This is how much Bullet sticks out to touch the lands,.is this ok?


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hc1
May 11, 2009, 10:40 AM
The gun is a Remington 700 7mm remington magnum.I am Using an OAL gauge. The picture shows how far the bullet is out of the case to touch the lands. Have only shot loads that are very close to factory loads, OAL.
Just concern about that much bullet out of the case. This will be target loads, so loading them one at a time is ok.
Thinking maybe back off about 0.050 and start there, what do you think.

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jbkebert
May 11, 2009, 10:49 AM
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww241/jbkebert/bullets002.jpg?t=1242053008

The bullets you are using have a cannular ring on them. That ring is for the crimp. Or i guess in other words they are made to be seated at that point. If you are going to seat off the lands select a bullet without that ring. Also it seems as though they stick out pretty far. The picture above is of two .308 win rounds. The one on the left is a 165 grain InterBond factory seated at the cannular ring. The one on the right is a 168 grain A-max seated to .010 off of the lands. This is only one load for one rifle and there are tons of possibilties. I would be afraid that from the looks of your photo that you are too long overall. I could be wrong, I would also be afraid that you will have alot of trouble getting those shells to cycle through a magazine be it internal or box style. When I make up a load with a OAL gauge I take a measurement and write it down. I completly screw up the gauge and then take a new measurement. I do this 4 to 5 times to make darn sure I keep coming up with the same thing. Then depending on the make up of the rifle. I make one group of shells at .010 off the lands, another group at .012 and then .015.

NCsmitty
May 11, 2009, 10:55 AM
If that is an actual to-land dummy round, then I would seat the bullet .020 deeper and try. This is the numbers that I use when setting my COAL.

You need not worry about the cannelure. You just need to determine if it fits the magazine if you are not shooting single shot.

NCsmitty

rcmodel
May 11, 2009, 11:37 AM
IMO: Using all the case neck to provide better case neck tension (to get consistent powder burn) will do more for accuracy then seating to such extreme lengths.

At some point, you will reach a point of diminishing returns, and it looks like you might already be there.

Unfortunately, todays rifles are coming with ever longer free-bore, or long leades in order to reduce pressure, and limit liability. It's a lawyer induced "Improvement" to todays rifles that makes me question whether we have almost reached a point of making "seating to the rifling" impossible, or at least impractical.

On the otherhand, Weatherby invented excessively long free-bore 60 years ago, and some of them shoot incredibly well with normal factory load seating length.
As will your Remington 700 if you find the right bullet & powder charge.

rc

Master Blaster
May 11, 2009, 11:40 AM
Are you able to close the bolt on such a long round?, Unless the throat is completely burned away from thousands of rounds being fired I would bet the bolt will not close on that round. If it does you need a new barrel because your old one is worn out.

30Cal
May 11, 2009, 12:26 PM
For anything other than very special purpose, I'd say it's bad. You want approx 1 caliber's worth of neck tension.

USSR
May 11, 2009, 12:32 PM
Welcome to the world of the long-throated Remingtons.:D

Don

rcmodel
May 11, 2009, 12:37 PM
You want approx 1 caliber's worth of neck tension.At least.
But more is probably more better.

rc

hc1
May 11, 2009, 01:46 PM
This picture is a 5 shot group at 100 yards with same bullet as in the first post of this thread, with the bullet seated at the cannular. I am still working up a good load. Haven't got to the point of adjusting my scope yet, no need in chasing bullet holes untill i get the group i am looking for.
I record all parameters just don't have them in front of me.

243winxb
May 11, 2009, 01:49 PM
Seat some long like in your photo. Seat some with the full diameter(not boatail) of the body of the bullet at the neck shoulder junction. Seat some in the middle of the 2. Take you 3 different COAL ammo to the range and test. 5 shots each. Plus i feel its more important to have the round centered in the chamber. Try working on your cartridge headspace, using the shoulder of the belted 7mm.

rcmodel
May 11, 2009, 03:07 PM
This picture is a 5 shot group at 100 yards with same bullet as in the first post of this thread, with the bullet seated at the cannular.Well, that right there looks like a pretty darn good 5-shot 100 yard group for a Rem 7mm Mag.

Proving the point that you don't have to seat really long to get it to shoot.

rc

fireman 9731
May 11, 2009, 04:09 PM
Yep... with a group like that I would just keep it simple and seat to the cannelure!

