[TheWarhammer]

I'm not a total novice when it come to BP revolvers, but it's been over ten years since I've owned one. My last (and only) BP revolver was a second hand, brass framed .36 Navy that was in dubious shape when I bought it. It evenutially (literally) fell apart.

Anyway, I've been thinking about getting another BP revolver and I'm seriously thinking about a Walker. At first, I was leaning toward a New Army, due to features like the frame having a top strap, safety notches between the nipples and models available with adjustable sights. However, I keep coming back to the Walker's superior power (there's no replacement for displacement). I've learned quite a bit by perusing the intarwebs, but I still have a few issues that I would like to get some clarity on. So, here goes...

1. As I understand it, the Walker is literally the biggest bang you can get in BP revolvers, true?

2. I read that the Dragoon was an "improved" version of the Walker, solving problems like the loading lever rattling loose during firing and the cylinder blowing up. I assume that a modern Walker will have better metallurgical properties than the originals, so exploding cylinders will not be an issue, provide you don't load a conical bullet backwards, of course. What about the lever? Still shakes loose or no longer an issue?

3. Where to buy? Cabella's advertises a (Pietta I believe) walker for $400. Is that about the going price? Any secret place to get a better deal?

4. Any particular brands to avoid?

5. Balls or bullets? I plan to use this guns mostly for plinking but also fo the occasional wild hog hunt.

6. I understand that is can be load to 60 grains of BP. Is this what folks typically use, or are you getting better results from lighter loads?

7. The Walker has the rear sight integrated into the hammer, correct? I know this is probably blasphemy, but has anyone ever put better, barrel mounted sights on one? If so, were the results favorable?

8. Does the Walker have the safety notches between the nipples like a New Army? The Walker has a topless frame (as opposed to the New Army's frame with a top strap), is the frame robust enough to last long-term?

9. Are there any improvements or mods that should be done right out of the box to most Walkers?

Thanks in advance for any input!

-Rex

[scrat]

You should have just posted this on the Walker club.
1. Yes the Walker is the largest black powder revolver ever made. Even today its just as big as a S&W 500 not as powerfull but just as big
2. Dragoons were just a tad better. The loading lever drop is still there as these are exact or close to exact copies of the originals that you can get. So the same problems are still there minus the blowing up. the lever can be a quick fix though and is not a big deal. there are a bunch of solutions to that.
3. 400 for a new one is about average. brand will be a Uberti. you can find them for anywhere in the 300-350 range used on gunbroker.
4. santa barbara. just the old ones and there wasnt really any quality control on the old ones from the 60's and older. newer ones or today are only made by Uberti. Its a good brand though. You can also find cimaron. price a little higher but excellent quality.
5.balls all the way. some guys use the picket bullets. but they really just dont go in straight. just dont do it for me.
6.lol i wish 60 most i have ever put in was around 57 grains. if you put 60 then try to load the ball you will end up having to shave the nose with a pocket knife as it wont turn.
7. dont need a rear site. this is a massive 4 1/2 lbs 16 inch cannon. its a natural born aiming shooting gun. i doubt you will trying to do match targets with it. just to heavy after a while but very accurate for plinking at hitting steel
8. no safety again this is an exact copy of it from 1847. there are improvements you can do to it but then it would not be an orignal
9. first thing would be to pull the nipples put them in a ziplock and keep them for spare. then get yourself a set of treso nipples they are so much better. later on if you can get a R&D conversion cylinder. then you will be able to shoot 45 colt as well it soo soo much fun

[mykeal]

1. As I understand it, the Walker is literally the biggest bang you can get in BP revolvers, true?
Yep. None bigger.

2. I read that the Dragoon was an "improved" version of the Walker, solving problems like the loading lever rattling loose during firing and the cylinder blowing up. I assume that a modern Walker will have better metallurgical properties than the originals, so exploding cylinders will not be an issue, provide you don't load a conical bullet backwards, of course. What about the lever? Still shakes loose or no longer an issue?
I don't know where scrat's coming from on this one. Yes, the Dragoon lever latch fixed the dropping lever problem. It was never installed on the Walker, however. And all the modern replicas are faithful to the original, faulty design. Original and modern replica Dragoons have the correct fixed design. As for cylinders, the modern replicas do not exhibit the grenade tendency.
3. Where to buy? Cabella's advertises a (Pietta I believe) walker for $400. Is that about the going price? Any secret place to get a better deal?
Uberti is the only company currently manufacturing the Walker. I don't believe Pietta ever did. Used guns made by Armi San Marco are often available; they're ok but lower quality. Palmetto made a Walker and you can occasionally find one but they are very disreputable. $400 would be a good market price; I'd call S&S Firearms (http://www.ssfirearms.com/download%20catalog.htm) also - they were the least expensive when I bought my Uberti.

