12ga/.22/ or 30-30 for larger coyote?


PDA






qwert65
May 5, 2009, 11:16 PM
Hi, My parents have recently moved to KY(mercer co) They have a bit of a coyote prob. ate a couple of the house cats,a baby goat and I caught one stalking one of our foals( unarmed I yelled and it ran off)

Our farm dog died of old age and my parents current dogs are useless So my ques is of these calibers which is better.(these are what the have to work with) The coyote I saw was about the size of a collie. As a veternarian being humane is a must and I was wondering if 22 would do the job humanely?

My father has declared war on them(he really liked one of the cats) he's a crappy shot when we practice but when ever hes had to kill stuff groundhogs etc. he turns into daniel boone so I'd be comfortable with him using my shotgun or 3030. (hes only got a 22s) So think a 22 will do the job humanely? or is a step up in caliber needed? shots can be anywhere from couple feet to 200yds

If you enjoyed reading about "12ga/.22/ or 30-30 for larger coyote?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Art Eatman
May 6, 2009, 12:08 AM
A .22 to 40 or 50 yards, with a head shot. If the shotgun is full-choke, or if you use a full-choke insert tube, most any shot from #2 on to 00 will do. 00 will likely work to around 50 yards.

If you really figure on 200 yards, you'd need the .30-30--if you're skilled enough to hit at that distance with (I'm guessing) iron sights. One thing for sure, the .30-30 will work from up close to on out.

shiftyer1
May 6, 2009, 12:17 AM
I'm sure a .22 will work in the right hands, I used to know an old man who quietly deer hunted with one. BUT I would be more confident in my ability with a 30-30 or a 12 ga. with slugs or buckshot. Also when you get one skin it and throw the skin or even the whole carcase over a fence where they come in most. I've never tried this but have heard numerous times that it keeps them away. Can't hurt unless the winds blowing back at u. I do know coyotes are pretty smart.

Also if recoil is an issue a .410 with slugs will work well also.

qwert65
May 6, 2009, 08:12 AM
Thanks for the replies, I didn't think a 22 to the chest would be humane but wanted to check.

I'm not comfortable enough to take a shot at 200yds with a peep sight, but i don't know if my Father is. Like I said in my previous post at the range hes about avg but when it counts he always seems to hit where he aims.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 6, 2009, 11:11 AM
I was wondering if 22 would do the job humanely?

IMO, No, unless it's the head shot Art mentioned. Use the 12 ga with something like #1, #2, #3, or #4 buckshot at close ranges around the house (out to 30-35 yards), and/or use the .30-30 at all ranges, or get something different chambered in .22 Hornet or larger (.223 remington, etc.).

Here's your ultimate yote gun:

http://www.remington.com/library/history/firearm_models/SPR94.asp

12 ga / .223 rem

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 11:52 AM
I really think he needs to buy you a brand new Mark V Lazermark in .257 Weatherby, topped with a nice Swarovski.

In return, you can take care of the coyotes for him.:D

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 6, 2009, 12:02 PM
Should work, as long as he's within 3 adjacent counties of the farm. :)

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 12:05 PM
It shoots nice and flat for those quick shots of opportunity, and looks attractive hanging by the window. What more could you ask for?:D

saturno_v
May 6, 2009, 12:38 PM
There is 22 and 22.

I never hunted but I use sometimes the 22 LR Aguila Interceptor HP for plinking and that stuff is significantly hotter (and noisier) than any other high velocity 22 (even lighter than 40 grains) I ever seen.

I read that people used it very effectively at reasonable distances on coyotes even with chest shot...they open up nice....and if you use a reliable autoloader you can always have the chance of a fast second shot if you are good....

Prairie Dogs and the like got "red misted" by my friend using the Aguila similarly to when you use a high velocity centerfire round. I saw it myself, it was impressive.

I suspect the CCI Velocitor HP is very close in performance even if not quite the same.

