We need more Black gun owners in the NRA


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MartyG
May 18, 2009, 12:38 AM
My son just got back from the NRA convention in Phoenix. I asked him how many of the 6000 people at the banquet were black? He said, "two speakers, plus about 20 in the audience."
As I think about this, let us not forget the RKBA is a CIVIL right! Where is the NAACP or the ACLU on this?
First my theory, then my suggestion. There were no gun control laws until after the slaves were freed after the Civil War. Early gun control laws were designed to keep the freed slaves from owning firearms. Of course, over time, this approach was considered flawed, so instead, the laws became restrictive for all. ESPECIALLY in the large cities, like Chicago, LA, NYC, or just about any area with a large inner-city population.
While the Democratic Party leans more towards gun control, they assume that since Black people vote Democratic that they somehow concur with that position. That's not why Blacks vote Democratic, they vote that way for social reasons, for benefit programs, or simply because they are told to, by their Aldermen, their preachers, or their contemporaries.
As a result, Black America has gone through various phases of gun laws, all prohibiting them from owning guns. They simply don't know what they are missing! Sure there are rural blacks, and those raised outside the city. But the numbers aren't great. Blacks still have some angst regarding 200 years of slavery, but they haven't realized they've been denied the 2A for 300 years!
I'll bet if they thought about this, the law-abiding, God-fearing members of the minority communities would demand their gun rights. Then perhaps, the gun-toting villians in their communities wouldn't be so prolific.
This board demands suggestions; here's mine. Talk to a black guy or gal at work about gun rights. Ask them where they sit on the issue. Remind them that as a good person, they have a right, one they've never been fully granted.
We're just now making some headway with women. I think we should open our sights, and include Black America into our way of thinking. Doing so would provide a large mandate to every politician that gun control is not going to be opposed only by the rural white guys, but of ALL of law-abiding America.

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General Geoff
May 18, 2009, 01:05 AM
I thought this was about needing more owners of ARs and other plastic/tacticool firearms... :D

tasco 74
May 18, 2009, 01:11 AM
but the man is right.... black gun owners and any black americans who wish to keep rights intact should join the N R A..............

JohnKSa
May 18, 2009, 01:28 AM
In the last few years I've heard more racist BS in gun shops than anywhere else. It's no wonder that they tend to steer clear of us.

I'm NOT saying all gun owners are racist, nor even that most are. Just making an observation on what I've seen & heard in gun shops.

I spoke with a black coworker some years ago about getting into shooting and he looked at me like I was an idiot and then explained slowly and using small words why it obviously wasn't smart for a young black man who was trying to build a professional career to do something like that. Not being in his shoes, I couldn't argue with him since my situation is very different.

MartyG
May 18, 2009, 01:39 AM
JohnKSa, your comments about what you've heard and seen are what I'm talking about. There is a "good ole boy" mentality, and blacks have some very understandable apprehensions. But it seems to me they can, with our support, overcome this last obstacle to their American freedom. If they just realized how they've been oppressed in this regard, maybe they would get involved. Maybe their whole community would be less crime-ridden.
2RCO, that was a great link; I've saved it as a favorite. Thanks.

mordechaianiliewicz
May 18, 2009, 01:56 AM
Well... I'm black and white. But, I was raised in a very white place, by very white people. Those rural white males who'd be mad at gun control.... they're my friends.

That being said, I understand the issue. In Missouri, we used to have to get a handgun permit. It originated as a Jim Crow law, and when it was taken away as a requirement, most, if not all the black members of our state legislature voted to keep it on the books.

Problem is this, and I won't sugarcoat it. Black people were slaves, prohibited from legally owning guns, then in "freedom" really until the 1960s, they were second class citizens either prohibited from gun ownership, or discouraged from it. Since then, a large number of the black population has lived with some form of government assistance, and if they didn't, a family member did. Basically, black people have come to love their chains now, to a large degree. And they don't want to throw them off.

Guns (in that largely rural white man construct) symbolize freedom, individuality, liberty, and an ethos of superiority of yourself over the government.

To many black people guns symbolize crime, violence, gangs, and drugs. If you try to explain how much of the nation's white population has seen them, they see guns as a symbol of white oppression, and tyranny. And white superiority.

They want nothing to do with that heritage. And now that there is no frontier, and no enemy to fight, it's hard to have blacks want to join the existing gun culture, or form their own.

It's a worthy cause, and I've thought much about how to get blacks to join our numbers but it's tough. You have to have more black people who don't depend on the government. You have to have less old racist white guys, and you have to have less politicians, pastors, etc. blaming the ills of the black community on guns instead of internal problems so they can stay popular.

'Cause, as it stands, black gun owners are gonna be black rednecks (they are out there, moreso than you'd think), and black kids who grew up in the suburbs and don't have much of a connection to other black people.

mgregg85
May 18, 2009, 02:08 AM
If you are trying to recruit some you could always mention that the late Charlton Heston marched for civil rights and accompanied Martin Luther King Jr in a few of his speeches.

MartyG
May 18, 2009, 02:10 AM
If you are trying to recruit some you could always mention that the late Charlton Heston marched for civil rights and accompanied Martin Luther King Jr in a few of his speeches.

Great point! I once knew that, but had forgotten it. Thanks.

kyo
May 18, 2009, 02:30 AM
4 million NRA members 70 million gun owners. Its not just blacks that need to join. everyone else does too. I convinced my dad to get his carry permit, and I have talked to friends about gun ownership. The best way is to be comfortable talking about it. Invite friends to go shooting, and just keep talking about it in a fun way. I talked to a friend who happens to be black online tonight. I brought up shooting, and the guy is in his mid 20's and has never shot a gun before :eek:
I was like 12-15 when I shot my first time? Idk, I can understand about the black thing though. I am jewish and I feel that all jews should be armed, among the rest of the people. I know that my house would not have been targeted as much or maybe even at all if people knew the family was armed. The worst memory I have is a bomb in the mailbox. How horrid is that when you are a kid? :mad:

bullseye308
May 18, 2009, 03:36 AM
I don't get out much and I don't have many friends(both by choice). Both of my black friends have been successfully brought over to our side in the last year. One of them was easy, he just needed to be told he wanted to do it and then showed how. The other guy kicked and screamed the whole time till he pulled the trigger on a 357 for the first time. You couldn't get a stick and knock the grin off his face.

