[Brian Williams]

We all have seen the threads or posts to the effect; Don't get a (insert favorite hellendamnation cartridge) if you have to fire it off inside your house it will blind and deafen you....
I would like only those who have actually fired off a handgun inside to tell us what it was like,
Were you blinded by the flash?
Were your ears ringing if you did not have ear protection?
Are you deaf now?
Could you continue to shoot if you had to?
etc

I am not proposing that we go without ear and eye protection.
What I am looking to dispel are the Myths spread by those high and mighty Internet Gods and Goddesses who say such drivel and nonsense.

[Erik]

I've both fired a handgun indoors and been in proximity to another doing the same. (Separate instances; no ear-pro.) The reports seemed very loud. Nobody was blinded. Nobody deafened, though several ears were left ringing for a little while. My best guess is that repeated exposure would likely damage hearing.

[TAB]

there is no question, you have done damage to your hearing.( and will do more with every shot)
Yep, but what is your experience...?/?bw

[ArmedBear]

I've done it by accident.

My reaction? OH S---! I forgot my hearing protection!

I wasn't deaf, but it hurt. I wasn't blinded either. I've shot in poorly-lit indoor ranges a lot, too dark to see the sights well enough, and the flash has not been a real issue with anything from cowboy-load .38s to full-house .44s.

Honestly, I think the most significant factor, tactically, is the surprise -- it's LOUD.

Even a .22 Short is really loud from a revolver, in a living room with a laminate floor...:D Won't do THAT again without hearing protection...

Now long-term is a different story. I know some incredible older shooters (who have done well at Camp Perry, in the Olympics, etc.) that trained with the FBI, local police and sheriffs departments, and the military, back when hearing protection was not a concern. Most of them can't hear a damn thing any more -- gotta yell at them to get their attention even thought they're not THAT old -- but they can still shoot well.

Whatever their differences in shooting style and technique, their universal advice to me, when coaching me with a pistol, is WEAR HEARING PROTECTION, and not just plugs, full earmuffs, when shooting indoors.

Just wanted to be sure that I'm not in any way advocating shooting any caliber, in any gun, indoors without "ears", if you can help it.

(Okay, maybe a bolt-action Flaubert, but that's another story that won't be told here...)

[outerlimit]

The closest I've come to firing a revolver indoors was a Ruger Single Six 5.5" with a .22 magnum from inside of a car. It was during the daytime, so I was not blinded, but my ears did ring for the rest of the day. It's something I won't do again!

I keep a pair of Surefire earpros on the nightstand, the ones the soldiers use. You can hear things like normal conversation, but it blocks out loud noises. Someday I'll upgrade to some electronic ones.

[Guitargod1985]

I have fired a .45 ACP indoors, and although it did not leave me permanently deaf, it did significantly impair my hearing for at least an hour or so.

[TeamPrecisionIT]

I have worked with explosives and live fire during training drills where one time (just for more a realistic approach to said training) we didn't go with ear pro. We had communication units in but they did not provide much hearing protection, maybe a couple decibels but that is all.

It was five of us and we used the Beretta M9, Colt M4's and a Mossberg 590's and the report for all was pretty damn loud. If I recal correctly the 'room' we cleared was 20x30 or so. We weren't deafened but did have a small ringing in all of our ears when the breach drill was complete. Did we do damage to our ears? Yes. Did we learn how loud it was? Yes. Flash was pretty bad but not as bad as the flashbangs which lit up the room but they had enough report and muzzle flash to cause a little issue with night vision (not the uber cool technology but your natural night vision).

It did NOT blind me and I am not deaf now. I would say on a percentage scale that my vision was 40% less strong for a minute or two and my hearing was 20% reduced with a ringing. Now, I am not completely sure on JUST the handgun because of the other firearms involved but MY weapon was the handgun and I can only comment on it and it's effects on me. I can tell you for sure that the M4's were LOUD! IMO louder than the shotgun with the breacher rounds in it.

The total rounds shot off in the room from all of us was less than 20 rounds IIRC so I am not sure on extended exposure to live fire within the confines of a space and what effects it would have on natural hearing and vision. I am sure it can be pretty much a exponential downward sprial for both hearing and vision if say someone went in FA on something like an M14 SBR or similar.

Damian

[ArmedBear]

BTW I think that a revolver is about the worst (for the shooter), even a .22 like outerlimit and I shot. The sound comes from the cylinder gap on both sides, as well as the muzzle.

I can't shoot a .22LR revolver outdoors without at least wearing plugs. A semiauto pistol is a lot quieter to the shooter, and with something like my 24" lever-action .22LR, I hear the mainspring louder than the report from the shot (outdoors). The muzzle is far from the ears, and the sound goes sideways and forward, not back.