Aguila e CCI cost significantly more than your run of the mill solid high velocity 22 LR from Remington, Winchester, etc...but there is a reason for it...

With the price of ammo these days I would not use the 30-30...too much of a gun for the task....obviously a 223 would be ideal...


That said, coyotes sometimes can be damned hard to put down almost regardless of caliber....recently a guy on an eastern Washington farm put a 257 Roberts round into one that blew an hole so large that you could almost see through...the thing run away leaving a very wide blood trail.....the fellow had to track it and finish it off with his Mini 14.

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 12:57 PM
That said, coyotes sometimes can be damned hard to put down almost regardless of caliber....recently a guy on an eastern Washington farm put a 257 Roberts round into one that blew an hole so large that you could almost see through...the thing run away leaving a very wide blood trail.....the fellow had to track it and finish it off with his Mini 14.

Ah, but when you try to explain this to people in a thread about defense against domestic dogs, bred to ignore pain, they seem to think a shot from a 9mm will stop any attack.

People can grossly underestimate what a badly-wounded animal can do, since it doesn't think like a human.

MCgunner
May 6, 2009, 01:37 PM
I've shot 'em with .22 and I've shot 'em with .308. They all died.

bred to ignore pain, they seem to think a shot from a 9mm will stop any attack.

It did for me, just judging by his response. Changed his attitude right quick, it did! :D He was a big mutt, not sure there was any breeding, though. He now resides in doggy hell.

rcmodel
May 6, 2009, 01:45 PM
If you have neighbors within a mile or so, be aware that winging 30-30 deer bullet ricochets across the county will not win you any friends.

A .223 or other high-velocity varmint caliber, using varmint type bullets, would be more suitable, and far safer as the bullets blow up when they hit the ground, or the coyote.

rc

hardluk1
May 6, 2009, 02:00 PM
I to would say to try the 22 with the fastest /heaviest rounds you canfind if it shhots them well ,site in for 75 yards and with the rifle is a semi-auto ,double tap when shooting . You might get 2 shoots in. The shot gun ,,If change able chocks try your full and superfull ,buy some 1buck, 4 buck ,bb loads and see how good a patern it will throw. Forget the 0,00 and 000 buck, it will not work well over 60 yards. There are control wade loads out to that can add some pattern control at longer range. You might be very surprised buy a pattern at longer distance if you find a round your gun likes. If the 22 works let them eat each other. Once the food disappears around your area so will they. You could hang some poisoned meats too if no strays around.

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 02:04 PM
It did for me, just judging by his response.

Sure.

Sometimes it does. I'm just saying that you can't count on it.:)

saturno_v
May 6, 2009, 02:06 PM
ArmedBear

When attacked by a bear, dog, whatever animal with a strong will, teeth and claws, what can really guarantee to stop an attack immediately is a CNS shot...doesn't matter if a 22 or a 460 Weatherby Magnum...if the bullet gets there, lights out....

That said, couple of years ago a vicious pitbull with a temperamental history in my area was very effectively put down during one attack by two round of hollow point 9 mm.....get him in the neck or head and the attitude will be gone quickly....nine is fine.

Caliber in that particular situation was a negligible factor behind many many other thing...shooter ability to remain calm, shot placement, gun reliability.... 9, 357, 40, 45, it doesn't matter

rcmodel
May 6, 2009, 02:07 PM
You could hang some poisoned meats too if no strays around.Now, thats a pizz poor idea.

You would be poisoning every scavenger bird & animal in the country.

Poison stays in the food chain for a long long time after the target animal dies.

rc

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 02:11 PM
get him in the neck or head and the attitude will be gone quickly....nine is fine.


.22 is fine. I wasn't saying that.

A real dog ATTACK is not something that happens slowly, though. Most animal attacks are not. People can and sometimes do fire many rounds without stopping the attack, if they're not CNS shots.

Just something to know.

