Taurus "Judge" for car/general defense


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LoganDub8388
May 4, 2009, 03:07 AM
Hey guys


I have a glock 22 that i usually carry with me in my worktruck. (I'm a locksmith in greenville, NC) but am looking for a revolver (my first) to keep in the truck for personal defense. My area is not the worst in the world, but for the population in the city the crime rate is quite high. NOW before everyone tells me get a .38 spc or .357 smith for my first wheelgun please note that I am already going to be getting one eventually since i have always loved revolvers and the latter is the obvious choice BUT the JUDGE caught my eye and seems to be a very versitale weapon and quite frankly im fascinated by its double chambering options....the .45 long just seems like the ultimate manstopper all of a sudden! ANYWAY sorry to ramble but if anyone has any experience with these please let me know! any feedback or opinion is welcome. By the way the model in question is the "ultralite" stainless version with 3 inch barrell

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PcolaDawg
May 4, 2009, 10:44 AM
I've got one. It wasn't the first revolver that I bought, but it has been the most versatile. I load it with 000 buckshot and have it by my bed. When I'm mowing the lawn (I have 4 acres with a couple of ponds) I put in three #6 birdshot shells for any copperheads I find, along with two 000 buckshot shells for anything bigger (wild pigs, etc.), and keep it in a side holster while I'm on my riding lawn mower.

If I go on a long trip, I load it with buckshot and it becomes the weapon I keep under my seat.

So it is definately my most versatile gun. In the winter, I've even found ways to conceal/carry it when I go to the movies and such.

The first time I shot it, though, I blew the barrel off of the thing. Took it right back to the gun shop, who sent it right back to Taurus. Got it back about a week later and it's worked great ever since.

Anyway, it's a handy revolver to have because of it's versatility. I rarely keep long Colt rounds in it, though. To me, it's valuable because it shoots shotgun shells. If I am going to use bullets, I will use one of my other guns that are more accurate, such as my Smith & Wesson 625JM, or my Kimber.

Let us know what you do and, if you get it, let us know how you like it!

bedwards1
May 4, 2009, 12:32 PM
You will find that the Judge is a very devisive topic on the forums. Having said that, I love mine. I can hit pretty well with it. I didn't buy it as a target gun and its not marketed as one. Used as intended it does the job very well. Mine is by my bed with 000 buck and W/W silver tips in it. I will use it for snakes when fishing with #6 shot in it. I can put it on paper at 50yds with the 45 colt and 000 buck at 25yds and the snake shot #6 at 10 yards with a good pattern.

enjoy
be

sterling7c
May 4, 2009, 12:52 PM
Sorry to be a wet blanket but while I like the judge I found penetration with shotshell to be poor no matter what loading (even in the magnum) and if I want to use 45 Colt there are better revolvers to be had. Wouldn't use one for SD but great for the garden and snakies.

mgkdrgn
May 4, 2009, 04:17 PM
IMHO, the Judge would fit that bill nicely. It's meant for "bad breath range" personal defense, and to that purpose it lends itself very well.

Mine is a 4" ultralite, 2.5" chamber. Firing Winchester 000 buck (3 pellets) it will put all 3 in a 12 inch pattern at 10 feet, and have enough power at that distance to completely penetrate 4" of pine board. If that isn't fatal, it sure as hell would be very "discouraging" to any attacker. I have -no- doubt that a face full of #4 or #6 shot at "carjacking" range would be fatal.

My usual loading is 1 or 2 rounds of #4 or #6 (depending on what I can get) followed by 3 or 4 X 000 buckshot rounds. The first two rounds are meant to say GO AWAY in a very loud voice, the next three are for if you are too stupid to heed the first two. Personal choice.

In the car, I have a cheapie Uncle Mikes strapped to the front seat so that it ends up between my legs. Very secure while driving, easy access, and if I leave the vehicle for a few moments I toss a black towel over the seat (black interior, black gun, black holster) which renders it invisible.

danweasel
May 4, 2009, 05:23 PM
Do you drive in a heavily sanke infested area?

