Which would you choose for pocket carry?


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DMK
October 16, 2003, 03:03 PM
Which would you, or did you, choose for pocket carry.

If you have experience with the P9 or PM9, please comment.

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Ala Dan
October 16, 2003, 03:48 PM
Hello!

I voted for the Airweight J-frame revolver from S&W.
Models 37, 637, 38, and 638 come to mind; but there
are others.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

tomkatz
October 16, 2003, 04:33 PM
I like the airweights with the totally enclosed hammer for pocket carry, I carry a nickel 442 this way.....tom

10-Ring
October 16, 2003, 04:35 PM
The j-frame is a tough choice to overlook. Regard less of what I have, I keep going back to it.

atek3
October 16, 2003, 04:37 PM
Glock 36. Big pockets though.

atek3

Brian Williams
October 16, 2003, 04:47 PM
I have and use a S&W 940, would love to have a 942, that would rock, lightweight, chambered in an adequate round with good bullets for penetration and expansion, with the moonclip reload.
Maybe someday I'll get a 442 or a 042 and put a 940 cylinder in it. I have already put the 940 cylinder in my 60 -4 with adj sights and it is great, but I need to get a 3" ejector rod that matches the cylinder.


voted lightweight J

denfoote
October 16, 2003, 05:27 PM
I have two pocket carry pistols.
Taurus M605 .357MAG and Kahr MK9.
Both are equally effective.

DDGator
October 16, 2003, 05:28 PM
I picked Airweight J-frame since my 442 is my preferred carry, but I carry my P-3AT in my pocket a lot too.

//Shamless Plug On//

I make holsters for both. See my website at: www.KDHolsters.com

//Shamless Plug Off//

jercamp45
October 16, 2003, 06:39 PM
I have had an on again, off again interest in the Jay for nearly 3 decades(well, the first was a Charter Arms...same concept, but not a true 'Jay').
Trouble is/was I cannot find anything that is as reliable, as powerful, as hideable, as versatile in locative placement(think I just invented that term) than the Jay. I get one, I shoot it, carry it...then sell it or trade it for something 'new and improved' then I buy another one a couple years down the road...cause what I though would replace it did not.
I do have an interest in the PM9.....but, till I hear the polymer bugs worked out, I'll stick with the Jay...and maybe keep this one. Got a 637 airweight, using 158 gr plus p LSWCHP.
HEY...Anyone know where I can find a pair of those old Bianchi Lightning grips that shroud the hammer? Jay,not Kay.
It is a back up piece in a pocket holster mostly, but I have tried the jay in alot of places...just never got into the whole ankle thing. I really have an issue about putting my exposed face closer to the BG's foot!
If I had kept them all...I'd have five or six by now...not counting the Taurus, the Colt Agent, the Charter Arms Undercover, Pathfinder and Bulldog. It was a productive experiment, though costly monetarily.
The Jay and the 1911 are right up there in Americana weapons evolution...the Pennsylvania/Kentucky Rifle, Hawken, Colt Revolvers, Bowie Knives, Winchester rifles and shotguns....Gatling, Browning, Stoner......ah, America's Awesome Artifacts.
Oh, in a recent conversation...a friend and I bestowed upon Mr Jonathan Moses Browning the Honorary Title, of Ambassador....Full Auto Ambassador, a designer called on when all other means have failed or will not be effective. Do we have the power to do this...? Naw, but Beer has away of inflating the male ego to intolerable levels of machismo! Must be all that healthy barley and stuff.
What he has to do with the Jay frame....? I have no idea. I plead middleaged senility, meandering mind, and gratuitous gun gossip!
Jercamp45

E=MC^2
October 16, 2003, 10:24 PM
I voted for the J-Frame revolver.

I carry a S&W 340PD in the breast pocket of my coveralls all day long. At 12oz, it's easy to forget it's even there. It's a .357, but I fire .38+P almost exclusively.

I like the airweights with the totally enclosed hammer for pocket carry, I carry a nickel 442 this way.....tom

I agree, tom. Owning both, I much prefer the Centenial(non-visible hammer) styles best. In a defensive situation, I cannot think of a single scenario where I'd be required to cock a hammer. I've heard of BG's being scared off by the cocking sound before, but I'd rather rely on a commanding voice instead.