Ol` Joe
May 11, 2009, 04:21 PM
The std rule of thumb for seating depth is 1 caliber or more of the bullet needs to be in the case, minimum. Example; a 7mm bullet should have 0.284" of the shank in the case. This of course isn`t cut in stone.
The big question in my mind is if the loaded cartridge will fit your magazine? To my eyes it appears it might a bit longer then the SAAMI max COL 3.290"?

Ben Shepherd
May 11, 2009, 04:27 PM
I'll give you a 3rd on that motion.

If that rifle is shooting that load seated to the cannelure like that out of the box with a factory barrel, and the velocity is high enough for you, run it. Especially if you can reliably duplicate it in different weather conditions.

You'll burn a lot of slugs and powder trying to beat it.

Mal H
May 11, 2009, 04:31 PM
As several have said, if you're getting groups like that with "short" rounds, I think you're going to be hard pressed to improve the groups by seating so that the bullet just touches the lands.

However, there's nothing wrong with wanting to try. That's what makes handloading fun! 243winxb gave you a good idea for a range of bullet seating experiments. Might be an eye opener if you give that a try.

As for your original question - "Is this ok?" Yes, it is, but only if you do as you said and hand load them individually into the chamber. I doubt you would have much luck loading from the magazine anyway. But, I would be more leery of the bullet getting cocked in the case mouth with that much of a lever sticking out of the case.

Having at least a caliber of case mouth purchase on the bullet is desirable, but not absolutely necessary. The problem is you would be carrying around some relatively fragile rounds, as far as I'm concerned.

hc1
May 11, 2009, 04:56 PM
Thanks for your replys. The rounds that was shot into the pictured target where at a max length as far as working a live round through the rifle. May try what 243winxb said just to see. I don't mind loading them one by one.
That target was only my 5th batch of 5 shot loads.

Bullet: Hornady 162 grain SST
Powder: Hodgdon H 1000 61.7 Gr.

lgbloader
May 12, 2009, 12:50 AM
That target was only my 5th batch of 5 shot loads.

Looks like your on the right path. Just don't make it too complicated for complicated sake to try to make it better. Sometimes simple is the ticket.

LGB

FlyinBryan
May 12, 2009, 01:06 AM
keep in mind that seating to the lands can increase chamber pressure above what a given load will suggest, as well as accelerate throat erosion.

Sport45
May 12, 2009, 02:55 AM
I'm cornfused. You said:

This picture is a 5 shot group at 100 yards with same bullet as in the first post of this thread, with the bullet seated at the cannular.

and then turned around and said:

The rounds that was shot into the pictured target where at a max length as far as working a live round through the rifle.

Does that mean that seating at the cannelure is the only way they fit in the mag well or that the group was shot with the set-long bullets in your first post? If that group was shot with the bullets seated to the cannelure and they function through your action I'd leave well enough alone. At this point you could play with crimp/no crimp (into the cannelure) or tweak the powder charge. You may have to move the target out another 100 yards or so to see the changes...

hc1
May 12, 2009, 10:25 AM
Quote from Sport45



Quote:
This picture is a 5 shot group at 100 yards with same bullet as in the first post of this thread, with the bullet seated at the cannular.

and then turned around and said:


Quote:
The rounds that was shot into the pictured target where at a max length as far as working a live round through the rifle.

Does that mean that seating at the cannelure is the only way they fit in the mag well . Yes, Have not shot any rounds that are any where near the length in the photo at the start of this thread.



Sorry for the confusing

Clarence
May 12, 2009, 12:52 PM
WIll the rounds even fit in the magazine?

hc1
May 12, 2009, 01:52 PM
WIll the rounds even fit in the magazine?

The ones pictured,.no

1858
May 12, 2009, 02:38 PM
If you're set on seating the bullet close to the lands then a Wyatt extended magazine could help. I installed one in my 700 in .300WSM and can now seat 190gr SMK bullets 0.020" off the lands AND they'll fit in and feed from the box magazine.


Wyatt extended magazine for BDL (long action) (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=485657)

Wyatt extended magazine for ADL (long action) (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=416292)

:)

GP100man
May 12, 2009, 05:13 PM
for seeing what ya can wring out of the rifle as far as accuracy goes it`s fine aslong as pressures are safe , but for practicial reasons as hunting & general shootin the ammo would be too delicate to handle much .but +1 for rc`s comment on crimp & powder burn affecting acc.

this is only my 2cents worth .


GP100man

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