[ArchAngelCD]

I know there are MANY good semi-auto shotguns out there but right now I can't spend the money on them. I'm looking for a fairly good shotgun under $600. I'm looking for a 12ga and there's no need for a 3.5" chamber, 3" will be fine. Any advice on which to stay away from will be appreciated too.

[6x6pinz]

Don't dismiss the Spartan SPR line of shotguns so easily. Bakail has been making shotguns for a long time. Yes they are great field guns and the finish might not be up to SG snobs liking but the reliability and function are great. Yes they will shoot the lightest 2 3/4 load along with the heaviest 3 1/2 (even though you don't require it). It only took Remington a year to put their name on the shotgun. I have an early one when Remington first started having them built under the Spartan gunworks name. You can not find Remington on it anywhere. Now Remington's name is placed on every one of the Spartan shotguns after they were shown to be very dependable.

[earlthegoat2]

Of the ones listed I like the SX2 the best. It has a good history of being a solid design. I would go with Browning Silver if it were up to me to me to get a new one. But I would probably get a used 20 gauge though and forgo anything new.

[Virginian]

Get the one that fits you best, unless you just want it to look good on the rack in the pickup back window.
Most name brand semi autos made today will work as designed if the operator has any sense and ability at all. Being able to hit anything with said gun depends on you, and the gun at least fitting semi decent.
The Remingtons fit me very well, so that's how I voted, and you can get a very good used one for under $500 pretty easily just beacause there are so many of them out there.
A lot of people will tell you the off brands are great deals and work fine. Maybe. But, I can tell you if you get one of those and it doesn't work fine, you may be a lonely soul. There are a lot of people around, including gunsmiths, who know a lot about Remingtons, Brownings, Berettas, Winchesters, and Mossbergs.

[Taurus 617 CCW]

What will it be used for, hunting, self defense, target shooting, a little of everything? If its mainly for target shooting and home defense you may want to take a look at the saiga 12 shotguns. They are magazine fed and can hold up to 12 rounds if desired. Pretty decent price on them.

[rbernie]

I chose other - my first choice would be a Browning Auto5, probably (depending upon how you intend to use it) followed by a Remington 1100. :)

[TAB]

I see no reason for the 3"


so I'd get a 1100 in 2 3/4"

barring that, I might get a 11 87, but like I said, I see no reason for the 3"

[shaggy430]

I have a vintage 16 gauge Remington clone of an Auto5 from the 40's that still functions flawlessly. It's a looker too. Having said that I would go for a good used Browning or a Remington 11-87.

[RetiredLawman]

In my lifetime, nothing has come clsoe to the Franchi 48 20 gauge for upland hunting.

Everyone deserves two shotguns. A heavy gun for still shooting, waterfowl, etc. Such a suggestion would be Remington's 11-87.

A day afield with a 8 lb gun is torture. A day shooting clays with a lightweight is torture. I haven't found any middle ground. Any insight?

[MCgunner]

The Winchester....

[Bennyb747]

I vote Saiga 12 too. As far as Semi auto shotguns go it's probably going to be the most reliable you can get hands down. And if you like you can get a long barreled version of it and put a wood stock on it. Magazines can accommodate 2 3/4" and 3" shells and vary in capacity from 2 rnd to 30 rnds.

[MCgunner]

Saiga in the field?:barf: No thanks. I don't like crossbolt safeties on shotguns being a lefty. I can't imagine having to work that thing on a Saiga. :rolleyes: The ergos just ain't there. Most autos are quite reliable for field use, even the 1100 if you properly maintain it. I like the idea of the Mossberg, but I've never used one. I know the Winchester pretty well, friend with an SX2 I've hunted with. Mine is an old 1400, not the same gun, but a good gun never-the-less. If I had my druthers, it'd have a tang safety on it, though.

To each his own, I guess.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The poll is flawed, I'm afraid, and is therefore unanswerable. You cannot get an SX2 for $600 new.

[jim in Anchorage]

The poll is flawed, I'm afraid, and is therefore unanswerable. You cannot get an SX2 for $600 new.
Welcome back after your "retirement" doc. You lasted all of what,a week?

[ArchAngelCD]

I appreciate the input so far, thank you.