Both are now legal gun owners and interested in learning how to reload to be able to shoot more often. Out of the 8 people that I have anything to do with, only one is still resisting the pull, and she works 2 jobs and just had a baby. I'll get her eventually though.

Focus not only on the black community, but all non-white groups. So long as they are legal US citizens, we need them, and they need to exercise their rights. Just think, you may convert someone and we get another vote, but what if they at some point use that firearm to save a life because they had it and knew how to use it? How cool is that. We all win twice.

cavman
May 18, 2009, 10:03 AM
Mrreynolds is a member here, and a strong advocate of the NRA and 2nd Amendment. Here is his site. I don't see anything that specifically that deals with increasing the numbers of a particular race or group per se with the NRA, but maybe IM him and invite him to this discussion to see his input on this subject.

http://smallarmz.info/

RDak
May 18, 2009, 10:22 AM
I grew up in Detroit and worked in Detroit for 32 years before I retired.

Believe me, MANY African Americans own firearms in Detroit.

I would say 99.9999999 percent of the African Americans I've known over the years own firearms.

Many times they would look at me like "Duh, well yes I own a firearm, don't you??!!".

So, I don't know why people think many African Americans don't own firearms. :confused:

They don't join the NRA because they view it as an extension of the KKK in my experience. I've tried many times to convince them otherwise to no avail. We just have to keep trying.

Edit: Of course Detroit ain't DC or Chicago, but I'd bet many residents of cities like that still own firearms. They are just owned "under the table" IMHO.

Oh, and like another member stated, there are sure ALOT of white gun owners who don't belong to the NRA or other similar pro-gun organizations.

KBintheSLC
May 18, 2009, 03:11 PM
I have never understood why African-Americans are not more pro-gun. That goes for any minority... just because you own a gun does not make you a bad person, or one who promotes violence.

Unless you really enjoy having the crack dealers run your neighborhood.



...

Jim K
May 18, 2009, 03:59 PM
One secret the Democrats try to keep is that blacks are a lot more conservative than the "liberal" Democrats want them to be. Right now there is a lot of trouble brewing in D.C. over a council action just to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states (not to allow performance in D.C.) and black ministers are raising cain.

Unfortunately, many blacks associate guns, not with freedom and self defense, but with the KKK and inner city gangs. The white liberal establishment, which fondly believes it controls blacks, continues to promote that viewpoint and racist whites certainly help them. Approached the right way, I think that could turn around.

Jim

david_the_greek
May 18, 2009, 05:07 PM
up here in Detroit I always wondered why there were never (in my short lived life) inner city programs to educate youth and the community about firearms/get people involved in shooting sports. I understand that in any suburban/urban (heck even rural) environment there are hurdles and roadblocks, but it seems like a great way to teach kids how to not accidentally shoot one another. There is a small gun shop not far from me, in a pretty rough part of the city that is owned by a VERY pro 2A, anti establishment owner. I definitely like him a lot more after reading an article in which he emphasized the importance of minorities and the weak owning firearms, since I feel very much the same way.

2000Yards
May 18, 2009, 05:49 PM
Many blacks view the NRA as being closely aligned with the Klu Klux Klan because the NRA's lobbying body is focused around a single issue (guns) and therefore supports politicians and groups that are supportive of RKBA and/or hunting, sport shooting, etc. Many politicians that the NRA supports/supported, while strong gun advocates, are also rampamtly, overty and viciously racist. They make no pretense or try to hide under white sheets. This is why it is unlikely that many blacks will support the NRA, especially blacks from the east or south. Out west the association is not as strong, but it's still there. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

Most people are not single issue voters, though some are. Ardent RKBA advocates may be - I know a die hard Republican who almost always votes Democrat because her single voting issue is abortion. I would not expect blacks to support an organization that has supported and probably will continue to support people who are openly racist in their expressed views or policies (regardless of how many marches Wayne LaPierre (or Charlton Heston, as indicated by a subsequent poster) went on with MLK).

MartyG
May 18, 2009, 06:00 PM
I would not expect Black people to stop voting Democrat. But they could be more vocal when say, in the city of Chicago, the issue of gun ownership or CC comes up. It would get the attention of the cameras, and show up on TV! BTW, it wasn't LaPierre who marched with MLK, it was Charlton Heston.

chemist308
May 19, 2009, 12:18 AM
This is too true. In all the time I've been hunting, I've only ever crossed paths with one black hunter. That's disturbing once you realize that when you run the numbers they're not much of a minority.

My question is, how do you talk to someone who grew up in the projects and watched family members fall to an idiot with a gun as a child?

kyo
May 19, 2009, 01:26 AM
I talked to someone who is scared of guns because they had bad experiences with people around them that had guns. Questions make them think. What if you had kids and you needed to protect them? You don't need a gun? Or to learn how to shoot?
Get past the stereotypes and ask the real questions, what were you taught as a child about guns? What were your families views on guns?
Why am I saying this? Because different cultures treat things in different ways. In my house when I grew up, I knew nothing about them and say one maybe once until I was a teenager and shot one for the first time with friends and a cop in the woods. The cop was chaperoning off duty.
I know black females that pack heat. They aren't from the bad side of town. I know white moms that pack heat. They grew up in nice towns. I pack heat, I grew up in a mix of towns.
My point is that if you want more folks to become comfortable with guns, invite them shooting, talk about it in the open at dinners, hang outs, over drinks, whatever. Get the idea into their head. you aren't brainwashing them. Just asking them to see a different aspect. When my dad would come over and ask why I always had the gun out of the safe at home, I asked him if the gun would protect me in the safe. He asked why I wanted to carry everywhere, I told him because bad guys don't tell me when they plan to do criminal things. He told me to not shoot 45's and then learned he liked it better then 9's and 40's.
You have to ask questions and let them decide for themselves. You can start a group for gun enthusiasts. Call it a "practical shooting league" of some sort. Doesn't have to be black oriented, and I would recommend that it isn't. The reason is because if a bunch of white guys start a group its racist because its for "white" guys. If its a "black" group I feel it would be the same. Start a group, find some friends who enjoy this stuff. Teach people safety rules. Lead them because they want to be lead.

