Wife-Shotgun-Storage argument


May 8, 2009, 10:13 PM
It's probably not a surprise, I'm in the Navy. I go back to sea duty this year and will be gone quite frequently. I want to get an 870 youth 20ga for her for several reasons, but that's not the subject here. It's how I want to store it, and how she wants to store it. She wants a gun safe for the bedroom. I want it to be readily accessible, no fumbling with combination's at 2:30 in the morning. You should know that we have two children, 4 and 6. I want to hang the gun on the inside of our wide closet at the top, out of sight and no way the kids could get to it even if they knew it was there.

What she fails to see, at least in my opinion, is:
1. She is a sound sleeper and doesn't have time on her side.
2. Is groggy when she wakes up, and won't quite realize what's going on, time again.
3. The panic she'll be faced with when she does realize what's going on, then having to deal with the safe.
4. She does not have the best memory in the world, the gun safe could sit there for months on end never being opened, then she has to remember combinations in split seconds.

Add all these up, and I don't feel comfortable at all about the safety of my family. I know they make finger print entry safes, but I still don't like the idea of having to fumble with any safes for a defense weapon.

Do any of you have stories where locked up firearms ended badly in a defense situation?

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May 8, 2009, 10:19 PM
OK, she just read this and said "Ewww, finger print entry safes, that's be quick"

Anybody had any experiences with these?

Zach S
May 8, 2009, 10:23 PM
Not first hand. An old girlfriend's mother told me a somewhat funny story once.

She was woke up by the sound of breaking glass. She got her little sentry firebox and was still fumbling with the keys when her bedroom door opened.

She said he must have thought no one was home (she didnt have a car), he seemed a little surpised to see her there. She took advantage of this, and asked him to leave by whacking him upside the head a few times with that little firebox, and the .38 she had inside it.

He was in such a hurry to leave he ran through the screen door.

Ed Ames
May 8, 2009, 10:25 PM
Kids can and will get into anything.

There are some "cuff" style gun racks designed for law enforcement use.


Something like that in the closet might be "best of both worlds"... it can be very quick to access but it secures the gun better than "up and out of sight".

May 8, 2009, 10:29 PM
Could she be taught to use a speed-feed bracket arrangement?That way she could quickly access the crowd pleaser,and STILL not have frighteners on RE your young children and a loaded shotgun.
Of course,I would PROBABLY tell you to consider a 4 inch revolver,and /or a carbine:MOst of the women in my life found that they LIKED shooting them at the range after some gradual,gentle persuasion.
I do not know enough about the fingerprint safes,but I am guessing they are electronic...if that is the case ;could they still be accessed in the event of the power being cut off?
How about an OC Fogger unit,until she gets more cmfy with the concept of firearms for fun and defense??

May 8, 2009, 10:31 PM
You trying to derail every thread on the site today im6with6sako?

With young kids you definitely need to make sure the gun is out of reach. The top of the closet doesn't fit that bill in my opinion. My 3 year old is smart enough to drag a chair to the closet.

Maybe think about a pistol in a biometric safe by the bed...that's what I use. Kids can find a key, learn a combo, find a hidden gun...but they can't duplicate my fingerprint. My safe is made by Bioscript and ran about $300. It will run off a 9v battery or you can plug in into the wall.

I wonder if anyone makes a biometric safe for long guns?

May 8, 2009, 10:33 PM
9Vbattery? Thanks, I had no idea

May 8, 2009, 10:34 PM
I would not keep a loaded firearm within kids reach or where it's not secured by something that they absolutely can't get into. Those little buggers are smarter than you think.

I have several gunvault safes with fingergroove pads that opens right up. I have then mounted under my night stand and my desk downstairs. I can get to my handguns in no time .

Really easy/fast to get to the firearm while being kidproof.

Shotgun is not THAT easy to use for SD unless you are well trained for it....and are hard to store secured in household with kids.

May 8, 2009, 10:36 PM
I'm sorry, I mis-spoke. My handgun safe is made by GunVault.

Here's one site with it. I don't know if it's the best price or not...just one of the first ones that popped up when I Googled it.

Bioscript makes the fingerprint reader I tried to use for my wall safe. I built a small room off my closet with a steel security door and mag lock...finger print reader was going to work the mag lock. Ended up having too many issues with it and bought a keypad instead.

