Bedding the SKS


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maskedman504
May 18, 2009, 09:51 PM
I figured while my trigger group was of getting tuned by Kivaari, I would try to bed the action of my SKS to the stock. I read up on the internet and saw that JB Weld was a sufficient bedding material. After studying the process a little, I figured I would give it a go; one way or the other, everything is pretty guarranteed to come out tighter!


So I cleaned the receiver will rubbing alcohol and coated its entirety with car wax.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/IMG_0608.jpg

Then I cleaned the cavity in the stock where the action sits. I applied JB Weld toe the red circled areas. I didn't grab any pics of the JB Weld in the stock because I got a litttle anxious to get it all back together at that point. Sorry for my lack of photo editing skills also. Edit: the red circles arent apprearing- I put JB Weld at the read, the middle and the front of where the action sits.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/IMG_0609.jpg

So, this epoxy cures in 24 hrs, I will probably remove the action after about 4 hours and then let the stock cure. Guess I will update you guys tomorrow, for better or worse! :D

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Speedo66
May 18, 2009, 10:21 PM
Bedding the SKS?

Buy it a few drinks and whisper in it's ear. :rolleyes:

Seriously, it looks like a plan. Just hope your wax works, 'cause that's pretty strong stuff.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 12:49 AM
Intial result are promising. The action was definitely tight in the stock. After a little coercion (very little), the two part seperated. I am now going to let the JB Weld cure over night; I will clean it up with a razor in the morning. So far, all seems well, but, we'll see, I have never done this before! :D

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/beddedcopy.jpg

PT1911
May 19, 2009, 12:59 AM
definitely intersting.... one cant help but wonder why... but hey... why not?

Shear_stress
May 19, 2009, 01:01 AM
Sounds like a cool project. I am convinced these rifles will shoot better than they are given credit for, if given half a chance.

Limeyfellow
May 19, 2009, 01:11 AM
Why? Because there is a significant amount of wobble room between the stock and receiver at those points and that helps eliminate lots of it. Now throw on a Tech-sight, clean up the trigger and a few other bits and pieces and you can see what the SKS is capable off when assembled well.

greyling22
May 19, 2009, 01:19 AM
don't forget to feed it right. cheap com-block ammo shoot like cheap co-block ammo.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 01:51 AM
Why? Because there is a significant amount of wobble room between the stock and receiver at those points and that helps eliminate lots of it. Now throw on a Tech-sight, clean up the trigger and a few other bits and pieces and you can see what the SKS is capable off when assembled well.

Exaclty; As I said before, my trigger group is being worked on by a guy that has done 1,000 SKS triggers (http://www.kivaari.com/), and, after bedding the stock, my next addition will be an Advance-Tech peep sight. My father bought me this SKS and it is my first rifle, I am going to keep it forever.

Kinda funny, having to make a case for making your rifle more accurate.

Storm
May 19, 2009, 09:50 AM
Well done. I hope that the JB Weld sticks to the wood. Cosmoline soaked wood isn't the best surface for adhesion. But, if you roughed up the contact areas with a bit of sandpaper and/or cleaned them up you will have minimized any adhesion issues. JB Weld was an interesting choice over other epoxies. Another good choice might have been marine epoxy as it has a good deal of chemical resistance, but now that I think of it JB Weld does also, and probably much more so. I work with a lot of epoxies, so the choice is of interest to me and JB Weld seems perfect.

I think you are well on the road to a more accurate SKS. I checked out the stock/action fit on my Norinco and there is zero play. If my stock for my Romy arrives today I will start the fitting tonight, so I will be considering your fix, if necessary. Thanks for sharing the process. I think that it's the very best way that you could have gone with it. The auto wax was an inspired choice, probably much better than vaseline or silicone sealant.

3pairs12
May 19, 2009, 10:00 AM
I am interested in how it looks this morning after curing over night.

Olympus
May 19, 2009, 10:41 AM
Yeah I'll be interested in seeing how it cures as well. I don't know that I would have removed the action to let it cure, but that's just me I guess. I see the point of bedding as wanting the epoxy to cure in the shape of the action. There might be some settling after you remove the action. Either way though, it definitely won't hurt anything the way you did it. It can only help. Let us know if your groups noticeably tightened.

3pairs12
May 19, 2009, 10:48 AM
Yeah I was kind of thinking the same thing olympus. He did leave the action in for several hours though, and I don't think that JB weld expands probably will work just the way he had planned. My dad and I used bondo and it worked pretty well. We did leave the action in for full cure time.