bearmgc
May 19, 2009, 01:29 AM
Those issues are for them to reconcile themselves. With the internet and many other resourses available these days, people are either self directed learners or they aren't. I never gave much thought to the color of a person's skin and whether they exercise their 2nd amendment rights. But like anything else in life, a person's attitude about anything can come from seeking the truth and searching for answers, or simply being lazy and believing in perception. Just because you think it, doesn't make it true, but there's alot of lazy, perception based adults in this world.
I believe in giving people opportunities to talk and ask questions about guns, shooting, hunting and the like. Then the rest is up to them to learn what they need to learn about becoming a responsible firearm owner. Many people are too lazy to learn and change their old attitudes.

jbrown50
May 19, 2009, 03:53 PM
The biggest problem I see is from so called freedom loving White individuals who say they're color blind but then make ridiculous assumptions that most Black people are lazy and all they want are government handouts. This hypocricy is one reason why Blacks don't like the Republican Party.

I'm a Black American (African American or whatever you want to call me) male, pro 2A, a proud NRA member and a registered Independent born and raised in anti-gun Washington DC. I haven't benefited from any free handouts from the government or anyone else in my life. I get just as much heat from anti-gun Whites as I do from anti-gun Blacks for my views, but I've enlightened/converted many formerly anti-2A individuals, White and Black, to this side.

The reason most Blacks are anti-NRA is because the NRA is perceived as a majority Republican organization. Most Blacks hate the Republican Party because it's perceived to be the party of White racists. Making ridiculous racial comments only helps to reinforce that perception.

As far as Blacks go, the NRA isn't the problem......it's the Republican Party.

donato
May 19, 2009, 06:26 PM
jbrown,

You have been anointed in the sheep dip by your leadership for years. You also seem to have a stereotypical bias against whites and the R party. The other party has been screwing you for years and you don't even realize it - they've been using you as political fodder for a long time.

And be careful before you stereotype me as a bad, southern, NRA, R party member.

I come from two worlds and have gained a rather unique insight as to the differences of those two places.

ACORN
May 19, 2009, 06:47 PM
Funny part is that the Democratic party was the party of segregation. The current conscience of the Senate, Robert Byrd (D)was a recruiter for the KKK. I've read that Martin Luther King was a Republican.
Have another glass of Kool-Aid.

ACORN
May 19, 2009, 06:57 PM
An enlightening short read on black Republicans in the not so recent past.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16500

jbrown50
May 19, 2009, 07:01 PM
jbrown,

You have been anointed in the sheep dip by your leadership for years. You also seem to have a stereotypical bias against whites and the R party. The other party has been screwing you for years and you don't even realize it - they've been using you as political fodder for a long time.

And be careful before you stereotype me as a bad, southern, NRA, R party member.

I come from two worlds and have gained a rather unique insight as to the differences of those two places.

No....I'm not against all White Republicans, just against the ones like you who hide your hatred behind the Republican Party, the South and the NRA. You're no better than the Jesse Jacksons or Michael Moores or any of the other extremists in the "other party". You just think you are. In fact, they point to people like you in order to justify their existence.

Nanook
May 19, 2009, 07:02 PM
Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. Emancipation Proclamation ring any bells?

I realize it was a tactic, but it was a beginning of the end of that idiotic institution.

I'm not sure when the whole Democrats are the black people's friends started, but it ain't necessarily so.

Robert Byrd, ancient member of Congress, is a Democrat, and an ex-Klansman. Imagine that, somebody's dogma ran into karma. LOL

We need more people to vote pro-gun, whatever their pigmentation or religion. Period.

Oops, somebody beat me to the Byrd thing while I was typing. Oh well, the truth is what it is.

butwhat
May 19, 2009, 10:36 PM
Billy Williams And Earnie Banks were a couple of negro hunters. I don't think they were calling themselves black yet when they used to come down pheasant hunting while playing for the Cubs. Actually I don't remember the subject coming up at all. They were just a couple of guys that liked to hunt and shoot.
kyo Just curious do you belong to jpfo?

kyo
May 20, 2009, 02:03 AM
you guys believe what you want to believe. NRA is republican, but its not cause democrats are in the NRA. NRA is racist, but its not cause black, white, jew, asian, hispanic, and whatever else are part of the NRA.
The south is racist, but I lived here as a jew for 20 years and have heard the dumb stuff while I was in public school, not out in the real world. In fact, the worst I heard is im goin to hell cause I don't believe in jesus. That isn't racist, that isn't anything. its a freaking opinion.
If your opinion is that all republicans think black folks want handouts, then you are in fact re-enforcing that thought. It is wrong. If you actually believe in the issues of one party but refuse to be a part of it because of what you were taught while being brought up then that is your problem.
Im not a republican or democrat. I have mixed views on the whole thing. But I don't make assumptions. if you are going to say one party is racist you better have proof.
What is the difference between a black guy calling a white guy racist and a white guy calling a black guy racist? nothing. racism is racism. You want it to end? Stop trying to be so separate from the rest of the country. include all, listen to all and respect all. We all have too big of ego's to really be able to respect.

slabuda
May 20, 2009, 03:26 AM
Billy Williams And Earnie Banks were a couple of negro hunters. I don't think they were calling themselves black yet when they used to come down pheasant hunting while playing for the Cubs. Actually I don't remember the subject coming up at all. They were just a couple of guys that liked to hunt and shoot.

Hmm Williams and Banks were hunters? Even more of a reason to admire and respect them....Mr Cub what a class act. Maybe that should have been "Lets shoot two" :)

evan price
May 20, 2009, 05:23 AM
Why do we need more black gun owners in the NRA?

