"We have met the enemy, and it is us!"

[Mad Magyar]

In this current ammo crisis, I really believe we've created a monster of our own design. Hearing that our nearest Wally World received a limited supply of centerfire pistol ammo, I found myself next in service. The clerk advised me that the fella before me just purchased $2,000 worth of ammo in various calibers. I jokingly said, "Did he leave a box for me?" His reply: "Hey Dude, it looks like every man for himself". Hell, I just wanted one box.
I don't feel that ammo mfgr's have restricted their supply, but it's this mania that somehow either the Congress, aka "Demos" will somehow curtail our future ammo needs. This hoarding is "shooting ourselves in the foot" and in its own way our right not only to bear arms, but to be proficient in the use of our firearms. IMHO.....:)
Let me say one good thing about Wal*Mart, they have kept their prices the same and haven't try to take advantage like some other stores in our area. What say you?

[Just One Shot]

No ammo at wally world here except for .22 long rifle 325 rd. bulk packs for $14.47. I'd say they jacked the prices a bit wouldn't you? :mad:

[Girodin]

You are of course right that it is the hording that is causing sky high prices and limited availability. Expecting people to be good citizens or neighbors or whatever is simply not going to happen. Study game theory. It is like a run on a Bank. If everyone would just leave their money there then it would not happen. Each individual has motivation to get their money out just in case though. When the run is on the only sure thing you can do is run faster than everyone else.

The walmarts here have restricted purchases to a certain number of boxes. Availability is still pretty low. Gunshops and some other sporting good stores seem to have more ammo but at notably higher prices.

Yes the whole scare and the subsequent jump in prices was caused by the sky is falling crowd. The shortage will in time pass but I worry that prices will never really come back down to what they were.

[mgregg85]

All my wally-world has is .25 acp and various rifle calibers(no .223 though).

The LGS had a good supply of 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP but he has been limiting how many boxes of each that you can buy.

[3pairs12]

My wally world is limiting customers to 2 boxes per caliber. Not that they actually have 2 boxes of anything.

[kanook]

heh. I thought with everybody buying so many firearms and related stuff it was just our way of trying to jump start the economy. I wasn't hoarding anything. I was just to make sure the ammo makers would stay in bussiness. (Just kidding, I reload and only buy what i need and leave the rest for the next guy) :D

[sunaj]

It is regrettable that ammo is scarce, but you can't blame someone for buying a lot, after all we all knew this was coming, the people in dire straights are really the ones that waited until the last minute, but things will probable improve this summer, good luck to all of you on this

[crebralfix]

Order online. Sorry, but you'll have to wait. It'll be filled at some point.

[dropride]

I've been to one of the local ww twice in the last week and the same boxes of .223 and .44 are the only things on the shelves

[Ed Ames]

At the end of the day this is just a customer service issue. Is it better, long term, to make all of your customers somewhat happy, or to make a few of your customers REALLY happy? On the flip side, a retailer with empty shelves has a much easier message for consumers than a retailer with full shelves and arbitrary policies against perfectly legal sales. I'm a pretty reasonable person and I refuse to do business with a number of companies because they have arbitrary policies against selling products into CA even though they are perfectly legal there. How do you think someone who now thinks they NEED 500rds of .223 will respond to a retailer that says, "no, you can only buy 100."

If I was in that trade I would get a whiteboard and update it weekly with ammo sold since 1.1.09 just for fun...but I would not limit ammo sales or complain when someone bought 1000rds at a go.

I seriously wonder about the folks who whine about ammo availability. You have as much ammo as you thought you needed...what has changed? Why are you suddenly obsessed about being able to buy more? Shoot down your supplies or if you are down to your reserve switch to a pellet gun for practice. Consider this a chance to practice your "SHTF conservation of ammo"...or don't.

[mljdeckard]

The buyer did nothing wrong at all. He put himself into a position where, if he came across a large availability of ammunition, he would buy it. Right, fair, and just. He did not create the crisis. He made sure that he would adapt to circumstances and not allow himself to be caught empty handed.

I don't have as much ammo as I WISH I did, but that's no one's fault but MY OWN. Even my wife agrees, we will never be caught this dry again.

And relax. Demand can't possibly outlast production forever.

[Dimis]

the walmarts here have put a limit on ammo sales 3 boxes per customer period if you want a box of 308 a box of 22 and a box of 357 your done... NEXT
same if you just bought three boxes of 22 i dont like the idea but at the same time its stopped alot of the horders from making the rest of us misserable

[Cliph]

Our local Walmarts restrict a single buyer to 6 boxes of anything, any size box/day. Of course people get all the over 21 realtives they can find and each gets 6 boxes!