The poll is flawed, I'm afraid, and is therefore unanswerable. You cannot get an SX2 for $600 new.
Dr. Tad,
I can find a SX2 for $589 NIB at a local dealer or I wouldn't have included it in my Poll.

Welcome back after your "retirement" doc. You lasted all of what,a week?
jim in A,
Your post has nothing to do with the thread, that's what them make PM's for.

[chas08]

1st choice; Remington 1100, they can be had in 3 inch magnum models but are iffy on cycling most 2 3/4 inch loads.

2nd choice;Remington 1187, field models have 3 inch chambers and cycle most 2 3/4 inch loads.

You may ask why? On the preference of the 1100 over the 1187. I own both and still don't know. maybe because the 1100 just feels better. I purchased a steel shot barrel for it which has a three inch chamber, for waterfowling. But the gun feels better with the standard 2 3/4 inch fixed choke barrel that came on it.

[ArchAngelCD]

chas08,
Thanks for that post. In reality the reason I asked about the 11-87 over the 1100 was price alone. I might have to open the price up a bit if I want something nice. Looks really aren't a factor, reliability and function are.

[chas08]

I bought both of mine lightly used off of gunbroker.The 1187 came first two seasons ago for $500. The 1100 came along about a year ago for $350. both are wood and blue. There are some decent deals out there if you can be patient. An arthritic shoulder necessitated my moving away from my beloved 870 and BPS. Both semi-autos are very smooth shooters. Good luck in your quest. :)

[USSR]

I see no reason for the 3"

so I'd get a 1100 in 2 3/4"

+1.

Don

[rcmodel]

A used Browning A-5 would be my pick of the litter.

rc

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I can find a SX2 for $589 NIB at a local dealer or I wouldn't have included it in my Poll.

Well, I'll be. In that case, get the Winchester! Remington close 2nd. :)

Yeah, "retirement" WOULD have lasted, but for all of the dadblamed misinformation and sub-par information I see running around - I can see I have not YET passed on enough wisdom for it "to take". :p

[jim in Anchorage]

Yeah, "retirement" WOULD have lasted, but for all of the dadblamed misinformation and sub-par information I see running around - I can see I have not YET passed on enough wisdom for it "to take".
Between the two of us we will straighten them out:)

[Virginian]

If 3" hadn't been one of your qualifications, I would definitely have voted 1100. For one gun, with 3" and 2-3/4" capability, the 11-87 is fine. I have 5 1100s and like 9 barrels so I don't need an 11-87. If you get a later 11-87, or an earlier one with a Light Contour barrel, they feel okay.

[JohnBT]

I have a black synthetic 1100 and a 3.5" camo SX-2 and it's a toss-up, although the SX fits me about 1% better. The SX is perfectly reliable shooting 2.75" low brass #8s. Never tried it with 3.5" shells though.

John

[jaybr]

I voted SX2, only because I'm not sure you can find a Beretta for $600. Walmart used to sell a plain black synthethic AL390 for just under $600, if they can still be found, that would be my choice.

The SX2 is a nice gun though.

[MCgunner]

I have a black synthetic 1100 and a 3.5" camo SX-2 and it's a toss-up, although the SX fits me about 1% better. The SX is perfectly reliable shooting 2.75" low brass #8s. Never tried it with 3.5" shells though.

John

And this is why I voted Winchester. My buddy's SX2 is 100 percent reliable with anything he stuffs in it. It's an amazing shotgun. Also, it fits me like a glove. Winchester must built their shotguns to my dimensions cause every one I pick up, be it a SX2, a 1300 pump, or my 1400 auto, fits me as if it was tailor made.

[JohnBT]

Oh, and Browning sells the same gun, nearly, as the SX-2 if you run across a good deal on one.

There's nothing like a deal. My 3.5" camo SX-2 is a 2003 model that I bought barely used for $750.

And then there's the newer SX-3 if you see a deal.

John

[white buffalo]

The Beretta from Walmart, $549.00 a couple of months ago.
WB

[EdLaver]

I recently had a chance to shoot a 930 SPX, in my opinion its the best semi shotty on the market. The price is great too ($600), good luck trying to find one though. The popularity for them is going up and they are hard to find. (At least for me)

[JohnBT]

I just checked them out on the Mossberg site. Yep, it's a shotgun. :)

But dang it, they're ported.