Now, per TeamPrecisionIT, when you're NOT the shooter and NEXT TO the gun, it's even louder (especially something at Mach 3 like a 5.56).

[sterling7c]

Avoiding a double post : see post#15 in thread 'what to load my 357 for home defense'

Brian Williams (Mod) said:
I would like only those who have actually fired off a handgun inside to tell us what it was like

From personal experience as well as that of colleagues.

[Vern Humphrey]

several ears were left ringing for a little while.
If your ears are ringing, or your hearing is "temporarily impaired," you have suffered permanent hearing damage -- and an audio test will prove it.

[TeamPrecisionIT]

The question was did it make me deaf, I am sure it hurt my hearing and never said otherwise, but it did not make any of us deaf (right then and there). I'm sure doing it long-term or with a major influx of loud noise it could make you deaf on the spot, but that one drill did not.

Damian

[CWL]

I negligently fired a .45ACP round into my friend's apartment floor once (230gr. golden saber) with 2 other people present. Nobody lost their hearing, in fact it became so quiet inside that we cold hear traffic driving by outside.

I have also fired about 10 .22lr from the open bedroom doors to a tree outside. It was loud and I wouldn't make a habit of it, but didn't experience any temporary hearing loss.

I've done several night fire and low light training courses now (indoors and outside) and I do not believe that muzzle flash from .45CP nor 12ga blinded me, in fact we were supposed to try and use the "flash" to sight our targets. One drill involved our trainer shining his Surefire into our eyes to blind us, after which we were to find targets and engage. In this situation, the muzzle flashes were actually helpful.

[Vern Humphrey]

it did not make any of us deaf (right then and there).
But it will over time.

And when you finally get hearing aids, be prepared for the shock of your life.

[Brian Williams]

Vern, I don't doubt that those of us who have shot indoors or for any amount of time without ear protection have some or a bunch of hearing loss. I had shot many bricks of 22lr in high school stupidly without hearing protection and I am paying for it today.
I have shot 357 mag (14gr of 2400 with a 125gr jhp) and a +p 9mm both out of revolvers inside and I know that my ears rang only for a short while and those in the room with the 357 all said that their ears did not ring.

[SharpsDressedMan]

My indoor gun. Browning HiPower 9mm, 147 JHP, AAC Scorpion suppressor. Taking the bite out of indoor shooting.......http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05246.jpg

[Vern Humphrey]

I know that my ears rang only for a short while
Ringingin the ears for any time at all after exposure to noise is a sign of permanent damage.

[outerlimit]

I'm actually kind of surprised by my lack of hearing damage considering that I used to blast loud music all the time by headphone or loudspeakers/concerts and often did not use hearing protection around firearms. I can always hear high pitched sounds that other people cannot hear and I get woken up easily by noises.

Ringingin the ears for any time at all after exposure to noise is a sign of permanent damage.

I can't even imagine the amount of times I've experienced ringing of the ears, but I don't feel my hearing is any worse than it ever was. Yet, I'm sure that's hard to gauge since it happens over years.

[Brian Williams]

Nice pic and nice equipment but it is not what I am looking for. Do you have experience shooting a gun indoors and did the flash/blast cause you a problem, loss of night vision, ringing in your ears?

[John Wayne]

Most indoor ranges have two doors between the shooting range and store area, so that one remains closed as the other opens, to cut down on noise.

The tendancy of most inexperienced shooters is to open the first door and stand in the hallway while they don their ear and eye protection.

From time to time, someone on the range side will open that door while guns are being fired. Judging by the reactions of those who don't have ear protection on, it ain't no fun. They do not appear to have immediately evident permanent damage though.

[Just One Shot]

:neener:





I shoot at an indoor range and can tell you that hearing loss is possible, not only from firing in doors without proper hearing protection, but also when shooting outdoors.

Blindness is a different matter. It's a myth much like the one your mother told you when you reached puberty!
:D

[blkbrd666]

Several times. Ears ring...it's not as pleasant as a foot massage, but not a big deal. I still hear things that I should not be able to as an adult(frequencies audible to children and teens). So, I guess I must have had dog ears prior.

[Walkalong]

.45 ACP inside.

Flash...Not noticed.

Hurt....not really.....Hearing....yes, it was impaired, but not that bad....kind of like being in a well. Adrenaline rush? Yes sir.

The calibers that "crack" vs "boom" have been worse outside. Haven't experienced those inside.

I grew up shooting guns outside with out hearing protection. Maybe that is why I devoloped a like for guns that went "boom" instead of those with the painful "crack".

[LibShooter]

First, if I have to fire indoors in self defense, hearing loss and temporary loss of night vision will be the LAST things on my mind.

Second, If I have to fire indoors in self defense so often that I notice permanent hearing loss, I need to move.

A real self defense situation is not the time to worry about hearing protection.

