[Norton]

I was browsing around looking at some conservative type web sites last night and came across the John Birch Society web site. I'd heard of them in the past but had never done a further research into it.

Thematerial on their site seems to be in line with many of the things that we discuss here.

Anyone have any experience or comments regarding the John Birch Society?

[Balog]

Well, I know they are very anti-UN :) . Haven't seen much of their stuff, though.

[Joe Demko]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3755&highlight=John+Birch

[Sean Smith]

Famously nutty conspiracy fruitcakes. Anti-semetic nutjobs. Pseudo-Nazi wierdos with a wash and a shave to look respectable, and a wholesome platform for public consumption.

[AnklePocket]

I have a friend who's very active member. He's a little nuts, I think. His views are too far out there for even me to consider so I can't imagine what many think when he starts spewing. Nice guy, but the JBS is of no interest to me. I could be wrong, though, of course.

[Skunkabilly]

I'm a faithful follower of brother John Birch, and I belong to the Antioch baptist church...

I dont' even got a garage, you can call home and ask my wife!

I do like their stance on the UN though.

[Yanus]

If I remember correctly, wasn't "John Birch" an American G.I. killed in the Korean war by the communists? They are a VERY right wing group. Just a little to the right of Genghis Khan..............

"I'm a loyal follower of brother John Birch, and I belong to the Antioch Baptist Church and I don't even own a garage... You can call home and
ask my wife!" Charlie Daniels "Uneasy Rider" :D

Yanus

[Ian]

The last time I was around a bunch of JBS members, they were discussing the impending Chinese military invasion of California... :uhoh:

[KMKeller]

Sean, Interesting analysis. I belong to JBS and have seen none of what has been mentioned here. And I'm Jewish.

[Bill Hook]

The last time I was around a bunch of JBS members, they were discussing the impending Chinese military invasion of California...

Why invade when they could just buy our former president, which they did?

[Balog]

On both this thread and the one Golgo posted, I've yet to see anyone with any evidence to think that they are off. I know that they have documentation for their claims (their claims that I have read anyway), while those criticizing them have none. It reminds me of the comment "All those gun nuts I've met are crazy, violent hicks." Ad hominen attacks and strawmen do nothing for me.

Edit: for grammar

[Norton]

Yikes.....after looking at that old thread from January, I feel like I just walked in to a minefield.

I guess it's like a lot of organizations, there's always two faces to be contended with....hmmm, sort of reminds me of the NRA.:rolleyes:

Being here in MD, it's hard to find like minded individuals to discuss politics with. If you come off as being anything other than a dyed-in-the-wool leftist democrat people think that you are a right wing whacko (hey, maybe I am!:D )

This was all precipitated by a discussion that some of my students were having in class the other day. I was suprised to overhear that these guys were predominantly conservative in their views (though they couldn't get past universal health care:banghead: ).

One of the kids asked me about my politics, which I politely refused to go into at first. After being pressed, I told them that I was somewhere "to the right of Ghengis Khan" on many things....but wouldn't go into details.

It got me into thinking that I really wasn't focused on my overall stance on political issues. I feel very piece meal on individual issues, but I don't have a firm grasp on how they inter-relate to one another.

I guess that's what lead me to look at JBS in the first place.....maybe not for me after all.....

[geegee]

I'm a faithful follower of brother John Birch, and I belong to the Antioch baptist church...
Exactly! :D I can't even hear the words "John Birch Society" without having that song play in my head for the rest of the day.

On a more serious note, I do remember a guy from JBS trying to recruit me when I lived in Houston. My memory of him was not as pleasant as the song. I distinctly remember that he always had that white spittle around his mouth when he started talking about the U.N. and got himself all worked up. :scrutiny: Yucchhh. geegee

[gun-fucious]