But seriously, you should go over to the box o truth. They tested the judge and it would be fine as long as you use the 45LC and not the slugs. It's the best judge test I have seen.

ArmedBear
May 4, 2009, 05:32 PM
Do you drive in a heavily sanke infested area?

If I saw some decaf coffee on the side of the road, sure as hell I'd shoot it. Decaf is an abomination unto the lord.

They tested the judge and it would be fine as long as you use the 45LC and not the slugs.

Of course, there are many .45LC guns that handle better, weigh less, and are just generally nicer firearms. Unless you have a real need for the shotshells, I'd look around first.

jad0110
May 4, 2009, 05:55 PM
It is interesting that many people consider a .410 shotgun marginal for self defense, in that even buckshot loads almost always do not meet the 12" FBI's minimum penetration depth requirement. And lopping an additional 2 or so feet off it's barrel length cannot possibly help matters.

Quote:
They tested the judge and it would be fine as long as you use the 45LC and not the slugs.

Of course, there are many .45LC guns that handle better, weigh less, and are just generally nicer firearms. Unless you have a real need for the shotshells, I'd look around first.

Exactly. The Box 'O Truth article is here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

Read and heed it's advice.

As for shotshells, Box 'O Truth found that "... the pellets only penetrated one side of the bottle. They did not exit. That means less than 2 inches of penetration into flesh. Not nearly enough for a defensive round. The poor penetration is the reason that birdshot, in any gauge, is a poor defense load. "

Buckshot: "The buckshot only penetrated one jug and went into the second one. That is equal to about 4.5 inches of penetration into ballistic gelatin or bad guy. Not nearly enough."

Slug: "It penetrated 2 1/2 jugs or equal to 7.5 inches of BG. Again, well short of the 12 inches minimum required for a defense load."

45 Colt: "It penetrated 5 jugs, or equal to 15 inches of BG. Plenty of penetration, but the expansion was not very good, a problem with this particular bullet."

So if using this weapon for serious purposes, I'd stick to 45 Colt ONLY. Might the other loads (bird and buckshot, 410 slugs) with shallow penetration stop a badguy? Yes, but if you're up against an adrenaline/crack crazed pain junkie, you could be in very deep doodoo.

And as ArmedBear mentioned, their are other revolvers (namely the S&W 625/25) that are offered in 45 Colt that are capable of significantly better accuracy than the Judge firing 45 Colt - due to the Judges' considerable freebore.

In the end, I love guns as much as the next guy and you should always get what you like. Just be aware of the pluses and minus before you buy.

ArmedBear
May 4, 2009, 06:59 PM
The 625 is a far nicer gun to carry and shoot, also.

Don't get me wrong: for something that shoots a .410 magnum shell, the Judge is an interesting design. However, there's not much you can do to make a gun with that cylinder handle or carry like a 4" Smith, Colt or Ruger single action, or the new 4" Redhawk .45 which is a good deal heavier than the previous list, but a well-balanced, tractable large-frame revolver.

Also, you don't want to have your face alongside of the cylinder gap of a large-bore revolver, if you figure on using the gun for defense IN the vehicle. Better to have a smaller gun you can get out in front of you a little bit.

RyanM
May 4, 2009, 07:33 PM
Someone else has tested a new 3" magnum judge, can't find the review now, but with the Winchester 5-pellet 000 buck loads, they got the same velocity as the Box o' Truth test. About 760 fps. 68 gr at 760 fps gives you performance halfway between .25 and .32 ACP. Wouldn't tickle to get hit with 5 of those, but one shot of .357 or .45 may be better...

roscoe
May 4, 2009, 08:13 PM
A solution looking for a problem.

earlthegoat2
May 4, 2009, 11:15 PM
Ive been a proponent of not buying a Judge for as long as they have been around. I tend to think the 3" version everyone is so hot on is probably not worth the wait you are putting in to get one. Better just get the 2 1/2 if you have to have one.