Storm
May 19, 2009, 10:54 AM
If he is using standard JB Weld four hours should probably have been enough to partially cure it so that it retained it's shape without running or expanding. I'll go set some and see how it is at 2 o'clock :)

BUGUDY
May 19, 2009, 10:58 AM
I believe the trigger work and good ammo will help more than bedding, I bedded one also to get a better stock/reciever fit. I used a bedding gel. I fit great but accuracy was the same. Still worth doing if just to learn how to bed a rifle.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 12:15 PM
Truth be told, one of my motivations for bedding my SKS is to improve accuracy; however, I am quickly becoming gun-crazy and I also wanted to do it for the learning process and because I just didn't like the sloppy, wobbly fit. Accuracy will still be hindered by a non-floated barrel, and I don't know if I am going crazy enough for that. :D

The action and stock are now tight together, giving the rifle a much more solid feel all together. I really hated the wobble it had before. If this is the only benefit, then I consider my hour of work well spent. Once I get the trigger group back, I will try some groups with some Remington factory ammo I have and throw up a comparison.

My last grouping at 100 yards. This was my first time at 100 yards, off a rest, iron sights. I know alot of this grouping is my inexperience as a shooter. My next attempt will be off sandbags with factory ammo.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/IMG_0622.jpg

Here are three upclose photos of the epoxy. After removing the action there was no running or settling of the epoxy. In the past, I have found that JB Weld is dry to the touch in 4 hours and completely cured in 24. I am going to clean up some are with sand paper and a razor blade, but, all in all, I am pretty please with the result.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/IMG_0617.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/IMG_0619.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/IMG_0621.jpg

EDIT: I just finished cleaning and re-oiling the receiver and there is zero play when it is in the stock now. I guess as long as the trigger and magazine go back in everything will be schweet! :uhoh: :p

Smokey Joe
May 19, 2009, 01:08 PM
Maskedman 504--Don't let the naysayers grind you down! Bedding an SKS as a learning project is well worth the trouble just for the experience alone! My first bedding job was also an SKS, and it taught me a lot.

Went on to bed a Yugo M-48 in a Boyd's stock, and felt much more comfortable doing that because I'd done the SKS first.

BTW, I agree that the trigger job is a good move, according to everybody that has had one done. PLEASE give us a further report when you have all the parts back!

ETA--I agree with Greyling 22 about the quality of ammo you use affecting accuracy. As the computer guys say, "Garbage in, garbage out."

Thanks for posting!

gvnwst
May 19, 2009, 01:12 PM
Gret project, i can't wait to see what it does to the groups.

WNTFW
May 19, 2009, 01:29 PM
Maskedman504,
Are you in the 504 area code? I think sometimes even if the only benefit is the rifleman believes the rifle is better then you have gained something. That is not to say you wasted your time, the bedding is probably going to help. I used the term rifleman (not shooter) because I feel that is someone who is willing to understand and work at what makes a rifle work well, including the human factor.

I did a Rem 700 for my first try and I admire anyone willing to try bedding a rifle. Between the expense and work that would be involved in glueing you gun together permanently it is a bit scary to take the plunge.

Later,
WNTFW

benzy2
May 19, 2009, 02:12 PM
I personally think bedding should be done thick and full length unless you are skim bedding a stock with a full length metal block. Even then it may be wise to take a little material off.

This is a good first effort and it looks to be what you were aiming for. Still I like to bed them full length. Part of the benefit of bedding is that a thick layer of bedding resists any warping a wood stock may go through. This keeps point of impact more consistent over time. A thick layer of bedding also helps shot to shot. A skim coat may tighten things up but a thick full length bedding really solidifies a stock, especially when pillar bedded as well making for a more consistent shot to shot. The spot bedding certainly tightens the fit up, especially of a loose stock, but I would personally next look to trim some wood out and full length bed it with at least 1/8" thick of bedding compound.

Still nice first effort. It takes a lot of guts to put glue in between your action and stock while not wanting them to be glued together. That alone is a big step and one that took me a while to do.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 02:21 PM
Are you in the 504 area code?

Not, this is just an internet moniker I have been using for umpteen years.

Still nice first effort. It takes a lot of guts to put glue in between your action and stock while not wanting them to be glued together. That alone is a big step and one that took me a while to do.