Gale McMillan
Senior Member

Registered: 09-10-1999
Location:
Posts: 411

Most of the members won't remember the mid 50s. back in those days the Minuteman organization was in full swing and I was in the northern California area and was pretty involved with friends who were followers of the John Birch society and the minute men. I didn't have any money to bury so I didn't participate in the gun hoarding that was going on but did help friends bury hundreds of rifles, ammo and components. It was pretty easy to do when you could buy Springfields, Enfield both P14 and p17s for 17 dollars each And cheaper in volume. Powder was 45 dollars for a 50 gallon barrel and they through in 10,000 primers for free. I know where there is an abandoned mining claim that has or I should say had several hundred Lee Enfields, 50 gallon drums of powder and cases of 303 ammo cemented into a mine shaft and covered over with several yards of earth. I would not be surprised that the stash is still intact since the people who owned it were doctors and lawyers and it was more work to recover it than it was worth in dollars. I am sure that in the event that things go the way a lot of people believe there will be a lot of shovels limbered up. People forget that today's problems have been with us for years the only thing different is the enemy! In those days it was communism and today it is our liberal left wing government.


http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34572

[Balog]

On a more serious note, I do remember a guy from JBS trying to recruit me when I lived in Houston. My memory of him was not as pleasant as the song.

Wow, a slanderous song and one odd person. That must mean they're all crazy! Oh, and at the last gun show I went to I met a NRA member who was also a white supremacist. Guess that means Moore was right about their links to the KKK, huh?:rolleyes:

[Dilettante]

The JBS peaked sometime in the 1950s. They're not much of a factor in politics today.

They are not racist or Nazis. They are interested in what you might call "conspiracy theories" where Eisenhower was a Communist, fluoride in the water was a stepping stone to putting drugs in the water, the Sino-Soviet split was phony, and so was the fall of the USSR (to get us off our guard).

[Art Eatman]

The problem I saw in the JBS activist days of the 1950s/1960s was their attitude that if you did not totally buy into the entire argument, you had to be some kind of Commie ratfink.

Oh, as a for instance, I think we'd maybe be better off were we out of the UN, and it headquartered elsewhere. However, so long as our government believes the UN is more useful than detrimental, we're in and will stay in. I won't lose any sleep over it. But, that doesn't mean that I or the government are ratfink Commies...

:), Art

[Balog]

Neville Chamberlain wasn't a Nazi. Doesn't mean he wasn't helping their cause. I don't think Al Gore is a "communist" per se, but he took money from and sold sensitive technology to, the ChiComs. The UN is an alliance with the Communists (and a variety of terrorist states). Perhaps they mean "communist" not in the sense of directly being a party member, but of aiding and allying ourselves with them.

[0007]

Go on line and check out their magazine - The New American(?). I don't necessarily agree with all their ideas, but the mag often has some articles that make for interesting reading. One should strive to gather ideas from all sides of an argument. Otherwise you will be only half-armed.

[Zundfolge]

Famously nutty conspiracy fruitcakes. Anti-semetic nutjobs. Pseudo-Nazi wierdos with a wash and a shave to look respectable, and a wholesome platform for public consumption.

Yep that's pretty much the definition given to us by the DNC, the leftist media and Michael Moore fans :rolleyes:

So I guess you won't be joining that organization that wants evil assault baby killing machines in every 12yr olds hands called the NRA :rolleyes:

[feedthehogs]

The last time I was around a bunch of JBS members, they were discussing the impending Chinese military invasion of California...

One can hope can't they?

They are undercover as Chinese resturants and dry cleaning shops waiting for the signal to throw off their chains of American freedom and grab the AK and start shooting.

[geegee]

Wow, a slanderous song and one odd person. That must mean they're all crazy! Oh, and at the last gun show I went to I met a NRA member who was also a white supremacist. Guess that means Moore was right about their links to the KKK, huh?
I don't make that assertion at all. I'm simply answering the original question that began this thread, whether "anyone had any experience or comments regarding the JBS?" I have had some experience with them and I recounted it (the song is satirical, and just plain funny).

I'll continue to stick with my original opinion (in the previously referenced thread), that after you get into enough conversations with Birchers you'll soon find yourself loaded up with every type of conspiracy book and pamphlet ever printed. I've read enough about the U.N., The Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, ad nauseum that I feel pretty confident in making that statement. There's no doubt these groups have a membership list of people that share a like-minded philosophy, as far as things like gun control and national sovereignty go. They're socialists! I don't like what they represent, or have to say or think, and like it less that these folks wield considerable influence in their respective fields (primarily government and media), but the obsessive conspiratorialist worldview required by the Birchers is a bit much for me.