It hasnt stopped anyone from buying one though. I bet they hit a lot harder than most of the 380 crap that some people are carrying these days.

dmazur
May 5, 2009, 12:40 AM
You could always get a .44 Mag revolver. This makes a similar rugged, general-purpose gun.

.44 Specials (or handloaded "light .44 Mag") for city, full-up .44 Mag for wilderness camping, .44 shotshells for close-range pests.

DA or SA, each has its proponents. (Mine's SA...)

welldoya
May 5, 2009, 07:56 AM
I've never shot a Judge but I have handled one at the gunshop.
My impression of them is that they are big and heavy which in my book translates into "slow on target".
For close quarters (like in a car), I like my S&W 642. Light and quick.

Brian Williams
May 5, 2009, 09:11 AM
I have a problem with the judge as a Safety rule, with shot shells and a rifled barrel they tend to spin out, potentially creating a rule 4 violation, you do not know what the back stop might be.

Hawk
May 5, 2009, 10:27 AM
We don't need reasons for buying a gun but if we did I'd suppose "novelty" would be as good a reason as any. However, in the specific case of the Judge, it seems to be selling like hotcakes and that would take the "novelty" shine off it for some of us - there are simply too many to be considered a "unique curiosity".

My humble suggestion, if you're not yet an owner, would be to ask yourself if you'd buy it if it was chambered only in .410 and couldn't accomodate the .45LC. I certainly wouldn't.

Then ask if you'd buy it if it chambered only .45 Colt - again, I would pass as there I believe there are much better choices in .45.

If you answered "no" to both questions then the next obvious query is "what is it about combining two guns you wouldn't buy makes it a gun you would buy?" It's this last one that makes me an unlikely Judge owner.

But every new 4473 annoys Josh Sugarman and that makes me happy. I've been of the mind that all firearms are compromises and that the Judge is just more compromised than most as it combines a severely compromised .410 with a substantially compromised .45.

But more power to 'em - they seem to have found a niche that the Thunder 5 didn't quite fill for whatever reason (aesthetics?) and moved right in.

mgkdrgn
May 5, 2009, 12:47 PM
I've never shot a Judge but I have handled one at the gunshop.
My impression of them is that they are big and heavy which in my book translates into "slow on target".
For close quarters (like in a car), I like my S&W 642. Light and quick.

My Judge Ultralite loaded weighs less than my Glock 26.

David E
May 5, 2009, 01:12 PM
Why would you want an "ultra light" anything for a CAR gun ?

The car can handle the weight, which will help with the kick, especially if fired from awkward positions inside the car.

That said, there are plenty of better choices than a Judge for a "car gun."

.

Dimis
May 5, 2009, 03:30 PM
Im a judge owner its a 3 inch chamber 3 inch barrel model (3x3 if you will)

ive found it nice for snakes in the yard
ive also shot 45lc into decent groups from 10 yards
and from that range all 5 of the 000 buck are still on target wide spread but still on target
ive read about "theBoxOTruth" about a billion times and still say that no one wants to be shot even if it isnt going to kill them
i load 2 000 and 3 45lc if the first two dont deter the attacker well im damned sure that the colts will

just remember if you buy a judge use winchester smooth walled ammo because remington binds the action on occasion and the shells swell and are very hard to eject
i dont know any other ammo thats as realiable as the winchester but im sure someone has a few examples

ArmedBear
May 5, 2009, 03:52 PM
no one wants to be shot even if it isnt going to kill them

This is a good reason to spend your hard-earned $500 on a revolver why, exactly?

Damning with faint praise...:)

Here's a stainless Smith and Wesson .38 that would make a perfect gun to keep in a truck, cop turn-in for $230.

