Discovery Channel "Pig Bomb"


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sbarkowski
May 17, 2009, 10:35 PM
Anybody else catching this show? Its really informative. Don't have pigs in our area (thank god apprently). Never knew what others had to deal with and how distructive and dangerous these things were. This show's definately worth watching, especially for you hog hunters.

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xmanpike
May 17, 2009, 10:38 PM
Yeah I thoguht the most interesting fact was: "To control an established population of pigs, you need to kill 7 of every 10 pigs." I guess due to the fact that they breed so often, and have a high survival rate.

Titan6
May 17, 2009, 10:38 PM
Saw part of it last week. I think the bomb already went off many years ago. The problem is some states don't like the solution (no bag limit hunting in all areas).

sbarkowski
May 17, 2009, 10:42 PM
Can breed as early as 5 months old, up to 4 litters a year, each litter containing an average of 6. I think thats what I heard. Thats just insane!

alsaqr
May 17, 2009, 10:54 PM
Watched the Pig Bomb" couple of weeks ago. The part about the crop and environmental damage done by wild hogs is all true. In this part of OK wild hogs are starting to have an adverse effect on the deer population.

Yep, a sow can have two or three litters per year. A sow in the wild will not have three litters per year even in the best of times. Very few wild sows have two litters per year: This only happens in years when there are lots of acorns and pecans to eat.

I hunt hogs at least twice per week all year long. Have been doing this for many years. Contrary to popular opinion, pigs in the wild do not have a high survival rate. Yep, sows sometimes have big litters. Very few of those wild sows raise the entire litter to weaning time. Have seen dozens of wild sows running with 6 or more little pigs. When the pigs get to about 20 pounds there are usually four or fewer of them left. It is quite common here to see a sow with just one 20 pound pig.

Coyotes, bobcats, and disease kill many more pigs than are raised to 6 months of age.

chas08
May 17, 2009, 11:05 PM
Can breed as early as 5 months old, up to 4 litters a year, each litter containing an average of 6. I think thats what I heard. Thats just insane!

No... Thats just hogs. They're like a fire you can't put out. :fire: Anyone who wishes for these vermin on their hunting grounds is a fool. I've killed well in excess of 200 of these vermin with a rifle (56 in one year) . And help to trap a few hundred more and we're still loosing the war.:cuss:

~z
May 18, 2009, 04:34 PM
Anyone know when this show will air again? I keep missing it!
~z

camoman33935
May 18, 2009, 04:39 PM
you might be able to find it on youtube

on second hand...here it is right on discovery channels website

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/pig-bomb-the-ruinous-pig.html

the whole thing is broke up in sections...

rondog
May 18, 2009, 05:36 PM
I've seen it. Interesting subject, but IMO the show itself is pretty lame, they could have done a much better job on the show. It's like they had 15 minutes of material to make a 60 minute show with. Lots of repeated information and footage shown over and over.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 19, 2009, 10:08 AM
http://www.uga.edu/scwds/dist_maps/swine04.jpg

Double Naught Spy
May 19, 2009, 11:43 AM
While the show is interesting, I found parts troubling. They seemed to be trying to connect the "pig bomb" with the Russian boars, if just by plain association, even though there is no reported genetic evidence (as per the show) to support the supposed influx of Russian boar genetic contributions to account for the phenotypes being seen and reported as Russian boar. The problem with phenotypes is that many of the feral hog phenotypes seem to match Russian boar phenotypes and so you have people calling lots of pigs Russian boars when they are just feral.

The show also sensationalized the whole notion of the Russian boar to the point that they even identified a very large Russian boar on a game camera digital image based solely on eye shine. From the eye shine, they extrapolated Russian boar features not in evidence in the photo.

So the pig bomb in the US is tied with the Russian boar within the program, but there was no accounting for how Russian boars would be responsible for this phenomenon. Strangely, the same thing is going on elsewhere in the world, such as in Europe where the boars are indigenous. Why is the pig bomb going off over there as well? Have they had a recent influx of themselves?

