You will be the talk of the neighborhood when news gets around that you actually fired your pistol with your round of ammo. You may want to keep your round of ammo as an investment as prices are sure to keep rising. Just think of the confidence you will feel when you walk around with your round of ammo in your shirt pocket (Barney Fife was 50 years ahead of his time). Every man will want to be you and every woman will want to be with you when they learn that you possess a round of ammo. Your neighbor with the van Gogh painting will die of envy when he learns that you have obtained a genuine round of ammo. Playboy models will beat a path to your door when they hear the news! This is an opportunity which may never come around again. Act now and make your bid. Don’t let this one get away! Starting price is a ridiculously low one thousand two hundred and fifty dollars with NO RESERVE! Payment by money order only. Please add $5 for insured shipping within the Continental United States (additional charge to AK and HI). Sold as is, no returns. Please include a signed affidavit swearing that you did not vote for Barack Obama or your payment will be returned and the item will be relisted. Added: I have received requests to post a photo of the primer to prove it's actually present. I have added the photo. You can also see the round of ammo appears to be a military contract round with the primer sealed in place and the headstamp date 1985.


After reading all that I almost looked for a "buy it now" option.:what:

[Double Naught Spy]

I think you would get more action, but your bid increment is $25. A $5 increment would likely see the price driven steadily higher.

I am intrigued that you have made such an offering with all of those features. Do you believe it to be genuine military contract ammunition? If so, then it is a bargain, no doubt!

If you have any more of these gems, I suggest you don't sell them too quickly after this auction. Let the buzz on the internet gain some momentum and then release one round ever month or two. Maybe you could get a picture of your product alongside a read GI so as to give some additional patriotic inflection to what you are selling. Heck, maybe even offer a gracious 10% donation to the V.A. hospital for every round sold! I realize that might cut into your profits, but given that the round maybe cost you 6 cents in 1985 or maybe 20 cents last year, plus GB fees and P&H, you would still come out with enough profit to make the whole endeavor worthwhile, or come close. That way, everybody wins.

[Nugilum]

What percentage will Gunbroker expect for it's "cut of the action"? :confused:

[Aw4g63]

While I think it's funny, you have to understand that Gunbroker is a business. They have fee's to prevent people from listing things like this. I hope you get out of paying. Maybe see if you can cancel the auction?

[Cannonball888]

If they buyer doesn't pay and you file a nonpaying bidder complaint they'll drop the fee.

[Noxx]

On the flip side, if the buyer does pay, well, time to go gun shopping.

[45Badger]

Just imagine if it was .380 ;)

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it! Its right in line with the Jesus pancake that sold on ebay. People got wrapped up in the hype and started a bidding frenzy.

[SaxonPig]

The fee is around 3% I think or about $30-$35 at this point. I assume the high bidder plans to actually buy it. If he refuses to pay I have to file a non-payment complaint and he might have his account suspended.

The listing was meant to be humorous but bidding makes it a real auction. Maybe the guy is looking for his 15 minutes?

[Ed Ames]

You wanted to use gunbroker as part of your joke. You knew there could be fees associated. Maybe this should be a lesson to you.

If I was at GunBroker and someone filed a complaint over a refusal to pay $1300 for a single round of .45ACP I would be suspending the seller account...but that's just me.

[AirplaneDoc]

I got some WW1 dated ammo around somewhere, It must be really valuable. Still works too, I shot a couple of rounds off about 6 months ago.

Absolute madness keep us posted.

[Walkalong]

That's too funny. If someone wants to buy it, or if Saxon Pig wants to cancel it and pay the 3% thinking it was worth it for the humor, they have my blessing. Yep, insane, and as bad or worse on E Bay. Yep, too funny.

[Gunnerpalace]

Bravo Sir, that's awesome. :D

[TJ AK-74]

Please include a signed affidavit swearing that you did not vote for Barack Obama or your payment will be returned and the item will be relisted.
Very Funny :D:D:D
If the guy decides he doesn't want to pay for it, all he has to do is not sign the affidavit. If he does pay, then he must think it is worth that much just to brag:what: Also, if he pays, then you can buy a nice EBR :evil:

[Dark Skies]

"Just imagine if it was .380 "

I found a single round of .380 ACP at the back of my gun cabinet the other day. I'm seriously tempted ... :)

[divemedic]

If I was at GunBroker and someone filed a complaint over a refusal to pay $1300 for a single round of .45ACP I would be suspending the seller account...but that's just me.

Under the law, the buyer has entered into a binding contract. This is a valid contract, and as long as the product was not misrepresented, he has to pay the money. Buyer's remorse is not a valid reason for voiding a contract.

[SaxonPig]

Well, Ed, it IS just you. Bids are the responsibility of the bidder... not the seller.

I did list this as a humorous commentary on the current ammo crisis but if people start bidding that's their business. I will sell the item to the highest bidder.

[Ed Ames]

Divemedic...You are arguing against straw positions. I never said it wasn't a valid contract or that buyer's remorse was cause to void a contract. Follow along, I said "If I was at GunBroker and someone filed a complaint over a refusal to pay $1300 for a single round of .45ACP I would be suspending the seller account...but that's just me."

I don't know where you got that other stuff from. :rolleyes:

ETA: SaxonPig: Yes, it IS just me. I think I said that a bunch of posts ago. And again I don't know why you need to affirm that bids are the responsibility of the bidder...that was never in question.

Whether you will sell depends on whether the other party will buy. They won't pay and if you try to collect everyone along the way will laugh.

No-sale it, get your refund, and move on. I would suggest not turning your mutual attempt at levity into a cause for anger by posting negative feedback but, again, "that's just me." :)

[Jim Watson]

I note that you have three bids from three different bidders. What is the rule if the high bidder reneges? Is it a No Sale or does the next higher bidder get it?

[Dark Skies]

If it's like Ebay then I guess you can, if you want, make a second chance offer to the second highest bidder at his last bid.

[Nugilum]

As of 5/3/2009 @ 1837 zulu:

This auction has been viewed 3523 times

[Doggy Daddy]

If I was at GunBroker and someone filed a complaint over a refusal to pay $1300 for a single round of .45ACP I would be suspending the seller account

Why?

[catfish101]

This isn't much different then the "assault rock" that was sold on e-bay. If somebody wants to buy it then sell it. I have some 45-70 rounds from the late 1800's. What would that bring?

[Ed Ames]

Because gunbroker is a tool for selling, not a forum for jokes and grandstanding... Saxon deliberately misused it because he thought the misuse was free and now is upset because he might be on the hook for $30.

[Doggy Daddy]

Because gunbroker is a tool for selling, not a forum for jokes and grandstanding

Ah, but he has a standing bid on the item. So you would punish him for bringing in profit for Gunbroker?

[walker944]

Saxon: If the hi bidder actually pays, you should gift wrap it and offer to pay that $5 shipping & insurance!! :neener:

[SaxonPig]

I didn't think it was free. GB doesn't charge unless the item sells. If it sells the site will collect its fair fee. Also, I purchased the view counter and paid for a showcase listing figuring the item wouldn't sell and this way GB made $6 off me. But as of right now the item is sold and GB will collect its 3% (or whatever it is).

If the buyer backs out it's his fault not mine that I have to file a non-payment complaint. The auction may have been meant as a joke but bids are taken seriously. Once a bid was made it ceased being a joke and became a serious auction.

Please stop trying to blame me for people bidding too much. The bidders are adults and responsible for their own decisions.

[Ed Ames]

The context was that he's trying to figure out how to get out of the fee. That means he has not only wasted server resources (thousands of fits, etc) but employee time. Net loss to my business.

If he paid the fee I would have no issue.

ETA: I'm not blaming Saxon for people bidding. I'm saying, "you play with fire, you get burned."

[2TransAms]

Ah, but you left a way out.Please include a signed affidavit swearing that you did not vote for Barack Obama or your payment will be returned and the item will be relisted.

[2TransAms]

And how is SaxonPig trying to get off the hook? If it doesn't sell, no fees are incurred. If it does sell, I'd gladly pay my 3% and laugh all the way to the bank.

[Ed Ames]

AFAIK with GunBroker a seller can allow a buyer to cancel their bid before the auction closes. No harm no foul.