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/smith-wesson/revolver/p/smith-wesson-model-64-38spl-4in-stainless%2C-square-butt-w-bobbed-hammer-very-good-condition/cPath/16_211_431/products_id/3103

bedwards1
May 5, 2009, 04:24 PM
You guys take all the fun out of it. I carry a cheap Rossi 38spl which has served me well over the 15 years I've owned it. I think I gave 150 for it back then. I still enjoy the Judge and everyone who has seen it at the range likes it too. Taurus must be doing something right because there for a while, you had to wait in line to get one. Federal CC is making a shell just for it. If I judged everything in my safe the way you judge the Judge, I wouldn't own diddly. Not Bo either. :eek:

ArmedBear
May 5, 2009, 04:26 PM
If I judged everything in my safe the way you judge the Judge, I would own diddly.

Really?

Doesn't work that way for me.

Besides, the OP asked about self-defense gun, not a safe queen. If he said, "I have 500 bucks that I can't stand having in my wallet. I want to shoot .410 and .45 in the same revolver, no matter what its faults," that would have been a different matter.

As for me, I've got a LOT of things I'd rather do with that money (like this Model 19 snubbie at the local pawn shop in near-perfect condition, among other things...) It makes no more sense than the Judge, to me, since I don't want to carry a gun with that finish where it will get all boogered up, and it's not the ideal platform for my .357 handloads. Notice, however, that I didn't recommend a classic blued Smith in excellent condition, either, since the guy didn't ask about a safe queen.:)

There's a different answer, for a different question, that's all.

bedwards1
May 5, 2009, 04:51 PM
I shoot everything I own. I don't have the money for safe queens. My wife bought mine for me and I didn't argue with her! But I do like to own a variety. I've just never seen more negativity about a gun. If the man has the dough then so be it.

There is a local shop that has a lot of guns from an estate sale that I have lusted after for a month, but I only scored a SRH lnib from it. It was made in 2000 and had been fired only from the factory. I will probably never hunt with it but I like BIG guns.
Good luck on your model 19

mgkdrgn
May 5, 2009, 05:50 PM
I have a problem with the judge as a Safety rule, with shot shells and a rifled barrel they tend to spin out, potentially creating a rule 4 violation, you do not know what the back stop might be.

It shoots a larger pattern than a shotgun, yes, but its not like it creates a 180 degree pattern 2" from the barrel. At 8 paces I'm still putting all of my 000 buck and #4 shot on a man-sized target.

By the time you get far enough away to make rule #4 a problem, any "shot" fired from a Judge will have very little energy.

Which, btw, is another reason I like it in the SD role ... less chance of collateral damage.

ArmedBear
May 5, 2009, 06:08 PM
Buckshot retains its energy long after it passes 8 paces. So does #4 birdshot, actually.

Hell, I know a guy who had to have a few #6 pellets surgically removed, and the shooter (his brother, out bird hunting) was 80 yards away. Almost cost him his eye.

Sorry, but you're wrong about this.

Dimis
May 5, 2009, 11:37 PM
ugh another judge hate thread-jacking

Quote:
no one wants to be shot even if it isnt going to kill them

This is a good reason to spend your hard-earned $500 on a revolver why, exactly?



basicly what i was saying is im tired of the "this wont hurt a baby" crap everyone spouts about .410 out of a barrel less than "X" inches long
if it wont do any damage and wont hurt etc. then why dont we all just carry the judge loaded full of .410 000 buck for "less lethal" uses???
oh yea thats right it PROBABLY WILL KILL SOMEONE
but...
since the experts on some halfwitted website have stated the ballistic probability of .410 isnt worth spitting at a bunch of sheep follow suite and scream it as factual
but yet no one wants to be shot with one to prove that its not going to hurt
wonder why that is?

as for ballistic measurments and all the research spent finding out what will kill is just a waist of time there have been many people shot to death with one round from a .22 and alot of cases of people shot SEVERAL times with .45 ACP and lived
so quit bashing the judge for being a lackluster defence choise unless youve been shot with one and can say it didnt hurt you...

and once your done that pull up tour blue tights and slap on the old red cape cause i hear Lois calling

Mgbfred
May 6, 2009, 12:01 AM
I like mine[B]! Say what they may, [B]I tested mine, and I know what it will do in that "bad breath range"!

mgkdrgn
May 6, 2009, 09:03 AM
Buckshot retains its energy long after it passes 8 paces. So does #4 birdshot, actually.