[jad0110]

6 box limit per customer at my local wal-mart.

No ammo at wally world here except for .22 long rifle 325 rd. bulk packs for $14.47. I'd say they jacked the prices a bit wouldn't you?

The 325 round box of Federal Auto Match ammo at my WM was also 14.47 ... but it has been 14.47 for as long as I can remember. You may be thinking of the 550 round Value Pack for about the same price, which also hasn't increased much in the last 6 months.

The 325 round Auto Match is a bit higher quality than the standard Value Pack, hence the higher price.

Actually, my WM has dropped the price of 9mm from 20.77 to 19.97, and I'm starting to see a slight increase in availability. Most local gunshops have told me that they have seen demand level off, and even begin dipping slightly in some cases. So maybe the great ammo panic is leveling out, we can hope at least.

[jaybr]

I don't mind the hoarders near as much as the scalpers.

If you think you need 10k rounds of 9mm, and you can find it and afford it, more power too you.

If your buying 10k rounds of 9mm for $9 a box at Walmart, and selling it for $30 a box at the gunshow, your slime in my book.

If limiting purchase helps keep the scalpers at bay, I"m ok with it.

[Bushwacker1962]

People are buying it up to resell it on Gunbroker and other venues. I paid $60.00 for 1000 Wolf Large Pistol Primers a couple weeks ago. This was the only way I could continue shooting competitivley. So you guy's who are out there doing this quantity buying are hurting us who only buy what we need to shoot our sport. All they have to do is stop production, and it would be over. They know it to. They just continually come up with a means to get more monies from our pockets.:fire:

[Cougfan2]

Was in Fisherman's Marine Supply today and picked a box of .38 spl plinking ammo for the range this weekend. Guy behind the counter there said he saw supply picking up a bit.

Other side of the coin, was at the gun show on Sunday and saw the ammo vendors with mostly sky high prices, but I didn't see a whole lot of action at their booths either.

[chuckusaret]

The clerk advised me that the fella before me just purchased $2,000 worth of ammo in various calibers. I jokingly said, "Did he leave a box for me?" His reply: "Hey Dude, it looks like every man for himself". Hell, I just wanted one box.

I'll bet the guy was the owner of your local Mom & Pop gun store. I've seen that done here in West Palm on several trips to Walley World. They buy it for 13 bucks and sell it for $30, but not to me.

[Mad Magyar]

I'll bet the guy was the owner of your local Mom & Pop gun store. I've seen that done here in West Palm on several trips to Walley World. They buy it for 13 bucks and sell it for $30, but not to me.
Damn, if that's happening, it really is making me MAD!:cuss: I guess I'm a little naive about these things...never occurred to me....I realize it's free-enterprise, free country, your $$$ spend it anyway you want: but I hope some sensibility comes around fast.....

[Hickwithstick]

Here in my town we have 2 small private gun shops, a wally world and a sports authority. Sports athority hardly ever has anything as far as ammo goes, the guy says he just isn't getting it in his shippments. and reciently one of the other private shops went to wallmart and bought all the 22LR they had, making his shop the only place in town to have any and he jacked the price of CCI MiniMags to $30/100. Bet when ammo gets to be more pleantifull he won't be in business. And thanks to him wallmart started a 2 box per customer rationing. With 2 kids shooting marlin 22's and my wife and I both shooting walther P22's 200 rounds is hardly worth going out for. Acouple weeks ago I had to drive over 100 miles to get primers $40/1000 limited to 2 per person. but locally they are selling them for $7-8 per 100 and again limiting the sale to 200 primers. again wife has an XDm 9 19round magazine's and for mothers day I bought her a DPMS Panther AR-15.
Did I mention WILL WORK FOR PRIMERS

[Phydeaux642]

I don't mind the hoarders near as much as the scalpers.


I'm with you. The people stocking up will eventually have what they feel is enough. This reminds of the Beanie Baby and Hotwheels craze when these essentially worthless items were selling for huge sums. You can't give that crap away now.

I'm at the point where I'm glad that things are the way they are. I have saved some money over the last few months and have decided that I will not go back to pre-panic buying levels. I was spending a lot of money, but I no longer have the desire to do that.

One of the shops in my area has stopped taking special orders for ammo. They said that their backorders were sucking up everything they got in and there was nothing left for regular walk-in customers. You can tell it has hurt them. The shop is full of guns and other accessories. The only thing missing is ammo and the hords of post-election consumers.

[David E]

Ammo and bullet prices have been steadily going up for TWO YEARS, not just since the Obama got elected.

Wal-mart has had price increases, but it's been due to their own costs going up.