How about more gun owners in the NRA- period?

Why limit yourself to blacks. Maybe we should look for deaf Jewish Lesbian Black woman cancer survivors who are in wheelchairs.

Then we get more minorities covered with one! Plus they get the cool parking spaces so when you carpool with them it's like, hey, no more long walks to the car!

John E.
May 20, 2009, 09:09 AM
I'm not sure when the whole Democrats are the black people's friends started, but it ain't necessarily so.

It started in the early 1960's and solidified in the 1970's.

Some historical perspective:

Civil Rights Act of 1964 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964)

The bill was introduced by President John F. Kennedy in his civil rights speech of June 12, 1963,[1] in which he asked for legislation "giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public—hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments," as well as "greater protection for the right to vote."

Southern Strategy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Strategy)

Although the phrase "Southern strategy" is often attributed to Richard Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips, he did not originate it, but merely popularized it. In an interview included in a 1970 New York Times article, he touched on its essence:

From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.

donato
May 20, 2009, 09:41 AM
Quote:
I'm not sure when the whole Democrats are the black people's friends started, but it ain't necessarily so.
It started in the early 1960's and solidified in the 1970's.

Some historical perspective:

Civil Rights Act of 1964

Quote:
The bill was introduced by President John F. Kennedy in his civil rights speech of June 12, 1963,[1] in which he asked for legislation "giving all Americans the right to be served in facilities which are open to the public—hotels, restaurants, theaters, retail stores, and similar establishments," as well as "greater protection for the right to vote."
Southern Strategy

Quote:
Although the phrase "Southern strategy" is often attributed to Richard Nixon strategist Kevin Phillips, he did not originate it, but merely popularized it. In an interview included in a 1970 New York Times article, he touched on its essence:

Quote:
From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don't need any more than that... but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That's where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.

But, the likes of the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons and the Rev. Wrights have take it to a whole new level. Oh, and I forgot the Bill Clintons and James Carvilles who have probably done as much in modern times to cause discord between the races as anyone. All for political gain.

(And I'm NOT a Black hater)

bearmgc
May 20, 2009, 03:34 PM
My comments regarding lazy perception-based people was just that, PEOPLE. I did not state that black people were lazy, an inference that Jbrown50 made. I was stating that many people in general are lazy and not self directed learners. I would suggest that jbrown read for content and not be so quick to jump on words that were not said, but what he misread. My comments are only my opinion. At least read them for what they are.

jbrown50
May 20, 2009, 03:57 PM
But, the likes of the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons and the Rev. Wrights have take it to a whole new level. Oh, and I forgot the Bill Clintons and James Carvilles who have probably done as much in modern times to cause discord between the races as anyone. All for political gain.

(And I'm NOT a Black hater)

Donato,

I go out and talk to other Blacks, in an attempt to get them over to 'our' side, the pro-2A side. Whenever I bring up the subject of joining a pro-gun organization like the NRA, GOA, VCDL, etc., the responses I get are "oh no, that's a Republican organization. Republicans are racist." or they simply say "I can't join them". Whenever White Republicans make racially inflammatory comments, no matter what the intent is, they (potential Black converts) point to it and say: "see...what did I tell you". It makes my efforts that much more difficult.

The Republican Party isn't racist and neither is the NRA but it's the perception and it's fueled by the fiery tongues of both sides AND there're various alterior motives, not just political power.

My point is that it's not particularly the fault of the NRA.

Conservative Blacks and conservative Whites have much more in common than we realize, but we need to first sit down and have a meaningful dialogue regarding race. Denial and sticking our heads in the sand won't solve anything but continue to allow stereotypes and lies to perpetuate.

The enemies goal is to keep us from having that get together.

donato
May 20, 2009, 05:29 PM
jbrown50,

Glad you came back. Well, obviously we know that all R or D party people and all NRA people and all white people and all black people are not racist- and some are.

A big problem that I see is the stereotyping that occurs in both white and black, and not always against each other. North and South do each other pretty well also. That is something (stereotype views of each other) that needs to be whipped. What disturbs me greatly is when I see our politicians and other key people pitting us against each other (using these and any other techniques) for their own selfish benefit and agendas.

I want to see black people consider themselves part of America and participate in the dream - embrace the system and benefit from it as most white people do and feel. America will be so better off and so will blacks. And, maybe more will be inclined to join organizations like the NRA and similar groups.

Now, there is something that Id like to see done away with and that is the term African-American. I am white and caucasian and you should be black or negro. No one calls me European-American and I don't want to be. These terms to me are excluding terms. If I were called European-American, I'd fell like I was something less than 100% within the system. But to me, that is what the coiners of the term African-American had in mind. If people can be made to feel that they are less than full participants in something, then they can be more easily be persuaded toward another's politics or agenda. I do realize there is much more than just that which has to be worked on.

What say you.

By the way, I'm not afraid to openly and frankly (nor too sensitive) to discuss issues, even if I have to eat some crow too - at least once in a while. :)

Tinpig
May 20, 2009, 06:01 PM
On this topic, here's a very interesting website:

Black Man With A Gun

http://blackmanwithagun.com/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140019513&sec_id=140000845

It makes the argument that historically, much of the gun-control effort in America has been aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of blacks.

Certainly true of the Mulford Act in California, signed by Governor Ronald Reagan in 1967, which forbade the carrying of guns in public. This was specifically aimed at the fear of Black Panthers, but of course impacted all law-abiding citizens, black and white.

Tinpig

jbrown50
May 20, 2009, 06:05 PM
Donato,

I wholeheartedly agree.


By the way, I'm celebrating the passage of the credit card reform bill WITH the National Parks carry amendment still attached and headed to the President's desk.

SPW1
May 20, 2009, 06:26 PM
the Mulford Act in California, signed by Governor Ronald Reagan in 1967, which forbade the carrying of guns in public.