While there isn't any doubt that the populations of feral hogs is growing and spreading in the US, the show was just hokey in the sense that the one aspect they needed to really substantiate several points, genetic evidence, was not in evidence for the show and so much of their claims were just suppositions.

Is the feral hog population actually getting larger (individual animal size) and more aggressive because of Russian boar genetics or is it because of a combination of feral hog phenotypes combined with a highly competitive environment. As the population grows, competition increases. One potential result is increased aggression.

It is an interesting show, but it has a lot of hype.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 19, 2009, 08:26 PM
Gleaned from the map I posted a link to above - my guesstimates.

Top 28 states with largest areas available for feral hog hunting (roughly in order):

1. Texas
2. California
3. Florida
4. Mississippi
5. Georgia
6. Louisiana
7. (tie) Arkansas / New Mexico
9. Alabama
10. Oklahoma
11. North Carolina
12. (tie) Tennessee / Hawaii
14. South Carolina
15. Missouri
16. Kansas
17. (tie) West Virginia / Oregon
19. Arizona
20. Indiana
21. (tie) Wisconsin / Illinois / Ohio
24. (tie) Virginia / Kentucky / Nevada / New Hampshire
28. Nebraska

Surprising to me that New Mexico is ahead of Alabama, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Tennessee, Hawaii, & South Carolina - not sure if the map is accurate.

alsaqr
May 19, 2009, 11:32 PM
The show also sensationalized the whole notion of the Russian boar to the point that they even identified a very large Russian boar on a game camera digital image based solely on eye shine. From the eye shine, they extrapolated Russian boar features not in evidence in the photo.


Good point!

There are quite a few hogs with Russian boar blood in this area. Some are pure Russian boar. Russian (German) boars are here because a rather rich guy imported 100 pairs from Germany and turned them loose in SW Oklahoma. In other parts of OK there is no evidence of Russian boar blood in feral hogs.

That show totally ignored the one sure fire method of determining whether or not the hog in question is cross between a domestic hog and a Russian boar.


Only Hybrid Wild Boar will have this tooth. Hybrid is a cross breed between domestic hogs and the Eurasian Hog (Russian Boar). Domestic hogs or domestic feral hogs will not have this tooth.

(Go to boartuff for all your hog info, such as aging.)

http://www.boartuffoutdoors.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=hog;action=display;num=1141873299

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 20, 2009, 10:14 AM
What county were these 100 pairs released in?

~z
May 20, 2009, 10:46 AM
Nevermind
~z

sbarkowski
May 21, 2009, 05:41 PM
When they came up with the idea of the eyes being that of a Russian boar, they were in Russia.. but who knows maybe it wasnt even a boar at all.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 22, 2009, 11:31 AM
Yeah, could have been a wolf - the eyes were forward-looking like predator eyes - I'd much rather tangle with a boar than a wolf! But neither would be my first choice for my daily activity.

alsaqr
May 23, 2009, 08:32 AM
What county were these 100 pairs released in?


Comanche and Kiowa.

bigbore442001
May 23, 2009, 09:00 AM
I don't want to drift this thread too much but if the feral hog population is such a problem why aren't landownders more receptive to hunters helping to thin them out? You'ld think that a number of ranches would offer coffee and doughnuts for hunters to take out feral hogs.

alsaqr
May 23, 2009, 11:40 AM
I don't want to drift this thread too much but if the feral hog population is such a problem why aren't landownders more receptive to hunters helping to thin them out?


Very good point.

~z
May 24, 2009, 01:07 PM
Some are, however, these are cultivated relationships. How often do you open your door to a stranger with a gun?
~z

Flash!
May 28, 2009, 12:16 AM
if any of you have a place in Texas that I can go help to reduce the hog population, please let me know.... they are tasty critters.