I guess I tend to subscribe to a type of "greatest secret" theory: at some point, no matter how great the secret, no matter how deep the conspiracy, no matter much influence is maintained by members of the "inner circle," at the end of the day they're all human beings, and at some point the secret has to slip out. Not neccessarily by a lot of members, but over the years at least one or two.

Take Freemasons for example (a favorite target of the JBS, and one group I'm not favorably disposed toward). The secretive nature of their ceremonies, oaths, signs, etc. just aren't all that secret. Why? Because enough people have come out of Masonry to talk about what all these things mean and how they're performed. I find it hard to believe that at some point the same thing wouldn't happen with all the major One World Order groups previously mentioned. That doesn't mean I'll discount what they stand for, nor does it mean I'll summarily dismiss them out of hand. It just means that I'm not about to spend all my waking time looking for the latest U.N. base in a deserted part of West Texas, or black helicopters hovering overhead. geegee

[rock jock]

Good reply, geegee. I agree with you on conspiracies. They seldom work, and then only with a very small number of people involved. Even the 9/11 attacks involved less than a handfull of folks who knew what was going on.

[NIGHTWATCH]

Im actually going to a meeting at the "GreenHouse Cafe" on the 21st in Bay Ridge Brooklyn. :D A film debut on U.N. efforts to undermine American tradition and identity. Sounds good enough for me.

[Gordon]

I don't hang on this forum much anymore. Early on I was chastized on more than one occasion for saying , in the incorrect way, that these people would be better off teaching youth how to shoot, how to avoid being set up by the Gubbamint and having them read Col Von Dach's (of the Swiss Army) book: "Total Resistance!". Too much (true ) rhetoric for this old patriot!:cool:

[roscoe]

I know where there is an abandoned mining claim that has or I should say had several hundred Lee Enfields, 50 gallon drums of powder and cases of 303 ammo cemented into a mine shaft and covered over with several yards of earth.

I wish they would sell a few of those old rifles - I want one of each. I would be more than happy to give them back their $17.00 each.

[jimpeel]

Simply get a copy of "None dare call it conspiracy". You should be able to find 40-50 copies at any used book store. That is their mainstay tome that has been reprinted and revised to the point that it is now twice as thick as the original book. It has never been a hardcover to my knowledge.

As to dealings with them:

They would hand out pamphlets at the mall. One asked me if I knew about the Communists in America and I said" You mean those guys who are flouridating our water and taking prayer out of the schools?"

He didn't like that.

That was back in the early seventies.

I have now found that, in general, they have been right all along on the Communism issue.

The conspiracy theories can be a bit much; but the New American had a hit piece on black helicopters that placed them way above that fray. As conspiracy theories go, black helicopters are the Queen Mum.

They were not kind to Mark Koernke ("Mark from Michigan") or Linda Thompson on this issue. I have heard them both speak on various issues, including black helicopters, and, although they come off like they are knowledgeable, they are kooks.

I have reproduced the article here. The original article may be found at: http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1994/vo10no22.htm#About%20Those%20Black%20Helicopters

The full article "Fact and Fiction" (excellent I might add) which contains the portion on black helicopters is a piece that debunks many Patriot Myths. It may be read at: http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1994/vo10no22.htm

It will also explain that part about FINCEN.

About Those Black Helicopters
by William F. Jasper

In the rumor galaxy, "black helicopters" are the supernovas. If you have not heard hair-curling accounts of mysterious solid-black, unmarked helicopters hovering menacingly over your city or assaulting some patriot's house, you almost certainly have not been listening to many radio talk shows or reading conservative newsletters. If, however, you have been even a casual peruser of various "patriotic papers" and like-minded radio programs, you will know that these aircraft play a prominent role in much of the current hysteria.

Two notable patriot personages, Mark Koernke ("Mark from Michigan") and Linda Thompson, appear to have played the primary roles in popularizing this scare. Through their lecture tours, video programs, and radio talk-show appearances, they have stoked the fires of panic and paranoia. Ms. Thompson, who was the subject of a profile by Robert W. Lee in the September 19th issue of THE NEW AMERICAN, rose to prominence in the wake of the Waco tragedy. However, her ill-conceived call to insurrection and an armed march on Washington, and her self-appointed grandiose role as "Acting Adjutant General, Unorganized Militia of the United States of America," appear to have cost her much of her earlier support.