John

[Smitty in CT]

1st: Mossberg 930 (quite possibly the best shotgun Mossberg has ever built)

2nd: Winchester SX2 (alot of the design ideas for the 930 came from the SX series)

3rd: Beretta 390/3901

Shoulder and fire as many as you can, when you find the "right one" you'll know it.

If you're ever up near CT drop me a line and come shooting with me on the weekend, you can try out the 930....I go to Bradford / Sullivan counties in PA a lot, too... if your close to those.

[BENELLIMONTE]

I am a newly converted fan of the Browning Gold Hunter 12gauge in 3". Great handling gun for just about anything that flies through the air, with or without feathers. I had seen them in CDDN for right around $ 600 NIB (20gauge). A used 12 gauge could be found for under $600.

[Maverick223]

Yeah, "retirement" WOULD have lasted, but for all of the dadblamed misinformation and sub-par information I see running around - I can see I have not YET passed on enough wisdom for it "to take".
Well, we'll just have to keep lying to keep you around then. :D Welcome back, Doc.

[distra]

Remington 1100.

[RangerHAAF]

For semi-auto action I'd go with a Saiga. I'm prejudiced in Favor of AKs so this choice would be along that same line.

[Geezer59]

Another vote for the Saiga (https://www.gilbertsguns.com/Shotguns/Saiga/Saiga+12+Gauge+19+Barrel+IZ-109) - they're very solid, plus lots of aftermarket bits are available for this popular shotgun.

[Maverick223]

Another vote for the Saiga
I agree, depending upon use. They are ultra-reliable after a bit of tuning (some, like mine, didn't have enough gas to cycle reliably...easy fix).

[JohnBT]

The trouble with the Saiga is the only barrel I see on their site that takes choke tubes is 22" long. You'll find a few shotgunners who like short barrels, but most opt for something between 26" & 32" or 34". The 24" Saiga barrel is fixed full choke - not very useful if you need an open pattern for rabbits, birds or clays.

Like the site says, useful for home protection.

"These are the best shotguns for home protection!!!
(19" threaded bbl especially!!!)
Imagine the sound that AK makes when you chamber a round in the dark!!!
Whoever entered your home with a wrong intent will know to start running!!!"

Looking at the OP's original selections, I think we're talking hunting/sporting guns here and even Saiga doesn't make many claims about being an all-around shotgun.

John

[Maverick223]

The trouble with the Saiga is the only barrel I see on their site that takes choke tubes is 22" long. You'll find a few shotgunners who like short barrels, but most opt for something between 26" & 32" or 34". The 24" Saiga barrel is fixed full choke - not very useful if you need an open pattern for rabbits, birds or clays.
I agree, not the best gun for birds, et cetera, however most are externally threaded to accept a poly-choke.

[JohnBT]

"poly-choke"

Another minus. :barf:

[Maverick223]

Another minus.
Why? I have not used one, but have heard good things about them (other than looks, and it's an AK=function>form).

[chuckles]

I love my FN SLP. Highly recomended.

[jhco]

I voted 1187 even though I don't shoot one. I love my 1100 in 20 and 12 so I assume that I would love the 1187 too

[inSight-NEO]

Given the price/quality: Mossberg 930 (SPX)

[Floppy_D]

Just a thought; have you checked out the Stoeger M2000? I beat the hell out of one for several years and it ran like a champ, no matter what load. I'd still have it, but I wanted a Wingmaster.

[hogmanahoo.com]

i just picked up a 1929 browning A5 LITE 12 GA FOR 300.00.SPENT ITS LIFE INA GUN CASE

[psyopspec]

Another voice for Saiga 12.

[Maverick223]

i just picked up a 1929 browning A5 LITE 12 GA FOR 300.00.SPENT ITS LIFE INA GUN CASE
I vote for one of these...at that price! :D

[jackdanson]

I vote Saiga 12 too. As far as Semi auto shotguns go it's probably going to be the most reliable you can get hands down.

Whis is this repeated so often? I have an s12, and I love it, but it isn't exactly reliable. I've had more ftf's and fte's in that shotgun than any other firearm I own. (and yes, I know all about the gas settings)

It has gotten substantially better as it has gotten "worn in", but it's not unstoppable by any means.

Anyway, didn't mean to turn this into a saiga-bashing thread. SX2.

