[AdmiralB]

...how much effort do they take to load?

I've never fired a ML rifle...but it seems like the Minie was developed to address the issue of rifles requiring a lot of effort to load (makes sense).

I realize that rate-of-fire isn't the issue with inlines that it was with rifle-muskets (I guess most inline shooters aren't repelling enemy infanty or cavalry). But it follows that modern inlines that shoot saboted bullets or full-bore conicals would have the same loading effort issues as pre-Minie rifles. Is that correct?

[scrat]

The rifle was designed pretty much to shoot sabots. It works amazingly accurate on sabots. When using sabots the first round as far as effort in loading is not that bad the second one will be pretty hard. Then you need to do a quick swab of the barrel to remove fouling. i found when using powerbelts its a lot better. Accuracy on the sabots though is king. Recently i have been using the REAL bullets. if you are not familiar with them REAL is a .50 caliber mold that is made by lee precision. it is an awesome mold. it is kinda tapered in that the bottom rings are smaller making it go in the bore easily then the top rings stick out and engage into the rifling. Then as you press it all the way down it kinda does two things as it sweeps the bore down. Then when youfire those rings on the back expand and sweep the bore on the way out. they are very easy to load. accuracy is not as great as with a sabot. But at 100 yards i can still hit steel using iron sites and my .50 cva

[arcticap]

The amount of effort depends on the diameter of the sabot and how much fouling is in the barrel.
There are new sabot designs to select from that do load easier and better accomodate slightly different size bores. Included are the crush rib sabots, the 3 petal sabots and those that are slightly undersize and/or shorter in length.

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

http://www.harvesterbullets.com/

There are also many styles of Powerbelt plastic skirted conicals that are easier to load.

http://www.powerbeltbullets.com/faqs.html

http://www.powerbeltbullets.com/index.html

Among the new powders is Blackhorn 209 and IMR White Hots pellets which weigh 20% less than 777 and leave less residue. Some shooters have reported being able to take 20 shots with Blackhorn 209 without swabbing.
Less powder fouling contributes to easier loading and less swabbing difficulty.
Plastic sabots can be quite tough to load if the barrel isn't clean, and some sabots benefit from gentle tapping with a mallet to get them started 1/2 down the barrel for easier ramming.
But because plastic is more flexible and less dense than lead conicals, it's not always necessary for them to be so tough to load. Especially if smaller ones are used for follow up shots while hunting.
Many inlines also have carbine length barrels requiring a shorter ramming stroke and which allows for shorter ramrods, shallower rifling grooves for easier swabbing, and false muzzles which make it easier to align the sabot when starting it.
Plus small amounts of lubrication can be applied to the clean bore or sabot to reduce loading friction.
IMO these factors all contribute to making the loading process a little easier overall than it would be without them.

[AdmiralB]

Thanks gents.

Am I correct in assuming that all of the bullets fired in sabots are (or are derived from) pistol bullets?

Nobody's making a sabot that, say, fires a 7mm spitzer from a .50 bore?

[scrat]

no its not that far off. usually a .50 cal will and can should .45 and .44 depending on the sabots. You can actually buy the plastic sabots themselves and use your own bullets.

[arcticap]

There are .357's for the .45 and .311's for the .36.

But the blue MMP .50 caliber sabots which work with 10mm/.40 caliber bullets are the smallest diameter available for the .50. There are some specialty .40 caliber lead ML conicals made:

http://www.muzzleloadingbullets.com/deadcenter_muzzleloader_bullets.html

The orange MMP .50 caliber sabots work with the .458 diameter bullets designed for the .45-70 Govt.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/shop_image/product/45015.jpg

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=ba07b533c3347e33a6cfe341bd28c47e&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=af5deec836f85b2da637a81825e37bab

And the purple MMP .54 caliber sabots work with .50 caliber conicals.

[AdmiralB]

Yeah, I saw those. Still, I wonder why they don't apply the sabot concept to much smaller-diameter bullets. I'd think you could approach .308 ballistics firing a .30 from a .50 bore.

[arcticap]

I think that those types of longer for caliber bullets are better suited for BPCR rifles.
Consider the .303 British:

The Cartridge, S.A., Ball, Magazine Rifle, Mark I Solid Case, .303inch was first introduced with the Lee-Metford rifle in 1889. In its original form, the round was a 215-grain (13.9 g) round-nosed cupro-nickel jacketed bullet propelled by 71.5 grains (4.63 g) of RFG2 Blackpowder, giving it a muzzle velocity of 1,830 ft/s (560 m/s) and a chamber pressure of about 38,000 PSI (260 MPa). Blackpowder is not very dense, and the charge had to be pressed into a solid pellet in order to fit inside the round.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British

Shooting that type/size of bullet with a sabot out of the larger .50 bore just might prove to be too inefficient and ill suited for hunting purposes compared to shorter, heavier and larger diameter .44/.45 caliber bullets when fired from the same bore.
What would be the purpose of shooting them out of a .50 bore muzzle loader besides just for the sake of experimenting with "wildcat" bullet combinations?
Plus the .50's twist rate may simply not be suitable. :rolleyes:

[AdmiralB]

What would be the purpose of shooting them out of a .50 bore muzzle loader besides just for the sake of experimenting with "wildcat" bullet combinations?

You could conceivably achieve high velocity - exceeding the .303, in a modern gun like a Knight - at relatively low pressure. Flat trajectory, etc.

Dunno about twist, though.