May 8, 2009, 10:37 PM
GunVault Bio

May 8, 2009, 10:38 PM
The issue here isn't familiarity with firearms, she competed on a high powered rifle team before we were married. She wants everything locked up, and I agree when it comes our sporting guns, not the defense guns. I don't see defense guns locked up as safe, I see them as inaccessible.

May 8, 2009, 10:39 PM
Bioscrypt..IMO - from my experience, overpriced junk

May 8, 2009, 10:42 PM
I have a bit of experience with this, sure.

I have one of these:

Unless your finger is in EXACTLY the same position as when you recorded it, it won't open. That said, it holds 8 fingerprints, and we each recorded our fingerprints 4 times each. No problems since then - we hit one of them. That's on my wife's side of the bed, right in the wall.

She can get to it, in the dark, in about 2 seconds.

I also have one of these:

This is on my side of the bed and is where mine lives when it's not on me. I can get into it, in the dark, in about 2 seconds.

My shotgun actually lives in the big combo safe in the bedroom closet. No, she absolutely can't get to it quickly in an emergency - probably 30 seconds. But, neither can the kids/neighbor kids.

I have seen fingerprint safes large enough to hold a shotgun - but they're pretty expensive. It depends on your budget I suppose.

I've seen some pushbutton combination wall safes that might work - but I don't know how hard it would be/how long it would take for a 6 year old to figure out the right combination.


I considered this one - but went with the big safe, mainly because I needed much more space.

So my two cents - if you can't get an actual "safe" or cabinet/enclosure of some kind with instant entry that will hold the shotgun, then the shotgun is not the primary home defense weapon. Lock it up when it's loaded up, period.

I will tell you this. If you simply hang it up high, expecting that the kids won't get into it, you're begging for tragedy. (And, in Texas....prison.) Kids will find a way. Teach them safety, teach them responsibility, and absolutely ensure that there is no possible way they could ever get them without your knowledge.

May 8, 2009, 10:42 PM
How about a strong lock and door for the bedroom? By the time the bad guy makes it through she will have time to deal with the safe.

It's my experience that if she wants a safe, you better get her a safe. Otherwise she'll get one herself before your ship's anchor chain has time to dry.

May 8, 2009, 10:56 PM
JW, where did you get that fingerprint safe? who makes it?

May 8, 2009, 10:57 PM
I've got a friend who's deals with a product called the Lock and Load Safe. It's a gun safe that can be installed in the wall beside the bed. It can be opened with a combination or fingerprint. The best part is that if you have a burglar alarm, the safe will automatically open if the alarm is activated. Assuming you have an alarm, should an intruder break in, the safe will automatically open, giving her quick and easy access to the gun with no input required from her. I don't know if they make one big enough for a 870, but I can give you his info if you're interested.

The website is:

May 8, 2009, 11:08 PM
It's the SecureLogic Wall Vault, by Energy Tech Labs.


It's not bad - like I said, a little tricky at first to get set so you can get into it quickly (fingerprint position), but easily circumvented by storing multiple versions of the same finger. It even lights up when it opens, and runs off a hidden power supply - so no batteries to rely on.

I paid $350 for mine at Cheaper Than Dirt, but I don't see it on their site anymore. I got mine in their retail store in Ft Worth.

I've seen them on Amazon or Google for like $250-$400, depending on retailer.


May 8, 2009, 11:48 PM
I see hundreds, possibly thousands of posts on the shotgun being the ultimate HD weapon. How do you guys store them?

May 8, 2009, 11:54 PM
I'm in the same situation as you. I do have a big heavy safe in my closet, but it is painfully slow to access.

Solution: I carry a handgun on me at all times while awake, usually a S&W Model 15 or 642, or a 1911.

I also keep a Gunvault quick access safe stored inside the big safe during the day. Before I go to bed I pull it out and sit it on the floor next to my bed, angled perfectly so that I can reach over, dial in the combo and pull out the S&W 686 inside in a second or two.

Also before going to bed, I take my Mossberg 590 out of the big safe and sit it on a wire shelf in my closet, chamber empty and slide locked. The wire shelf is so close to the ceiling that I have to reach quite a bit to get it, and I'm 6'7" tall. Given the location of this shelf and the height it sits at, my 2 1/2 year old kid would have to get the step ladder out of the garage (no chair or stool in the house will do it) which is blocked by a big butt Ford Crown Vic that'd he'd have to move as well :D.