Todd1700
May 28, 2009, 05:00 AM
Saw this show a while back. It is true that the hog population has exploded and this has caused some problems like crop and land damage. Hogs also compete with other more desirable big game animals for local resources and that's bad as well. We consider them a shoot on sight pest on our land. All that said, the show really ridiculously overstated the danger these animals pose to humans. The only people I have ever heard of being injured by a hog were a few of the folks that used to go out and catch them with dogs. And those folks got bitten or slashed because they were (along with the catch dogs) grabbing a live hog trying to capture it. Grab any live wild animal, be it a squirrel, beaver, rabbit, or you name it, and it will try to bite you. Wild hogs are no different. But as far as being a danger to someone just walking through the woods? Naaaa, they will run like a deer at the first sight of a human.

alsaqr
May 28, 2009, 08:13 AM
The only people I have ever heard of being injured by a hog were a few of the folks that used to go out and catch them with dogs.


The ones with Russian/German boar blood can be a little different. A friend was knocked down last year by a big sow without pigs that made a sudden unprovoked charge. He got some small cuts on his face. After knocking the guy down, that hog turned and came back at him. By that time my friend had his .45 out and he killed her.

Have been charged by three different hogs, one a wounded boar, one a sow with pigs and another time by a boar that answered the distress call of a wounded sow that I went into a plum thicket after.

Having said that, they ain't rinos and it does this 70 year old guy good to get his heart pumping now and then. It is all part of the fun of hog hunting. I do now wear chainsaw pants when going into a thicket after a hog.

There is a huge boar on one of our places. I named him Osama bin Laden. Started into a plum thicket after OBL a month or so ago and suddenly felt naked with just my muzzleloader: Backed out and called it quits-for now.

KenWP
May 28, 2009, 09:35 AM
Pigs breed according to the amount of daylight so the southren states have daylight that is about average all year round. In the wild you would be lucky to get a couple of litters a year but even if a sow has only 4 pigs survive your looking at 4 times the amount of pigs you had.
Wild pigs do not get there teeth cut at birth so you get a lot more starve outs due to them fighting and biteing mom and she rolls over and crushes them.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 28, 2009, 01:24 PM
That'd be 2 times as many as "the amount of pigs you had" - 2 parents, 4 offspring. :) :p

Double Naught Spy
May 28, 2009, 06:17 PM
That show totally ignored the one sure fire method of determining whether or not the hog in question is cross between a domestic hog and a Russian boar.


Quote:
Only Hybrid Wild Boar will have this tooth. Hybrid is a cross breed between domestic hogs and the Eurasian Hog (Russian Boar). Domestic hogs or domestic feral hogs will not have this tooth.
(Go to boartuff for all your hog info, such as aging.)

http://www.boartuffoutdoors.com/cgi-...num=1141873299

It is also called the "Euro-tooth." So far, the only references that I can find to support the claim that this is indicative of a Russian boar/feral hog mix is the site cited above. The other sites that mention this that I have found all refer to this one site or at least to the same set of images. For example...
http://www.hunting-in-texas.com/learnhogs.htm
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319207
http://www.texasboars.com/articles/aging.html

I am sorry. I have seen this before and I have to laugh. That is a vestigial LPM1 (lower first premolar, adult tooth)!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D

I have yet to see anything in my veterinary or osteology texts that support that crossing feral hogs and Russian boars produces this vestigial tooth, especially when it is a tooth that shows up in domestic hogs!!!!!!

http://www.d91.k12.id.us/skyline/teachers/robertsd/pig.htm
http://www.skullsite.co.uk/Pig/pigdom.htm

In fact, that tooth shows up as part of the dental formula for hogs which is

3 1 4 3
______
3 1 4 3

Why is it a vestigial? It is something of a remnant tooth. Many other artiodactyls have all but totally lost the tooth, but it still shows up in regularly in Suidae (pig family). Rarely, you will find a white-tailed deer with one or two vestigial LPM1s as something of a throwback.

