[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Does anybody here know anything about it and willing to tell me? I can look at the muzzle and tell it's not full choke. A dime will slide all the way through those barrels and fall right out. Are the barrels rifled? (lands and grooves) My sister want's one for home defense..Add ON..Thanks anyway but never mind. I just read the add in Cabela's catalog. Smoothbore and will handle a load of buckshot. My sister think's it will sweep a room clean very quickly. I tend to agree with her. It's short, well balanced and real easy to handle in tight quarters..Thank ya'll anyway....

[BHP FAN]

you can get it in .50 cal x 20 ga,.50x.50, or 20x20.Check Dixie Gunworks as well as Cabela's [it's the same maker/gun] for details...

[BHP FAN]

Oh,and Dixie carries a nice holster for it as well.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

We'll go with the regular 20 guage and number 2 shot. Thank you sir. She won't need a holster with it. She'll just have it laying around where she can get her hands on it real fast during daytime when she's up and moving about the house and at night it will be in the bed and under the covers with her....

[BlackNet]

The 20 gauge is cylinder bore. the 50 cal is rifled 12 grooves 1:18 twist.

http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/29762-6/IMG_7335.JPG

I just looked and this now comes in 50 or 58 caliber which is even better as the 50 is lumpy from certain angles. 58 would make it even.

I wish I had got mine in 20x20 vs 20x50.

[alemonkey]

That thing's gotta have a heck of a kick! Looks like fun.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Thank you Blacknet. I think we'vd got it worked out. She'll put up part of the money, her son will put up some and I'll chip in a little. She can shoot it 2 or 3 times to check range and pattern. She may drop down to a steady diet of #4 shot for it. She want's a little scatter to it. She get's real damn serious when it come's to protecting her home and her 2 grandchildren....

[BlackNet]

alemonkey, depends on how much powder you put in it. You can easily fire it one handed with 30 grains of powder in it. You could also reduce it down to say 15 grains and have no recoil at all.

[NobleSniper]

I have a set of 20g SxS barrel sitiing in the shop that are destined to be cut down and built into a howdah pistol. It will be built entirely out of pieces that have been given to me over the years. A set of double locks and double triggers off of a turn of the century 12 SxS as well as the 20g barrels from another shotgun were something someone was going to discarded. About teh only thing I will have to buy is wood to build a stock set and its gonna need new nipples as well.............

[BHP FAN]

I have an old Corsiar pistol in .44.I consider it my po' boy's .410 Howdah.

[BlackNet]

going to carve/checker it as well?

http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/29749-1/IMG_7310.JPG

http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/29747-1/IMG_7308.JPG

http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/29741-1/IMG_7302.JPG

Sorry I could not resist posting these.

[Shotgun Willy]

I found an old 12 ga. SXS on Gunbroker, the other day. Watched it for a couple of days, and finally bid on it, and won. I sure hope it's not a Pyrrhic victory.
It's destined to become a howdah, and since it's..uh, 'vintage', I'm planning on being gentle with it.

Now to come up with everydamnthingelse I need. Oh well, some things start out as long-term projects.

[Ginormous]

Sorry I could not resist posting these.

And I never tire of seeing those. :)

Absolutely beautiful wood carving.

[NobleSniper]

Have to agree the wood on that is gorgeous. Mine won't be that fancy though. :D It will probably look a bit aged as the parts I am using are old ;)

[Oyeboten]

If some of these are Smooth Bore...where's the 'B of A T F ( and now, ) E' on these?


Are short Muzzle Loading Shotguns, or BP only, Cartridge ones, liable to the same Tax, as Smokeless Powder Cartridge ones?


Very cool Handgun, to be sure!

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Very pleasant and kind of you to post them. The only picture we had was the one in a Cabela's shooting catalog. (may be one on the computer site. we didn't check) She just got off the phone with them a while ago. Somebody there gave her a lot of good information....

[NobleSniper]

Be cause they are charged with loose power and ball/shot they are not considered a AOW or shortbarreled shotgun or rifle. If they used a shell/cartrige then the laws would be applicable to them .

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Blacknet, I showed her the pictures you just posted. She told me to say thank you. She's buying one for sure, pretty damn quick to. She has a .38 Special and a permit to carry and she's got a .22 rifle and a Mossberg 12 guage pump. (she's very familiar with the loading and firing and cleaning of blackpowder firearms) She don't trust herself to hit with the.38 in the excitement and fear of the moment, and she's afraid she maybe wouldn't be able to get the 12 guage swung around in time before they would be on her. Somebody rattled her back door knob the other night. She just happened to be laying there awake and she switched a light on and whoever it was left. She told me about it that following morning. I told her she should have just stayed there in the dark and waited on them to come inside....

[nalioth]

If some of these are Smooth Bore...where's the 'B of A T F ( and now, ) E' on these?


Are short Muzzle Loading Shotguns, or BP only, Cartridge ones, liable to the same Tax, as Smokeless Powder Cartridge ones?


Very cool Handgun, to be sure! Muzzle loaders are exempt from modern firearm regs.