As to the OP's question, I accidently fired three quick rounds from a .45 at an indoor range, with muffs parked above my ears. It took three rounds for me to notice my mistake. My ears were ringing, but my hearing appeared to be back to normal in 10 or 15 minutes. I'm sure that event added to the incremental damage done by gunshots, concerts, loud engines and headphones I have inflicted on my ears over the years.

[outerlimit]

First, if I have to fire indoors in self defense, hearing loss and temporary loss of night vision will be the LAST things on my mind.

This has been said one thousand million billion trillion quadrillion times before.

I totally agree with this statement.

However, since I am a human, with the ability to think ahead and prepare for possible future events, I choose to have hearing protection as an option. If I don't have time to put hearing protection on, so be it, my gun is still there and I'll reach for that instead. And I'll shoot without hearing protection and possibly do irreversible damage to my hearing. And that's that.

Let's move on.

[Gryffydd]

WEAR HEARING PROTECTION, and not just plugs, full earmuffs, when shooting indoors.

Properly inserted plugs have at least as good of db reduction as most muffs. Often better. The problem comes in when people don't insert them fully or properly.

[Floppy_D]

My neighbor ND'd a 229 in 40S&W into my wood floor, while I was standing next to him. We were near a corner, so the acoustics were against us, too. The lights were on but rather dim (it was around 9pm). I was not wearing any protection, and did not anticipate the shot at all.

I don't remember a flash. I do remember it being loud enough that my ears had a good, hard ring for a few minutes. When the adrenaline wore off my ears hurt a little, I just remember how loud it was, the ring, and how quiet everything seemed for the next few minutes. In the morning everything seemed back to normal. I get my hearing checked regularly and it's pretty good.

The best way to describe the after feeling... if you've ever been to a loud concert, and then on the car ride home your head feels a little fuzzy and everything's a little muffled... a day or two later all's back to normal. That was pretty close.

When it happened, the adrenaline shot was huge. It was incredibly startling. The noise was louder than I thought it would be, but my ears didn't fall off and I didn't go blind.

[Vern Humphrey]

Properly inserted plugs have at least as good of db reduction as most muffs. Often better. The problem comes in when people don't insert them fully or properly.
Wear both -- a properly sealing set of muffs over properly fitted ear plugs.

When you lose hearing, you can't get it back.

[scythefwd]

I have shot indoors once with no protection. It was a 9mm, and I only got out 5-6 shots before I quit. My ears rang for the whole next day. It was physically painful each shot. This was in an 15X20X9 ft concrete basement. I wasn't def, but you did have to annunciate to be understood. Flash was un-noticed because the lights were on.

[Six]

A specific question I'm curious about in addition to the ones asked by the OP is:

Were you able to have a conversation immediately/shortly after?

Especially curious if you had a phone conversation and whether you were able to understand the other person.

[Odd Job]

I fired a .25 Baby Browning indoors (basement level of a shop) without ear protection while trying to apprehend a robber who had stabbed a security guard.
Admittedly this was a mousegun, but it was pretty damn loud! This was a well-lit shop and there were no adverse visual effects.
I can't remember any ringing from that incident.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Yeah, your ears are going to ring, and you will experience hearing loss, possibly severe and permenent. So far the flash hasn't messed me up too much during shooting. I heartily recommend NOT picking short barreled .357's or .44 mags for personal defense, with full, hypervelocity loads. Some loadings burn a lot of powder OUTSIDE the barrel, resulting in a flash way bigger than it needs to be. Subsonic loads are ALSO better for reduding the "crack"/blast from handguns. I feel the big bores at subsonic velocities with heavy bullets is the best compromise for self defense in confined areas (including vehicles). If you are a bodyguard, VIP protection ,etc, and have to shoot from vehicles, for instance. I can't even imagine a short barreled rifle inside a house. Or a Krinkov. I had a breech blow open on a subcaliber insert while being fired in a break open shotgun in a confined area (I was fring from a port in a low ceiling building. My hearing is now a permanent ringing/hissing sound, making it hard to articulate voices in a crowded room, or with other background noises. It's a trade off, as you can use blockout type electronic muffs, etc, but you might handicap yourself in some other way.

[Samgotit]

Good article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=hstat4.section.6170

Important part:

Generally, for sound levels below about 140 dB, different temporal forms of sound, whether impulse (gunshot), impact (drop forge) or steady state (turbine), when specified with respect to their level and duration, produce the same hearing loss. This does not appear to follow at levels above 140 dB, where impulse noise creates more damage than would be predicted. This may imply that impulse noise above a certain critical level results in acoustic trauma from which the ear cannot recover.

A gun shot is an impulse noise. Many are above 140dB.

