AR-15 or RA XCR?


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kcmarine
May 15, 2009, 08:28 PM
I've been looking at black rifles for quite some time now, and within a few days, I'll be of the age to purchase a firearm. I don't have the money saved up yet, but there will be a day.

Everyone knows about the AR-15. Available in more places than stereo, more parts than one could ever need, and a bunch of makers to choose from. The Ford F150 of rifles.

However, there is no longer such a thing as a "cheap" AR. If you can find one, they're usually expensive.

I also thought about the Robinson XCR. It's piston driven (start that old debate again and I will set fire to something of yours), is tool- less, has a piston which is as beefy as they come, and has its rails built- in. The folding stock is also a plus.

I've got a summer job coming up, and while I don't want to flush all of my cash with this rifle purchase, I'd like something. I might get assistance from my dad; not sure about that yet.

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dscottw88
May 15, 2009, 08:33 PM
I just read a review about XCR's posted by one of our own members here on THR and I believe it left much to be desired. AR15's on the other hand are everywhere and parts for them are everywhere. I'd tend to stick with the standard and just get that.

FlyinBryan
May 15, 2009, 09:02 PM
ya, i read that review also and it convinced me that i will never buy one.

like the ejector being a bolted on piece of flat tin held in place by a couple of speaker screws or something.

the ar is such a proven platform with such awesome support and after market parts, and more really good vendors than you can shake a stick at, not to mention, it defines the term "battle tested"

i would consider a standard bolt action or a levergun as the f150, and the ar as more of a mustang gt, and a really exotic version like jp or sabre to be the shelby cobra (same basic shape, but a lot more performance)

my bushmasters are the standard gt's, but i reload so they are on nitrous, just a 1/4 mile pass away from blowing the intake manifold.

(just kidding, they are great, i just read the internet machine too much)

gondorian
May 18, 2009, 01:29 PM
You know, there are a whole lot of EBR's besides the AR-15 and the XCR. If you give some more of your requirements there are many many people on this board who would recommend rifles for you. Not that there is anything wrong with either depending on what you want to use your rifle for.

ny32182
May 18, 2009, 02:00 PM
As awesome as the XCR is (yes, I actually own one and have a real opinion), if you just want one rifle, or are looking for a first rifle, I would get an AR15 rather than a proprietary design of any sort, including the XCR. The huge bredth of parts available for a generic design is too much to ignore.

IndianaBoy
May 18, 2009, 02:24 PM
An AR-15 is easy to maintain, reliable, magazines are cheap, ammo is.. well.. available... 22 conversions are available for cheap and reliable practice. Parts are everywhere, they are easy to adapt for different purposes.


They are popular for a reason. Drive over here to Columbia and visit Black Rifles on Vandiver. You can walk out the door tomorrow with an AR for ~999.

There is no need to play the internet waiting game, you are 1:45 from Columbia. They have every configuration you could imagine. KISS carbines with irons for ~999 up to 2.5k tricked out HBARS with an Acog on top.

BullpupBen
May 18, 2009, 08:32 PM
I would get the XCR- it should be inherently more reliable because of its gas-piston and Ak bolt. among other things. It can also take folding stocks and has excellent accuracy for a gas piston rifle. It is also very sexy.

elmerfudd
May 18, 2009, 11:24 PM
I'll testify to the accuracy of the XCR. I've never owned one or shot one, but I watched a guy at the range shooting what appeared to be consistent MOA groups with one. I was doing my own shooting, so I didn't pay all that much attention, but what I saw was that he had shot about 5 groups at 100 yards and maybe one of them was larger than an inch. I was really impressed.

MTMilitiaman
May 19, 2009, 01:39 AM
SIG 556 Classic for the win.

MarineOne
May 19, 2009, 02:12 AM
CDNN had a sale recently with AR's for $899 and $999. You can always check them out.