One thing I'd recomend is a tritium front sight. Although I don't currently have one on my S&W J-frame, I do have one on my Ruger SP101. It seems to come in really handy on low-light simulations. I've just been to lazy to order one for the Smith.

Standing Wolf
October 16, 2003, 10:28 PM
I carry a pre-agreement Smith & Wesson model 60 five-shooter in .357 magnum. It's bulkier than little nine-millimeter guns, but packs more punch.

Kor
October 17, 2003, 03:29 AM
I also voted for the airweight J-frame - the specific one I ALWAYS carry in my weak-side front pocket is the S&W 642. My reasons for favoring this particular gun above all others are:

- The DAO, completely-enclosed-hammer design of the Centennials ABSOLUTELY prevents pocket lint from migrating into the gun's innards and fouling/jamming the lockwork. Even carried inside a pocket holster, you'll still find a shocking amount of lint on the gun if you carry it EVERY SINGLE DAY.

- A gun that weighs much more than a pound will make its presence known in your pocket much more than a lighter gun. The 15oz Airweights seem to be just about right when balancing light carry weight against the shootability of a heavier gun - the Airweights are a handful to shoot, but if you've got the right mindset, attitude and training you can shoot them well. Lighter than a pound(i.e. titanium/scandium guns), and guns start getting nasty to shoot(my Kel-Tec P3AT is right on the ragged edge of being uncontrollable).

- I personally find that snubby revolvers are easier to draw from a pocket than autos. Semi-auto pistols have all kinds of corners on them, and though they may be rounded and de-horned, I find they STILL hang up when I'm trying to quick-draw one from a pocket. By contrast, the contours of a S&W Centennial seem to flow out of my pocket MUCH more readily. Also, unless you have a REALLY small pocket auto(Beretta .22, Kel-Tec, NAA Guardian) those straight lines and corners tend to make a distinctively gun-shaped silhouette in your pants, pocket holster notwithstanding; a snubby revolver has a thicker but much less distinct signature in your pocket(i.e. you've got something in your pocket, but I can't tell for sure that it's a gun).

Now, with that said, my P3AT is just SO light and small that I'm seriously considering carrying it as well, in my OTHER pocket...

SnWnMe
October 17, 2003, 05:29 AM
World's most popular last ditch gun: the J frame

MikeJ
October 17, 2003, 09:43 AM
I voted other semi-auto simply because I find it difficult to always carry a J frame in my pocket. My always gun is a NAA Guardian .32 but when I can carry it I much prefer a J frame. Best, Mike

MrPink
October 17, 2003, 09:53 AM
I voted for the airweight J frame. While I have used pretty much all of them, my current fav is the 340PD loaded with lite 125 grain 357s.

TheeBadOne
October 17, 2003, 10:01 AM
I love my Kahr MK-9 and intend to upgrade someday to the PM-9.

22luvr
October 17, 2003, 11:48 AM
Toted a Smith mod 638 Bodyguard and now tote a Smith mod 340SC Scandium .357 mag. Other than capacity, you can't beat the no-brainer simplicity and reliability of a snubby.:evil:

DMK
October 17, 2003, 12:00 PM
Wow! A lot more people than I expected responded in favor of the J-frame. I would have thought that more would go with the semi-autos being smaller, thinner and higher capacity.

I guess a revolver for pocket carry makes a lot of sense though when you consider reliability with dust and lint or firing from within the pocket.

fastbolt
October 17, 2003, 01:33 PM
My current 642-1 became my off-duty J-frame, replacing my earlier 649 Bodyguard and a DAO Ruger SP-101 in .357 Magnum. The 649 & Ruger were just too heavy for true pocket carry ... for ME ... while the 642-1 is light enough to almost forget I'm carrying it, especially in my leather or denim motorcycle jackets. I also like that my 642-1 is rated for +P.

The other night at the range this question came up ... again ... about the lightest and most comfortable "all-the-time" off-duty weapon, and the answer was overwhelmingly one of the latest J-frames. Currently, without exception, all of the firearms instructors now own and carry one version or another of the latest S&W J-frames when on their own time.