[BCRider]

I was all alone in the indoor range where I shoot a lot. I thought I'd try a round or two of .22LR from my pistol to see what it was like. It only took ONE round to make me realize that the muffs or plugs are an excelllent idea. Being a .22 it didn't leave me with my ears ringing or dull for any time but it sure did "sting" a bit and there was no need to try a second round without muffs.


But as mentioned many times range use is a FAR step away from home defense use. But given the huge difference between something like .38Spl and .357Mag I can certainly see the sense in using a lower "boomy" round than a super loud one. Expecting a loud report and being hit with the report from a .357 are sort of two different cases.

[Walkalong]

Were you able to have a conversation immediately/shortly after? Yes....although not quite at the normal level....

[rbernie]

I shot several pistols in enclosed rooms without hearing protection. The 357 Mag load made my ears ring for several days; 45ACP was loud but not dibilitating. The flash of both was noticable but not distracting.

It's mainly just LOUD.

[EnsignJimmy]

I have had occasion to fire primed cases inside from a revolver, and even a primer going off in a small room is surprisingly loud. Once, quite a while ago, I had to de-prime a .45 Colt case which had wound up being primed before being sized (this was back in the days when all I had was a Lee hand loader, and an RCBS priming tool.) So I took the case, put a cleaning patch into it, took my single-action into the bathroom, filled a bucket with water and pointed the revolver down at the bucket. The noise of the discharge was startlingly loud, and I wound up dripping wet for my trouble. Had that been a fully-loaded live round, I'm certain it would've set my ears to ringing. Simply having my earplugs work loose while at an indoor range lets the sound of firing got loud enough to be distracting . . . back when I started shooting. Not so much these days.

As for the flash? Not so bad. The indoor range I used to shoot at was, all things considered, quite dark. While some practice ammo, and most handloads would produce a bright yellow flash of light, it wasn't near bright enough to interfere with acquiring the target. Even a 4" .44 Magnum doesn't seem to produce enough flash to do that. Were the range only night-light bright, it'd be a different story, but much of the self-defense stuff I practice with and carry produces little flash.

[kwelz]

I had a ND years ago from a Beretta 92 and never even registered the shot. No ears ringing, nothing.

[Jubjub]

I fired an original Remington XP-100 in .221 Fireball while sitting on a couch, out the open window across the room, at a big stray dog that had been touring the neighborhood for several days, wreaking havoc. No vision worries, big flash, but daytime, ears rang for several hours. The muzzle blast knocked a picture off the wall, which broke the frame and glass when it hit the floor, and also killed an expensive desktop CB microphone in the room. The dog was drt with a high shoulder shot.

That was in my mid teens, over 30 years ago. I've always been pretty careful about hearing protection at the range, and for my age, I have better than average hearing.

[grimjaw]

Had an ND with a Beretta 21A and Stingers. Gun was pointed in a safe direction and luckily the bullet didn't manage to penetrate the top of a particle board desk, but the gun was only about a foot from my face when it went off (unsuppressed, of course). No blindness, but it was daylight in a well lit room. But deafness, yes, for a couple of minutes at least. Heard nothing much else than ringing ears and my own cursing for awhile.

I think I was too shocked to notice if it was painful, but it probably was. Absolutely not something I would want to repeat.

jm

ps. I'm anal enough about it now that I wear earplugs when driving on the interstate with the windows down. I already have some hearing loss that impacts my life, I don't want to make it worse if I can help it.

[Isher]

Jeez -

I can think of another, much older, scenario

Which leaves you blind and deaf and sterile too........

But I won't go there right now.

The point to me is, yeah,

Use protective gear when target shooting.

Makes sense.

If the **** goes down, you are

1.) Probably gonna want to have 1 in the tube

and

2.) Have no time to put on ear protective gear.


Anyone out there seen a CCW holster for a set of earmuffs?


isher

[tkopp]

I went to an outdoor range with my 12ga loaded up with slugs, forgot to don my muffs and didn't notice as I was the only one there. The lanes are partially separated by hard panels, which helps reflect the sound.

One shot and all I heard from both ears was ringing, loud with nothing else. Some seconds later the ringing began to subside, more in my left ear than my right ear. Ever play Call of Duty 2? They got the sound just right when a grenade goes off nearby. My right ear filled with fluid for weeks after, and still rings loudly months later. Volume is noticeably less on my right side, though either I'm compensating better for it or my hearing is gradually getting better. Likely as a result of less fluid in there.

Double up your protection. Plugs and some amplifying muffs so you can still hear the range master. Your hearing is precious.