And he doesn't even know about the shotgun on the self at night, as he NEVER sees me retrieve it as he is always in bed before I do so. Additionally, the shotgun cannot be seen from the floor looking up.

In the end, I'm a fairly light sleeper and would most certainly hear him in our room. He's a good kid too, he'll wake up in the morning but he won't leave his room until we come to get him.

Anyway, in the morning the Gunvault and shotgun get put back in the safe and strap on my carry gun.

This arrangement may not work for you, but I wanted to share it. I've thought long and hard about my particular situation, and this setup works fine for us. Give your plan a LOT of thought prior to putting it into practice, whatever it may be.

Zach S
May 8, 2009, 11:59 PM
I see hundreds, possibly thousands of posts on the shotgun being the ultimate HD weapon. How do you guys store them?I keep my shotgun in the safe.

I keep my AR a locked closet. The lady cant shoot my shotgun, but is pretty confident with the AR. So we use it instead.

May 9, 2009, 12:03 AM
Lock it up through the day and pull it out when the kids go to sleep. It can stay within her reach or locked in the safe at all times.

Ed Ames
May 9, 2009, 12:12 AM
I see hundreds, possibly thousands of posts on the shotgun being the ultimate HD weapon. How do you guys store them?

In the umbrella stand by the front door.

Zach S
May 9, 2009, 12:15 AM
Just in case those infected with KV find out where you live?

Ed Ames
May 9, 2009, 12:20 AM
Naw, I figure they already know and don't mess with me 'cause of my sunny disposition.

Seriously though, what works for me may be (would be IMO) totally inappropriate for someone in different circumstances. The umbrella stand should put that in stark relief.

May 9, 2009, 12:21 AM
1. She is a sound sleeper and doesn't have time on her side.
2. Is groggy when she wakes up, and won't quite realize what's going on, time again.

She needs a Dog, and possibly barriers to entry.

You should know that we have two children, 4 and 6. I want to hang the gun on the inside of our wide closet at the top, out of sight and no way the kids could get to it even if they knew it was there.

Do you have any chairs in the house? boxes? The kids WILL find it. My kids when 2 years old could move chairs and climb on top of counters and even refrigerators. There is no place in your house that is "out of reach" of a 4 and 6 year old.

May 9, 2009, 12:54 AM
Liberty has a biometric lock option for their safes. You'd have to special order it, and it does cost a little bit more but it would give you a biometric "safe" long enough to hold 12 guns (their smallest model).

May 9, 2009, 01:03 AM
Let's see:
We've got a beagle with a mean bark, but he sleeps more soundly than any of us. Great with the kids, sucks as a watch dog.

I don't think my wife could remember to take the gun out at night, plus the kids crawl into our bed when I'm gone.

Plenty of obstacles; toys, shoes, and a never-ending mountain of laundry:neener:

I don't know, maybe we'll just stick to the pistols. The boys are getting to the age now where they'll have to be locked up, so kinda the same situation. I worry about them like crazy when I'm helplessly thousands of miles away. My kids have it ingrained in their heads to never touch a gun unless I hand it to them. Guns aren't taboo in the house either, we go over safety, they help me clean them and they particularly love helping me sort range brass. But...I remember how I was when I was a kid too. I shot my .22 without my parents knowing quite often.

I really gotta think on this one. I need something safe, accessible, with no daily routine involved. I think I'm down to pistols in a bio-safe.:banghead:

I really wanted a shotgun for her. Safer for penetration through walls, general direction aiming, and the "holy crap" sound of a shell getting chambered.

Keep em coming though, this is a good thread with a lot of good ideas. I'm sure someone out there has my circumstances, and the game plan to go along with it.

Hungry Seagull
May 9, 2009, 01:14 AM
Pull a drill on your wife. Have the shotgun nicely encased with locks and all sitting next to the bed.

Bang on the door and scream at the wife "THIS IS A DRILL< INTRUDER!!!!" really bang on the door. Then advance on the wife and her gun with deliberate walk.

Chances you will find wife sitting there fumbling with keys, combos or doing circles because of too many things to do at once.

Wife did the drill on me. I thought I had it all down. Nope. I died 12 seconds into the drill while choosing the correct trigger lock key.

Our solution.

ugh.. busted link.