"Mark From Michigan"

The popularity of "Mark from Michigan," however, appears unabated. Identifying himself only as "a former military intelligence officer," he claims to be fighting to stop the onrushing new world order police state -- a praiseworthy objective, to be sure (and one that we share). But his message seems more inclined to produce paranoia, paralysis, and despair than robust and effective resistance. On his video, America in Peril, "Mark" tells his audience that vast numbers of black helicopters -- "more than you can count" -can be seen regularly filling the skies over Michigan. These, he claims, are the vehicles which will be (and are being) used by UN-FINCEN-FEMA-MJTF forces to invade our communities and to haul us off to concentration camps. He is entitled to his opinion, of course, and to his own pet "end-times" scenario, but he should realize that knowledgeable patriots will not automatically accept as gospel his every riveting word solely on the authority of his alleged past as an "intelligence" analyst.

Before venturing further, we must digress; we can almost sense the reaction of some readers (since we have already experienced it with telephone callers): "Are you trying to tell me that I didn't see that black helicopter that was only 40 feet above my house?" Not at all. We are not questioning the reality of these aircraft. We have received acknowledgment of their existence by responsible government officials and have many confirmed sightings of the choppers (parked on the ground and in flight) by extremely reliable witnesses. But the appearance in the skies of a single black UH-1 Huey or even a whole squadron of AH-64 Apaches does not validate "Mark's" frightening thesis. Not by a long shot. That much should be evident.

First of all, is there another reasonable explanation for these craft? There appear to be many. Although an all-black paint scheme is not the most common one for helicopters, it apparently is used by a number of city, state, and federal law enforcement agencies as well as by some military units. One of the many places our research led us to was Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, home to the U.S. Army Special Forces. Army spokesperson Carol Jones confirmed that all of the helicopters of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment -- nicknamed the "Nightstalkers" and stationed at Ft. Campbell, Kentucky -- are indeed black. She explained that her office has handled a number of calls "on the East coast here where people think they are seeing some of our helicopters, but we check and they're not ours; they actually belong to local police departments or other law enforcement agencies."

Fort Rucker, Alabama is the Army's helicopter training center. Major Endicott, spokesman for the base, told THE NEW AMERICAN, "I've never seen any helicopters painted black," but noted that the Army paints many of its choppers in very dark shades of brown or olive green that often will look black unless you are very close and have very good light. Which comports with the testimony of many servicemen with whom we talked -- and with several of our witnesses who reported that at first sight they were positive the helicopters they had seen were solid black (like those described by "Mark"), but when they got within a few yards or a few feet of them they could see that they were indeed Army green or brown. Moreover, as many veterans told us, and as one can easily confirm for oneself, most helicopters will appear to be black to an observer on the ground looking up at a chopper silhouetted against the sky. And if it is a cloudy day, near dusk or after dark, many choppers will appear to be black even if they have another paint scheme.

Is the color scheme of helicopters that important and worth belaboring? Not in and of itself; but an understanding of it does help explain why so many alarmed citizens have reported seeing these "FINCEN" aircraft. Undoubtedly, many of these witnesses are seeing local police, medical, fire, news, or military choppers painted "FINCEN" black due to visibility factors and "Mark's" power of suggestion.

The central fact to keep in mind is that neither "Mark," nor Linda Thompson, nor any of the other alarmists we are aware of, has produced a shred of credible documentation to substantiate their shocking tales. They appear to be gambling that the legitimate outrage and apprehension caused by Waco and the accelerating police-state agenda of the Clinton Administration can be counted on to cause most Americans to suspend all exercise of discernment and the standard rules of evidence as long as the tale-bearer bashes Clinton, blasts the feds, brandishes the Constitution, and swears to "go down shooting."

[Balog]

I don't make that assertion at all.
the obsessive conspiratorialist worldview required by the Birchers is a bit much for me.

So you're not saying they're all crazy, just that you are "required" to have an "obsessive conspiratorialist worldview." My mistake:rolleyes:

I guess I tend to subscribe to a type of "greatest secret" theory: at some point, no matter how great the secret, no matter how deep the conspiracy, no matter much influence is maintained by members of the "inner circle," at the end of the day they're all human beings, and at some point the secret has to slip out. Not neccessarily by a lot of members, but over the years at least one or two.