[Maverick223]

Whis is this repeated so often? I have an s12, and I love it, but it isn't exactly reliable.
Because it is an AK variant and must therefore be the most reliable piece of sheet-metal ever created...I agree mine was utterly unreliable with light loads until I did some tuning, drilling, & filing, they may not all be that way but it seems that we got the bad ones. With a bit of work it can be extremely reliable.

[JohnBT]

So how does it handle? Is it quick enough for quail? What about rabbits. Does the fixed choke tolerate steel or Hevi-Shot loads for waterfowl?

Honestly, it's a rifle that shoots shotgun shells. I'm thinking it's the semi version of the Marlin bolt action shotgun - limited in its usefulness.

John

[Maverick223]

So how does it handle? Is it quick enough for quail? What about rabbits. Does the fixed choke tolerate steel or Hevi-Shot loads for waterfowl?I assume that you are asking about the S12...I have never hunted with it, so my expertise is non-existent. But I can tell you that it handles well, but is a bit on the heavy side, like its derivative the AK. I do not think that it would be ideal for quick prey due to the sights, but like I said I have no experience trying it. Mine is simply a HD/range gun nothing more, and with my choice of sights (HK drum aperture sights) I know that it would not be ideal for quick game like waterfowl. The gun is what you make it (if converted), you can select components to your needs and specifications, but like you said still the usefulness is limited. However, the "options are limited" with any firearm. :p

[rbernie]

i just picked up a 1929 browning A5 LITE 12 GA FOR 300.00.SPENT ITS LIFE INA GUN CASEYou, sir, have impeccable taste. Well done. :)

[Pun1sher]

Another vote for the Saiga here. In addition to all the good reviews, and the joy of handling it, it just plain looks cool :) The 10 round clips don't hurt either.
Oh yeah, it's pretty affordable too, since I last checked. If you want something a little cheaper, but still reliable, go with the lower end Mossberg or Remington.

[6x6pinz]

[QUOTE]So how does it handle? Is it quick enough for quail? What about rabbits. Does the fixed choke tolerate steel or Hevi-Shot loads for waterfowl?

Honestly, it's a rifle that shoots shotgun shells. I'm thinking it's the semi version of the Marlin bolt action shotgun - limited in its usefulness.

John/QUOTE]

I use my S12 for waterfowl about 30 to 40 days, which is about half the time I spend out in the field chasing waterfowl. The saiga has never let me down, more than I can say for some of my buddies other autos. I have never understood the magazine change out complaint. When birds get shot at they generally leave except the ones dropped of course. This gives plenty of time to change magazines before the next set of birds. I don't think the saiga is the best for everyone but it works very well for me, which is important to me.
As for rabbit, dove and quail I prefer one of my 410's which includes a saiga 410.
The saiga shotguns seem to swing very easy and with the heavier barrel end seem to take less effort to follow through with your shot.
If I were to use a shotgun for HD it would be my modified saiga 20, but that is not likely.

Some great choices listed in the previous post. Just shows you that you will have to get out and shoot as many as possible to make an informed decision, that is the fun part :)

[berettashotgun]

I'd never purchase the S&W or Mossberg, own an 11-87 & SX2, and although I like the Remington and Winchester products - I'd get a Beretta.

Every time and anytime I will chose a Beretta semi over the others.

A Franchi 720 seems to be a decent shotgun, but I haven't shot my 612 or 620 yet. (same workings)

Remington 11-87: I dove hunt with a 1100 sporting 28. I love that shotgun - my boy shot skeet with the 11-87 skeet model.
He shot great until he found out what panties were covering up:barf: he is making a full recovery-now that my granddaughter is approaching 2.:p
Those o-rings will let you down at the worst time. They did me. and my son.

Winchester SX2: I like this shotgun alot. Mine has never missed a turkey - got a double by accident. It just kicks like a mule, my 10ga gold is a cream puff compared to the SX2.

[JohnBT]

"I use my S12 for waterfowl about 30 to 40 days"

I'm curious what choke and non-toxic ammo combination you would recommend for hunting ducks in the U.S. Which barrel/choke are you using?

I'm really curious about how a U.S. duck hunter would plug the gun/magazine to the legal limit of 3 shots total. The smallest magazine I see on the Saiga site is a 5-shot.