Do the vestigial LPM1s always show up in domestic pigs? Nope. They are vestigial. Sometimes they are not there or when they are there they are smaller than their other PM counterparts, less well formed. They are a tooth being evolutionarily lost.

I really have to wonder how it is that folks come up with this stuff and pass it off as being some sort of diagnostic fact. :banghead::banghead:

Go look up pictures of domestic pigs on the internet and teeth like I showed you above and you will see that non-feral domestic pigs have this tooth with remarkable regularity.

First of all, there is no real biological stage of being "feral." The authors are treating "feral" as a biological entity that doesn't exist as an entity. So to say that the tooth is diagnostic of a cross between a feral hog and a Russian boar is garbage. Secondly, there is no information other than that one set of pictures on the internet that seems to support the claim.

alemonkey
May 29, 2009, 10:53 PM
Top 28 states with largest areas available for feral hog hunting (roughly in order):

1. Texas
2. California
3. Florida

....
28. Nebraska

Except it's illegal to hunt pigs in Nebraska. They don't want people to introduce them, so the thought is if hunting is illegal no one will introduce any.

There are rumors of wild pig herds in the state, though, and I'm guessing it's just a matter of time. Hopefully if the population does grow the state govt will be farsighted enough to allow hunting to control them.

txman321
June 3, 2009, 04:49 PM
hogs are crazy i see them every now and then but I cant shoot them cause i see them on someone elses land

jimmertoons
June 4, 2009, 02:07 AM
Ferals have started moving into Colorado. The state DOW has reclassified them as a nuisence animal, no season, no limit, no license required. The only limit is no one is allowed to charge for guiding.

rondog
June 4, 2009, 02:17 AM
Ferals have started moving into Colorado. The state DOW has reclassified them as a nuisence animal, no season, no limit, no license required. The only limit is no one is allowed to charge for guiding.

Really? Where at?

TX Hog Hunter
June 10, 2009, 11:40 PM
For anyone who hasn't seen this it's showing twice next Mon night on Discovery.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 11, 2009, 12:02 AM
Except it's illegal to hunt pigs in Nebraska. They don't want people to introduce them, so the thought is if hunting is illegal no one will introduce any.

That's an interesting approach to take and I'll bet it works to a degree. At least until they're overrun eventually, at which time they'll change it to open season like the other states.

Harve Curry
June 11, 2009, 10:27 AM
Ferals have started moving into Colorado. The state DOW has reclassified them as a nuisence animal, no season, no limit, no license required. The only limit is no one is allowed to charge for guiding.
Being a self employed guide I don't like that rule:barf:
What ever happened to free enterprise and capitalism:)

I never hunted hogs but I'd like to try them with my old Spencer carbine. Does anyone know where in New Mexico?

Marlin 45 carbine
June 11, 2009, 12:02 PM
my home is in the S-W corner of North Carolina. there's lots of them here and they are wary. about the only way to hunt them succesfully w/o dogs is from a tree blind over bait.
if able to get a kill in wintertime they are good eating as the mast has fattened them up.

Art Eatman
June 11, 2009, 12:50 PM
Harve, if any are coming into NM from Texas, I'd guess around the Guadalupes. They're in the Texas Panhandle, so maybe along the eastern edge of NM. Dunno.

You could call the folks at the Elite gun store in Raton...

As far as Colorado's "no guides" deal, I have to guess that they want maximum hunting efforts to be made. The money angle is what's contributed to the size of the problem down here in Texas. I can see some nominal "damage deposit" fee, but high prices mean more hogs to do more damage to the land.

I used to hunt on a place up above Fort Davis, Texas. Few hogs. However, there were places around where it looked like a drunk on a backhoe had gone to digging large rocks. Twenty-foot circle, with basketball-sized rocks dug up.

Harve Curry
June 11, 2009, 09:03 PM
Thanks Art. I didn't get drawn for elk or deer. Actually most folks I know that put in didn't get drawn. So I will check into hunting hogs this coming fall/winter.