[1911 guy]

9mm, .45acp and 5.56X45 for me. The handgun rounds didn't give any problems with flash, no real noticeable effect on vision. This wasn't in darkness, just dim light. I imagine darkness would have an entirely different effect. The effect on my ears was as if someone had reached over and stuffed cotton in my ears. I could still hear and carry on a conversation, but everything was a bit muffled for a short while. The M-16s on the other hand, were another story. Flash wasn't too terribly bad but did have a bit more effect on vision that the handguns. Not debillitating or anything, but noticeable. The sound, however, was awfull. A half dozen rifles dumping rapid fire in a small concrete room will make you sit up and take notice. Hearing was immediately and noticeably impaired. We all said "Huh?" a lot for a few days. The Automatic Rifleman in our squad dumped about half a magazine and it was an earsplitting sound, I had the distinct impression that if that had gone on much longer it might have made me nauseous. OTOH, a few rounds fired at intervals during training drills did not have the same effect. Very loud, but not in the same ballpark.

And yes, I have permenant and somewhat substantial hearing damage due to gunfire, aircraft and heavy equipment. I have mild tinnitus, am nearly deaf to certain tones and some sounds make my head split immediately.

[KevinAbbeyTech]

I shot a .40 S&W outdoors with no protection once, that was enough for me.

I don't want to know what it would have sounded like indoors!

[maroast]

I've shot off a 125 grain JHP .357 out of 2 1/8" snub nose indoors (not a large open space like an indoor range either).

No problems with the flash, it was bright out.


I think the percussive blast rendered my ears dead before they were hit by the supersonic crack....who know? But hearing did returned to totally normal shortly after with not much ringing.... I can probably thank all those metal concerts I attended throughout my life for 'conditioning' my ears....

[sterling7c]

May 6th, 2009, 11:04 AM #10
Vern Humphrey
Ringingin the ears for any time at all after exposure to noise is a sign of permanent damage.

Incorrect. I don't know if you're medically qualified or not (I don't think so otherwise you would have used the word symptom - that which the patient complains of - as opposed to sign - that which on examination can be seen) but I am and can say that ringing of the ears that has been caused by any loud impulse noise does not cause permanent damage to one's hearing. If the impulse noise was both loud enough and close enough to the ear the person would have (in layman's terms) ruptured ear drums with no ringing. Repetative high level DBa impulse noise (note - impulse noise) over a lengthy period of time can cause such damage in some individuals but not all that have been so exposed.

Please note that I wear muffs when at the range etcetera but I seriously doubt that anyone would have either the time or the concern to reach for them were they to suddenly find an unexpected BG in the house or bedroom. Adrenaline is a wonderful thing :)

[Vern Humphrey]

I am and can say that ringing of the ears that has been caused by any loud impulse noise does not cause permanent damage to one's hearing.
Then every audiologist in the Army is wrong, because that's what I was told at every annual audiogram.

[jmorris]

I am and can say that ringing of the ears that has been caused by any loud impulse noise does not cause permanent damage to one's hearing.


I am and can say the above is incorrect, false, a lie, untrue and wrong.

[jmorris]

The reason I know this is that 1 (yes a single yet very loud) impulse noise left me with a permanent 30db 3 kHz ringing in my ears.

[sterling7c]

jmorris said:

I am and can say the above is incorrect, false, a lie, untrue and wrong.

1. You may accuse me of anything you wish but not of telling a lie. Please do not be so objectionable.
2. You speak from a personal experience - I speak from many years of experience of of dealing with such instances.
3. You now have tinnitus which may be caused by such impulse noise as well as many other factors. The impulse may well have been a trigger. Does tinnitis run in your family - it did in mine so I know how you feel.

Vern said:

Then every audiologist in the Army is wrong, because that's what I was told at every annual audiogram.

Have you seen and been examined by every audiologist in the army?

Look guys, there are exceptions to every rule and in the case of medicine their are no exacting rules and that's one of the reasons why you will frequently get a different diagnosis from different doctors. If medicine was a black and white science (which it is definitely not) then every doctor would agree - but they don't. Would you call one a liar if his medical opinion and diagnosis differed from another - I sincerely hope not.

I will repeat my assertion in a modified form if you wish : it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that a single or even a repetative loud impulse noise that is BELOW the threshold of danger (a physiological and anatomical VARIABLE between individuals) will cause permanent hearing damage. Individual responses will vary just as they vary in their responses to treatments - e.g. a given drug regime will work for one patient and damage another (please look up idiopathic and iatrogenic). There are no absolutes. The OP asked for comments and I made mine based not just upon my own personal experience but that of many other people. I'm sorry that your experiences have been different.

[Vern Humphrey]

Have you seen and been examined by every audiologist in the army?
In 22 years service, plus treatment for wounds, I saw a bunch.

[jad0110]

I did have an opportunity to fire both a snub nose 38 and a 1911 45ACP in a near totally dark room (indoor range) about a year ago.

I was wearing hearing protection, so that isn't what my observations are about.