(Old hunter's saying: he's dead, but he doesn't know it yet. A cop told me he's seen a human criminal with his heart completely blown out by gunfire, continue to attack a group of policemen.)

saturno_v
May 6, 2009, 03:16 PM
22 is fine. I wasn't saying that.

A real dog ATTACK is not something that happens slowly, though. Most animal attacks are not. People can and sometimes do fire many rounds without stopping the attack, if they're not CNS shots.

Just something to know.

(Old hunter's saying: he's dead, but he doesn't know it yet. A cop told me he's seen a human criminal with his heart completely blown out by gunfire, continue to attack a group of policemen.)
Today 10:07 AM



We agree perfectly..

That is the reason I find ironic that many people think that just increasing the power of the gun, you increase your chances of survival...it is a very fallacious and potentially dangerous argument.... yes you need at least a certain amount of power (always assuming proper bullets for the job) to get through skin, fat, bone muscle...beyond that is almost useless...more blast + more recoil = more chances of a mistake


So on one end a 22 LR round in the ear of in the eye probably could stop a grizzly....but it would not be very smart (actually incredibly foolish!!!) to rely on it against an angry big bruin....

On the other end, if I'm an emotional poor shooter, a 375 is not going to do me any better than a 30-06...

If I'm a very good shot and capable to remain calm, the advantage of a 375 over the 30-06 is negligible in the grizzly scenario....again assuming proper bullets....relying on a typical 30-06 150 gr. cheap deer bullet would be foolish too...

Finally, going back to the dog attack example, I cannot really see any circumstances whatsoever where, all other factors being equal, a 45 would save your butt where the 9 mm would get you in trouble.....it really doesn't make sense...

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 03:43 PM
So on one end a 22 LR round in the ear of in the eye probably could stop a grizzly....but it would not be very smart (actually incredibly foolish!!!) to rely on it against an angry big bruin....

It's been done. Wish I could find the link. A hiker had a .22 handgun on her, and was attacked. Killed the bear. Either she has the coolest nerves in the world, or the best luck. Probably both.

ArmedBear
May 6, 2009, 03:46 PM
I cannot really see any circumstances whatsoever where, all other factors being equal, a 45 would save your butt where the 9 mm would get you in trouble.....it really doesn't make sense...

The .45 with a good expanding bullet can disable the animal with much higher probability than the 9mm, simply due to the size of the bullet.

It comes to the same question: have you ever shot and killed anything with a slow bullet? (Both 9mm and .45 are in the "slow" category.)

Bula
May 6, 2009, 05:56 PM
To me the choice is clear, the 30-30 wins hands down. While the .22 might, and the 12 ga will (if the distance is right) the 30-30 will absolutely put down coyotes from 0-150 yds, easily. As was mentioned before, be mindfull of ricochets. If it were me, cast bullets and mid level loads would be perfect from a handy carbine or even a 20" 30-30.

hardluk1
May 6, 2009, 06:03 PM
rcmodel ,ain't the first time it's been done and do it at night, hung from a hieght the coyote's will work for it and as i said if no strays running around. It kinda depends on the coyote numbers. If you talk to your area widlife bioligist you will find the right stuff to use. What a wimp. So what if a few crows went to . Most places you can hunt them year round too.
Quert65 If you have wild dogs and not the coyotes,you have a much worse problem than just coyotes and the local fish and game should be let in on the problem.They should probably be told about your problems with the coyotes allready. They might like to get envolved.

MCgunner
May 6, 2009, 06:49 PM
A real dog ATTACK is not something that happens slowly, though.

Tell, me about it. It was very close range, all I had time for is a flash sight picture as he turned on me. I hit him around the diaphragm area too far back to put him down then and there. I have no doubt that a shoulder shot would have killed him post haste, though, 115 grain XTP JHP at 1262 fps. He stopped the biting and staggered off yelping and eventually died, but the fight was out of him at that point. I wasn't real worried about the thing, had to take one of my surviving cats to the vet. That's what started it, he came in my yard and tore into my cats. I tried to run him off by kickin' him, but he wasn't a real nice animal.