~z
June 11, 2009, 10:46 PM
Harve a buddy of mine did his masters on feral hog dispersion. The expand their range by following riperian areas. Follow a river or stream out of Texas and you will find them. Good luck and kill one for me. I am well on my way to a 100 pig year.
~z

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 12, 2009, 05:50 PM
100 pig year.

What the heck do you DO with all those - what % are buzzard meat?

~z
June 12, 2009, 06:00 PM
Food. We make several hundred lbs of sausage a year and some hams etc. I give a lot away to land owners, coworkers, friends, and family. Also we dont buy much meat. The wife likes chicken every so often and she buys me a big beef steak for my birthday. Other than that all our meat is off the fat of the land. Buzzards gotta seek their excitement elsewhere.
~z

gunnie
June 14, 2009, 09:49 AM
bigbore442001 and alsaqr,

last year i did a tour in the sand box for the army. [save the applause for the GI's, sillyvillian worker for DoD] as luck would have it, the piggy population seems to have targeted the hay meadow in my absence.

have been brush hogging the place this weekend, and last. my little bitty old holland tractor is not really up to traversing the tank traps. i haven't seen tractors with suspension for sale, if you know of some pls PM me. only thirty more acres to go....

as my wife was understandably jervous and nerky about going out by herself when they come out [at night], i wouldda GLADLY let RESPONSIBLE hunters in to correct the problem. the kid who cuts the hay wanted to cap some of them. even his larger 'chines will rattle your teeth out in the ruts. problem is i've been out looking for pigs with him ONCE.

read between the lines, there.

please tell me how to determine one's firearms maturity when gazing upon the perspective candidates. not really looking to get my house cross ventilated, my animals shot, or dump vast amounts of american inflationary notes in tort lawyer fees.

gunnie

Art Eatman
June 14, 2009, 02:33 PM
gunnie, probably the best way to judge somebody about hunting is the "excitability" factor. Is the guy interested in learning about safe directions to shoot? Interested in learning the lay of the land, and likely areas to walk through or for sitting and watching? If he sorta takes this sort of thing as the proper way to learn about a new area, fine. If, however, he's full of the, "Oh, wow!", it's possible he might be a problem...

alsaqr
June 14, 2009, 03:12 PM
please tell me how to determine one's firearms maturity when gazing upon the perspective candidates. not really looking to get my house cross ventilated, my animals shot, or dump vast amounts of american inflationary notes in tort lawyer fees.


Best way I know of is to ask for references. Also look at the guys appearance; if he looks like a slob he most likely is a slob. Have the hunter sign a hold harmless agreement. If you decide to let a guy hunt on your place make it very clear that he is not to bring family and/or friends on that place with your express consent.

You do not want some of the guys who hunt hogs on your place. On a place that my wife and I own, my tower stand was hit by a bullet while I was in it. Two local kids were hog hunting with their SKS guns and decided they needed some target practice so they shot at the legs of my stand. I have permission to hunt several farms in an area that is totally overrun by hogs. Every farmer in that area has a few cows killed every year by hog hunters.

RevolvingGarbage
June 19, 2009, 03:32 AM
Ive seen big feral pigs out in the Hal Scott nature preserve down the 528 here in Orlando FL. They are big, they are aggressive, and they make huge mud holes which are a PITA when you are biking and have to get around them.

So basically the problem is too much uncooked bacon? Good problem to have.

KenWP
June 19, 2009, 10:17 AM
That'd be 2 times as many as "the amount of pigs you had" - 2 parents, 4 offspring.

I can't believe a doctor wrote this. Pigs are not like humans. they don't get married so you can have 1 boar and a hundred sows. So 4 times what you started out with is correct.

Ditchtiger
June 19, 2009, 10:28 AM
They are here in Oregon also. A small game license is all you need to have.
No bag limit, any gun, no magazine restriction, open season 24 hours a day.

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