The flash, even in almost total darkness, wasn't nearly as bad as I was expecting. I tried several different loads in the snubby, including Speer's 135 grain GoldDot +P, which supposedly has less muzzle flash than other 38s. This is true when compared to the 158 grain FBI load, but honestly the difference was pretty insignificant. The 5" 45 had a tad less flash still, but again it really wasn't enough to be concerned with. Had I not known which gun/load combo was being fired, I probably could not have told the difference.

Now, a short barrel 357 or 44 Mag? I dunno, that might be a different story.

[BhmBill]

ND in my bedroom many years ago.

Ruger p89 9mm, was trying to figure out why it wouldn't load a particular type of ammo. Racked slide... and...

BOOOM


... I shot my dresser. I was kind of in shock... hard to explain.... I wasn't panicking, I wasn't hurt, and I didn't know what just happened. I did not hear the round go off, but was deaf for about 25 - 30 mins afterwards. The bedroom was maybe 120q ft, on the small side. Doors closed, windows closed, blast was pretty well contained. Parents came in, but I had my back to the door and was just sitting there is a concussive state so I didn't see, I guess they kept asking me what happened, if I was okay, etc etc, and after asking several times, they finally grabbed me and yelled at me "WHAT HAPPENED?", I still couldn't hear them and I guess I yelled at them "I THINK MY GUN WENT OFF". Of course, there hearing was fine, then they yelled at me to stop yelling.

So... I don't remember muzzle flash, I certainly wasn't blinded. I don't remember the sound, I was deaf for about 25 - 30 mins, no ringing, nothing, dead silent for atleast 20 mins. I didn't feel any recoil. I was in shock, similar to having a concussion, you have the "*** IS GOING ON" thing happening. Had it been a code red situation and had the adrenaline was pumping before the shot, i'm positive I could of kept shooting without problem.

I didn't touch a gun for 3 or 4 months.

No shotgun shell, no .38spl, no .45, no rifle round i've ever shot compared to that 9mm. .357 out of a snubnose with inadequate hearing protection is the only thing i've shot that came close to that.

No more ND's from that day, much safer now because of it by learning from what I did wrong, and my bedroom smelled very good for several days.

I still recommend not wearing ear protection when in a home defense situation, being able to hear the intruder, in my opinion, would be much more beneficial than being afraid of potentially having ringing in your ears for a couple minutes.

I can't stress following the 4 rules to people nowadays.

[lvcat2004]

I have shot many a times in indoor range, and once, only once, I shot my 9mm to see how loud, and it was loud to a point that my ears rang for a few hours. I would not recommend doing it repeatedly.

I have taken a night shooting class and fired off 200+ rounds at night with 9mm. It was not blinding. Judicious use of white light is more important than worrying about muzzle flash.

[sterling7c]

I'm sorry to hear that Vern but I truly thank you for your service. I do (believe it or not) know what it feels like to 'be there'.

As for the other post: I don't mind being labelled wrong but I do not take kindly to being called a liar - not that it was you who did that. Sorry that I included your quote in the same post.

[Vern Humphrey]

No one should call you a liar.

However, there is clearly serious opinion in the medical profession that ringing in the ears is a sign of permanant hearing damage.

[Iggy]

He fired a .357 Mag, I fired a .41 Mag in a basement room. He missed. I don't remember any flash from my gun but I do remember seeing his.

Noise was loud and muzzle blast was intense.

That, and many years of shooting rifles, muzzle loaders without proper protection has left me with tinnitus for over 30 years.

My hearing is still good, but I sleep with the TV on to drown out the high pitched ringing in my ears.

[BhmBill]

My hearing is still good, but I sleep with the TV on to drown out the high pitched ringing in my ears.

+1.

While my tinnitus is not from noise exposure, I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm still sensitive to noise. Sometimes I'll be shooting without hearing protection (yeah yeah yeah) with a .22 or some other less-than-loud round, and even though my ears are always ringing, the pops and bangs from the guns are a nice break from the constant ringing.

Btw, my tinnitus is from stage IV TMJ.

[theken206]

12 guage 00buck 2 3/4 inch

Were you blinded by the flash? no
Were your ears ringing if you did not have ear protection? not as bad as I would have though
Are you deaf now? nope still have good hearing
Could you continue to shoot if you had to? indeed

[sterling7c]

Thanks for that Vern.

However, there is clearly serious opinion in the medical profession that ringing in the ears is a sign of permanant hearing damage.

To end on a note of humor : if all doctors agreed with each other they'd soon go broke and it's kind of like Libs and Dems both being absolutely right about absulutely everything :)

[The Lone Haranguer]

I fired a Winchester Silvertip .45 ACP inside the cab of a pickup truck, windows up. :uhoh::banghead: There was little muzzle flash and the "boom" report, although it certainly startled me, only caused mild hearing loss with no pain for a few minutes.