I remember 2 yrs ago the 100 rd pack of WWB 9mm was $10.97 Now, it's $19.97 and has held steady there for 6-8 months.

[jad0110]

Quote:
I'll bet the guy was the owner of your local Mom & Pop gun store. I've seen that done here in West Palm on several trips to Walley World. They buy it for 13 bucks and sell it for $30, but not to me.

Damn, if that's happening, it really is making me MAD! I guess I'm a little naive about these things...never occurred to me....I realize it's free-enterprise, free country, your $$$ spend it anyway you want: but I hope some sensibility comes around fast.....

Actually, there is an online ammo retailer selling 100 round boxes of Wallie World White box 9mm (usually around $20) for something like $69.95. At least they were, I think the price has come back down to about $30, but I'm not sure. I honestly don't see how they could be selling any at $70 / box.

Stupid, yes, but gouging? A lot of people would say gouging, but in a free market I don't think so. Charge too much and people just won't buy, like the $70 box of 9mm. If they do, then apparently it must have been worth it to them.

Sometime this summer or fall I'll be looking for a new-to-me car. I'll be selling my '04 Ford Crown Vic LX with about 45k miles myself. If I put a price of $30,000 on the windshield, is that gouging? Or just plain, good old fashioned stupid? I've got a feeling that the market place would respond "stupid", and I'm stuck with a car that kills my back. If I have half a brain in my head, I'll price it competitively with other like-cars - say around $9-10k. Now, if for some odd reason, demand for the big CVs goes through the roof in 6 months (unlikely, I know) and prices jump to $13k, you'd better believe I'll be asking $13k. That's not gouging, I'm just responding the way just about anyone else would. If I price and sell it for $30k, well, it must have been worth it to the buyer. Or the buyer was just dumber than a box of rocks.

Oh well, this post is probably worth exactly what you paid for it :o .

[Phydeaux642]

Ammo and bullet prices have been steadily going up for TWO YEARS, not just since the Obama got elected.

I believe that is because the cost of raw materials was going up. The cost of raw materials has come down but the price continues to go up due to the panic.

[HippieMagic]

Wal Mart here is 3 boxes per customer. They all seem to have 100rnd boxes of .40S&W. I found 3 boxes of 9mm at $11 a piece so I bought 2 and the guy with me got one. I only have 100rnds left but that works for me I have been able to find 9mm any time I look for it so it's all good.

[Rellian]

Well, the panic has shown what calibers are popular if nothing else
:rolleyes:

[Sapper771]

I too have seen this. I go to walmart frequently just to check their ammunition stock. I have done it so much that the sporting goods associate knows me by name. He keeps telling me that they have placed the orders and they are waiting for them to come in . They get trucks in just about every night in TN. I have been in line waiting to buy a couple of boxes of ammo, and they guy in front of me cleans them out before it is my turn.

The best thing that I have found to do is to go in to walmart at around 0300 am and check. That is how I have been able to get a couple of boxes of 45acp and 9mm.

Another thing I have noticed. I have actually went out of town to other walmarts, and they will actually have almost a full stock of every popular defense caliber ! I was the one cleaning them out. The guy behind the counter actually asked me if I was going to war. I told him no , that where I was from, there is a severe ammo shortage. He told me that they havent had any issues getting ammo .

[Just One Shot]

The 325 round box of Federal Auto Match ammo at my WM was also 14.47 ... but it has been 14.47 for as long as I can remember. You may be thinking of the 550 round Value Pack for about the same price, which also hasn't increased much in the last 6 months.


This said range ammo on the box. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that their cheaper line?
:confused:

[nc76]

Maybe this has been mentioned already, but I wonder how many of these bulk purchases at Wally World are being made by gun shops that can't get any from the manufacturer and then turn around and jack up the prices to sell it in their store.

[dropride]

I was looking at gunbroker yesterday and couldnt belive some jackoffs were tryin to sell 100rd ww 9mm for $45 a box. I need some ammo but i dont need it that bad.:fire:

[Average Joe]

No ammo shortage, its in everybody's basement !

[Tob]

Years ago I was told to buy ammo a little at a time, every chance I got. While I listned, in regards to some calibers, I did not plan for ammunition in calibers I *might* need in the future (new gun purchases). I've caught up (mostly) with reloading supplies in all calibers, I would like to have a little more loaded. :D

[DocBoCook]

Look at it this way, the ramped up production, when the crisis is over, ammo will be cheap as hell!

[chuckusaret]

I always stocked a minimum of 1,000 rounds per gun. I presently maintain a stock of 15K rounds. I rotate the stock by monthly range usage that is presently only about 250 to 500 rounds. I have stocked large quantities of ammo long before Obumanation got out of grade school.