4. Any particular brands to avoid?
Palmetto

5. Balls or bullets? I plan to use this guns mostly for plinking but also fo the occasional wild hog hunt.
The Walker is powerful enough that a round ball will do the job. Most people's experience with mini balls or conicals is that accuracy is reduced without much energy improvement.

6. I understand that is can be load to 60 grains of BP. Is this what folks typically use, or are you getting better results from lighter loads?
My most accurate Walker load is 45 grains, although the difference isn't much between that and 50 grains or even 55 grains.

7. The Walker has the rear sight integrated into the hammer, correct? I know this is probably blasphemy, but has anyone ever put better, barrel mounted sights on one? If so, were the results favorable?
Yes, there is a rear sight, consisting of a notch in the hammer. It's adequate for a pistol. I know of no rear sight mods for a Walker, although there was one for the Dragoon.

8. Does the Walker have the safety notches between the nipples like a New Army? The Walker has a topless frame (as opposed to the New Army's frame with a top strap), is the frame robust enough to last long-term?
No 'safety notches' in the cylinder. The frame (plus the cylinder arbor pin) is quite adequately robust over the long term. No frame or arbor pin failures have been recorded that I know of in any originals or modern replicas.

9. Are there any improvements or mods that should be done right out of the box to most Walkers?
Frankly, yes. If you ever wanted braces on your teeth I'd get them done ASAP, because once you touch one of these off you'll be grinning from ear to ear.

Get one and then come on over to the THR Walker Club.

[madcratebuilder]

mykeal covered it well. I'll add that my 2nd gen Colt Walker has a single pin on the back of the cylinder to capture the hammer between caps.

You might want to look at the Dragoon models. They are lighter, shorter barrel and cylinder. The loading lever has a much better latch design and does not have the falling problem that so many of the Walkers have. There are fixes for the Walker lever problem.

Colts specifies a load for the Walker of 35 to 55 grains with 50 recommended. The Dragoon specs at 35 to 40 grains with 37 recommended. Not as much energy from the Dragoon, but I can get almost 45 gr in mine, so it's close to the Walker.

Either revolver is a good choice, the Walker is the biggest, baddest black powder revolver I have ever shot.

[DoubleDeuce 1]

Look at The Possibles Shop for a price comparison. They list the Uberti Walker for $375.00.

I recently purchased two Uberti 1862 Colt Pocket Police revolvers from them. Don the owner is a very pleasant guy to do business with. He was very helpful with my questions regarding the revolvers. The Ubertis also don't have all of that Nerf/ tree hugging garbage stamped all over the barrel. The fit and finish was beautiful.:cool:

[scrat]

Woops i wrote that wrong. #2 the dragoon does have a loading lever catch. What i meant was the Walkers still have problems with the loading lever falling. There are quick fixes for it.

[AdmiralB]

Buffalo Arms generally has the lowest prices I find on Ubertis, and theirs all come through Cimarron. Cimarron seems to have better QC on the stuff they handle, and the resale tends to be better (plus the address rollmark is just plain cool).

Midway and Cabelas have the best return policies, though - no questions asked, and if it's defective they even credit you return shipping.

[mykeal]

Woops i wrote that wrong. #2 the dragoon does have a loading lever catch.
Ah, that's better. I knew you knew better than that.

I guess we can forgive one per year - gonna be a tough year from now on, though.:evil:

[AussieTH]

A couple of weeks ago a pic of an original 3rd Model Dragoon rear sight was put on these forums – but I cannot find it again now. It had a fixed centre and hinged forward and rear portion to adjust aim elevation.

Apparently they were fitted to the 3rd Draggies that were cut for shoulder stocks and therefore could employ a better sight system.

I did put an appeal to see if any replicas are still made but got no replies.