He's trying to get off the hook because he knows nobody is actually going to pay him and there is no way on earth to force payment. If he took it to court the case would be deemed "frivolous" in about 10 seconds. The $1350 doesn't exist, so there is no laughing. The $30 might exist.

[Lone_Gunman]

The problem I see is that the auction was meant as a joke, and I expect that the person who bid on it understood it was a joke, and because of that, thinks the bid he made was also a joke, and not serious.

So if he wins, and refuses to pay because he thinks it was just a gag auction, then he ends up with a bad feedback.

That doesn't seem fair really. The whole thing is not a serious auction. I do not think it is correct to sucker someone into making a bid on a gag auction, and then punish them for not paying.

I would either punish no one, or punish both the seller and the buyer.

[Doggy Daddy]

Gunbroker should pay SaxonPig for the exposure. This little vignette drew me to the site for maybe the 3rd time ever. ;)

[Dark Skies]

Ed Ames,
There are no set rules for the quantity of an item or its reserve price. All that is required is that the item exists, that it is accurately described and the seller holds legal title to it. If some silly sod comes along and bids on it at $X,000 then the fact that he's got himself a very poor deal or bid as a joke is neither here nor there - he is contractually obliged to pay in the eyes of the law.

This is a perfectly valid auction - the bidder backing out using the 'I thought it was a joke' excuse wouldn't wash. Otherwise everyone could avail themselves of that get out when buyer remorse sets in. If SaxonPig really wanted to enforce payment he could - and recoup any legal fees incurred.

This isn't Viet Nam dude, there are rules.

[Jim Watson]

Not just one person playing along with S.P.'s joke and expecting to wriggle off the hook. Repeat, there have been three successive bids from three different bidders, starting at $1250 up to $1325. That is a lot of idiots or jokers, but two of them have GB records for feedback, I cannot imagine what they think.

[Ed Ames]

It's lucky for the seller this isn't vietnam... those people have strict rules and no sense of humor.

There is a huge difference between "in theory" and "in practice".

In theory a contract is a contract, period.

In practice the terms of a contract have to be reasonable or judges will ignore them. $1325 for $0.35 worth of product is unlikely to be viewed as reasonable.

[Gun Slinger]

The gunbroker site rules stipulate rather clearly that all bids are binding and makes no allowance for bids made in "jest". In order to bid, one must be a member and agree to abide by the website's rules.

Saxon Pig established an auction (whether he expected to recieve a bid or not) and if he is willing to pay the fees that he has accrued (he appears willing to do so), then the bid, no matter how frivilous it may appear to be, constitutes the creation of a legal and binding contract. Looks like someone is out $1300.00 and change.

The only way this contract can be nullified is to have all three parties (Saxon Pig, the "buyer/bidder" and the contract services provider, aka Gunbroker.com ) agree mutually to "walk away" from the "agreement terms" and hold the other two parties "harmless". I doubt that "Gunbroker" will do this since they have a right to collect their fee since they stipulated no such exception to the appliance of "jocularity" upon their site.

I think that Saxon Pig ought to pay his fees and collect his payment. Nobody held a gun to the buyer's head and if he was determined enough to enter the bid then he should pay the bill that he incurred. Reminds me of the old adage: A fool and his money are soon parted.

As much as I was tempted to enter a bid for $2,500 for the sake of hilarity, I did not since that would obligate me to pay that price per the site agreement. Saxon Pig identified the item quite clearly and I was not about to pay that kind of money to "make a statement".

It's all fun and games 'til someone loses an eye...:D

ETA: This has me thinking. I have a box of 50 rounds of old military contract .45 in the safe right now. It should net me about $66,250 at the going price of $1325 per round. I am willing to let it go for $50,000 shipped. Any takers? :)

[Ed Ames]

It would be interesting to hear the result.

For the record: I agree in a way with GunSlinger. I think SP should pay his fee and ask for his money. I also happen to think it extremely unlikely he will see a dime of that money even if he tries to take it to court. A court is going to want to see a good faith effort to resolve the issue and I doubt "I asked for my $1325 and didn't get it" will fly.

[Phydeaux642]

A friend of mine does this on Ebay once in awhile. He will list something for fun and doesn't expect any bids. He does it for laughs and pays his incurred fees. No harm, no foul. Now if someone was dumb enough to bid, they should have to pay. It's not his fault that they are not using their heads.

[ants]

Saxon Pig rules!

[freonr22]

out of curiousity will you ship to ca? hahaha

[Kindrox]

Saxton's joke has one great big loophole - anyone who does not swear out an affidavit does not have to pay. So I don't think Saxton can stick a buyer with anything. Now will GB let the fee go over the affidavit issue? Probably not.

[Acera]

Here is the listing,

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128271630

[rocinante]

Funny stuff. I especially liked the Barney Fife jab.

[danprkr]

Personally I hope the bidder has to pay. Anyone that unintelligent deserves a lighter wallet. And, anyone that find someone that unintelligent deserves to get a new toy.

[John Wayne]

Maybe they are counting on the fact that you'll let them off the hook if they said they voted for Obama?

[DRYHUMOR]

Hmmmm...

I know I've got a genuine .45 round of Black Talon somewhere around around here.

I think I'll start it at $1000.00 :cool:

[Double Naught Spy]

Because gunbroker is a tool for selling, not a forum for jokes and grandstanding... Saxon deliberately misused it because he thought the misuse was free and now is upset because he might be on the hook for $30.

Gimme a freaking break. SaxonPig may have done this as a joke because he didn't really expect anyone to bid, but then again, his motivation is immaterial given that he is actually selling the single round of ammo.

There is NO misuse of the resource if the seller actually has the item for sale and will depart with the item under the terms of bidding. Nothing on Gunbroker says he can't have fun with his auctions.

[Double Naught Spy]

So far, more than 5000 views and the bidding is up to $1525 with 5 bids...and that is with 12 days left to go!

[MAURICE]

$2,525 with 6 bids now. 12 days and 2 hours left in the auction.

[Auburn1992]

I'm starting to think people are trying to scam now, especially with the $1000 increase.

[freakshow10mm]

Despite all the legal mumbo jumbo about bidding being a legal contract, it is not a legal contract. There is no way to force a buyer to pay.

[Walkalong]

I'm getting a big bucket, this is getting better all the time. :D

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x37/Walkalong/popcornbigbox.gif

[MAURICE]

I see you are in the rock. I might be interested in a FTF transaction. I want to see the round before I front the cash though.

[Mot45acp]

Major Taggage

[geronimo509]

now someone is just messing around with the seller.. its around 12,500$

I am with some of the people that think the seller should get paid. Just because it was supposed to be a joke doesn't mean that bidding is a joke.

However, I will bet anyone $12,500 that the seller will not get paid anywhere near 12,500.

[Auburn1992]

This is hilarious

[Auburn1992]

Lets make bets now as to what the highest bid will be.

I'm going to say $28,563.99

[jard]

In 25 dollar increments? your math must be different than mine.

[Lone_Gunman]

I am with some of the people that think the seller should get paid. Just because it was supposed to be a joke doesn't mean that bidding is a joke.

Yes, it does in my opinion.

[divemedic]

Despite all the legal mumbo jumbo about bidding being a legal contract, it is not a legal contract. There is no way to force a buyer to pay

Here is a good article that explains why you are wrong (http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abu/y203/m10/abu0105/s05), and I also will explain why you are right.

You are right in that you will have a time suing the winner who fails to perform, if you were inclined to do so, since the winner is likely in another state, and is unidentified due to the fact that he is using a screen name. Of course, if you REALLY wanted to go to the trouble, you could do so. (see RIAA and digital file sharing)

[Acera]

Please include a signed affidavit swearing that you did not vote for Barack Obama or your payment will be returned

So as far as the affidavit, he implies that you must send payment, by money order. Then he would return it, not saying how long or in what form. I guess he could cash it, and sit on it for a month.

Plus I am still interested in if Gunbroker has any humor in these instances or they will want their cut off the final selling price?

For the people who bid on it, I would not have from an account that had a high rating and feedback.

Currently $13,025.00 on 8 bids.