Wouldn't that actually mean that you should be listening to them? You seem to be saying "If a conspiracy existed, someone would find out." So why do you reject people who say they've found out about it? If it's inevitable that someone should find out, why couldn't it be them?

And from the one booklet of theirs I have read, what they are pointing out isn't a secret. It's simply not reported on by the normal media outlets. For example, they point out documented, verifiable quotes from the founders and chief members of a pair of organizations. These quotes explicitly state that the purpose of these organizations is to help establish a singular world governing body. They then point out that RR and every POTUS since him have been members of these organizations. Where is the "obsessive conspiratorialist worldview" in saying that means something significant? If the POTUS was a member of HCI and VPC, you'd find that a significant fact, right? And if three or four Presidents in a row were members of these same 2 orgs, even tho' they held diametrically oposite viewpoints, that would be significant right?

[geegee]

Balog: Here's the essence of it. If you want to accept the JBS point of view, go ahead. All I'm saying is that while I was never a member, at one point I really bought into their message. I've read all their books, pamphlets, etc., and while they are admittedly fascinating, they always left me with more questions than answers.

Get into a protracted conversation with a Bircher and at some point you'll have to either a. Prove a negative, e.g. "If the mainstream media has members involved in the CFR, Tri-Lateralists, Bilderbergers, etc. and they won't report what they're really up to, isn't that proof enough that they are in fact up to something?" How the heck do you prove a negative like that? or b. Admit that if you don't (or won't) accept what the Birchers say, then it just may be that you are involved in the conspiracy, or at least are someone who shouldn't be trusted. "How come you won't come to our meetings...have a problem with saying the Pledge of Allegiance to The Flag?" Sheeesh.

For the record: Id like to see the U.S. out of the U.N., or at least the U.N. out of the U.S., I do not have a real good explanation for all the one-world quotes attributed to all the people quoted in their literature, I can't explain why wealthy industrialists (the Rockefellers) espouse blatantly socialist views, and the Skull & Bones members and the Masons as far as I'm concerned are just silly (but that's just me!). Plenty of the targets of the ire of the JBS have earned it. I'm just not willing to go back down that road again. geegee

[Sean Smith]

Sean, Interesting analysis. I belong to JBS and have seen none of what has been mentioned here. And I'm Jewish.

More of an observation based on seeing some of 'em hand out copies of Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[KMKeller]

More of an observation based on seeing some of 'em hand out copies of Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
Thankfully, I've not run into any of this bunch. The folks I know are very even keeled activists who essentially sweat the same issues we do. Very active in writing letters to our congressmen and congresswomen and the like.

[HBK]

What was the name of the song?

[geegee]

I yield to Skunk on this one. I used to have the tape in my car, but must have pitched it. Cmon man, let's have that name! :D :confused: geegee

[jimpeel]

Michael Brown wrote the lyrics for "The John Birch Society" for the Chad Mitchell Trio.

[Sergeant Bob]

HBK What was the name of the song?
Are you talking about "Uneasy Rider" by Charlie Daniels? As previously noted by Yanus "I'm a loyal follower of brother John Birch, and I belong to the Antioch Baptist Church and I don't even own a garage... You can call home and ask my wife!" Charlie Daniels "Uneasy Rider"

[kentucky bucky]

Eight out of ten things that they might say to you, you would probably find agreeable, but then they get to the meat of their beliefs, and their crediblility goes out the window. Some of the stuff they spew is OFF THE CHARTS!!!:scrutiny:

[Drjones]

From their homepage:


Founded in 1958, The John Birch Society is a membership-based organization dedicated to restoring and preserving freedom under the United States Constitution. Members come from all walks of life and are active throughout the 50 states as part of local chapters.

United by a sense of duty and a strong belief in personal freedom and limited government, members of The John Birch Society have educated millions of Americans on the proper role of government. By using educational and publicity tools, members have played a pivotal role in halting dangerous legislation and federal policies which threaten America’s independence.

We invite all Americans to explore our website, learn more about The John Birch Society, and consider joining with us in our mission to achieve: "Less Government, More Responsibility, and – With God’s Help – a Better World."


Very interesting.

I'd say they warrant a closer look.

[Drjones]

. Some of the stuff they spew is OFF THE CHARTS!!!


Like what?