Yeah, now that I have jumped off the bridge, the water isn't so bad. Next trip, we'll head for the deep end! ;)

NC-Mike
May 19, 2009, 02:29 PM
Is it just me or does that bedding not look right?

I looks as if there was no contact between the bedding and the epoxy.

They look like photos of the epoxy Before the action was put in the stock...

Anyways, why not just use a bedding compound instead of JB Weld?

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 03:04 PM
Is it just me or does that bedding not look right?

I looks as if there was no contact between the bedding and the epoxy.

I thought the epoxy was the bedding? There was definite contact between the action and the epoxy. I just didn't want to post huge pictures, but I will dig up one.

Anyways, why not just use a bedding compound instead of JB Weld?

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu75.htm

I read that article and said, "Hey, I have car wax and I have JB Weld, I think I can do this." I might have been less apt to do it if I had to go shopping for bedding compound. The article is also why I picked three spots, it seemed to me that the author didn't do the entire length of the action. That and I think the boxoftruth.com author has a pretty good reputation.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 03:10 PM
Here is a big picture. The action didn't contact at ALL of the epoxy, but id did contact part of every spot. I feel the critics coming; I am not a gunsmith I am a hobbyist/tinkerer!! :neener:


The grey/white flat areas are contact points. The not-so-shiny grey areas are uncontacted epoxy.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/IMG_0616.jpg

3pairs12
May 19, 2009, 03:53 PM
Hey you already did what you set out to do...learn something and get rid of wobble. It may not be the prettyest of jobs but when the rifle is put together who will know. Good work and full range report will be due upon trigger install and better ammo. :)

Reid73
May 19, 2009, 04:04 PM
Kinda funny, having to make a case for making your rifle more accurate.Presumably, the point PT1911 was making is that the SKS is a rather crudely-manufactured rifle, the main virtue of which is rugged dependability.

You are free to try to improve its accuracy, and perhaps you will have the last laugh. ;)

NC-Mike
May 19, 2009, 04:33 PM
Here is a big picture. The action didn't contact at ALL of the epoxy, but id did contact part of every spot. I feel the critics coming; I am not a gunsmith I am a hobbyist/tinkerer!!


The grey/white flat areas are contact points. The not-so-shiny grey areas are uncontacted epoxy.



No, I'm not out to critique you or tell you you did something wrong it just looks as if you didn't get enough epoxy in there. I'm not saying you did it wrong, It just appears as if there was not a lot of bedding contact.

Did you wrap the action in the stock with a bungee cord or somehow otherwise secure it in the stock?

And yes, the Box O Truth guys got it going-on. :)



Here's what bedding usually looks like.

http://accurateshooter.net/RichardsCustom/beddingfinal.jpg

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 04:59 PM
NC-Mike that photograph perfectly illustrates the point you were making. I thought about putting epoxy down the full length of the "rails" the action sits on in the stock. I may have been a bit cautious with the amount of epoxy used. Heck, I was just glad I was able to seperate the two to begin with. :D

I guess I can chalk this one up to experience.

WNTFW
May 19, 2009, 05:04 PM
Making decisions on what to cut away (inlet & relieve) and where to put bedding material is part of doing the job and part of the stress involved.

I know I would do some things differently after doing 1.

I will offer some contructive criticism. I think you could cut back on the paste wax. It does look like more material was needed at the very rear. Hindsight is 20/20.

Part of the problem I faced was not knowing which advice to follow. Some guys swear by surgical tubing & other say it is not the way to go.

One of the hardest things was waiting for the epoxy to set & not disturbing the gun & action.

I'm going to do a second rifle soon & it will probably be just as stressful because it is not a Rem 700.

NC-Mike
May 19, 2009, 06:51 PM
Hindsight is 20/20.

True that, but only those bold enough to go forth through the flames of doubt and fear gain the benefit of it. :)

NC-Mike
May 19, 2009, 07:04 PM
I think you could cut back on the paste wax.

That's a great way to apply it, now all it requires is a quick wipe down before you set it in the stock. As long as the action has a nice even, thin film of wax on it, the epoxy won't stick. A good even film will be just fine.

Again, bravo for delving into rifle bedding. Experience is invaluable and now you have some.

And BTW, I think it was an excellent idea to bed that SKS. It could only help.