[Dark Skies]

freakshow10mm
"Despite all the legal mumbo jumbo about bidding being a legal contract, it is not a legal contract. There is no way to force a buyer to pay. "

Speaking with my lawyer hat on (L.L B Oxford University) I'm pretty sure contract law in the USA is pretty much four square with the UK as regarding auctions. Certainly Gunbroker give that impression:

"IMPORTANT: By auctioning an item, you are irrevocably (except as described below) and legally committing to accept the high bid for the item (or the highest-bidder who does not renege). If you receive one or more bids above the minimum price you stated you would be willing to accept and a reserve price is not specified, then you are legally obligated to complete the transaction. Your failure to complete the transaction is a breach of the User Agreement and may be legally actionable by one or more of the bidders."

It follows the reverse is true should a bidder renege. Just because a bid is ridiculously over the top does not make it any the less legally binding. The lines blur somewhat were it to transpire that the bidder is not legally entitled to purchase ammunition - say if he or she were a felon. Then the contract would be void - however, the seller could still press for damages. How practical that might prove depends on the finances of the bidder. If they're a bum or untraceable then you're pretty much scuppered.

[jakk280rem]

saxon, your thread was merged with the super duper ultra uber ammo shortage thread for some reason.

in that thread i said "some will probably buy it." i was only half serious.

[Acera]

you are irrevocably (except as described below) and legally committing to accept the high bid for the item

Yeah, I don't think the problem will be with the seller Barrister Dark Skies. Pretty sure he would let it go for that. (But understanding where you are from I could understand your misinterpreting the sides here, but normally .45 bullets go for a little less on this side of the pond:D )

Please try again on the buyers responsibility.:neener:

[Dark Skies]

Acera, I was still editing when you posted. I'm not a barrister - nor a practising solicitor (an attorney) I did a law degree after I left the police - my speciality being firearms law. Weirdly I am also a qualified motorcycle mechanic. I work in IT though. Strange paths and all that.

[Dave in PA]

funny stuff, it's over 15,000 dollars with 9 bids......

[freakshow10mm]

It follows the reverse is true should a bidder renege. Just because a bid is ridiculously over the top does not make it any the less legally binding. The lines blur somewhat were it to transpire that the bidder is not legally entitled to purchase ammunition - say if he or she were a felon. Then the contract would be void - however, the seller could still press for damages. How practical that might prove depends on the finances of the bidder. If they're a bum or untraceable then you're pretty much scuppered.
Again, they can use all the legal talk and crap that Ebay and other auction sites use but there is absolutely no compelling a seller to sell or a buyer to buy anything. Period. End of story.

[Acera]

Acera, I was still editing when you posted. I'm not a barrister - nor a practising solicitor (an attorney) I did a law degree after I left the police - my speciality being firearms law. Weirdly I am also a qualified motorcycle mechanic. I work in IT though. Strange paths and all that.

LOL, I saw your last paragraph once I got my post out.

Sorry for the confusion, just assumed that since you posted you had a law degree from Oxford, and you said you put on you lawyer hat I believed you were in fact a lawyer, or working in the field of law. No harm intended.

[Dark Skies]

"Your bid is a contract - Do not place a bid unless you are going to purchase the item. ... If you are the winning bidder, you will enter into a legally binding contract to purchase the item from the seller. "

freakshow10mm
"Again, they can use all the legal talk and crap that Ebay and other auction sites use but there is absolutely no compelling a seller to sell or a buyer to buy anything. Period. End of story."

Well perhaps you'd care to elaborate on how you come to believe that?

[Dark Skies]

Acera
"Sorry for the confusion, just assumed that since you posted you had a law degree from Oxford."

No worries - it's four in the morning here and I hit enter before I'd written the next bit - brain shutting down - need coffee. I hold a law degree and my dissertaion on Brit firearm law is in the libraries of both Houses of Parliament (hell, why not blow my own trumpet - even my tutors couldn't boast that). I just never much fancied actually working alongside practising lawyers - slimy lot! :)

[ishida]

I'M RICH, I'M RICH, I'M RICH I'M RICH I'M RICH!
I have 50 rounds ;)

seriously, $15k!?
If someoe pays that, I'm putting up my 50 rounds for $1000 so I can buy a rifle, and I bet I'll get more bids than you ;)

[Cpt. America]

I know who's byeing the drinks.

[SaxonPig]

I believe that the only punishment for non-payment is suspension of your account. I could sue, I guess, if the high bidder refuses to pay but I would not.

Frankly, I think the bidders are just being funny and I don't really expect to collect. They should know better, but maybe they do not. But this is a real auction and I will proceed under the assumption that the item is sold. If the high bidder refuses to pay then I will file a non-payment complaint with Gun Broker for refund of the selling fee (about $400 at this point) which I will be charged upon closing of the auction.

Has anyone considered the possibility that the bids are genuine and the bidders fully intend to purchase the item? Recall the potato chip in the shape of Illinois (or whatever) that sold for thousands of dollars on ebay? People with money do funny things, sometimes.

[Dark Skies]

Heh. Sounds like a bad case of testosterone bidding going on.

SaxonPig - are you quietly excited that some eccentrics may actually be deadly serious?

[Jim Watson]

Nine bids, seven bidders. I really doubt the "winner" will pay up, but he is sure setting himself up for some major negative feedback, isn't he?

[Quoheleth]

If you're not going to hold us responsible, you want us to hit this thing and see how high it goes?

:evil:

Q

[Animal Mother]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the bids are genuine and the bidders fully intend to purchase the item?

I wouldn't get your hopes up SP.

[Gun Slinger]

Saxon Pig,

Although I enjoy a good joke as much as the next guy, I've just gotta ask.....

With the bidding heading just north of $15,000 right now, you are conceivably "on the hook" for $500+ in "fees" to GB. (They do have your CC information, do they not?)

The improbable, although not impossible, chance that these bidders are "for real" and will pay aside, does it concern you that GB may very well try to press you for the payment of their fees? Also, was this really worth it?

I should note, that these are serious questions as I am simply curious as to what your thinking is in regard to where you find yourself at this time.

:)

[SaxonPig]

When the first bid was placed this became a real auction.

I would love for it to turn out to be some rich guy who just likes to do weird things.

I know the odds are it's just some people who don't realize making bids is taken seriously but at this point I owe selling fees so I either get paid or turn him over to GB for suspension.

[FMF]

I'm local, Saxon, if you get paid (since the bidding is, as of now, up to a little over $1million) please PM me and we'll go to the range with whatever you plan on buying :D

[paintballdude902]

hahahahahahahhaha

1,023,490.00

gb is gonna be like "oh crap we need this guy more ofton"


gimmi a call some time since i cant afford ammo at this rate we can meet up and show each other our guns

you goota pay for my ticket big spender

if they dont pay then you mmay owe gb 300k

[Acera]

Seems like someone with a good rating (p***. A+(19) or s***3 A+(52) ), and a number of legitimate transactions is going to have to restart their feedback process under a new name.

You stared it as a joke SaxonPig, you ought to not press for negative action against those who played along with you.


The selling fees, well you started the game................ they ought to negotiate it down to a reasonable settlement with you. LOL

[paintballdude902]

id just call gb and tell them what happened and that you need to cancel it

they may be pissy but its the best option

[N003k]

Considering he'd owe Gunbroker $30,000** if it had stopped at 1million, and will undoubtedly owe far more. Then I think it'd be a good idea to get it voided if the top bidder doesn't pay out rather then just shrug and pay the fee.

**If the fee is 3% of the sale price.

[2RCO]

I really don't think Saxon is at fault on this. I wouldn't be totally overwhelmed if someplace like Golden Palace didn't pick this up as a national news publicity stunt. I hope he gets the cash and parties down with it.

The bidder is the one engaging in fraud not Saxon.

[meef]

Okay.

I was interested in placing a bid until it went over $1,000,000.00.

I mean, you've got to draw the line somewhere. Right?

Hey, with Obama's economic stimulants being spread around like pasture manure the price might not be all that out of line before too long.

:cool:

[Acera]

Well from what I understand about Gunbroker, the selling fee hits you C-Card when the auction ends. It then takes up to a month for the money to be credited back if there is a reason. $30K is a lot to be floating on a card for me.

I would be on the phone tomorrow ASAP getting this thing brought down and buried before any financial crisis occurred with my credit.

JMHO.

[ants]

If so, Saxon Pig better hope the winning bidder doesn't live in Arkansas.