We modded ours to cut down a bit and they are on the wall ready to go.

When they are locked up there is a ... trigger cable that goes through the chamber and shell loading area. That gun is not going to be operatable other than as a club.

Now we can fall out of bed and be spooling up to speed more or less within 4 seconds. There is also a handgun that reduces that time to nothing if necessary.

I think a over and under model will work for the 870 and the standard tube works for the moss. We measure the height mount of the grabber to be JUST ABOVE the pump's top with action open. So you just grab barrel and haul it pops right out.

THere are several gun grabbers around the home, several of which are occupied at any time 24/7. They are usually located away from windows where people wont catch sight of them right away.

May 9, 2009, 01:17 AM
Mechanical lock for the shotgun (trigger lock, with key or something like that), with the KEY in the instantly accessible safe?

You're adding roughly 4-5 seconds to the process, but you get a shotgun in usable condition within 8-10 seconds without having to worry about misplacing the key.

WORST case, the pistol is also in the safe.

May 9, 2009, 01:18 AM
I don't think that's the right website, Seagull.

Hungry Seagull
May 9, 2009, 01:26 AM
Good catch.

Here it is double checked and verified.


So sorry.


May 9, 2009, 02:15 AM
Reinforce your doors first. http://www.djarmor.com/Products/Door-Jamb-Armor This may buy you time to get to your firearm. Then you can make your wife happy by locking your shotgun in a safe to keep the kids at bay.

May 9, 2009, 06:44 AM
Why not just avoid the entire lock problem? Get a good quality pistol and put it in one of the Trick picture frames that hide guns. There are several on the market, including at least one that is long enough to hold a shotgun.

Hang your nice new picture on the wall on her side of the bed. Don't tell the kids there is anything in there. No locks, latches, switches or fingerprint readers needed. Access time <1 second.

Problem solved.

May 9, 2009, 07:43 AM
I see hundreds, possibly thousands of posts on the shotgun being the ultimate HD weapon. How do you guys store them?

Well, I have the advantage that there are no kids in the house. The wife and I call our bed "Bedzilla" ... and for good reason. Platform bed, Big storage headboard, and 6 underbed drawers on each side of the bed, built in nightstands. The loaded 870 (mag full, but nothing in the pipe) is in the headboard on her side. The loaded Judge (Winchester 000 buck) is in the nightstand on my side.

May 9, 2009, 10:57 AM
Reinforce your doors first. http://www.djarmor.com/Products/Door-Jamb-Armor This may buy you time to get to your firearm. Then you can make your wife happy by locking your shotgun in a safe to keep the kids at bay.
But that only works if the intruder is comming through the door. What about the window or possible screen door?

Unless you mean put it on the door to the bedroom making it a "safe room" type. But then you have the kids you need to get up, out, and into the safe room first.

*** Here is what I did and it may seem "extreme" but it makes everyone comfortable. I put the shotgun INSIDE my wall. I cut out a rectangle length of drywall in the bedroom near my bed. I put a loaded 20 gauge inside (none in the chamber though). Then I screwed a long plastic mirror over it. The mirror is screwed into the drywall and not the studs. ***

This way if there is an intruder, I just yank the mirror off the wall and have access to the weapon. REALLY FAST, totaly concealed, perfectly child safe. Now you can probably use this only once before your kids know it is there. But I keep the rest of my rifles, including a duplicate shotgun in the safe. So the kids think that is where i keep all the guns.

Everyone is happy. No keys, no combos to remember. No fine motor dexterity required. All gross motor skills that work really well when the adrenaline is flowing. And that shotgun doesnt get touched excet to change the ammo out every year or so. The duplicate in the safe is what the wife and I practice with.

Carne Frio
May 9, 2009, 11:04 AM
These look like something you might want:


Prices look reasonable, too.:D

Hungry Seagull
May 9, 2009, 12:51 PM
You would be surprised what our walls contain sometimes. Not that there is anything going on. There is a fire extinguisher next to the computer in the corner and that thing will do some damage against a badguy. Much like the little 10 dollar trucking extinguishers used to do..

The previous poster talking mirrors makes a point.

The ability of your wife to handle small things when stressed is very challenged.

What is normal to touch gets very tiny when stressed.

Not to mention the right mirrior with the glass can be used as a vicious weapon if the BG is already inside the bedroom.