One of the folks asking the question this latest instance was wondering if there was a smaller & lighter off-duty weapon he might use, instead of his 457 .45 or his new SW99 .40 Compact. He really likes both of these weapons ... and shoots them very well ... but they really require belt carry of some sort or another, and he's at that point where he wants something that can easily conceal in a pants pocket ... and which still possesses a "sufficient" level of defensive capability should he REALLY need it. He was very impressed with the Ti Airweight that appeared out of one of the other instructor's front pant's pocket ...

While the PM9 is a neat little weapon, being very slim, I just don't have the degree of trust in it ... yet ... to consider buying one. One of the guys that just bought one has had mixed experiences so far, while trying to qualify with it at 2 range sessions. In the first session it functioned fine, and in the next session it experienced repeated extraction/ejection malfunctions ... while shooting standard 147gr JHP training ammunition (Winchester Personal Protection) from the same shipment. Maybe later ...

I had a good experience recently with a NIB MK40 someone brought to the range for qualification, as it functioned fine for the 150+ rounds we fired through it. I just think it's about as adaptable to "pocket carry" as my Ruger SP-101, weight and bulk-wise, and my Quad-Ported SP-101 is significantly easier and faster to shoot accurately (and that's with 125gr Magnum ammunition).

I don't consider the .380 as being on the "comfortable" side of where I personally draw the line for a "minimum" defensive handgun caliber anymore, although I know a handful of our folks that do feel comfortable carrying them. Just not me ...

kalibear45
October 17, 2003, 03:21 PM
Walther PPK

keederdag
October 17, 2003, 03:31 PM
Most the guns you got there are tooooo big fer my pockets. I carry one in my pocket every day, and It's smaller (slightly than the P3AT) than any of those, but still a touche uncomfey some times. You must have some HUUUGE pockets dude. My wife carries a p-32, but it's not an accurate pistol. More like a 7 yard point and shooter. They also come with some factory gliches you have to deal with before they are 100% in the reliability dept, like rim-lock with hollow points. The P3AT should not have this prob, but kel-tec still lacks in the accuracy dept. for my needs. I shoot mine very very very often, to dispatch nasty little critters, and I need the bullets to go where I put the sights. Exactly.:)

Archie
October 17, 2003, 04:28 PM
I have a S&W model 10. It is cut down just forward of the extractor rod catch and round butted. And de-spurred.
It fits in my right trouser pocket nicely. There's a speed loader in there with it.

Maybe if I lose the weight I need to lose it may be too big, but for now it's just dandy.

jdege
October 17, 2003, 05:03 PM
I've been carrying, and shooting regularly with, my PM9 for several months, now.

It's been absolutely reliable, reasonably accurate, and extremely comfortable to carry.

There may be other guns as good for CCW, but I can't conceive of one that would be better.

Certainly it out-classes my old Kel-Tec P11, in every way save price. (And while it's not quite as accurate as my Beretta and my CZ, it's a lot easier to lug around.)

I'm using a FIST K1 holster, with all belt-loops removed, and some stick-on 3M velcro from the hardware store stuck on the outside of the holster.

This sticks to an elastic belt with sew-on velcro from the fabric store sewn to the inside of the belt, which I then wear inside my pants, over the tail of my shirt.

I position the holster in different places, depending upon my dress. With khakis and a polo shirt, it's entirely below the belt, where I can grab my belt with my thumb, and the bottom of the holster with the tips of my fingers through the fabric of my slacks, so as to quickly pull it into an IWB position.

If I'm wearing a jacket, I might pull it into IWB position.

In fact, the PM9's small enough that I can pull it into a low-seated IWB position, and just blouse a bit of short over it, and rarely draw attention.

I originally started wearing it this way in response to my difficulties with "tuckable" IWB holsters - I found it very difficult to get my shirt tail tucked into the gap in the holster, while holding up my unbuckled pants and the weight of the holstered gun. I thought it'd be easier to buckle the elastic belt over my shorts, lay the shirt over that, and then put on my pants. And it is. But I've found that it's faster, for me, to pull the holster up to an IWB position from below the belt line than it is to pull my shirt tail out of the way.

When I'm wearing a winter coat, I pull the entire holster out, and stick it into my coat pocket, where I've sewn another bit of velcro.