One of the many things conveniently overlooked by those who speak as if Reagan should be the model for all conservatives.

donato
May 20, 2009, 06:36 PM
Was that concealed, open or both?

Deanimator
May 20, 2009, 06:52 PM
There's a major disconnect between Black popular opinion regarding government and police and the right to self-defense.

Black people in places like Chicago rightfully complain about corrupt and violent police and corrupt city government, but at the same time countenance a monopoly on the means of armed force by those same corrupt, violent police. It's pure "party line". Local Black political leaders have a laundry list of positions. All too many people accept them without question. I blame the pathetic public schools, but that's another discussion.

At the same time ILLEGAL ownership of firearms is rampant, even among otherwise non-criminal citizens. People cheerfully violate the laws which they claim to support, then complain when those laws are used against them. Don't ask me to explain it. I just observe it.

Certainly, there is racism among White gun owners, but I see every bit as much racism on the part of White anti-gunners. In fact, I see it expressed far more openly. They often claim that being "liberals", they CAN'T be racists, no matter how many racial slurs they hurl and how much condescension they show to Black people. The paternalism and disdain which White anti-gunners show toward Black people is straight out of a '30s "Tarzan" movie.

It's a matter of unrelenting education and showing people that they're being lied to. At Christmas dinner, my relatives were genuinely astonished to hear that police have NO legal duty to protect individuals and no legal liability when they fail to. And some of these people were well acquainted with the murder of my godsister who was stabbed to death by her boyfriend. Neither the Chicago PD nor the most repressive gun controls in the nation "protected" her in any way. They were dumbfounded to hear that thousands of Ohioans have Concealed Handgun Licenses and that there AREN'T gunfights on every street corner. I told them that we don't have the home invasions that they do. They're too dangerous for the criminal. Unlike Chicago, most Ohio Black communities don't look like human zoos, with high iron fences and bars on all the doors and windows.

Deanimator
May 20, 2009, 06:55 PM
It makes the argument that historically, much of the gun-control effort in America has been aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of blacks.
...and Italians, and Jews, and American Indians, etc., etc., etc.

Gun control is never about guns, always about control, and usually control of disfavored minorities.

bearmgc
May 21, 2009, 10:11 AM
Deanimator, yes, spot on. I have been a member of JPFO for years, and it is surprising that so many Jews are anti gun, considering the horrible atrocities of WW2. That said, the effects of persecution often result in minority/disfavored groups creating and supporting their own cultures and communities. In that respect, a change in attitude needs to come from within.

DammitBoy
May 21, 2009, 10:30 AM
NRA is republican, but its not cause democrats are in the NRA. NRA is racist, but its not cause black, white, jew, asian, hispanic, and whatever else are part of the NRA.


What the heck? Here's a person who has no idea of the history of the NRA and the civil rights movement... :rolleyes:

chuckusaret
May 21, 2009, 12:22 PM
Civil rights organization fights elitists and racists
By John Bender
web posted July 21, 2008

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0708/0708racistgunlaws.htm


San Francisco doesn’t bar everyone from keeping a gun at home. They only bar the poorest of the poor, those living in the projects the city calls public housing from exercising their Constitutional rights. The people they bar from keeping these self defense tools in their homes are not only economically disadvantaged, they are disproportionately minorities. The San Francisco law is not just a violation of these people’s Second Amendment rights. It also violates several federal civil rights laws because of its disproportional impact on minorities.

This is BS. I'll show you thousands of white development/apartment complexs that disallow guns.

The area of Florida that I live in the majority of blacks do have guns and use them nightly at the corner gas stations, grocery stores, drive by shootings and car jackings not to mention the home invasions.

chuckusaret
May 21, 2009, 12:39 PM
I think its time the Black Police Chiefs, Black Mayors, Black Ms America, Black Teachers Unions recruit more whites into their organizations. If we are going to welcome them they must also open up their doors to us. It can not be oneway. I hope I have not offended anyone but whites are not allowed to have anything for just white people.

Deanimator
May 21, 2009, 12:41 PM
The area of Florida that I live in the majority of blacks do have guns and use them nightly at the corner gas stations, grocery stores, drive by shootings and car jackings not to mention the home invasions.
Is that a fact?

So, how MANY Black people are in your area of Florida?

Can you cite ANY evidence that 51% of them criminally misuse firearms?

I'm not sure which you should join first, VPC or the National Alliance.

chuckusaret
May 21, 2009, 01:04 PM
17% of the 1,351,236 people in county are African-American and the town with the highest crime rates is Riviera Beach that has a population of 29,500 and African Americans committ 85-90% of the all crime in the town. Check it boy, its all on the web. Its about as bad here with the hoods as it was in Lima, Ohio in the 50's.

Deanimator
May 21, 2009, 02:36 PM
17% of the 1,351,236 people in county are African-American and the town with the highest crime rates is Riviera Beach that has a population of 29,500 and African Americans committ 85-90% of the all crime in the town. Check it boy, its all on the web. Its about as bad here with the hoods as it was in Lima, Ohio in the 50's.
You obviously left out the part where you show that 51% of Black people in your area of Florida commit criminal acts with firearms. Purely an oversight, I'm sure.

Still waiting.

As I said, I"m not sure which you should join first, VPC or the National Alliance. You display the profound disdain for facts required for membership in either.

2000Yards
May 21, 2009, 03:48 PM
So this thread is now degenerating into a race-bashing diatribe instead of what the OP requested - how do we involve more blacks with the NRA?

How about we get back on track, or at least try to address the question of how to get more blacks involved with the RKBA, shooting and 2nd amendment issues.

MartyG
May 21, 2009, 04:02 PM
So this thread is now degenerating into a race-bashing diatribe instead of what the OP requested - how do we involve more blacks with the NRA?