Ideally the HD battle is won or lost at the front door or the door in front of your chosen refuge room.

May 9, 2009, 12:58 PM
Mossberg Loc-Box mounted to the closet wall.

Wear the key around your neck when you go to bed.




May 9, 2009, 01:05 PM
First, it's great that you're aware of the little ones. I strongly recommend you spend a lot of time ensuring there's no mystery. I always let the kids see and handle firearms, using the opportunity to drill safety. And make sure they see and realize the destruction they will do. (You likely already do that.) I'm more worried about the really little ones than the older ones.
Second, if you can get a dog, that'll buy you some time. We've got a cow dog and he only knows a few commands--sit, stay, and pin 'em...so I can get the rifle.#
Third, good advice has been given on running drills with whatever option you choose.

May 9, 2009, 08:44 PM
I'm seriously thinking about the mirror idea, seems pretty solid for what I need. I really appreciate all the input guys. It's great to come to a place, express your concerns and nobody treats you like you're a paranoid freak.

May 9, 2009, 10:41 PM
I'm seriously thinking about the mirror idea, seems pretty solid for what I need.
It was the only solution that made my wife and I both happy. Quick access for me, out of sight/access from the young kids for her. A good compromise. Run it by the wife and see what she says.

Just make sure its a plastic mirror or else you can hurt youself on broken glass in an emergency or in the dark. A long painting might also work if it matches your decor better. Use screws instead of nails because nails will fall off the drywall by accident. And make sure you don't drill into a wall stud or else you will never rip if off.

And even kids know they get in BIG TROUBLE if they ever tear a mirror off the wall LOL.

I timed it once and it only took me 3 seconds to have the shotgun in hand and ready to go. Get up, tear the mirror off the wall, grab the shotgun.

May 9, 2009, 10:46 PM
The break-away mirror ideas sounds good, but is there another way to get to the gun in a nonemergency situation? Breaking a mirror or breaking out the electric screwdriver every time you make a range trip sounds like a pain.

Hungry Seagull
May 9, 2009, 10:52 PM
Is there any way to get to the gun in a non emergency situation?


Ah yes.

Put a hatch on top of the gun compartment and a dipstick to check the oil once in a while without having to open the compartment LOL.


Regarding the paranoia... the older one gets and the younger the doctors become with the more potent medicines being filled... paranoia is easy to come by these days.

May 9, 2009, 11:34 PM
The break-away mirror ideas sounds good, but is there another way to get to the gun in a nonemergency situation? Breaking a mirror or breaking out the electric screwdriver every time you make a range trip sounds like a pain.
Unscrewing it is the only way. I only take it out once a year to change out the ammo. BUT I do have a duplicate gun in the safe that I take to the range :) As for it being a pain, its a lot less of a pain than my wife can be lol

May 10, 2009, 08:34 AM
An alarm system sounds like a good idea for your wife, if you don't have one.

bill larry
May 10, 2009, 12:34 PM
I had a girlfriend in high school, freshman year.

We spent the better part of a summer trying to figure out the combination to her dad's gun safe. We took notes. We eventually succeeded.

Kids will get into anything if they have the time and motivation. Best to teach them even at a young age that guns are not toys.

Oh...and don't store your stash in your gun safe. When we cracked Brooke's dads gun safe open, we found all his guns (loaded) and a pound of pot; which we smoked.

May 10, 2009, 12:59 PM
I would suggest getting her the safe. When she is up and alert she will be able to access it much easier. Just make her promise before she goes to sleep that she takes it out of the safe and hangs it above the bed. If the kids crawling on the bed to play with the shotgun in the middle of the night doesn't wake her up, then having a shotgun would be useless seeing as she would sleep thru the home invasion as well :D

May 10, 2009, 09:36 PM
As I read this thread on how to go about safely storing a firearm for emergency puposes, I cannot help but comment so here goes. I'm sure I'll get roasted for this but this is my two cents on the issue.