When I'm going somewhere I can't carry, again the entire holster comes out, and goes into a day planner with the guts removed, and yet more velcro. This gives me the option of carrying it into a restroom to put it on again, without scaring the natives. (I'm no great fan of off-body carry, and would not recommend a dayplanner as a normal means of carry).

I haven't, as yet, tried to carry with this gun and holster in a pants pocket - I only do pocket carry in my winter coat, which I haven't needed to do very often, so far.

I really like the ability to move the gun around without unholstering it. At home, again, it comes off the belt and into the box, without coming out of the holster.

keederdag
October 17, 2003, 09:07 PM
Archie; you have one of those Kali CCW's? What are there, like ten?:confused:

PCRCCW
October 17, 2003, 11:05 PM
As much as I love my CZ's and all the rest of the S/Autos....Kahrs, Maks and suck...my first love and always IMO the best is a J frame. Period.

Shoot well............................................................................................

P95Carry
October 17, 2003, 11:26 PM
Well ... I voted KelTec P3-AT .. taking 'pocket' literally. I love small revos but do find the cyl bulge a problem for true pocket carry.

I still await my P3-AT and think this is about the size limit of choice for my pocket tho ... whilst I haven't tried it much yet ..... I think my Bersa would just about pass muster.

telewinz
October 18, 2003, 07:06 PM
Kel-Tec P-11....power(9mm luger), compact, lightweight, capacity(10), accuracy and reliability, it has it all.

farscott
October 18, 2003, 08:28 PM
My choice is the Airlite Centennial in .38 Special, the M342PD. My sample is my "always" gun; it is always in my right front pocket in a Kramer pocket holster. It is light enough that it can be worn with dress slacks.

While autoloaders are thinner and some are lighter, I refuse to carry an autoloader in a pocket due to "pocket lint" which could wreak havoc with the function of an autoloader. The hidden hammer of the Centennial keeps pocket debris out of the gun, and I can be sure the gun will go bang when it needs to do so. The Centennial also has no protrusions to snag during the draw.

JNewell
October 18, 2003, 08:47 PM
YMMV but in my pockets the J-frame is better in two respects.

First, I can get a very nearly perfect firing grip while it's still in the pocket, and draw without breaking that grip. I can't do that with my MK9.

Second, the J-frame is much less visible in the pockets. Fewer sharp corners and flat surfaces, I guess. For whatever reason, much harder to detect.

telewinz
October 18, 2003, 10:29 PM
I have a J-frame and a PPK also and the ONLY reason I choose the P11 over them is the M36's limited (5 rds) capacity and the PPK's power (380). I doubt that the DAO design of the P11 would have much trouble with lint but I concede that a semi will always be less reliable than a revolver. But IMHO the extra 5-6 rounds and greater power of the P11 more than makes up for the slight loss of reliability.

Texas Bob
October 19, 2003, 12:18 AM
I voted for the PM9 because that and a P9 are what I carry in a pocket. Yes, I also use an airweight bodyguard in a Kramer pocket holster. The "original" question asked about the pocket carry of the Kahr P series. You must make sure your pocket and holster size are a "good fit." If the pocket is to big for your PM9 and it "shifts" just a little to much the rear sight will begin to wear through your pocket. How big certain pants pockets are determine which pocket holster/gun combination I use. In a pair of jeans that aren't to tight, the PM9 in a Hedley pocket holster looks like I have a PDA in my pocket. In my work pants, my P9 rides in an Uncle Mikes pocket holster, and with casual dockers, my hand is on a Jay if I reach in my pocket.:)

makarov1989
October 19, 2003, 01:10 AM
The revolvers can actually be fired from inside a coat pocket. An auto will almost certainly jam after the first shot. I know because I have tried it with some old coats. It sounds like no big deal until you have ever had a snubbie in your coat pocket and were able to have your hand on it with it pointed at someone whom you feared might turn ugly. The fact is, a lot of muggers/criminals, will come up to you and ask for a light or directions or some other way of getting in close and then they draw a weapon or someone comes up behind you. In a society, we can't go around drawing our guns everytime we feel threatend but we can point a snubbie at someone through a jacket pocket.

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