How about we get back on track, or at least try to address the question of how to get more blacks involved with the RKBA, shooting and 2nd amendment issues.
As the OP, I think the way this board has veered just highlights the many complexities of black gun ownership, and for that matter, racial matters at large. None of us dispute this. There will always be opinions on both extremes of any bell curve.
But like 2000Yards said, let's get back to my first point. If you are selling anything, it makes sense to first approach your most logical natural market. That's what the NRA has been doing. But if you want to REALLY expand your operation, after the initial plateau, then you have to look to additional markets. Complimentary, non-competing, and not in lieu of the primary market. I just can't help but wonder how a well placed ad in Ebony, or a TV spot on BET featuring both Steele and LaPierre together would be received. Sure there would be the raspberries, but it may be a case of any publicity is good publicity. Your thoughts?

John E.
May 21, 2009, 04:03 PM
How about we get back on track, or at least try to address the question of how to get more blacks involved with the RKBA, shooting and 2nd amendment issues.

I'd say the most effective way would be for other blacks to introduce them to the sport.

mordechaianiliewicz
May 21, 2009, 04:09 PM
Oh, I don't know.... quit talking about the issues which revolve around internal issues of the black community, and begin talking about what would encourage black people to want to join the NRA....

We all know black people commit more crimes per capita than Whites or Asians. Big whoopee. It's a serious issue, and needs to be addressed but not in the activism part of this forum. (Oh, that sounded way to moderator-esque)

Deanimator
May 21, 2009, 04:09 PM
I'd say the most effective way would be for other blacks to introduce them to the sport.
Been there, done that. Ignorance (as in a lack of knowledge) is the primary problem, compounded by intentional disinformation. I try to provide factual information where I can.

SuperNaut
May 21, 2009, 04:33 PM
If the membership of AA's in the NRA reflects the percentage of AA's in the general population (~12%) then this isn't really an issue IMHO.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find any concrete numbers on the racial make-up of the NRA membership.

Deanimator
May 21, 2009, 04:55 PM
Unfortunately I can't seem to find any concrete numbers on the racial make-up of the NRA membership.
I've been a member of the NRA off and on since the mid-70s. I don't ever recall being asked my race, religion or ethnicity.

chuckusaret
May 21, 2009, 05:03 PM
You obviously left out the part where you show that 51% of Black people in your area of Florida commit criminal acts with firearms. Purely an oversight, I'm sure.
No, but you can look for yourself. http://search.aol.com/aol/search?query=riviera+beach+shootings&s_it=keyword_rollover&c.userid=49f7b619-00221-0428d-e2960c40

And I agree with the others and will get back on point. We have three blacks out of 22 that shoot in my group, all Army retirees and all are presently in LE. Based on the % of blacks in our population that is about the right mix. I would venture to say the black membership in the NRA is in the 12 to 15% range.

kyo
May 21, 2009, 08:05 PM
What the heck? Here's a person who has no idea of the history of the NRA and the civil rights movement...
Dammitboy, you took what I said out of context. I was stating that people want to believe things that are a load of crap. Those were examples. you took it out of context. I will note my sarcasm over the internet next time.

SquirrelNuts
May 21, 2009, 09:40 PM
I personally don't care what the color of the skin is. I don't care if they young, old, female, etc. We need more NRA members, PERIOD.
That was almost going to be my exact post until I saw you had already posted it.

Mags
May 21, 2009, 10:31 PM
Why are we segregating a minority group. Black Americans have the freedom to do what they want if they don't want to be gun owners big deal many white and other Americans choose to not do so as well. And I tell you what if Black Americans are still pissed about slavery I tell you what find me someone who actually suffered through goverment sanctioned slavery in America and I wil give you a million dollars.

Hollowdweller
May 21, 2009, 11:19 PM
I'm not black so this is only speculation.

First I see more black people all the time getting into shooting and various forms of outdoor recreation previously where none could be found, so that means things are changing.

However if you think it's not been so long ago that the concern in certain places was keeping blacks from having guns. So there's that.

Then it's not been so long since they WERE property and didn't OWN any property. So the landlessness I think played a role as well.

Finally every black person I have known that hunted did so on posted private land. They were afraid of rednecks shooting them. In fact I had a buddy if we were just out driving around in the country and he saw a confederate flag he'd want me to get the hell out of there, because he had actually been chased down by a bunch of rednecks and beaten.

So there's the thing that in a lot of urban areas, middle class well educated where people don't have as many racist tendencies most people don't hunt or shoot and the areas where you CAN are limited.

Then in the areas where open space abounds and shooting and hunting are more widely practiced the population is less educated and have more racist tendencies there wouild be more the element of fear keeping a black person from fully joining in.

barnetmill
May 21, 2009, 11:34 PM
This is a very long thread and I have not read all of the posts:

But for what it is worth I grew up in black neighborhood (1950's, I am white) and every black household had a gun(s). These were people that were mainly from Mississippi. They may have been black but were also southerners also. A popular revolver caliber was 32-20. The questions is that very few blacks are involved in organized shooting sports or the NRA. Things are slowly changing. I commonly see blacks at gun shows when 30 years ago they were rare. I suspect still that very few belong to the NRA and that needs to increase. My gun club has made succesful overtures to black religious organizations about training programs under one of our presidents (He was a conservative demoncrat). Not sure what our present leadership is doing.

Black people in rural areas, small towns, and blue collar occupations do own guns just like other americans. Those living on welfare in big cities are in a different world. Same for some of the urban professionals.

BullpupBen
May 21, 2009, 11:52 PM
I'd just like to say +1 to everything Kyo said and most things Jbrown50 said (though he did take a few people out of context)

As to the association of the NRA with racism, then what about the JPFO? Their primary message clearly appeals to any type of oppressed minority.

barnetmill
May 22, 2009, 12:17 AM
bullpupben: As to the association of the NRA with racism, then what about the JPFO? Their primary message clearly appeals to any type of oppressed minority.
Preception is everything and the truth not only will not set you free, it often does not count for much.

Once you say Jewish; many minority people associate that with Israel and the zionist movement which means good things for jews, but not necessarily for black people. I am not saying that the JPFO is a zionist organization; I really do not know. But, there has always been some latent antisemitism in the black (Jesse Jackson Heime speech is a good example) and also the white communities of America. So do not expect that any organization with the word Jewish in front of it is going to be automatically attractive to black people just because it is jewish.