John

P.S. - edited to add: I finally found a 2-shot mag on the Saiga site using the 5-shot mag link. U.S. made by SureFire Gun Mags LLC and only $42 plus shipping.

[6x6pinz]

I use the polychoke on the 22" barrel. hoke setting depends on the way the birds are acting and if they are decoying well. Nice thing about the polychoke, you can adjust it with just a simple twist. I have been using winchester xpert steel and start the season with 4 shot, as a rule of thumb. I purchased some plugs made by a guy on the saiga12 forum. I have 5 mags that are plugged all the time and use regular 5 rounders when not hunting migratory birds. There are some two round mags available from a few sources. AGP had them in the case the last time I was there. I prefer the 5 rounders plugged as they are easier to "rock and lock" with gloves on. Carry a few in a fanny pack and you can change them out even if they are not emptied, then fill them while waiting for the next flight. I have become accustomed to reloading them while they are in the fanny pack with one hand. If you take 5 mags (four in the pack and one in the SG) you have essentially 11 rounds at the ready. With a limit of 7 birds (here at least) you don't have to refill the mags very often.
Again the only problem I have with the S12's is the lack of ability to handle the 3 1/2" rounds. I find these very helpful when hunting geese. Seems the shots on geese are a little longer and take a bit more punch. Some of my hunting buddies carry pump 10ga if the geese are known to be in the area. This may vary depending on where you hunt. AZ can be hard to find duck and even harder to find geese. This year the flight did not hit here until well after the season was closed :( I only managed to bag 105 birds and 1 goose, very slow year.

[Jed Carter]

If you could find the SX2 at your price point the FN built semi is the one, but for the price point or below the Mossberg 930 will be easier to locate. My vote for PRICE...Mossberg 930

[doubleh]

I voted for the 11-87. Wouldn't be anything wrong with an 1100 either. An 11-87 in 20 ga. is my dove and quail gun and also my "sits behind the bedroom door" gun.

[JohnBT]

"the lack of ability to handle the 3 1/2" rounds"

Wouldn't bother me, I use 2.75" and 3" Hevi-Shot.

John

[JoshRushing]

CZ...................

[Colton White]

11-87 wont let u down

[berettashotgun]

Has anyone EVER put an honest 10K thru a saiga? I think my trigger finger would be shredded.
I picked up a couple of the saiga 410's a few years back and they are a hoot, but under no circumstances would I ever think about using one (12 or 20ga) for clays or dove.
Way too much work to retrain myself to reload while jumping a fence:evil:
They are cool, ugly and socially unnerving...... but I cannot seem to feel safe in them.
Most people shoot a few hundred rounds thru something and swear it handled "4-5 thousand rounds without a glitch" seen my own brother do this. When I pointed out we only went thru 2 flats - together! - he realized HE couldn't handle that kinda round count.

[Maverick223]

Has anyone EVER put an honest 10K thru a saiga?Not I...I have put a few hundred of low-brass, and a few dozen buck and slugs. Done great since tinkering with it to get it reliable (not good with light loads from factory).

[6x6pinz]

The count on my S12 is high but I don't think anywhere near 10K although I shoot it regularly and can easily go through 500 rounds in an afternoon in the desert. My S410 has more rounds than my S12 but I have owned my S410 a lot longer than my S12. I can however say that I have well over 10K in a 1980 Remington 870 police riot shotgun. I used to shoot that one 3 to 4 times a week even wore out one of my reloaders trying to keep it fed.
In the olden days 5000 rounds only meant 10 cases an easy task to use that many in less than a year.

[berettashotgun]

As high as the shotguns are - they still a a small part of the overall price after you figure in overpriced ammo.
Guns went up and ammo matched it :banghead:

[lipadj46]

Whis is this repeated so often? I have an s12, and I love it, but it isn't exactly reliable. I've had more ftf's and fte's in that shotgun than any other firearm I own. (and yes, I know all about the gas settings)

Saigas were designed to fire a heavy load with military and police applications in mind. With high brass buck or slugs or any magnum rounds you will be hard pressed to make a S12 fail. With a little work they can be made dead reliable with even the winchester bulk pack but this involves some polishing of internal parts and making sure your gas ports are free of crud.