Hell, I know a guy who had to have a few #6 pellets surgically removed, and the shooter (his brother, out bird hunting) was 80 yards away. Almost cost him his eye.

Sorry, but you're wrong about this.

If he had been hit with a 9mm or 45acp round at that range, he wouldn't have "almost" lost an eye.

mgkdrgn
May 6, 2009, 09:12 AM
ugh another judge hate thread-jacking

basicly what i was saying is im tired of the "this wont hurt a baby" crap everyone spouts about .410

I also love the folks that are "experts" on firearms they have never even seen, much less fired.

When I take my Judge to the range, there is usually -somebody- that wants to see / shoot it. Often those folks are among the skeptics who have "heard the experts speak".

The almost universal reaction upon firing the first round is "Son of a B*&^H! They said this thing had no hitting power..." or something of that nature.

It's a tool. It's big. It's not "pretty". It's not a collectible. It's not trophy winning accurate. But at SD distances, anybody on the wrong side of the trigger when it goes off is going to have a very bad (if not final) day.

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 11:13 AM
mgkdrgn-

You are the one who exhibits ignorance about ballistics, nobody else here.

f he had been hit with a 9mm or 45acp round at that range, he wouldn't have "almost" lost an eye.

A couple issues here... The reason he didn't lose an eye is because it missed his eye by 1/2". A 9mm wouldn't have taken out his eye, either, at 80 yards, if it missed his eye.:rolleyes:

Also, that's #6 shot, which is a good deal smaller than #4. The #6 still penetrated at 80 yards, which suggests that #4 shot is still VERY dangerous to bystanders at, say, 20 yards or less. The fact that the pattern is all on a man-sized target close to contact distance hardly suggests a tight pattern.

at SD distances, anybody on the wrong side of the trigger when it goes off is going to have a very bad (if not final) day.

Which could be said about anything from a pocket .380 to a .500 S&W, a single shot flintlock to a Glock 18.

That was my point.

Your statement that nobody wants to get shot does not support the purchase of the Judge, specifically, in any way.

Before you go off on another rant, consider that I did not say anything remotely resembling "a Judge will not hurt its target" and neither did anyone else.

I also never said that the Judge is an unmitigated ball of suckiness. I just wouldn't recommend it as a first revolver, for car-carry self-defense against violent criminals (as opposed to, say, a versatile camp gun where venomous snakes are a real threat, but so are humans and predators).

CleverNickname
May 6, 2009, 11:15 AM
But they'd have a worse day if shot by most anything else. Why you'd want to handicap yourself I have no idea.

Hawk
May 6, 2009, 12:46 PM
...consider that I did not say anything remotely resembling "a Judge will not hurt its target" and neither did anyone else.
Indeed, it does appear at times that participants in "Judge" threads read between the lines as it were. A distinct lack of enthusiasm isn't bashing - it's simply a tepid reception.

I've handled the things and they come across so some of us older types as a 21st century handgun equivalent of the Amphicar. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphicar)

Somehow, marrying a horrible boat with a mediocre automobile resulted in sufficient charm that thousands were sold and a fair number survive to this day. I was one that didn't see the charm in the Amphicar at the time and will likely remain blind to the charm of its handgun equivalent which combines a shotgun few would buy (as a stand-alone shotgun) with an oversized, under capacity .45 Colt that's been cylinder-stretched to accomodate a shotgun round.

