Gun Law questions - NY - need info on relocating please


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Black Adder LXX
May 5, 2009, 08:21 AM
Hello to all,

Well, I find myself moving backwards in life, and going from sunny South Florida to the Empire State this summer (cue Darth Vader theme song). I was wondering if any of you folks could offer me some advice on how to proceed (besides the obvious don't go part :D).

I spent some time on the NRA site yesterday pouring over NY state gun laws, and have talked to some folks in NY that are gun owners as well. For clarity's sake, I am NOT referring to NYC, but the state outside the city. Also, I plan on applying for my CC permit, but am referring to the law as pertains to non-CC permit holders.

My understanding is the following:

1. Handguns have to be transferred via FFL into the state for new residents
2. Handgun permits are required to even posses them in your home
3. 10 round max on magazines
4. Handgun permits do not give you the 'right' to keep a gun in your car (besides transporting to a range or something like that)
5. No restriction on rifles or shotguns provided they don't meet the state criteria for assault weapons (short barrel, high cap mags, etc.)
6. No loaded weapons including shotguns in cars
7. My stripped AR lower will not be welcome

Can anyone out there confirm, add to or correct those assumptions?

I also had some questions that I couldn't find answers to in the state law:

1. Is it illegal to even own "high cap" mags even if I never use them? If I kept them in my house but complied with the law when I used my pistol, or does the law require that I don't even posses them in the state?
2. Once I go through the permit process and all, what is required to transport handguns or long guns legally. Do they have to be locked and unloaded or something like that?

Any advice regarding things that are important to know in this process?

Thanks

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45Badger
May 5, 2009, 08:43 AM
Where are you moving in NYS? Some answers depend on where you end up. NYS is "may issue" and conditions on your permit may vary from county to county. To your questions....

1. Handguns have to be transferred via FFL into the state for new residents
2. Handgun permits are required to even posses them in your home. Two kinds of permits in NYS- "home/premises protection" and "carry". Carry can be restricted to "sporting/target use"
3. 10 round max on magazines (unless pre-1994 ban)
4. Handgun permits do not give you the 'right' to keep a gun in your car (besides transporting to a range or something like that) depends on license tyype and restrictions
5. No restriction on rifles or shotguns provided they don't meet the state criteria for assault weapons (short barrel, high cap mags, etc.) Guns made pre-1994 "assault weapons" ban are fine.
6. No loaded weapons including shotguns in cars.
7. My stripped AR lower will not be welcome not sure, but I think you'd be OK

Can anyone out there confirm, add to or correct those assumptions?

I also had some questions that I couldn't find answers to in the state law:

1. Is it illegal to even own "high cap" mags even if I never use them? If I kept them in my house but complied with the law when I used my pistol, or does the law require that I don't even posses them in the state? Strip them down and store them until you move again. If the world comes to an end, you can always re-assemble them for use on zombies.
2. Once I go through the permit process and all, what is required to transport handguns or long guns legally. Do they have to be locked and unloaded or something like that? long guns- Unloaded, in case, ammo separate from gun.CCW- sames as everywhere. Premises permit/hunting-sporting restrictions- unloaded, cased, separate from ammo

Any advice regarding things that are important to know in this process? Welcome to restrictive gun laws, high taxes, and one of the greatest states in the US. Upstate is beautiful with amazing outdoor opportunities (great hunting, camping, fishing, and hiking!). Buy a couple pre-94 ban AR lowers, a pile of pre-94 ban mags for all the guns you like and you'll be good to go on that issue. You may want to buy some new hi-cap mags (to be stripped down) before you go because most folks and companies will not ship them into the state (you can always come to a PA or VT gun show to pick up hi-caps).