I am sorry if I have offended anybody, but I simply speaking what I know to be true.

chuckusaret
May 22, 2009, 12:54 AM
I suspect still that very few belong to the NRA and that needs to increase.

Why do you believe we need more black members, do you know how many are presently members?? No you don't. I doubt that the NRA knows how many blacks are members and really doesn't care as long as they send in their dues. When you say black do you include all the black races? I suspect there is at least 12% of the about 4 million members that are black.

I think the NRA needs more French-Americans, Asian-Americans, Cuban-Americans. Why do I say that? because I haven't met many that are members but I am not an expert on NRA memberships.

Why don't we leave it up to the NRA to recruit their new members. I don't believe they give a damn about anyones color, just the annual $35 bucks.

Black Toe Knives
May 22, 2009, 12:56 AM
The trend seems to be there are more black gun owners. I go to lot of gun show. I see Brown Gun owners with their hunting guns. They are converted to black gun owner as the sell their Brown gun for Black guns. It is Known fact is The Black Gun Owner buy more ammo than the brown gun owners. There are more Black gun owner at Gun shows now. There is question now where do the Green Gun owners belong. The true facts are Gun owners are for most part Black Gun owners.
Now I dont want to upset The bi racial folks either. I myself support Nascar and NHRA. I think People have bigotry tendencies if they only support one race.

So more Black Gun owners now belong to NRA than ever before

What were we talking about.

Hammerhead6814
May 22, 2009, 01:01 AM
... the NRA is lacking Black Gun owners?

Hey, don't look at us in KC, we've got our memberships. It's those St. Louis slackers, they keep putting it off :D .

crazed_ss
May 22, 2009, 03:27 AM
Im black and own guns.. used to be a NRA member.. I let my membership expire recently because I didnt like the nastiness I saw from gun owners during the past election.

devildog66
May 22, 2009, 07:14 AM
The famous suffragist and civil rights activist Ida B Wells said it best, "...a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home.". Can't have freedom without the direct means to preserve it.

Regarding the NRA, I am a life member, and, in my opinion, our organization has not exactly gone out of its way to even attempt to sway racial minorities. I even called their one-time radio show and tried to argue the point to the host but he was more interested in laying into "inner city thugs" as a root cause of gun deaths (yes, in too many cases) instead of attempting to energize all people with the freedom enumerated in the 2nd Amendment.

Deanimator
May 22, 2009, 09:16 AM
I even called their one-time radio show and tried to argue the point to the host but he was more interested in laying into "inner city thugs" as a root cause of gun deaths (yes, in too many cases) instead of attempting to energize all people with the freedom enumerated in the 2nd Amendment.
An interesting bit of irony there.

Who are the primary non-criminal victims of those "inner city thugs"?
Inner city NON-thugs.

Whom do non-inner city thugs like Sarah Brady and Dick Daley move heaven and earth to disarm? Inner city NON-thugs. The thugs have all of the guns they need. On occasion, cops like Joseph Miedzianowski supply them with guns or ammunition.

Anti-gunners view Black inner-city communities as "game preserves". If the "lions" take a certain number of "antelope", that's "natural". As long as all of the "animals" stay in the park, they're not too worried. On the other hand, if the antelope start growing fangs and claws and started disemboweling the lions, they're horrified and see that as "unnatural".

Police almost never protect individuals ANYWHERE. They especially don't do it in inner-city Black communities. Yet, Black people are told they don't need guns... because guys like Joe Miedzianowski and Jerry Finnegan will "protect" them.

It's a con as big as anything Bernie Madoff ever pulled... except Madoff never killed anybody.

thesolidus
May 22, 2009, 10:34 AM
Talking with a buddy of mine at work about gun ownership and he had a totally different spin.
As a young black man he owned a gun. An illegal, stolen one. He wasn't in a gang, avoided them but was still a target and felt the need to carry. Now in his 40's he won't own because he knows too many people shot by gangs or leo's. He said that if he's pulled over and Leo see's a gun under the seat he'd be shot. I tried to tell him that with training and responsible ownership the under the seat comment would be moot, and having a handgun in a ready safe at home or a CCW is totally different than being a young thug. (His term not mine.)
Illustrates the different perceptions. I can talk about guns and mean a legal, over and under, Fudd (as in Elmer) gun, while he's thinking only of an illegal gun under the seat.
We talked a bit about it. He supports 2nd, but is sold that he'd be arrested or shot if he owned. And he associates guns so much with gang behavior that responsible behavior seems foreign.
Kind of the inverse of the "if you only have a hammer the whole world looks like a nail" argument. Looking at a screw, thumbtack, pushpin, spike, needle... he can't stop thinking hammer, so dosn't own one.
Good Christian man so he's got that armor, me i'm happy i have a bigger toolbox.

runrabbitrun
May 22, 2009, 10:49 AM
Why not just say:
We need more gun owners in the NRA?

Labels more labels. Sad really.
We see it everywhere. :rolleyes:

donato, you wrote on page one:
(and I'm assuming that you are not caucasian),

No, I'm a white boy, but lived and played with the brothers and sisters
(and other 'group's) for many years.
I was fortunate enough to meet, work and interact daily with Arabs, Yemenis, Latinos, Egyptians, Pakistanis' (and many many more)...

You'd be surprised how many 'black people'
there are from these different 'groups'.
But to me they are just 'people',
who happen to have a different skin pigment than me.

So that's why I say:
Why not just say:
We need more gun owners in the NRA?

chuckusaret
May 22, 2009, 12:05 PM
Regarding the NRA, I am a life member, and, in my opinion, our organization has not exactly gone out of its way to even attempt to sway racial minorities.
Why should they. They advertise in every form of the media. Why should a selected few be pampered. I don't see the blacks trying to recruit whites into their organizations.