Having said that – I had an original 3rd Model in my hands a week or so ago (when I was buying my Uberti Dragoon) that was cut for stock and it did have a rear sight but it was a very simple fixed affair.

I will take a pic of it next time that I am at the dealers. I have to go back there as he has a very rare S & W BP revolving carbine that I want to photograph and put on these forums. It is a cute little thing – bit small for me though. It is being traded for an original Walker so must be worth quite a bit.

Anyway at least a handful of Walkers will get rear sights fitted. Rumbling along in the background is the Walker Long Range Express project and I want to fit the sights to these.

[madcratebuilder]

Quote:
Woops i wrote that wrong. #2 the dragoon does have a loading lever catch.
Ah, that's better. I knew you knew better than that.

I guess we can forgive one per year - gonna be a tough year from now on, though.

Your a hard man.;)

[BugSlayer]

I just bought a new Walker from Midway about 3 weeks ago. At that time I had called everybody that listed Walkers on their web sites and got the same story: The prices reflected the OLD pricing, there were none in stock, they did not have a definite delivery date, could not guarantee the low prices, etc., etc. The only place that had a Walker in stock was Midway and Cabela's and the prices were $400. Maybe now someone has them in stock. The auctions have them quite often, to to eBang.com and get a listing. Watch out though because the bidders get CRAZY and I have seen a used Uberti go for over $450 on a regular basis when you can buy it elsewhere for a lot less.

Good luck and good shooting!

[Tallship]

No 'safety notches' in the cylinder. The frame (plus the cylinder arbor pin) is quite adequately robust over the long term. No frame or arbor pin failures have been recorded that I know of in any originals or modern replicas.

Wait a second! Both my Uberti Walkers have ONE pin on the cylinder for the hammer to latch on to as a safety. Did the originals have this pin or not?

[madcratebuilder]

Wait a second! Both my Uberti Walkers have ONE pin on the cylinder for the hammer to latch on to as a safety. Did the originals have this pin or not?

I believe they did. My 2nd gen has a single safety pin.

[scrat]

Warhammer you still need to post in the Walker club and join.

[Fingers McGee]

Quote AussieTH
A couple of weeks ago a pic of an original 3rd Model Dragoon rear sight was put on these forums – but I cannot find it again now. It had a fixed centre and hinged forward and rear portion to adjust aim elevation.


You mean this picture?
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/Dragoonrearsight.jpg

[TheWarhammer]

Scrat- I still need to get a Walker before I can join the club!

A few more questions:

1: Anyone have a picture of the "safety pin" that Madcratebuilder and Tallship referred to?

2: If the Walker does best at 45 gr. loadings and the Dragoon can handle 40 gr., is there really any clear advantage to having the Walker vs. the Dragoon? Does 5 grains of BP and 1.5 inches of barrel make a substantial difference?

[mykeal]

2: If the Walker does best at 45 gr. loadings and the Dragoon can handle 40 gr., is there really any clear advantage to having the Walker vs. the Dragoon? Does 5 grains of BP and 1.5 inches of barrel make a substantial difference?
Well, when you put it that way, no. But then, you CAN put 60 gr in the Walker every once in a while, just for grins, or to clear out the wimps at the range, or whatever. Can't do that with the Dragoon....

[AussieTH]

Fingers - Yup - that is the one. Thanks Mate, good of you.

I have checked with VTI and Uberti never made the sight so they have no spare ones (or any others for that matter).

Anybody know where I can pick up anything like that - I may need up to about five of them.

Aye

Tony

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

XXXX

[Fingers McGee]

I have checked with VTI and Uberti never made the sight so they have no spare ones (or any others for that matter).

Anybody know where I can pick up anything like that - I may need up to about five of them.

Armi San Marco made some 3rd model dragoons back in the 70s that had the folding leaf sights on them. Probably arent any parts around for them though.

[Gaucho Gringo]

The last 2 or 3 Walkers on Gunbroker sold for $225-255.00. Of course they were used but looking at the pictures were in pretty good shape, although there are no guaranties when dealing with used guns.

[Pulp]

Warhammer, I don't have a photo of the pin, but all it is is a little bump on the back of the cylinder. When the cylinder is rotated 1/2 way the notch in the hammer will rest on the bump. It's not a positive lock, but it would take a deliberate effort to rotate the cylinder, unless you pulled the hammer back a bit.