Hk91-762mm
May 5, 2009, 09:15 AM
I live in western Ny. AWs ok as long as they are preban =Or Ny compliant[no bayo/flash supressor/folding stock ] think billy ban of years past.
Pistol permit==Why bother-Store you hand guns untill you can flee this place and live free again.Besides it will take you a year to get a permit after you live here long ehough to apply for one . Stripped reciever --I dont see any reason you need to worry It could be asembled as NY compliant --I dont beleave you need an ffl to ship ling guns to ny just bring em .
Again --WHY come here -There are states that would welcome an honest hard working pa6triot American -- Thats why Im out of here-[Wanna buy a house /}

MHBushmaster
May 5, 2009, 11:52 AM
Work on getting your NY Pistol License as soon as you can...it takes months, 6+ months is the norm on average (with some counties being faster or slower depending upon size, location, and leanings of the judges signing the permits).

Semi-auto rifles are fine as long as they are either pre-ban or ban compliant. Post ban rifles (made after 1994) can have 2 evil features: usually the pistol grip and the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

No bayo lugs, no telescoping stocks or folding stocks, not flash suppressors, or a threaded muzzle. Also, post 1994 hi-cap mags (11rds or more) are a no go. Hi-cap mags need to be preban, again made before 1994.

Don't bring your Pistols/handguns to NY, its illegal to have them in your possession without a valid NY pistol permit.

Contrary to popular belief, many upstate NY counties issue many carry permits. NY carry (concealed) permits allow you to conceal a handgun/pistol on your person and you can carry anywhere but government buildings and schools. There are no restrictions for bars/establishments that serve drinks as well as food. All are lifetime permits except one county which require renewal every 5 years.

Unlike PA, you can hunt with a semi-auto rifle. You can own certain class III firearms: AOW's that you put on your pistol permit.

It is a beautiful state outside of NYC...however the gun laws are horrendous, the taxes are high (out of control), and you feel no representation in Albany as down state/NYC out votes upstate on almost everything...

kb2zya
May 5, 2009, 12:37 PM
to get a pistol permit you need to know 4 <two years+> people that live in the county you live.can not be a relative or some one you work with.Soo find new friends fast. I live in soutern tier and it is great hunting small game up to bear.Lot of nice ranges.what part of the state you moving too??

TJ AK-74
May 5, 2009, 01:08 PM
I believe you are only allowed to posses 20 firearms unless you obtain a collector's license, which may not be a problem for you though.

Kragax
May 5, 2009, 02:20 PM
I am also in the Southren Tier where are you located/moving to?

hoohaa310
May 5, 2009, 04:18 PM
I'm also from WNY. Batavia area (smack dab in between rochester and buffalo). Its a great place to live if you're a gun owner (other than the laws of course haha)

Black Adder LXX
May 5, 2009, 04:50 PM
Thanks for the input. I'm moving to Orange County about an hour outside the city. Should I just apply for the CCW right away or go for the permit for my residence first and try for CCW later. I'm a vet and currently have a CCW in Fl.

Dominus
May 5, 2009, 05:03 PM
This place is full of Orange county pistol info:
http://www.ocshooters.com/

Best of luck!

Black Adder LXX
May 6, 2009, 07:35 AM
Thanks Dominus

Speedo66
May 6, 2009, 08:55 AM
Possessing a post ban full capacity mag is a D Fel., just possession alone. In your house,unloaded, etc..

The "assault" weapon needed to be possessed before the ban to be legal.

Don't bring your pistols. Not legal to possess until you are licensed and issued a buy permit for each one.

No general restrictions on sporting type long guns, except 10 round max mags.

No loaded arms, except carry pistols, in car. Don't even lean a loaded gun against the car, it's illegal. Must be unloaded and in case, car trunk counts.

NY has great hunting, one of the highest deer yields in the country. Orange county has excellant hunting. NYS is not NYC.

stormcaller111
May 6, 2009, 11:03 AM
STAY AWAY!!!! i wish i could get outta here.

Dominus
May 6, 2009, 10:08 PM
No problem, I can't think of any real horror stories.
I do believe they issue fully carries with an appearance before the judge........

zminer
May 6, 2009, 11:41 PM
Let's look at the actual laws to be sure (keeping in mind IANAL):

1. Handguns have to be transferred via FFL into the state for new residents

Partially correct. Check this page for details: http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/gun-buy-back-program.html

Look about halfway down where it says "What guns do you have to turn in to the Sheriff's Department? (In NY State.)"