[Gun Slinger]

Saxon Pig,

Thanks for the answers, I appreciate it. :)

I agree with Acera. I'd be on the phone to GB first thing tomorrow morning getting things ironed out. I suspect that GB will be none to thrilled with how this has gone and imagine that there will several accounts suspended before too long.

It was pretty funny though. :)

[SaxonPig]

It's obviously a couple of guys who think phony bids are funny. A funny auction may or may not be a good idea but phony bidding is wrong. The listing was made in jest but the first bid made it a real auction.

I have already contacted tech support and brought this to their attention. I suspect the auction will disappear.

[SHusky57]

wouldn't the bidder be contractually responsible for what they are bidding on? I don't see how this could come back on you Saxon.... and $30k isn't much if you get $1M.

The burden is on the bidder.... right?

[dirtdog13]

I would think GB would be happy, even if they don't get a dime out of this auction directly, look at how many extra people are visiting there site because of it. They could end up making alot of extra money because of the free advertising there getting.

[paintballdude902]

saxon good man



i still got a kick out it till it reached 1mil then it was kinda dang ummm this is kinda serious

[Old Fuff]

SaxonPig:

I think your are about to become famous - the living symbol of outrage over ammunition shortages and excelerated prices.

Thing is, I'm not sure if it's good or bad. :uhoh: ;)

[Gun Slinger]

Ah, $1,345,915.09 now.

[Cpt. America]

Holy crap. I can't believe it got this high.

[shiftyer1]

Even though it's very humorous, this comes off to me as a scam looking for idiots. You found some, now finish the transaction and HOPE they learn a lesson. WHO WOULD BID ON THAT?????????????

[paintballdude902]

shiftyer i woulda if the starting bid was like a buck and only went up a buck each time if it was 5 bucks who cares id just do it for a joke and id be willing to pay 5 bucks for it

[230RN]

Well, when all is said and done, at least you'll have a good Guiness Book of World Records entry. :D

And you can win bets at the bar by claiming you once owned the world's most valuable .45 ACP round --then when the bets are down, haul out the GBoWR.

Terry, 230RN

[Acera]

SaxonPig wrote:
It's obviously a couple of guys who think phony bids are funny. A funny auction may or may not be a good idea but phony bidding is wrong. The listing was made in jest but the first bid made it a real auction.

So now that you got your self in a crack, it's not funny anymore we are all serious now?? Those guys that bid are as much a part of this joke as you are. Unfortunately getting money from you, your credit card on file there for the fees, is going to be a lot easier than you getting money from them.

Best thing for you is for this thing to disappear and no one gets financially dinged.

Trying to make the bidders look like bad guys, when you took a legitimate business system and tried to use it for your own personal joke is not sitting real well with me.

Gunbroker may have a beef with all parties involved, but they have a way to collect from only one.

Good Luck, I hope you all come out well.

Please keep us posted, especially if this goes south. I am interested to see how much of a PIA Gunbroker is going to be.

[Hostile Amish]

All I can say is... Don't piss off Gunbroker.

[Targettarget]

This is awesome.

[Sport45]

Considering he'd owe Gunbroker $30,000** if it had stopped at 1million, and will undoubtedly owe far more. Then I think it'd be a good idea to get it voided if the top bidder doesn't pay out rather then just shrug and pay the fee.

**If the fee is 3% of the sale price.

It's not quite that bad. The fee is 1.25% of everything over $1000 so a bit more that $12,500 for the first $1,000,000 the bullet sells for.

It looks like the seller does have the ability to release bidders, but I don't know if GB will buy it when the same bidder makes multiple high bids. It would be hard to pass that off as an accident.


From Gunbroker:
Can I retract my bid?
(last updated on 5/31/2005 2:03:42 PM)

No. Our User Agreement is extremely clear that bids are non-cancelable once placed. We are also clear about this in our auction information and on the very screen where you placed your bid. Bids are not to be placed lightly - you must make sure that you have resolved any questions or issues with the seller before your bid is placed. You can use 'Ask Seller a Question' located on the item's detailed listing page to contact the seller.

If you have bid on something and you wish to be let out of your bid, you must work this out with the seller of the item. Contact the seller using 'Ask Seller a Question' located on the item listing page. If the seller is willing to release you from your bid, the seller must contact us and request that we remove the bid from the database. We cannot force the seller to release you from your bid if he refuses.

Why won't GunBroker.com remove the bid without the seller's permission? The answer is simple - the User Agreement states that bids are binding once placed. If we were to fail to follow the terms of the User Agreement, we would show a major lack of integrity. We would also open ourselves up to a potential legal liability.

If this policy causes a problem for you and you are irritated at GunBroker.com, we are sorry that you feel that way. However, you explicitly agreed to be bound by the terms of the User Agreement by registering to use our site and by placing a bid. Just like any other binding legal contract, if you did not read or understand the agreement that is no one's fault but your own.

We do not hide our policies - we openly display them for all to see and we do everything we can to get you to read them.

If you don't want negative feedback over the transaction, buy the item and then resell it here. If you bought it, chances are that someone else will buy it from you. You may even make money on the transaction.

In the event you made a mistake or typo while bidding and bid $40,000 instead of $400 you need to contact the seller and tell him to contact us via the Help Center. Only the seller can ask for a bid to be removed in an emergency situation.

[Oyeboten]

Always reserve the right to end an Auction at any time, since the item is also 'for sale locally...'

[Dark Skies]

I think SaxonPig should ride with it and see where it leads. I'm curious as to the bidders' purpose. They might actually be genuine eccentrics for whom this might be a publicity stunt for their own ends. Imagine how hard SaxonPig would kick himself if they were genuine. And if, as we suspect, it's a prank then there's nothing lost when they don't cough up. The fees aren't owed if the winner(s) defaults. To all intents and purposes this is a valid auction.

[DRYHUMOR]

Holy crap Batman!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128271630

That gonna be one heckava bill.

However if it is a rich eccentric, and/or a genuine buyer- SaxonPig; enjoy your retirement.

[Dark Skies]

Time left 11 Days, 17 Hours +

At this rate SaxonPig will be richer than Bill Gates. :)

[woad_yurt]

Wow. Whatever happens, I'm hooked. I gotta see how this pans out. Now it's up to $50,000,025.00!

Note: This is the first thread to which I've ever subscribed, it's that good.

[22LRFan]

I think I would maybe cancel my credit card so that GB would not have an active card/account to charge. 1.25% or 3% of $50M+ is a little more than I would want to be responsible for. I wouldn't want to see your credit score or something get messed up and hurt you later on.

Oh and this still REALLY funny! It kind of got serious around the one million dollar mark, and then it got funny again.

[RyanM]

I think I would maybe cancel my credit card so that GB would not have an active card/account to charge. 1.25% or 3% of $50M+ is a little more than I would want to be responsible for. I wouldn't want to see your credit score or something get messed up and hurt you later on.

I don't think you have to pay Gunbroker anything if the buyer backs out of the deal.

[Feanaro]

I don't think you have to pay Gunbroker anything if the buyer backs out of the deal.

If they auto deduct the fee though... Saxon is going to be in deep trouble. Current bid is $50,000,025.00. The Killing Joke anyone?

Doubt it will get that far though.

[geronimo509]

100 million dollars by 7:50 am eastern time

[divemedic]

You now have accounts receivable of over $100million. You are now 'too big to fail.' Apply far bailout money. (You have more sales than Chrysler)

[Cpt. America]

Get'r done

[06]

Ever read the short story--Showdown at Coffin Rock ??
The sequel is just as good-Sunrise at Coffin Rock.
You can google them to find them. If I find them again will post a link. wc
Found it: Just below it is the other story-good read, wc
http://www.minionreport.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20737&highlight=coffin+rock

[Cohibra45]

I think exactly like that of Acera........

SaxonPig started this frivolity and then got serious???? What's that all about???:fire:

If it started as a joke, then it should end as a joke!!! SaxonPig should have his account thrown out for posting a frivolous auction!!!:cuss:

If I were GB, that is exactly what I would do........however, I'm not GB, so we will have to see where this all leads.

Just maybe, SP will get his PP whacked and only have to pay the initial bid posting %.:o





The unfortunate part is we will likely never know what happens......This will all be done privately between SP and GB. I just hope that SP learns a valuable lesson!!!