Smokey Joe
May 19, 2009, 07:07 PM
It's used like sort of a giant rubber band, wrapped around the epoxied stock and the release-compound-coated action, to hold them firmly together. This eliminates the need for attaching the trigger mechanism and/or trigger guard and/or magazine plate, to the bottom of the stock, which would require that you stick those trigger guard screws up through the epoxied area and screw the action down normally.

NOT using the screws eliminates the possibility of getting some epoxy in the screws, thus making the job permanent! :D For me, it eases my mind considerably when doing the setting of the bbl/action into the epoxy.

After setting the action into the epoxy "just right," you simply wrap the surgical tubing around the action with some tension (we're just holding the assembly together, here, we're not holding charging lions at bay), making sure to over-wrap the start of the tubing, and tucking the tail end of the tubing under one of the wraps. Voila! Everything stays just where you put it while the epoxy sets.

ETA--BTW, epoxy does not stick to surgical rubber, so if some oozes out, you can still get the rubber off with no hassle, then you have to cut and sand away the oozed material. I'd wait 'til it's set up to work on it, rather than trying to wipe it away as it oozes out.

As for the OP, he'd sent his trigger group away to be worked on--In the SKS, it's the trigger group that holds the action/bbl and the stock together, so he was forced to use some other means of attachment.

A final thought--Maskedman 504--if you don't like those voids in the bedding right at the butt end of the action, you can simply apply another coat of release compound to that area of the action, mix up a little more JB Weld and dab it into the voids, slap action and stock together once again, let sit for another 24, and bingo, no more voids. If they don't bother you (and with the SKS's anemic recoil, you certainly don't need extra strength in that area,) then just reassemble and be done with it--nobody else need know.

If you get too much bedding compound in there and it sets up, no probbie--just hog it out good with a Dremel tool or such, and re-apply. A nuisance to be sure, but a comfort in knowing that you're not stuck (pun intended) with a bad job should things turn out that way.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 07:15 PM
A final thought--Maskedman 504--if you don't like those voids in the bedding right at the butt end of the action, you can simply apply another coat of release compound to that area of the action, mix up a little more JB Weld and dab it into the voids, slap action and stock together once again, let sit for another 24, and bingo, no more voids. If they don't bother you (and with the SKS's anemic recoil, you certainly don't need extra strength in that area,) then just reassemble and be done with it--nobody else need know.


I had though about that and may consider it. The dremel is a good suggestion also. Sand paper would take forever.

Well, I have a planned trip to the range on Sunday; hopefully my trigger gets back here by Sat. so I can put her back together and post some new groupings. Thanks for all the great advice guys!

Speedo66
May 19, 2009, 07:42 PM
When I first got my Norinco SKS there was enough slop that you could feel the action move in the stock if you played with it.

Luckily, I had a used beer can handy :rolleyes: and cut a few strips of aluminum out and shimmed the stock.

Made a big difference in accuracy.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 08:23 PM
When I first got my Norinco SKS there was enough slop that you could feel the action move in the stock if you played with it.

Luckily, I had a used beer can handy and cut a few strips of aluminum out and shimmed the stock.

Made a big difference in accuracy.

That was my motivation; I could actually wiggle the action from side to side and from front to back, albeit a small amount. My AK's mag wobble drive me nuts- this was intolerable! :fire:

NC-Mike
May 19, 2009, 08:31 PM
I had that happen with a CMP Rack Grade Garand. The action moved about 3/8 of an inch, back and forth.

I got a new stock and then I sold it. It was a problem child from day one.

maskedman504
May 19, 2009, 08:43 PM
I had that happen with a CMP Rack Grade Garand. The action moved about 3/8 of an inch, back and forth.

I got a new stock and then I sold it. It was a problem child from day one.

This is not supposed to do this!! :banghead::cuss:

maskedman504
May 23, 2009, 03:06 PM
Well guys, the trigger arrived back today; man, what a difference!! And the rifle all fit back together. :D Going to the range tomorrow to give it a run through. I also compared the trigger in my Yugo with my Dad's SKS- woah, I repeat, the difference is huge. The Ruskie has atleast 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch of play, where as my trigger from Kivaari breaks dead clean. So, tomorrow will be fun; giving the new and improved Yugo a chance to show me what I can do and I am shooting my Win .30-30 for the first time also, haha!! :D:p :)

I love my Yugo, but my Dad's Ruskie is sure pretty.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc99/maskedman504/SKS-sbscopy.jpg

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