Kris

anthony-white
May 19, 2009, 08:55 AM
dont let one persons review convince you not to try a weapon. I have nearly 6k through my xcr, without any failures. There's six of us locally that have them and none of the problems seen in that review have hit any of us. I guarantee you that if you look there's tons of reviews that the "failure prone" :banghead: DI AR15, yet they still are in use by quite a few people. The AR is going to be considerably cheaper if you go with a standard one. I love my xcr and sold off my AR's after being assured by its reliability and ergonomics.

dscottw88
May 19, 2009, 02:23 PM
Again, the thing about the XCR is that you have a system that only one company is supplying parts for. If something breaks, you have to go to RobArms, and only RobArms to get a part. And judging from this review that I just read, you very well may have something come loose or break on you within some point in its lifespan.

it should be inherently more reliable because of its gas-piston and Ak bolt

This stuff always makes me chuckle. My AR's dont jam, and everyone I know who has an AR, their's dont jam. Do a thread search on AR reliablility and you will see lots and lots of people who are plenty happy with their ARs. Paying double for a rifle that fixes a nonexistant problem just sounds silly.

BullpupBen
May 19, 2009, 09:37 PM
This stuff always makes me chuckle. My AR's dont jam, and everyone I know who has an AR, their's dont jam. Do a thread search on AR reliablility and you will see lots and lots of people who are plenty happy with their ARs. Paying double for a rifle that fixes a nonexistant problem just sounds silly.

If all your doing is taking it to the range and shooting it, or even hunting with then a properly maintained AR should not jam. If however, you are in combat conditions where there is dust in the air, dont have access to cleaning supplies, and dirt may be getting in your ammo or magazines, then you better believe they jam and there is plenty of evidence coming from Iraq and Afghanistan right now that supports this.
Do guns with gas pistons have the magical ability to never jam? no, of course not. however they are far less prone to dirty ammo or environments than DI guns.

FlyinBryan
May 19, 2009, 09:44 PM
after doing some research on the xcr, i have decided not to look any further into purchasing one. its just a terrible design. a cant say that i find one feature that improves upon a standard d.i. ar15.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 19, 2009, 09:45 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/search.php?searchid=6037400

"for the win". :p

However, don't buy an XCR with expectations of match accuracy - that's not its forte.

its just a terrible design.

Would you care to elaborate? There are multiple significant improvements over the AR15 as a fighting rifle, as mentioned in the many threads linked to above. Not much debate about that by those "in the know".

Quick summary

1. Charging handle in the "right" place (for most) - on the left side.
2. Two-way bolt control (yet STILL non-reciprocating).
3. Long-stroke AK style gas piston - nothing on earth more reliable in semi-auto (note: superior to even a short-stroke D.I. "ar15").
4. Lower line of sight on optics.
5. Folding stock.
6. Adjustable gas system.
7. Monolithic receiver with integral rails.
8. Tool-less, quick-change barrels.
9. Nearly "instant opening" receiver, FAL-style.
10. Ultra-simple parts system makes for very very easy disassembly, cleaning, & re-assembly.
11. Better "standard trigger" (than MOST AR15s, but still not a great one).

Hmmm.... #s 1, 2, 3, and 4 are the most important. #6 second-most. #s 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, & 11 less important (and for some, unimportant). Of course, the FN SCAR and the Masada/ACR adopted many of these for a reason.

But drawbacks are slightly more weight, and arguably #4 is a drawback (slightly more muzzle flip) due to less "straight-back" recoil. I also doubt that accuracy, on average, can match an AR15.

FlyinBryan
May 19, 2009, 10:35 PM
Would you care to elaborate?

wouldnt you rather just have my apology?

my opinion would surely be mute, so im gonna have to pass.


Dr Tad for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!l

lol.

UKJ
May 19, 2009, 10:55 PM
How about the best of all possible worlds - a piston LMT? You get all the scrummy AR goodness you would come to expect with the platform combined with a soft shooting piston system and a high degree of quality and workmanship.

The gas piston LMT - you know it makes sense (unless you've already spent a bundle of cash on your DI or enjoy cleaning guns a lot).

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 19, 2009, 11:10 PM
You get all the scrummy AR goodness

including the lack of #1 - 10 above. :)

dscottw88
May 20, 2009, 12:10 AM
there is plenty of evidence coming from Iraq and Afghanistan right now that supports this.

This thread shows otherwise.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=432922

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