If you don't agree with the NRA's policy/management style why are you still a member? It is a well known fact that they, the NRA, will continue to operate as their management desires, not as you are I want. Remember there are at least 4 million members that must think they are doing an outstanding job. I am one of those 4 million who is quite satisfied with the NRA as it is today.

butwhat
May 22, 2009, 12:12 PM
I've had my differances with the NRA over the years & quit recruiting do to their constant use of imported promotional items. I was once sent 50 imported hats to give away in an area where a Garmet workers factory had just closed do to being relocated.
That's a way to bring in more members. Had those hats been Made in the USA as they should have been It would have been a huge plus in attracting new members. People look at that and say you want me to support you? Where is your support going? To some country that doesn't even allow gun ownership?

Water-Man
May 22, 2009, 12:15 PM
How about less crime committed by blacks rather than more guns for blacks?!

Deanimator
May 22, 2009, 12:33 PM
Why not just say:
We need more gun owners in the NRA?
Because Blacks are SPECIFICALLY targeted for disarmament. Blacks are SPECIFICALLY pressured (and sometimes intimidated) into not having the means of self-defense.

A specific attack requires a specific response.

Deanimator
May 22, 2009, 12:37 PM
How about less crime committed by blacks rather than more guns for blacks?!
And forcing Black people to be helpless, disarmed victims of violent crime will accomplish that HOW?

You don't seem to mind Black people being disarmed victims, but at the same time you want Black people to somehow magically cause there to be "less crime committed by Blacks". I detect an agenda on your part that runs contrary to the 2nd Amendment, and probably the 13th as well.

chuckusaret
May 22, 2009, 12:39 PM
You obviously left out the part where you show that 51% of Black people in your area of Florida commit criminal acts with firearms. Purely an oversight, I'm sure.

The shootings in the city of Riviera Beach has been committed 100% of the time this year by blacks.
Crime stats:
Murder: 10
Forcible Rape: 28
Robbery: 233
Aggravated Assault: 365
Burglary: 1,049
Larceny or Theft: 1,726
Car Theft: 575
Arson: 15
Population of Riviera is 29,500

Deanimator
May 22, 2009, 12:55 PM
The shootings in the city of Riviera Beach has been committed 100% of the time this year by blacks.
Changing the subject isn't going to help you.

You said that the majority of Blacks in your area committed gun crimes. In order for that to be true, you would need to show:

1. How many Black people are in your area.
2. That more than 50% of them committed gun crimes.

You have not.
You cannot.

All of the short bus National Alliance propaganda in the world won't change that.

Deanimator
May 22, 2009, 12:58 PM
I've had my differances with the NRA over the years & quit recruiting do to their constant use of imported promotional items. I was once sent 50 imported hats to give away in an area where a Garmet workers factory had just closed do to being relocated.
That's a way to bring in more members. Had those hats been Made in the USA as they should have been It would have been a huge plus in attracting new members. People look at that and say you want me to support you? Where is your support going? To some country that doesn't even allow gun ownership?
There's a lot of that going around.

Do you remember when the Clinton Administration devalued the black Ranger Beret by making it universal in the Army? Do you remember where they came from? The PRC.

chuckusaret
May 22, 2009, 03:10 PM
1. How many Black people are in your area.
2. That more than 50% of them committed gun crimes.
You are twisting my statement. I said the majority of gun crimes were committed by blacks. In the town I mentioned 100% of gun crimes have been committed by blacks this year. That means no other race has committed a gun crime and was caught in the city of 29,500 this year to date. Nuff said.

Master Blaster
May 22, 2009, 03:57 PM
NRA founded by two union officers after the war....

KKK founded by southern democrats after the war....




NRA=KKK is about the stupidest thing I have heard, nothing could be further from the truth.

Water-Man
May 22, 2009, 04:14 PM
And forcing Black people to be helpless, disarmed victims of violent crime will accomplish that HOW?

You don't seem to mind Black people being disarmed victims, but at the same time you want Black people to somehow magically cause there to be "less crime committed by Blacks". I detect an agenda on your part that runs contrary to the 2nd Amendment, and probably the 13th as well.
__________________
Nobody's forcing blacks to be or do anything. Quite the contrary! They are victims of their own people and that's mainly because they usually do NOTHING to help themselves. DON'T SNITCH! Ever hear that statement? Nothing MAGICAL about that, is there?!

And you detect nothing in my post. You're not bright enough to do so.

Deanimator
May 22, 2009, 04:15 PM
I said the majority of gun crimes were committed by blacks.
NO, you didn't.

You lose.

Run along, you're late for your VPC, and or National Alliance meeting.

Deanimator
May 22, 2009, 04:18 PM
Nobody's forcing blacks to be or do anything.
Really? So nobody in Chicago is forcing Black people to neither own nor carry handguns?

Anybody who thinks that the Chicago Police Department is going to "protect" a Black person who informs on a crack dealer is obviously a major consumer of that dealer's "product". On the other hand, the Chicago PD will go to great lengths to make sure that that wouldbe upstanding citizen is a helpless target for that crack dealer. Kind of ironic, huh?

chuckusaret
May 22, 2009, 04:48 PM
Really? So nobody in Chicago is forcing Black people to neither own nor carry handguns?

I believe you are just an angry old man. I'm out of here.

hso
May 22, 2009, 06:35 PM
This is not a discussion forum. Read the posting requirements.

This is for presenting plans to support the 2A and RKBA.

To that end getting more minorities into shooting helps us in 2 ways.

First, we increase the numbers of shooters who may increase the number of gunowners which will increase the number of NICS checks and may increase the number of permit holders. ALL of which will increase the statistics showing that gunownership is not a lunatic fringe minority.

Second, we help dismantle the anti's stereotype of gunowners as redneck thugs.

If it's more obvious that 2A supporters come from all segments of society and all ethnic groups it makes it more difficult for the antis to sell the lie.

Is it self-serving of the firearms community to court groups that help destroy the propaganda put out by antis? Sure it is.

Is there anything wrong with that?

Not if we realize that we're in a culture struggle as well as a political one and our goal is to secure the 2A right of all free people.

If you enjoyed reading about "We need more Black gun owners in the NRA" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!