They are russian made so the end user should expect a to do a little finishing work to get them 100% reliable. I think many people just expect them to work 100% out of the box and that is not a reality with these shotguns. Some say they are not worth the $550 or so they are getting these days but that is up to the market. Personally I think they make a fine deer and turkey gun and can be used for duck and wing shooting but are not an ideal choice for those.

[Maverick223]

I agree, mine was (and still is) 100% with buck and slug (though only about 100-150), but about 60% with Winchester Bulk Bird out of the box. I have had no FTFs since I got it, only FTEs, and those have ceased since handfitting and drilling a couple new holes.

[6x6pinz]

how old are your Saigas? Mine has always fed the lightest loads I could put through it. I of course fired a few hundred rounds of high brass field loads first, to loosen things up. I use mine for weekend clay shooting (ultra light loads) to heavy duck/goose loads with no failures of any kind. The only thing I have not been able to do with mine is bump fire it. For the record it came with three gas port holes.

Still in all a great shotgun but there are certainly better shotguns out there.

[Maverick223]

how old are your Saigas?Mine is about 6mo. old.
The only thing I have not been able to do with mine is bump fire it. For the record it came with three gas port holes.Mine came with two partially blocked holes (now has 4), and I also cannot bump-fire mine due to poor cycling when trying to bump-fire.

[6x6pinz]

I wonder if some of the issues I read about with the Saigas are the newer ones. I picked up my S410 at a gun show from a dealer who was happy to get rid of it. No one showed any interest in it as they had never heard or seen one before. As soon as the S12 became available I picked up mine then followed by the S20. My 20 being the newest of my Saigas is the most temperamental. It does not like the lighter loads in either length but shoot the heavy stuff just fine. Funny thing is it is the one that has had the most work done to it. The others are stock except the 12 has a polychoke.
Several of my friends have the S12's and I don't think they have ever fired anything but ultra light 8 shot through theirs. At first a couple of them would not completely eject the shells but now they all run perfectly.
I guess it is what we have come to expect from the russian mass produced firearms. They all work great, some require a little clean up.

[Maverick223]

I wonder if some of the issues I read about with the Saigas are the newer ones.I believe so...if you can't keep up with production...speed up, you don't need that extra hole. :rolleyes:
The others are stock except the 12 has a polychoke.Do you like the polychoke? I am considering one for my S12, but have heard good and bad. Is it the vented one, and if so is it markedly louder than stock?

[6x6pinz]

I use the vented version. I have never noticed any noise change. I have also heard the same complaints about the polychokes, not only for the saiga but in general. Having used them on a few shotguns I am assuming those who have trouble did not read the directions for installing the units. I would guess that once the polychoke arrived they played with it, adjusted it off the barrel. When the polychoke arrives read the directions and install it then you can adjust it all you want. The only problem I had with my polychoke was last year after a hard rainy duck hunting weekend. I did not clean up the shotgun right away when I got home so the next time I went out the internals had rusted. It took a bit of WD to get them freed up but all is good again. I don't think I can blame polychoke for my lack of cleaning. From that same weekend you should see what a buddie Ruger red label looks like. What a rust bucket.

[Maverick223]

I have never noticed any noise change.Thanks for the info, looks like I will be getting the vented version as well. I am not concerned with the looks because I never considered the Saiga to be a showpiece anyway...it just works.

[lipadj46]

I believe so...if you can't keep up with production...speed up, you don't need that extra hole.

The story about the 2 hole "Vodka Specials" (coined by bob ash from tromix I believe or maybe it was tony, anywho) was that they were russian military ordered barrels, and I guess the military only shoots the heavy loads so they get 2 gas vents, that got "mixed" up and installed on S12's headed for export. This story came to me via Tom Cole from Cadiz Gun Works (sole warranty provider for RAA) and he heard it from Clyde from Russian American Arms (Saiga Importer). Who knows if it's true but they will fix the 2 holers for free including shipping. And they fix them so they will shoot Federal Bulk pack shells, Winchester is not a consideration.

On the polychoke, once I get mine back from Cadiz, I am installing the non-vented polychoke as I really do not need a muzzle break especially hunting next to people.

[memphisjim]

ill go saiga12 because its what i have
plus surefire 12 round mags hold 13 but then have to be inserted with bolt open

[Maverick223]

Winchester is not a consideration.I got mine to eat up Winchester (except from the hip) but it is now a four-holer "Scotch-Special". :D