But there's a significant portion of the population that firmly believes that a whole is equal to more than the sum of its parts and the Judge may well have appeal with those folks.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Amphicar-main-ffm001.jpg/250px-Amphicar-main-ffm001.jpg

Stainz
May 6, 2009, 12:47 PM
I have run across copperheads and rattlers in the woods - and I walk around them. In my wooded backyard, in a residential area, they are easily dissected with a hoe, if so desired. I hate cottonmouths, but I seldom play in slow moving streams or ponds these days. Oddly, if I had 4 acres to mow, I'd probably be up off the ground on a riding mower. Whether pushing one or riding on one, the prospect of mulching a snake is always there. Besides, for 2yd away - on the ground in front of you - a shot shell for your .38, .44, or .45 would suffice.

I wanted a SS Judge... I liked the 'novelty'. Two years ago this summer, I went to the pusher's - moola in hand - just to watch the last one being sold. The next day - at the range - a blued variant appeared. I had a wood-gripped 625MG in .45 Colt - and my 255gr LSWC @ 880 fps loads. I swapped with the fellow - shot two birdshot .410s and three Cowboy loads - his ammo (No one locally carried 000 loads.). We both like our own guns better. Admittedly, my loads were a bit stiffer than Cowboy loads - and then there was the wood grip - and my far better trigger and 'pointability'. He did hit the small rebounding metal plates with mine, while I didn't hit one with three .45 rounds from his - and I am normally a good shot. The birdshot made what looked like a celestial swirl pattern on the large bg silhouette paper at 12 yd. A family of snakes could have survived. I was not impressed.

I like my 625MGs - usually have one within reach in my Jeep. My front pocket has either a 5-shot .38 Spcl AirWeight, a 642, or a 5-shot .44 Spcl AirLite Ti, a 296, in a Mika pocket holster. That is protection. Those pocket guns, particularly the 642, are 24/7 carry pieces - a Judge would be a holster piece - with limited carry due to it's size and bulk.

Novelty wise, the Judge is a winner. It took years for me to get around to buying that 642 - I was fortunate. I have been fortunate to have it on my person on two occasions already. Whatever you choose, a CCW does you no good when you don't have it... it must be a 24/7 carry. Good luck!

Stainz

outerlimit
May 6, 2009, 12:54 PM
I saw someone shooting 3" magnum .410 000 shot at a target on American Rifleman. It was quite impressive! Throwing out that much lead in the time it takes to pull the trigger five times is incredible.

sterling7c
May 6, 2009, 01:00 PM
Quote by Stainz:

I like my 625MGs - usually have one within reach in my Jeep. My front pocket has either a 5-shot .38 Spcl AirWeight, a 642, or a 5-shot .44 Spcl AirLite Ti, a 296, in a Mika pocket holster. That is protection. Those pocket guns, particularly the 642, are 24/7 carry pieces - a Judge would be a holster piece - with limited carry due to it's size and bulk.

Whatever you choose, a CCW does you no good when you don't have it... it must be a 24/7 carry. Good luck!


Can I give this a +3 ?

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 01:24 PM
I don't know, Hawk. I fully understand that is not a practical vehicle, nor is it a boat that could beat the slightest current or tide. But I've always wanted a Seep for the hell of it.:D

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1942-1944-jeep-8.jpg

shootistpd27
May 6, 2009, 01:50 PM
I fell in love with the Judge from the moment I saw it. I did not buy the gun for me but for my wife. Before the Judge she only had a Walthers P22. The P22 is a great weapon but I was nervous about leaving my wife at home alone with only the 22. For one it is a slightly complicated weapon considering the safety. I would have no problem with it but for my wife who is not mechanically inclined, I fear that in the moment of an attack she would panic and only be pulling the trigger on a weapon with the safety on. "Click Click, no BOOM!" Even if the safety were off, the 22 round is somewhat effective however if my wife does not aim directly at the guy she wont hit him. The judge is a different story. It takes no training to become a crack shot with a 410 6 shot. Folks have been griping about the penetration of the 410, well, if thats the case then I have beaten that problem. First of all when a badguy hears the boom of a gun, most likely the sucker will run. But if he is hit by a 410, he will suffer wounds not only in one area but all over. They may not be fatal but they will getting him to thinking of how to get out of Dodge in a hurry. If you buy the Judge then I recommend that you stagger the rounds like I do for my wife. I have a 410 6 shot in the first chamber to be fired, and then a 45lc, then a OOO buck, 45lc, 410 6shot. With this loading technique the guy is going to suffer injuries. If hes running away he will suffer injuries for the shot gun shell. But if he keeps coming at my wife then the long colt will finish the job. The Judge is a fine weapon and I would recommend it to anyone for SD or for plinking. Its a little expensive to plink with but its fun as heck. Plus you will love watching your friends jaws drop when you pull it out. Just think of what the bad guy will think when he sees it. Good luck!