[Lightninstrike]

Holy screaming eagle sxxx. Over 100 million now. :eek:

[CoRoMo]

Now that you are a veritable bank. Can I take out a loan to buy some ammo at Wal Mart?:p

[blkbrd666]

I would have thought this would be on CNN this morning.

[Enginetech88]

Im hoping saxon pig comes out on top of this one. This is unreal! Good luck buddy.

[c5_nc]

No way its going to be paid of course. High bigger does not have to complete the transaction if they can't provide the affidavit. Seller account will be billed the amount but I'm sure gunbroker will wipe it out, not sure how happy they will be the joke, would not be surprised if they didn't ban the account.

[Targettarget]

Some of you are insanely serious about this. I don't understand what the problem is.

It's a "legitimate" auction and if the buyer doesn't pay, it's his ass, not the sellers.

[geronimo509]

It's a "legitimate" auction and if the buyer doesn't pay, it's his ass, not the sellers.

Exactly! Good luck man

I wonder if that is a record for GB? highest bid ever?

[Lone_Gunman]

It is interesting that it started off as a joke, but as soon as someone posted a bid, the seller gets all serious and expects to be paid.

I think Gunbroker should ban whoever originally posted the auction.

[Quarterbore]

Don't they charge the fees and then you need to protest the non-payment and then you get the money back in a month or two... that was how it worked for me when I had a non-paying buyer...

Fees on that kinda money is more then I want to imagine! :what:

[Acera]

It also funny to me how many people think he will, or hope he gets paid. Get serious people.

I really doubt that once it went out of the realm of a small claims court case that there even a remote chance of payment in full.

Rich eccentric guy bidding, or force the bidder to pay up, LOL. Some live in a fantasy world regarding this. You have better luck with a lotto ticket.

Whether or not there is financial punishment for the joke, I am sure someone is sweating it out.

[jerkface11]

Don't you need a slip of paper from the ATF for that volume of ammo sales? Seriously though end the auction early and say you sold it locally.

[ants]

When the bid went over a Hundred Million dollars, I suddenly figured out who's bidding.

It's US Congress. They're the only ones stupid enough, and they got the money.

[John E.]

Like Targettarget said, some here are taking this waaaay too seriously...

ants, yep, the FedGov is backdoor banning guns by buying up all the ammo, no matter how much it costs them to do it!

[ants]

Don't forget Saxon Pig's first post on this thread: a commentary on the current madness with ammo prices.

Bravo, dude. Awesome exercise of First Amendment right to express your opinion. And what's the worst that can happen? A negative feedback? Lock your account? Small price to pay for free speech.

Gunbroker is not run by idiots. They know a commentary when they see it. Saxon Pig won't get hurt.

Like John E. says, let's lighten up. Let's have fun with it.

[Floppy_D]

This is awesome. So, Saxon Pig, let's talk about feelings. You nervous? Excited? Plans for a book deal?

[Quoheleth]

they [Congress] got the money

No, they dont. The Chinese have all the money. We're only borrowing it, at the rate of something like $12 mil a day in interest.

Lots of assumptions going on...will GB make the bidder pay...will GB hit SPig's CC for the fees...will accounts be suspended...will it be allowed to walk away with a chuckle.

Who knows?

What I seriously hope doesn't happen is some kid got on his dad's GB account and started running the bid "for" his Dad. Can you imagine that bill??? And the whipping???

Now to the important questions...
Has anyone contacted:
- the Guiness book of records people?
- Bill O'Reilley
- the NRA (they could milk this thing for a lot of PR about "fear factor")
- Sean Hannity
- Rush Limbaugh
- the View (just to get their whoosies & whatsies in a bunch)

Q

edit: I just looked at the GB auction. When I first saw the page, the price was $100 mil. I checked the bid history, then went back to the auction page and the price jumped to $134 mil and change!!!

one more edit: I thought - for the time span of two heartbeats - of throwing down a bid to make it an even $135 mil bid. Then, in the next heartbeat, I realized that with my luck, that would be the precise moment that the madness would end, SaxonPig would stop the auction, or GB would say "that's it" and I would get stuck holding the bag. I will keep my computer mouse FAR, FAR away from the "BID" box, just to make sure I am not tempting lest even the fail-safe "bid confirmation" somehow be circumvented by my "luck."

[divemedic]

Think of the sales tax!

[gvnwst]

Hey saxonpig, you gonna spread the wealth? :D:D:p Or donate it all to the NRA.....they would love that.


Don't you need a slip of paper from the ATF for that volume of ammo sales? Seriously though end the auction early and say you sold it locally.


I think because it is only 1 round....no. (could be wrong)

[mcdonl]

I just blew the whistle... Saxon... if my whistle blowing causes some whacked out eccentric to buy your round for $150,000,000.00 can I get a couple boxes of .40's? (Street price is fine....::)

[SaxonPig]

Acera & Cohibra45- You miss the point. I did nothing that violated GB rules. I started a legitimate auction with a very high starting price. So high I assumed nobody would bid. But somebody did. And then others joined in. I did nothing wrong but the bidders did unless they intended to pay should they win the auction. When the first bid was placed THAT made it a real auction and THEY have violated the rules by placing bids they don't intend to pay. At least I assume I will not be getting a check for 134 million dollars...

If I do, the beer's on me.

[Lone_Gunman]

Saxon, actually I think there is a law against misrepresenting a product like you have done. You have committed fraud, and if your product actually sells, then theft through misrepresentation.

[kd7nqb]

When the bidding was in the thousands I was like wow SP is going to get a nice windfall.

When the bidding was in the 10k range I was like WOW

When the bidding was in the 100k range I was getting suspicious

Now that we are talking 100MILLION I am willing to bet that GunBroker is holding a meeting saying uuhhhh lets think of a way to market the crap out of this.

[Quoheleth]

Other than gross hyperbole about the neighbor with the van Gough and the Playboy model, I don't know that there is untruth in what he wrote as the seller's description:

Offered for your consideration is one round (not one case or one box but one single round) of genuine .45 ACP ammunition. This is something rarely seen (at least since November 4th) and is hard to find at any price. The round of ammo includes a real brass casing; one full metal jacket bullet weighing 230 grains; a generous amount of hard-to-obtain gunpowder; and one nearly impossible to locate primer. Yes, you read that correctly. This round of ammo actually comes fully equipped with a real primer! Just try finding one of those! Imagine the thrill of actually being able to shoot your gun for a change. You will be the talk of the neighborhood when news gets around that you actually fired your pistol with your round of ammo. You may want to keep your round of ammo as an investment as prices are sure to keep rising. Just think of the confidence you will feel when you walk around with your round of ammo in your shirt pocket (Barney Fife was 50 years ahead of his time). Every man will want to be you and every woman will want to be with you when they learn that you possess a round of ammo. Your neighbor with the van Gogh painting will die of envy when he learns that you have obtained a genuine round of ammo. Playboy models will beat a path to your door when they hear the news! This is an opportunity which may never come around again. Act now and make your bid. Don’t let this one get away! Starting price is a ridiculously low one thousand two hundred and fifty dollars with NO RESERVE! Payment by money order only. Please add $5 for insured shipping within the Continental United States (additional charge to AK and HI). Sold as is, no returns. Please include a signed affidavit swearing that you did not vote for Barack Obama or your payment will be returned and the item will be relisted. Added: I have received requests to post a photo of the primer to prove it's actually present. I have added the photo. You can also see the round of ammo appears to be a military contract round with the primer sealed in place and the headstamp date 1985.

It seems to me to be a classic case of creative writing, aka "advertising." Have you watched any info-mercials lately? They all promise the moon, but rarely deliver. To my knowledge, most (I will not say "all") dodge prosecution for failure to deliver as promised. It's caveat emptor to the nth degree.

[CAVHOOAH]

Not a bit of misrepresentation in his auction...NONE at all.

This is funny, but I wouldnt expect to be paid....perhaps you would have a better chance if you offered to give all proceeds to helping new shooters get a NRA membership ?

That would also be very responsible and commendable....can we say "news worthy" !

[blkbrd666]

Ahhh, Saxon, to be a multimillionaire, on paper, for 11 days. May I suggest a new hat at the very least...

http://www.berkeleyhat.com/captainshat.html

[hoohaa310]

Saxon, actually I think there is a law against misrepresenting a product like you have done. You have committed fraud, and if your product actually sells, then theft through misrepresentation.