I do not know about others' situation but, when I was a young lad (think just potty trained), my father told me that guns were absolutely not toys and were not to be toyed with. Now, I didn't fully understand that concept until one day I outstretched my little hand and just barely TOUCHED his unloaded service piece laying on the kitchen counter. Let me say he proceeded to whip my A double S :eek: so hard that I immediately realized the error of my ways and from that day forth I never touched another one of his firearms until I was of age and had the proper instruction on safety and so on. (There is a similar story on matches...another time perhaps):o

I am a serious advocate of physical discipline (discipline does not mean cruelty or abuse) for today's youth. I also believe that if parents would put the "fear of GOD" in kids today by wearing their little tender fannies out when orders are blatantly disobeyed, then the kids AND society as a whole would benefit greatly. Yall know where I'm going with this....

I am not advocating that the OP should not get a safe for storage of firearms but I am saying that in my opinion a firearm owned for the purpose of defense should be readily availible and one should not have to go through an obstacle course in the wee hours of the morning (or any time for that matter) to gain access to the firearm. Store the shotgun in the corner of the master bedroom closet with an empty chamber and leave the locks off (in the case of handguns, leave them in a nightstand drawer). Locks do nothing for your protection if you are fumbling with them in the event of a home invasion/burglarly situation.

DO tell the youth of the house that these areas (closet/nightstand)are STRICTLY off limits to them and that if they do violate this rule then.... well tell them they don't want to violate this rule. I also know that this way of thinking worked for my situation but is not applicable to 100 percent of the households in america and in those cases other courses of action need to be persued, I'll let someone else get creative on that one.

Kids are NEVER to young to start their education and learn certain life lessons. Jeez, how did people do it 50-100 years ago..... I'm surprise we survived at all without gun locks and safes...

I can smell burning flesh already.......:D

May 10, 2009, 09:58 PM
My dad whipped me hard and often and I still played with his guns when he wasn't around. :p

Hungry Seagull
May 10, 2009, 10:16 PM
We all were a punishment on the fannie by several generations. Finally one day pa hit me and I laughed at him because I knew that would be his predictable behavior.

He changed punishments to match my advancing age LOL. OUCH!

I was around things that went boom quite a bit growing up. Somehow I knew that I dont play with them unless someone taught me how to do it.

May 10, 2009, 11:40 PM
Go with what your wife wants. She is the one that has to use it and has to also watch out for the kids while you're gone. Take her to the shop or shop online together and discuss it between the two of you. She'll appreciate your concern for her much more that way. :)

May 11, 2009, 12:56 PM
Here's a link to a gunvault that handles long guns. Same 4 finger combo, very quick, or biometric (which I am still not that confident in). Our small gunvaults are easy for my wife to access. She keeps some jewelry in there w/ her pistol. This is a smart woman who just has serious trouble w/ a dial lock.

This would keep the kids out, provide quick access in the dark.



May 11, 2009, 01:50 PM
Navyguy, I feel your pain. The last thing my wife would think of is going for a shotgun or any gun for that matter if an intruder threatened our house and I was not home.

4. She does not have the best memory in the world, the gun safe could sit there for months on end never being opened, then she has to remember combinations in split seconds.

I sometimes forget my cell phone number under minimal stress. Think about a safe and high stress.

I like your idea of the bracket under the closet shelf. I stand mine loaded in the corner. Kids.... no no, don't EVER touch, EVER. So far it has worked.

Lou McGopher
May 11, 2009, 02:40 PM
My Mossberg 12ga 500A is on a wall-rack, 7' up. It's loaded, but the chamber is empty. The safety is on, and I've already cycled the slide once. Thus to fire the weapon, it must be removed from the rack high up on the wall, slide release button must be depressed, slide must be cycled properly, the safety turned off, and the trigger pulled. I can do this all in 2 seconds. An adult unfamiliar with the firearm will have some difficulty figuring this all out in a short period of time. A young child will probably not be able to do all of this, at least not unless left unsupervised for a stupidly long period of time. My 7-y.o. would never even attempt this, because she Knows The Rules.

May 11, 2009, 02:54 PM
Who needs fingerprints?

Lots of electronic safes open easily in a second with a pushbutton combo. Shouldn't take longer than opening the closet door and reaching up inside -- but the safe will be a LOT more likely keep your 4 year old from becoming a dead pile of bloody goo than putting a shotgun "where there's no way the kids can get to it."

You have two kids, but have you ever actually met any kids?:) You know, those little creatures that we call upon when we can't get the lid off a childproof medicine bottle?

Your wife doesn't really want your kids to become piles of bloody dead goo, and figures she can push a few buttons as easily as opening the closet and reaching up inside. Doesn't sound too whack to me.

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