GEM
May 6, 2009, 07:48 PM
But if he keeps coming at my wife then the long colt will finish the job.

So the first shot isn't a stopper and he then shoots you? IIRC, this is called a Dutch load (from an old police practice there). The idea that you want to use a less effective load is not accepted by many.

That is the problem with the Judge - it seduces folks to use all kinds of schemes as compared to having reasonable competency with a good firearm.

Big Daddy Grim
May 6, 2009, 08:01 PM
Box O' Truth The Judge is not a very good gun for SD not sure when I read this but some guy died using it shot a crook in the face with the judge and crook still shot back I think they both died but don't quote me on that it was a while ago I read that and who believes what they read on the internet. If for SD I would go with .45 Colt at least I know that will stop sombody but still think there are better guns out there. I bought one when they came out and I sold it already was hunting and saw a ruffle grouse pulled the judge and shot the grouse at 6 feet grouse flew off unfased that was when I decided there were better guns for self defense.

ArmedBear
May 7, 2009, 11:29 AM
The idea that you want to use a less effective load is not accepted by many.


True.

I alternate shot and bullets in a small carry gun, but that's because if I'm hiking with my dogs I don't know if I might need it for a rattler or a rabid coyote. I don't do that for personal defense against human attackers.

GEM
May 7, 2009, 12:25 PM
Yep, that makes sense. When hunting, having a J frame with a couple of rounds of snake shot first works for us as you might run into a rattler in TX. Probably not a herd of zombie rattlers, so regular rounds for the rest.

For SD, the Dutch load isn't sensible. The Dutch police used it as they wanted to have nonlethal options given the milder criminals there way back when and with the old fashioned revolvers. Today is different.

doc540
May 7, 2009, 12:51 PM
The "Judge": an answer to a question never asked.:D

DAdams
May 7, 2009, 03:27 PM
Wouldn't have one myself, might be right for you, but it just isn't my cup o tea; I do have many shotguns, revolvers, semi-autos and rifles. I just don't get the Judge. But hey, as WC Fields said .....

vanagon40
May 8, 2009, 10:54 AM
ArmedBear wrote:

Also, you don't want to have your face alongside of the cylinder gap of a large-bore revolver, if you figure on using the gun for defense IN the vehicle.

Could someone please provide more detail on this concept. I measured the gap between the cylinder and barrel of my Judge as .013" (.33mm). I believe something is escaping through this gap.

Is this common?

GEM
May 8, 2009, 12:38 PM
If you have a revolver, put a piece of paper near the gap and fire.

BE CAREFUL with your fingers. Wear gloves, put the paper on a stick or use a long piece of cardboard! You will see that lots of BOOM comes out of the sides.

ArmedBear
May 8, 2009, 12:49 PM
Is this common?

Yes, but it's a characteristic of revolvers, not something bad about the Judge.

The result can range from "man, that was louder than I expected" with a .22 Short, all the way up to "cutting torch" with big-bores and hot magnums.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 8, 2009, 04:29 PM
What Hawk & ArmedBear said.... and I HAVE one. Very specialized use however; simply a swamp/slough anti-cottonmouth gun.

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