I saw a photo here awhile back of a '51 Colt. It had six of the little pins.

[AussieTH]

Fingers (again). Thank you once more - this is the way that progress is made!

I belive ASM is now defunct - or is it. Is anything left of it doing anything, other than making batch lots of used tin cans to sell to plinkers?

Who were ASM's main distributor(s)?

Could be surprising what is left defunct in corners of parts stores!!!:what:

I can be patient and persistent and have a good example right now (different subject). I have been after one aircraft (only one of its kind in the world) for ten years. I was told most earnestly (by people not prepared to look) that I would never find it (as it had vanished) and certainly never get it.

I am looking at it right now - parked in my yard! Any of us can get anything we want - if we are prepared to research and do the required work.

I am going to get those rear sights - even if I have to have them custom made.

Aye

Tony

[Smokin_Gun]

Who were ASM's main distributor(s)?


ASM or Armi San Marcos sold to Cimarron, Dixie Gun Works, Navy Arms I think, to name a couple...they were about the one of the earliest Italian Mfg. besides Armi San Paolo. I think they closed the doors in 2002 not postitive.

[mykeal]

ASM was wholly acquired in 2000 by American Western Arms; the Italian assets were reorganized as American Western Arms Italia, production of percussion revolver products was ceased and the facilities were turned over to production of high quality replicas of the 1873 Colt Single Action Army revolver. In 2004 American Western Arms was reorganized as AWA, Inc. in Florida and the Italian factory renamed AWA International. Colt SAA parts made in the Italian factory were now assembled in the US. AWA apparently ceased operations in the firearms business in 2005, although there's some evidence that an individual attempted to continue production outside the AWA name. In any case the ASM Walker did not survive the 2000 reorganization.

[TheWarhammer]

I think I found the cylinder "safety" pin that has been referred to. It's part #41 in the drawing. It appears that the Dragoons have the same feature.
http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/schematics/1847Walker.gif

[SlamFire1]

I have a Third Model Dragoon. Supposedly has all the improvements.

Still a monster. These early revolvers are huge. Not something you carry on a belt.

They did not know the design limits of the steels. So they made the cylinders walls thick. If you notice, the cylinder walls got thinner over time, as they learned from experience.

The sights were way off. I managed to get a taller front sight, but the sucker falls out of the barrel notch and the gun shoots like 3 feet left at 25 yards.

My favorite to date is the New Model Remington made by Uberti. Much better design than the Colts.

For example, I don't have caps falling inbetween the hammer and the frame with a Remington. The nipples are angled to make it easier to put caps on. Pull the center pin and the cylinder comes out. Less parts, lots less screws and frame pieces. My Uberti came with an extra tall front sight, and was drift adjustable.

[armyof1]

There does not appear to be a SAFETY PIN on these drawings of a COLT WALKER .

[madcratebuilder]

I think the Walker just had a single pin, that is how my 2nd gen is.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

They certainly seemed to have covered about everything. There are plenty of 'attractive' fixes for the lever on a '47 but some of us have never experienced the problem of having the lever fall. I know I don't have that problem. When I snap it up into place it stay's there until I take hold of it and pull it down. I fire 48 grains of Triple Seven 3fff. Another member on here referred to on here as 'Bigbadgun' also state's that he has never had the problem of 'lever fall'. He state's that he fires 55 grains. (what type of powder I don't remember right off hand or if he has ever even stated what kind of powder he fires)....

[messerist]

GOTC I shoot a load just a skosh hotter(50 grs) and have yet to have the lever fall(knock on wood). The WALKER was NIB when I bought it and I have not made any modifications. Could it be possible that it may depend on the brand of WALKER? Mine is a Uberti.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Messerist, I don't know but it might have something to do with it. Mine is also a Uberti I bought new from Cabela's years ago. I never really thought about it Messerist but you could well be on to something....

[pohill]

Mine is an Uberti and the lever drops every time. I even replaced the latch but it still happens. I just figure it's "period correct" and deal with it.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

I hope mine don't ever start falling. If it does I'll post it on here I guess and try to get it fixed but I know that between the time it fall's and the time I get it fixed I wouldn't be sleeping much....