How did he misrepresent the product? It very clearly states that it is ONE round of ammunition (not a box, not a case, but one round).


That seems pretty clear to me......

[Lone_Gunman]

How did he misrepresent the product?

He claims that Playboy models will come running, that people with Van Gogh's will be jealous, that every man will want to be him, and that every owner will want to be with him.

[Acera]

SaxonPig

If I do, the beer's on me.

You only hope was when, it was still relatively low and there was a chance you could legitimately sue for the money and the bidder would pay you a portion instead of getting a lawyer. No lawyer will take your case without you paying him up front.

Comments like the one you made make me think you actually believe in this little fantasy of yours.

At least you can tell your friends you were "owed" $100 plus million at one time. LOL.

Fortunately with the size of the auction, you will probably be let off the hook.

It continues to amaze me how many people post like there is a chance of that money, or some of it coming your way, even when it was under $10,000. Now you will be lucky if you keep your account and don't have to pay anything.

You tried to make a political statement, and used Gunbroker's resources to do so, they are the only entity out anything. They should get some compensation for their trouble.

The bidders that took it to such a high level are not at fault, they probably saved you a large hassle. You will probably not get dinged for the commission that you would have to fight to get back if it had stayed in the thousands of dollars range.


Currently at: $134,594,115.90

Estimated Fee SaxonPig owes Gunbroker upon end of auction: $1,682,463.93

[hankdatank1362]

Well, apparently there are people out there that believe that one round of .45ACP is worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

Thereby, mathematically, the cartridge=$100,000,000+. The two are interchangable, just like having a nice flatscreen HDTV is just about the same as having $1500 or so. Same value ascribed to both, just expressed differently.

Thusly, SaxonPig's single round of .45ACP, that others believe is worth $100,000,000 is really worth that, making Saxon a theoretical multimillionaire. Something is worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for it, whether that price be ridiculously low or incredulously high.

Since whoever is in ownership of said cartridge is a theoretical multimillionaire, I think that would inspire enough jealousy to make this:
Playboy models will come running, that people with Van Gogh's will be jealous, that every man will want to be him, and that every owner will want to be with him.
come true.

Granted, I know it's a joke, that's why I kept saying "theoretical" multimillionaire.

[Fred West]

This is awesome. So, Saxon Pig, let's talk about feelings. You nervous? Excited? Plans for a book deal?


Maybe even a film, who knows. Can I be in it?

[mcdonl]

For an instant, I thought that perhaps he gave the impression that ammo was a rare commodity.. yeah, we all know that there is an ammo crunch, but I was thinking that this could cause someone to think it was very rare... but... If you are bidding on something it is the bidders responsibility to know the truth.

Saxon... I truley hope that a fool and his money will soon be parted and that you will have a lot more then you have today...

I will also warn you that the next time I have to do fund raising for one of my kids events I will send you an email if you win this auction!!

Leroy

[hankdatank1362]

Plus, so many people are forgetting that any bidders entering a bid are entering into a legally binding contractual obligation and agreement, whether or not they thought it would be funny.

Granted, the original item for sale was placed in jest, but that doesn't mean that you can bid on it and not intend to pay. That's a violation of a contractual agreement.

Using some poeple's logic here, I can stop paying my mortgage because I thought the bank was kidding when they printed up all that paperwork for me to sign. I know I was joking when I told them I'd pay. I shouldn't have to pay.

[Cohibra45]

SaxonPig,

I really hope you are in contact with GB about your 'hoax'. You said that this started out to be a joke, but after the first bid you got serious!!!

I hope GB doesn't get serious about your auction and decide to charge your credit card with the 1.25% sellers fee. It is their right to do so legally and if they do, right now you would owe them $16,824,264.49:what:!!!

Not sure if your ready for that one, but hope you have plenty of KY cream!!!:evil:


Some here think that the only people that are obligated are the bidders...........not so. SaxonPig is also legally obligated to giving GB their sellers fee which I mentioned above. This is BEFORE any money exchanges hands on SP and the winning bidder!!!!!! That is what I call a legally binding contractual obligation!!!

[Lone_Gunman]

I would hope that Saxon Pig withdraws this auction before it closes.

He has committed fraud, and potentially theft through contractual misrepresentation... now a big credit card charge too boot. At best, a ban from Gunbroker would seem appropriate, and at worst, a felony conviction.

If the auction has not already ended, can't it be stopped early and cancelled?
That would seem to be in the best interest of everyone.

I never meant for anyone to actually buy it at that price but GB will want the selling fee.

I think that statement alone would cause you to lose any court case that may come of this joke.

[jerkface11]

He didn't commit fraud. Anyone placing a bid without the intention of paying did though.

[Dark Skies]

I really don't get the anti-SaxonPig posters. Nothing he did was fraud - there was no misrepresentation. The actual goods for auction were very clearly stated and the references to models etc was no more than the fluff you see in TV adverts every day that no-one seriously believes if they have more than two brain cells to squeeze together.

To all intents and purposes it is a perfectly valid auction. Yes, it is contractually binding but somehow I think the bidders are going to skip town or play the I voted for Obama card. Interestingly though - if they play the Obama card it means they made a bid in the full knowledge that they intended to renage which would also place them in further stook. I wouldn't worry about GB taking X % off SaxonPig's card. They can't go over his agreed limit with the credit card company regardless of how much the fee will eventually be. And as the bidder is likely to default he'll not be obliged to pay / will have it refunded in the end.

Some people need to lighten up.

[SaxonPig]

I have not committed any fraud. I accurately described the item and I fully intended to deliver it should someone buy it. I have done absolutely NOTHING illegal or against the auction site rules.

As for expecting payment, when it was at $1,500 I thought maybe some eccentric guy with money might actually buy it for the notoriety, but after it went higher that obviously wasn't the case. It's people who think it's funny to jack the bids. THEIR actions are fraudelent and in violation of Gun Broker rules, not mine.

I CAN'T CANCEL THE AUCTION WITHOUT PAYING THE FEES. YOU CAN'T CANCEL AN AUCTION ONCE A BID IS PLACED. THIS IS WHAT SOME OF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. IT'S THE BIDDERS WHO SCREWED THIS UP, NOT ME.

I have emailed GB asking they take action. I suspect they will yank the auction. They should suspend all the bidders for violating the rules. I did not violate any rules.

I will relist the item with a one cent starting price.

[Cohibra45]

But I listed a single round of 45 ACP ammo on Gun Broker with a starting price of $1,250 as a joke and commentary on the current madness with ammo prices and it has now drawn three bids. Current price is $1,325.

I never meant for anyone to actually buy it at that price but GB will want the selling fee.

That my friend is fraud!!!

I quote..........."But I listed a single round of 45 ACP ammo on Gun Broker with a starting price of $1,250 as a joke" "I never meant for anyone to actually buy it at that price"

Therein lies the fraud portion!!!;) Especially since all GB has to do is subpoena this site for all posts by SP. Courts have a ruling about the use of email and this forum is 'public' purview!!

[SaxonPig]

I just looked at the auction and as I watched bids were removed one by one down to the starting price. The auction is still there but the bids... and maybe the bidders... are gone.

By the way, this auction is in newspapers and Web sites all over the place. GB should pay me for all the advertising they are getting.

[jerkface11]

No it would be fraud if he hadn't intended to ship it. He just didn't expect anyone to buy it. The last time I checked pessimism isn't fraud.

[Walkalong]

I did nothing that violated GB rules. I started a legitimate auction with a very high starting price. So high I assumed nobody would bid.
Agreed.

I assume I will not be getting a check for 134 million dollars...I'm pretty sure that is a safe bet.

[Dark Skies]

"I quote..........."But I listed a single round of 45 ACP ammo on Gun Broker with a starting price of $1,250 as a joke" "I never meant for anyone to actually buy it at that price"

That isn't fraud - because SaxonPig would have honoured his end of the bargain if someone did pay. Fraud would have been if he didn't actually have that round to sell. Furthermore one could just as easily substitute 'intend' with 'expect'. There's no fraud in putting up outrageous prices that you don't expect anyone in their right mind to pay but then find someone WILL actually contemplate doing so.

[AlPackin]

The auction is now closed
Wow, 26,244 views :what:

[Acera]

I never meant for anyone to actually buy it at that price


I have not committed any fraud.