Had he not stopped, I'd have tried to better place a second shot. Just like with a human, you shoot until the fight stops.

This has absolutely no bearing on the OP, though. Like I say, I've used .22 and .308 to good effect. I left out the one I hit in the forward body with a 12 gauge dove load and he stumbled, fell, and ran off. I guess he probably died somewhere. I was told by the land owner to kill every one I laid eyes on. This one, I was leaning against a tree having a good ol' time blasting late season doves when out of the corner of my eye, I saw this coyote trotting straight for me, oblivious to my location. I swung around when he was about 25 yards out, he started off at a 90 degree angle to me and I lowered the boom. Now, I'm sure if I'd been loaded up with dead coyote or 4 ought buck or something, he'd have been down. All I had was 7.5 shot in 2 3/4" 12 gauge as I was actually after doves. Nope, not great results, LOL! Dick Cheneyed his arse, though. :D

saturno_v
May 6, 2009, 06:54 PM
ArmedBear


I'm sorry but I do not agree

The bullet size difference between the 9 and the 45 is too negligible too make much of a difference,, always assuming all other factors equal (same shot penetrating the same area)

Clint C
May 6, 2009, 08:33 PM
I have seen #4 buck magnums kill coyotes at 75-100 yards. They reach a lot farther than people give credit.

hardluk1
May 7, 2009, 07:08 PM
Mc gunner We had people that hauled there unwanted dogs to the county landfill area and they would packup and after some time fish and game finally had to open a year round season with the hope that most could be countroled by people in the area and hunters across from the landfill. It did take a while but it was done. Strange to have a darn full sized poodle all bowed up at you wanting to eat ya. Them dogs would run in packs up to 12 and were much worse than coyotes were. Atleast coyotes ate what they kill not dogs. Clint I grew up hunting sfl swamps and we used almost nothing but 12ga shotguns for years and most people would not believe how far you can kill deer with great patterns if you took time to find what your shotgun liked. We would get 4 or 5 of use together and buy 25 round boxes of 4b,1b and 0b in 2 3/4" and 3" mag and start shooting till you found what your gun liked and then went home to put ice on your shoulder for a couple days. Don't know anyone that used 0 or even 00, no triple back then. The 0 types just did not pattern at long distance from fullchocks. Sure did ruin some meat from time to time.

JImbothefiveth
May 7, 2009, 07:26 PM
I'd use the .30-30, especially at those ranges.

edelbrock
May 7, 2009, 07:37 PM
I'd use the .30-30, especially at those ranges.
I agree. The 30-30 is the better option of the three unless it is extremely close range then the shotgun will work better.

qwert65
May 7, 2009, 08:45 PM
thanx for the replies everyone, looks like its the 3030

Supertac45
May 8, 2009, 06:39 PM
A .22 LR will work fine. They just don't drop them on impact. A .22 centerfire works faster. Your choice.

gunsandreligion
May 9, 2009, 10:43 PM
A .22 LR will work fine. They just don't drop them on impact. A .22 centerfire works faster. Your choiceI'v seen plenty dropped like a stone with a 22lr with out any suffering and if you think it wont work there even was a guy who shot a bull moose with a nylon 66.

SHvar
May 10, 2009, 01:19 AM
Is it legal to use a semiauto rifle in KY for hunting coyotes? If so have fun with it and get an AR-15 or possibly an SU-16 (not sure personally how good they are compared to ARs).
A .223 in bolt action, such as a Ruger Model 77 MK11 target rifle could be fun shooting coyotes.
I can tell you that if you shoot them in the coldest part of winter they have fantastic fur coats, make use of them if so. Tan them, and use them for coats, gloves, etc.

alsaqr
May 10, 2009, 09:12 AM
I have seen #4 buck magnums kill coyotes at 75-100 yards.


+1
#4 buckshot is my go to shotgun load for called in coyote.

If you enjoyed reading about "12ga/.22/ or 30-30 for larger coyote?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!