[jmorris]

Quote:
I am and can say that ringing of the ears that has been caused by any loud impulse noise does not cause permanent damage to one's hearing.

I am and can say the above is incorrect, false, a lie, untrue and wrong.
__________________

I didn’t bother to look up the author of the statement so I am sorry if you took offence. The quoted statement said “…any loud impulse noise does not cause permanent damage to one’s hearing.” That is untrue, incorrect, false, wrong and a lie, they all mean the same thing some are just not as PC as others.

My hearing damage is not a result of gunfire but the statement above says “any”.

[Zach S]

Case 1: My ND. Short version, I dropped my .45, and like an idiot, I caught it. And I learned to let them fall. The flash was not bad, I could still see fine. A little ring, but I could still here normal conversation. No injuries except to a Q logic box and rockford fosgate subwoofer, that I still own as a reminder.

Test 1: Mossberg 590, load was Federal LE 132 or 133. Flash didnt bother me. Dialtone did. Couldnt hear a darn thing for a day or two. Not even my hot rod Fairmont (that would set off alarms when I punched it).

Test 2: RRA AR15. Load was of the TAP FPD variety, unkown weight. It was a 1:9 bbl, so it wasnt heavy. Flash wasnt as bad as I thought it would be with the A2 FH. Instant dialtone, however I could still hear. Not that great, but I could still hear what was around me.

Odd observation: With doubled hearing protection indoors, the short "pop" of the AR bothers me more than the longer "boom" of the shotgun. However, without ears, its the exact opposite.

Disclaimer: AR and shotgun were fired at night in a house that was going to be demolilshed, with the owner's permission, and after notifying LE.

Disclaimer II: I agree that one should always wear eyes and ears while shooting, however that's not likely to be an option in a defensive shoot, and one should know what to expect.

Disclaimer III: These tests were not scientific in the least. They were in the same room, and there was about a week bewteen the tests. My ND was several months before and in a similar sized room, during the day but with blackout curtains.

Discaimer IV: No animal or other people were harmed during these instances. My only injuries were a couple dialtones and a hit to my pride.

[Joe Demko]

I've fired a .357 magnum and a 9mm indoors. In both cases the report seemed oddly muffled and did not cause my ears to ring. The flash was visible, but not blinding. I think the wall to wall carpeting, upholstered furniture, and draperies may be the reason for the unexpectedly low noise level.
I also fired a .300 Savage from inside an enclosed sun porch. No worse than firing the same gun in the woods.

[Brian Dale]

Many years ago, I fired a .22LR snub nosed revolver out through the open window of a Chevy Suburban (in a safe direction, out in the desert). My Dad and two other people were also in the vehicle. None of us were wearing hearing protection. Mid-afternoon; muzzle flash not evident.

I had ringing in my ears for several minutes, but my hearing was not too far impaired to hear every word that my Dad had to say to me on the topic of whether that had been a good idea or not.

[GRIZ22]

I have fired quite a few times in low light without ear protection. My answers to your questions are:

Were you blinded by the flash?

It depends. Yes with a full bore 357 from a 4" barrel or 12 ga from a 14" barrel. No from a 45 acp, 9mm Silvertip or subsonic load, M4, M16, M4, M14, or M60. Slighty to not at all with 38 loads depending (+P more flash).

Were your ears ringing if you did not have ear protection?

Didn't really notice at time of shooting but ears were ringing afterward. More on this in next answer.

Are you deaf now?

I am not deaf but have about 30% hearing loss in left ear and 60% in right ear and tinnitus. This is not all a result of shooting outdoors or indoors in confined spaces without hearing protection. Having been on artillery crews shooting thousands of 105mm, 8", and 175mm rds, my hearing loss is more likely due to this than small arms. There were ear plugs around but at the time if you were the section chief or gunner you had to hear fire direction control over a field phone and couldn't use hearing protection.

Yes it will give you permanent hearing loss but you'd have to shoot a lot to become deaf.

This is not addressing audio exclusion which happens during stress.

Could you continue to shoot if you had to?

Yes and I did. However I think if you were not prepared to deal with the noise and flash it could confuse you for a bit of time.

[Albatross]

My parents bought me half of a 1911 (I bought the other half) when I turned 16. I drove out to the gun range (which is covered) and when I got out there I discovered I had forgotten hearing protection. I decided it couldn't be that loud:

I pulled the trigger once and my ears rang for the better part of three days. My head hurt for a few hours afterwards too. I'd hate to think about what it'd do inside a car or a room.

[searcher451]

There is ample evidence, both anecdotal and supported, to indicate that if you do not take the common-sense steps that most every shooter knows and understands, the long-term effects of shooting firearms without adequate protection will cause moderate to significant hearing loss over time. There's also ample evidence to indicate that the older you get, the worse your hearing will become, regardless of whether you are out at the range every day, banging away with a .308 or a .45 or a 9mm or whatever.