That is not wrong?? You stated you placed an auction out there you never intended to have any one bid on.

I would think that any one wasting band width and resources of Gunbroker for a joke is not entirely clean in this muck.

Please don't try to get out of some of the blame here, you tried to be funny and it was/still is.

This is not a personal attack, I have enjoyed reading about how so many people are taking getting the money seriously. I have some concerns with the way you have handled the joke since it started to evolve over the past evening.


edit: Cohibra45 and a lot of us posting at the same time, lol.

[6_gunner]

Well, I for one am glad that SaxonPig is apparently not facing any penalties for this.

He represented the product accurately. If people were bidding without the intent to pay, then that was their fault. If anyone was committing fraud, it was the bidders.

[22LRFan]

That fraud stuff would not hold up. It's like a Sham-WOW commercial...in the end it's just a towel. If the buyer was as creative as SaxonPig's description than he could easily get the fly honies coming his way. Although I think it would work for a girl to attrach guys as well. How is it any different than the Llama saying they produce(d) quality friearms?

For the anti-SaxonPig people this is a free market. If one is willing to pay money for something and can reach an agreed-upon price with the seller, then the item is sold. SaxonPig felt that he could not let the round go for less than $1,250. I find that a bit steep, but hey that's why I didn't bid. I have a Yugo SKS for sale for $325. I don't expect anyone to buy it, but I'll sell it for that.

By the way this is still REALLY funny!

[possom813]

Bidding is now closed according to GB

[22LRFan]

Oh and I still don't believe you have that primer. ;)

[yeti]

Oh and I still don't believe you have that primer.


His picture clearly showed a pristine primer in place.

I think he just realized he could make more money parting that round out, than he was going to get selling the complete round. That primer alone gotta be worth half a billion.

[blkbrd666]

Saxon,

Let us know when you put "The Bullet" back up. You should get some good bids if you advertise it as "...once valued at over 100 million dollars!". :)

[Walkalong]

I think he just realized he could make more money parting that round outYea, what was he thinking? :)

[DRYHUMOR]

I still think that round of Black Talon I have is worth more, especially since I saw what a plain ole FMJ can go for. :D

[Targettarget]

Can somebody confirm that the final price was over $5 Billion. Did anyone get a screen snap shot of that? If so, please post it.

[SaxonPig]

Those accusing me of fraud do not know the meaning of the word. I didn't lie or mislead or promise anything I didn't plan to deliver. I listed an auction with a starting price higher than I thought the item was actually worth. Hell, half the auctions on gun Broker fit that description.

I did nothing wrong. If you don't like what I did that's too bad. I did nothing illegal or in violation of GB rules. They canceled the auction due to the actions of the bidders and advised me to relist it. THEY ADVISED ME TO RELIST IT.

I did.

128429217

[Targettarget]

Good for you. Man, the last thing I'd get bent out of shape about is generic people thinking your committing fraud.

Gimme a break, honestly.

[blkbrd666]

Yeah, most of the complaining was probably people beating themselves up for not having thought of it first...or just plain "don't got no sense of humor". I know a guy who has to find something wrong with everything you do...I would hate to be in that kind of sour mood all the time.

[Lone_Gunman]

What are you trying to accomplish by relisting it?

Do you expect anyone to bid on it?

If so, why?

[SaxonPig]

I think it will sell.

[NobleSniper]

I have some GI 45 ammo that hit normandy on d-day...........that ought to be owrth a chunk of change shouldn't it???? :D

[ants]

It's up to ONE CENT now.




For all those who thought Gunbroker would nail Saxon Pig and take away his account: :neener:

[Walkalong]

This is awesome. It will be interesting to see what happens.

One whole round of.45 ACP (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128429217)

"Sorry, I cannot "piece out" this item" - Just awesome.

[average_shooter]

Wow... 5 bids and already up to $8.25...

[gvnwst]

These guys must just want the .45 shell that is worth 5 billion or something, really bad. You watch it, it will go over $100, and i would not be suprised if the winner actually paid up...

[ridata]

By the way, this auction is in newspapers and Web sites all over the place. GB should pay me for all the advertising they are getting.

What you really should do is write up a web page on this whole thing, detailing the ammunition, maybe write a bunch about how it all turned out ... and then place a number of Google AdSense ads on that page. Then post a link to that page on the gunbroker auction. With the 26,244 views on the last auction, you'd probably get a bunch of views on the web page.

I'm serious. I'll host it.

[geronimo509]

I love you SaxonPig!;)

You BETTER get paid this time!

[Doggy Daddy]

I love you SaxonPig!

Gold digger! :neener:

[DRYHUMOR]

Gold digger... LOL :D

[Wyo_F-A]

If I win I am gonna put it in a display case above my reloading press.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Fools and their moneymay be parted, but some of these fools on GB will now be parted from bidding on that auction site. Saxon Pig, I think you had a great idea, and it raised social consciousness. If you ALSO sell you cartridge, more power to you!

[Lightninstrike]

Good job SP. This is great and a good message to. Hope Fox picks it up.

[paintballdude902]

if i buy it do i get a cirtificate of authenticity?

[possom813]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128429217

Up to 11 bucks

[paintballdude902]

was this thing actually on the news/ in the paper?

[Gunnerpalace]

Did anyone get a screen snap shot of that?

I got one when it was at 134 million, you can see it here (http://chaostheoryfilms.blogspot.com/2009/05/45-acp-bullet-update.html).

[SaxonPig]

Letter of authenticity is a great idea.

Thanks.

[DoubleAction]

How can such silly thread get so many responses ?

Oh, I see now.:)

[fireman 9731]

I wish I was that lucky....

SaxonPig- if I were you, I would go buy some lotto tickets!

[PT1911]

up to 21 bucks... that is hilarious.. I will have to keep up with how this turns out...

[jacob.elliott]

i have about 600 rounds of misc. calibers maybe i should sell them all one at a time lol

[geronimo509]

By the way... I am a straight man. lol

I don't want anything from Saxon. So not a gold digger lol

I guess you would have to know me to understand. My girlfriend laughed so much when she saw what I wrote.

[ShadyScott999]

This is great!

[longdayjake]

ha now I can say I have the highest bid. $50 and you can beat me. I fully intend to buy it if I win but I am guessing that it will go up past what I can pay.

[U.S.SFC_RET]

There is a child in everyone of us. The Internet is going to change it's bidding laws because of this. :evil:

[Gun Slinger]

Heh, forty-six bucks now. I sure hope that its worth it. :)

[Poper]

SaxonPig:
Just a suggestion, but can you include a snapshot of the original auction at $5 Billion+ and include it with your letter of authenticity? It might also be helpful if you could get GB's authentication of the bid snapshot.

At this rate, it could go well over a hundred bucks! What a hoot! You've earned it, SaxonPig! :D :D

Poper

[rugerman07]

This is getting crazy. Looks like SAXON might make a few bucks off his crazy idea after all. I'm not putting you down SAXON......I admire you!!!!!:D:D:D

[PT1911]

I think it is awesome... everyone wants THE BULLET>>>

[Poper]

Heh, forty-six bucks now. I sure hope that its worth it.Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it on a given day. - That's what make auctions such a good way to sell something. You get it's actual value for that item, that day.

JM2C

Poper

[catfish101]

You know this would be a great idea for a charity sell. Proceeds go to the fallen warriors thing that the guys on Fox do.

[gvnwst]

You know this would be a great idea for a charity sell. Proceeds go to the fallen warriors thing that the guys on Fox do.


That WOULD be intresting.... Plus i am sure we can always use some pro-gun media...

[Targettarget]

Still looking for a screen shot.

[Nugilum]

Here's the current link (sorry, couldn't help myself :evil:)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=128429217

[SquirrelNuts]

This is too funny.

[Ned Kelly]

I guess instead of going out to shoot 10 rounds we will now go out to shoot one round.

"Where did you go today?"

"I went and shot."

"You mean you went shooting."

"No I went and shot one time today. It was at a soft drink can....... I missed!" :(

[conw]

What happens if one of the multi-millionaire bidders complains because the other auction was closed? Sues maybe?

[slabuda]

I seriously want to see that final bid screen shot. I saw 100 mill and have been laughing at this since it was first posted on here.

I NEVER thought the satire would go that far. I REALLY wish comedians like Leno, Daily, etc or Fox's "News caster" O'Riley would have picked up on this.