This is why you see >18" bbl black powder shotguns such as the Howdah, pistols with shoulder stocks and other configurations that would be taxable in a cartridge firearm.
http://xs839.xs.to/xs839/09205/m861.jpg

[RyanM]

I would strongly recommend using #1 buckshot rather than #2 or #4 birdshot. Birdshot can be lethal, but the question is will it be quickly lethal? I just saw a good quote on stopping power, "it's good enough to kill an elephant, but it's not good enough to fight an elephant."

When you're trying to fight a man, as opposed to leaving him well enough to kill you before he crawls off to a gutter and dies, shotgun shot is the same as any other bullet, bigger is better! And #1 buck is the largest standard size which will fit 2 x 2 in the barrel.

If she's worried about the shot going through a wall, then she's just going to have to practice enough to put all the pellets on what she's aiming at. There are no shortcuts around that, because any birdshot larger than #6 will also go through an interior wall and be potentially lethal on the other side, especially if a pellet hits a child (but once again, this is dying in the hospital type of lethality, not dead right there). And not coincidentally, birdshot sizes smaller than #6 are also very unreliable at killing people. It's not too uncommon for a healthy, large man to take a load of full power 12 gauge #6 or smaller birdshot square in the chest from a couple feet away, and then still be standing when the ambulance gets there. EMTs can have some real stories to tell about gunshot wounds! One specific one I remember, a guy was hit in the chest with a #6 high brass 12 gauge load from about 2-3 feet, and was standing on his front porch when the ambulance got there. Only one pellet made it through the muscle and bone of the ribcage, and it lodged in his heart. He still survived, though.

10 pellets of #1 add up to 7/8 ounce, which Goex recommends as the heaviest 20 gauge charge. 61 gr of FF powder gives 990 fps in a full size gun, or you can use 69 gr for 1010 fps. Or for a 20 gauge cartridge, they recommend 65 gr FFF, for 1100 fps.

I'd probably use 65 gr of FFF and a modern 20 gauge plastic wad (it may take some real force to get the wad down) with a shot cup, 10 pellets of #1, and an overshot wad. According to my very scientific estimates, you'll be looking at 850 to 900 fps of velocity. On birdshot, I would not count on that stopping someone, but on 10 pellets of #1, it would do the job.

I've got the modern equivalent of the old howdah pistol, and it would be a real nightmare for a home invader. Same overall length, and modern smokeless shells result in about the same velocity (on a heavier shot charge because it's a 12 gauge). The more things change...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/syldssuf/serbu7.jpg

[higene]

98066

98067

I prefer .32 cal balls and 20 gr Goex ff and 20 gr Synthetic fff.

20 will make it go and 60 is snorty.

:eek:

Higene

Gory, gory, what a helluva way to die

[Oyeboten]

Interesting..!


I've always wanted a Double-Barrel Muzzle-Loading Black Powder 12 Gauge Shotgun...and, AND, I've always wanted a 'shorty' Double Barrel, Pistol-grip Shotgun of some sort...


A Howdah would seem to be a Marriage made in Heaven then..!

[Ratdog68]

Cabela's, ya say? :D

[Voodoochile]

This is one of the need to have toys on my list.

I'll get one one day..

[BlackNet]

Ok now keep in mind my howdah was CUSTOM carved and checkered. It did NOT come like that from the factory. I bought the kit and built it myself and sent the stock to Erol Case of Case custom gunstocks for the carvings, he's a master when it comes to carvings.

So far the only 'pitfalls' we have been able to find on this unit is that if you have the ramrod out and pour shot down the bore and you happen to miss the hole and some falls down the ramrod hole it can work it's way into the locks and potentially break a spring. Solution is to put some type of filling material either playdough, wood filler, bedding compound or the like in this area here.
http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/29830-1/IMG_7387.JPG

This is factory locks.
http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/26100-1/IMG_5156.JPG

This is the 'lumpy' barrels I mentioned, 20 gauge and 50 caliber. the 20x20 and 20x58 does not have this look as they are uniform.
http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/26025-2/IMG_5074.JPG

At the range you can expect a 4 foot spread at 20-25 feet. using #6 shot.

[higene]

With .31 dia balls and 20 gauge shot cups I basically got an improvised glasser safety slug at 5 and 7 yards. The opened at further ranges but I did not like the results. I got the feeling that the shot cups might open quicker if you pushed them harder, 50-60 grains of powder

I tried .58 Lee cast Minnies with a 20 gauge shot cup as a sabot. That resulted in key holing. The ball mold that they sell for the Howdah cast balls that are really tight when patched. I am checking the lead formula. Too hard lead may cast larger balls. I did find a Lyman 20 gauge slug (3/4 oz) mold that was better. The slug mold is hard to cast good bullets with. It takes a long time to warm up.

Ranges on 007 (previous included target) were 5 and 7 yards.

:scrutiny:

Higene

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

XXXX

[HB]

I told her she should have just stayed there in the dark and waited on them to come inside....
Off topic but WHY??? Whoever it was left. Mission accomplished.

[matrem]

1000 grain bullet,at 1700 fps?.(6400+ ft. lbs)
I did hear that on T.V..Just this week.(Outdoor channel..I think?)
Possible?

[Ratdog68]

"Off topic but WHY??? Whoever it was left. Mission accomplished."
Well... simply put... they MAY be back.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

XXXX

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

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