I agree with earlier posters that your best bet is to leave the guns out of state until such time as you get a pistol license, and THEN transfer them in via an FFL

2. Handgun permits are required to even posses them in your home

Correct. Check these pages for more info on the licensing process:

http://www.ocshooters.com/Hand/plgeneral.html

http://www.ocshooters.com/Hand/plnys.htm

3. 10 round max on magazines

Partially correct - if they are pre-ban (manufactured before Sep. 13, 1994), they can be larger than 10 rounds. To wit:

265.02 Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree.

A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree when:
...
(8) Such person possesses a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

"Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

4. Handgun permits do not give you the 'right' to keep a gun in your car (besides transporting to a range or something like that)

Partially correct - it depends on whether your permit is restricted to allow you only hunting and target shooting. If unrestricted, you can carry your firearm concealed wherever you like (with the exception of schools and state-owned buildings). See #2 above for info on restrictions.

From http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm :

"Possession of any 'loaded' rifle or shotgun in a vehicle is illegal. A loaded handgun may be carried in a vehicle by a properly licensed individual. ('Loaded' means loaded in magazine or chamber. A loaded handgun means one for which the person possesses ammunition.)"

5. No restriction on rifles or shotguns provided they don't meet the state criteria for assault weapons (short barrel, high cap mags, etc.)

Except the restrictions about carrying them loaded in the car, yes.

An assault weapon is:

22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher;

or

(b) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following
characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable
magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the
pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash
suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm
with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is
unloaded;
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic rifle, shotgun or firearm;

or

(d) any of the weapons, or functioning frames or receivers of such weapons, or copies or duplicates of such weapons, in any caliber, known as:
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all
models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street
Sweeper and Striker 12;

(e) provided, however, that such term does not include: (i) any rifle,
shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or
slide action; (B) has been rendered permanently inoperable; or (C) is an
antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16);
(ii) a semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine
that holds more than five rounds of ammunition;
(iii) a semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds
of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine;
(iv) a rifle, shotgun or pistol, or a replica or a duplicate thereof,
specified in Appendix A to section 922 of 18 U.S.C. as such weapon was
manufactured on October first, nineteen hundred ninety-three. The mere
fact that a weapon is not listed in Appendix A shall not be construed to
mean that such weapon is an assault weapon; or
(v) a semiautomatic rifle, a semiautomatic shotgun or a semiautomatic
pistol or any of the weapons defined in paragraph (d) of this
subdivision lawfully possessed prior to September fourteenth, nineteen
hundred ninety-four.


6. No loaded weapons including shotguns in cars

[See #4 above]

7. My stripped AR lower will not be welcome

I really don't know why this would be.

1. Is it illegal to even own "high cap" mags even if I never use them? If I kept them in my house but complied with the law when I used my pistol, or does the law require that I don't even posses them in the state?

Unless they are pre-ban magazines (as described above in #3) this is correct - you may not possess post-ban magazines of more than ten rounds.

2. Once I go through the permit process and all, what is required to transport handguns or long guns legally. Do they have to be locked and unloaded or something like that?

See #4 above - just keep them unloaded, separate from ammunition, and in the trunk so there's no way they could be construed as being "loaded."

BBQLS1
May 7, 2009, 03:10 PM
I'm sorry guys, but that place is so screwed up. It's a little depressing.

e.lectronick
October 25, 2010, 04:37 PM
Hello, all

This is my first post, here. I'd like to ask someone to confirm for me that my reading of the following is correct (Thanks to zminer for posting this information):

"(e) provided, however, that such term does not include: (i) any rifle,
shotgun or pistol that (A) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or
slide action"

I am reading it that a lever action rifle (such as the Marlin 1894CSS .357 magnum with an 11 round tube) is NOT considered an AR under this law, correct? Section (e) is saying that the words "such term" means the term "Assult Rifle". Thus, since it is not a semi automatic rifle, it is not restricted to a 5 round capacity, and would thus be legal within NY (NYC), correct?

Thanks in advance for confirmation/clarification of this. Sorry if it's an obvious answer. I get a little tripped up with legal speak. I guess that's the intent.

-E.lectronick

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