[Encoreman]

SP, I personally think this could be good press for us if someone with the clout would use it. I think if GB asks for money and the winner doesn't pay, we could start a fund and everyone could pitch in a buck or two for the laugh we had. Or if SP collects the money he could give each of us who posted here a tidy sum. LOL Mac

[geronimo509]

Or if SP collects the money he could give each of us who posted here a tidy sum.

Only to the people that were on the seller's side!

Like I said before i'm not a gold digger, lol, so I wouldn't ask for anything...but, I would accept something. lol

[Quoheleth]

Just checked the new listing.

Auction is closed!!!

And at only $50!!!

It says "Reserve Not Met" yet SaxonPig's listing says "no reserve price." What gives? Did GB get their knickers in knots over this and pull the plug?

Q

[Acera]

Ok what happened?

I noticed that it became a reserve auction, and then it ended with out the reserve being met?

Ok, so no one gets the bullet?

[model of 1905]

Auction ended reserve not met. No money, fun is over.

The attention for our sport is a good thing. The fact that no money changed hands is also a good thing.


BTW I bought a case of .45 ACP FMJ fresh factory ammo today for a very good price and left some for the next guy.

[ratbite]

Perhaps this Bullet got lost in one of those "tragic" boating mishaps that seem to get mentioned from time to time? Perhaps that is why auction was closed? Wonder who will get salvage rights?:D

[Nero_Atrum]

This is the most entertaining thread ever!

[blkbrd666]

Saxon!!! Where are you? What happened with the 7 day auction? I see it looks like a couple of NRs bid and pushed up another proxy bid...is that why it ended?

[SaxonPig]

I liked the suggestion of donating the money to fallen warriors and I was going to add that to the auction but it has been dumped and I have been suspended.

Oh well.

[desidog]

OK. the first auction, i laughed. The second auction, i gasped.
Joke's over....Saxon, you're a class act and should be legally pursuing the $50 now....if not more?

especially if the loot goes to a worthy charity!

[geronimo509]

why? That is some Major BS.


I wonder if I should try? Just kidding

sounds good desidog

[Nero_Atrum]

WTH! If anything GB should be thanking you for all the page views.

[Quoheleth]

Saxon...

Lemme see if I got this right...

As the 1st auction drew its last breaths, you contacted GB and they advised you to relist same item with a new auction. You complied, re-listing the single round. They then not only halted the auction, they also suspended your privileges and account with them???

Anyone else a little hot at this one? :fire:

Q

[PT1911]

Oh yeah.. I was looking forward to the ending of this wonderful drama/comedy that has been taking place over the last few days.... I am totally unfulfilled at that BS... Give you 5 bucks for that bullet... I will even pay shipping... HEHE..

[geronimo509]

Anyone else a little hot at this one?


YES!!! We should all complain to GB

[blkbrd666]

Suspended for what???

[SaxonPig]

Please don't complain to GB. I'm sure somebody got tired of dealing with it. It's a business to the owners and not just for amusement. I already sent a message apologizing. I really thought the relisting was OK. I guess not.

I did mention that all the bids were legitimate, but not sure if that mattered. Anyway, I hope the suspension isn't permanent.

All the critics can now have the last laugh.

PS: I went back and searched my messages and I did find one advising me that no more single round auctions would be permitted. I totally missed the message so it was my fault. I can understand their position. The threat was suspension "for an extended period of time" so I guess eventually I'll be let back in. When I am, I will offer a full box of 45 ACP ammo with proceeds going to Fallen Warriors.

[Ed Ames]

Not laughing.

Just to be clear... I had no problem with either auction. I was just stating my opinion of what I would do. A lot of people took that to mean things I didn't say or mean (I never questioned the legal force of contracts or the validity of selling anything for whatever you can get). I did have a problem with the idea that it was only the bidder's fault and the idea that because "they made it real" there was a problem. "When you choose an action you choose the consequences of that action", even when the consequences are not under your control. Your right to choose that action was and is unquestioned...just don't act surprised when things get out of hand. :)

I like the charity auction idea.

[Prion]

Fun run while it lasted. Sorry to hear about your suspension SP. That was truly great, you are an instant THR legend in my book.

[SaxonPig]

And I repeat, I violated no posted rules with the first auction. They changed the rules and I missed it on the second one. My fault for not locating the message telling me no more single round auctions (which actually occur quite frequently with collector ammo but I guess no more).

But I still maintain that whether the first auction was a god idea or not, it caused zero problems until the phony bidders showed up.

By the way, my punishment was more severe. All the phony bidders got was a warning. I was the one suspended. I also received a threatening email from one of the bidders. Who's the adult, here?

[SaxonPig]

Mr. Steve James, aka stevedz243, sent me the following messages. His last sentence requests that I share the info with all of you.

OK.

-------------------------------------------

I'm reporting you to gunbroker . I f=got a warning for your last joke , now
the jokes on you .

AND I'm going to bid 12 grand once more , try and collect .

You got the BAN hahahahaahah Mr.intellectual . Jokes on you smart ass . Now tell all your highroad buddys what a dumb ass you are .

[Ed Ames]

Yeah, I think we've all done things that were within the rules but landed us in hurtsville. I hope we never devolve to a system where the rules are so strict that simply following them will keep us safe from all consequences. :)

[desidog]

I'm sorry things went the way they did; but if you can turn a profit for a Charity things will not be in vain, or just for our amusement. I would talk to the guys at GB and see if the bidders can be held accountable - enough to make donations to worthy charities for 20 or 50 bucks a piece.

/you don't get anything without asking.

[Acera]

Ok SaxonPig, did they put the reserve price on the auction, then close it because no one had met their price?

I don't remember you putting a reserve price on the second auction the first time I saw it. That was before you posted the two additions.

Just wondering if GB did this to avoid having a winning bidder.




I would talk to the guys at GB and see if the bidders can be held accountable Would not the last bidder be the only one on the hook? The rest lost, not their fault?? :)

[SaxonPig]

Started at a penny with no reserve. It was as legitimate as I knew how to make it. They just decided no more single round auctions and I missed the advisory. My fault. Not ducking responsibility. I think when they close an auction it automatically says reserve not met even if there wasn't one in place.

Like I said, when I am back in I will offer the whole box (including the infamous one) with proceeds going to Fallen Warriors.

[Lone_Gunman]

I think you should consider yourself lucky that you got away with just being banned, and not accused of fraud or theft through misrepresentation. Unless that round really does make Playboy bunnies come running, I think you went overboard with that. Anyway, at least its all over now.

How big of a deal is being banned anyway? Can't you just sign up again with a different user name?

[SaxonPig]

LG, do you sue car companies and beer brewers for their ads and what they promise? Don't you recognize sales hype? Particularly when it's satirical?

Nobody in their right mind actually believes what the text promised. It was part of the joke, OK? Let it go for God's sake, already.

[Lone_Gunman]

No I believed what you said. I didnt think it was hype.

Was the part about the primer hype also?

[SaxonPig]

You must be very gullible.

I'm sorry you were mislead.

But since you didn't bid, why do you care?

[Lone_Gunman]

How do you know I didnt bid?

[fireman 9731]

well what a bunch of party poopers.....

[Gun Slinger]

While I'll not say that "I told you so" (see page 4, post 93), I am not surprised that this ended with account suspensions since the owners of GB have every right to expect that no one engage in this sort of behavior at their expense*.

I found the entire thing to be an entertaining and light-hearted diversion at the very most and anyone who really thinks that Saxon Pig engaged in any form of fraud or misrepresentation needs to check their sense of reality for bugs.

Other than a possible lapse in judgement where the policies and sensitivities of GB and its owners are concerned, Saxon Pig has done nothing criminal and is now paying the price through his "suspension". Give him a break and remember how boring the last 24 hours could have been had he not been such a innovative and entertaining thinker. :)


* It is their service resource and they are the only ones that might have conceivably had anything to lose despite the fact that Saxon Pig meant no harm.

[SaxonPig]

LG- I didn't hear you complain about your bid, so I assumed that you had not not done so.

Either way, I apologize for any inconvenience.

Alright, is there anybody left to whom I have not apologized?

[Kindrox]

Being that GB banned single-round auctions, I propose that his next auction be for two rounds, not an entire box. It should bring in north of $2700.