Why anyone would want to play roulette with their ears is beyond me, but I see people at the range all the time who either don't seem to know or don't care, leaving both their ears and eyes uncovered. Our range officers are generally pretty good about nicely telling them to cover up, but I've seen hostile reactions as a reward for these reminders. You can lead a horse's butt to water, I guess, but you can't necessarily make it wear ear or eye protection. As they say these days, go figger.

[Joe Demko]

As I understood the OP, this was not about long term hearing loss. It was about whether one was deafened and/or blinded on the spot and unable to stay in the fight.

[mdThanatos]

without hearing protection at my local range that has a canopy I get a ringing in my ears from my mosin and mauser. Inside I got ringing from my XD, can I still hear yes, i have damage from ear infections so I am already at reduced capacity so i can't tell if there has been permanent damage. Blinded by the flash when indoors, not even close.

[scf4003]

I had the displeasure of firing a 357 in my basement last November without hearing protection. I was immediately deafened completely for about 4 hours with some hearing gradually returning in the next few weeks. I now have severe tinnitus and most sounds and conversations are garbled.

I've had 3 office visits with an audiologist and have been told nothing can be done about the tinnitus but a trial with hearing aids tended to clean up normal conversation. I haven't decided if I'm ready to go the hearing aid route yet.

Granted, my hearing was somewhat impaired after 40 years of playing in a rock band, but nothing can compare to the severity of hearing loss I experienced from the blast a 125 gr JHP inside a closed room.

I wish I could take that split second back when I touched that round off. I hope no one else ever experiences severe tinnitus as bad as mine is ... my advice, don't EVER fire a 357 inside!

[BullfrogKen]

Were you blinded by the flash?
No, not even a little. In fact, in total darkness it lit up the target and I could see it better.

Were your ears ringing if you did not have ear protection?
Yes. But my ears ring all the time. I have tens of thousands of machinegun rounds to thank for that.

Are you deaf now?
Huh? :D

Seriously, No.

Could you continue to shoot if you had to?
Yes. And see, and even held conversations, too.

[sm]

Brian William's original post asked:

I would like only those who have actually fired off a handgun inside to tell us what it was like,

Were you blinded by the flash?
No.

Were your ears ringing if you did not have ear protection?
No ringing, no hearing protection.

Are you deaf now?
No.

Could you continue to shoot if you had to?
etc

Yes, I was able to continue shooting.
Threats stopped.

[jcs77]

2" M60 indoors
.38 spl 158gr LSWC

I couldn't hear a thing for 10-15 seconds and then everything sounded muffled. Right after the shot, I was yelling and couldn't hear myself. Didn't notice any flash. Definitely suffered permanent hearing loss, mostly in my right ear. Not deaf though.

[Vern Humphrey]

Let me offer you some free advice (worth every penny.) Don't repeat that experiment.

I can't tell you how I abused my ears -- firing a .357 without ear plugs, running over an anti-tank mine, and so on.

[cyclopsshooter]

i had an AD with a 1911 45 a few years back... im not one to keep a chamber loaded, even when carrying... but somehow it happened.
i was getting ready to clean it at my desk, dropped the mag, the leaned back in my chair and raised my arms to up for a stretch and BANG- right next to my head. my hearing was impaired for a few hours (numb) but had no other after affects aside from being absolutely mortified... 230 ball went through my window, through the eve... only God knows where it went from there. had it been a revolver i probably would have singed the side of my face

[Holgersen]

I'll take my wack.

Hearing damage yes. Blindness no.

I'm sure the muzzle flash is dependent on the caliber, type of ammo and type of firearm. I'm sure the muzzle flash from a .357 mag out of a snubbie is going to be more than a sub-sonic .22 out of a rifle.

Learned my lesson with the hearing protection. I've been deaf for half a day before because I didn't put my ear plugs in well enough.

Live and learn. Unfortunatly some lessons have permanent consequences. My hearing tests are proof of that. :(

[Lookn4Brass]

My experience is that a .38 spl gun shot from a snubnose in a 10X10 room is pretty bad, and a bit dis-orienting. A .45 in a large room ain't great either, if you have sensitive ears like mine. No, it wouldn't stop me from finishing a gunfight, though. As for using an AR-15 or M4 indoors, I think that's pretty dumb. I would hate to even try that. The sonic blast would screw somebody up pretty bad, I think. I remember trying shooting a cylinder full of .44 Magnums in a S&W with 8" barrel outdoors without earplugs,and getting physically ill for a whole day, when I was about 15 yrs. old. I'm very thankful that most of the time I used hearing protection as a kid, 'cause I used to shoot more ammo in one year than most folks do in a lifetime: .22LR, 9mm, .45acp, and 20 gauge shotgun shells, constantly.;)