[2075 RAMI]

Are these people really hoarding the ammo for themselves, or are they buying everything they can get their hands on to sell to the ammo-less suckers at the gun shows for double the price? :rolleyes:

[Ed Ames]

If there weren't a lot of new people going to gun shows and buying ammo for themselves nobody could make any money buying at walmart and selling at the gunshow.

[Redneck with a 40]

At the last gun show I attended, all the winchester white box ammo in 40 and 45 was going for $45/box. I just had to laugh, I've got a cabinet full of reloaded ammo that cost me $6/box.:):neener:

[2075 RAMI]

Yes, at the last gun show I went too, (and its my last gun show, I guarantee), they had WWB 9mm 100 count boxes for $40. Five hundred rounds of 7.62X39 were going for over $200. Now, I'm all for Capitalism and Entrepreneurship, but I have to draw the line at price gouging. :cuss:

I know its tough to do, but if we are ever going to see a return to really good deals and proper pricing at future gun shows, we are going to have to stop attending these shows until the dealers get it.

Oh, and this is my 100th post. Yeah!!!

[colorado_handgunner]

Guys, stop and think for a moment. We have had the highest gun purchase rate in history for the last few months. Those purchased guns are not just sitting in a safe, people are buying ammo and shooting them. While I do not disagree that hoarding has its impact, the sheer number of new shooters and new guns needing ammo are what is causing the main increase in ammo sales.

Historically we saw the same thing with oil. Before the 90's and current decade, Europe and America were the only main consumers of oil. However, starting in the 90's, China ramped up its industry, construction, and middle class. India saw a tremendous increase in their middle class as a result of the technology jobs that blossomed there. As industry increases, oil consumption increases. As the middle class increases, automobile ownership increases and consumption of products created by industry increases, fueling oil consumption.

As a result, demand for oil in the world market spiked tremendously. This demand has not disappeared, but rather plateaued for now. As a result, oil production has increased, however, prices are not nearly down to their pre-China/India levels, and likely never will be since the demand will continue,

We are seeing the same occurrence with ammunition. Ammunition supply will eventually catch back up to demand, as oil supplies did, but the days of $10 ammo are long since over. As long as the demand stays at increased levels than before the rush, we can expect some modulation in prices as supply catches up, but I do not foresee prices coming back down to pre-boom levels, history simply does not support it.

Simply accept that we are going to have to deal with higher prices now, but realize that there are also more of us to promote our cause to the media and politicians. We are not in a crisis, simply a shift in the dynamics of the ammo and firearms industry.

[Ed Ames]

Not to be picky or anything but history has many examples of prices going down after a boom. It is so common that people can toss out a place and product like, "Holland, Tulips" and any historian can tell you when the boom was and how much lower the prices were after than before. The oddity would be a boom that DIDN'T result in lower prices in the long run. The only cases that spring to mind (tobacco and houses) are arguable when you get past taxes (most of the money in tobacco) and inflation (which seriously masks the value decline of a house).

[colorado_handgunner]

I agree that prices will come down from the currently inflated prices, but no where near to what their pre-boom values were.

[Ed Ames]

Can you cite any examples where a boom in a manufactured or grown product (plants, ammo, computers, airplanes, etc) didn't result in a post-boom drop in prices to below pre-boom prices? Remember to factor inflation across the boom into your answer.

The only examples I can think of are in natural resource booms... fishing, logging, etc, where the total value was fixed and the boom was just a rush to market existing worth. Even there you had secondary booms (land because it had forest or other resources, tools to harvest, find, or extract resources, etc) that follow the classic "final value is below initial value" curve.

I see no evidence ammo is an exception.

[dusty78]

eventually production of guns and ammo are going to catch up and that bone stock ar-15 that you spent $1200 is going to be worth $500. I see it already people were selling dpms Sporticles for $1000 (almost $400 above MSRP) and now they are all over gunbroker for $600-700. Same thing with ammo, eventually it will catch up and all those people that paid a super high premium will be assed-out!

[ghostlyspectre]

My brother works at his local wal mart. He's an adult, just got hit with the jobloss facing a lot of america including me. He told me there was a couple guys that owned a pawn shop down the street buying all the ammo they had at Wally back a couple of months ago when you could get all you wanted. He stopped in to look around and they had ammo everywhere and signs out front advertising ammo inside. It was 3 or 4 times the price they bought it for at WM, but they did have ammo for sale. Shortly thereafter, his WM got the word to sell 1 box per customer. I imagine it's happening all over the country, my LGS had some of the Winchester white bonus boxes like WM sells triple priced, and they've never carried any of that ammo. I even asked about getting it in last year and was told it was something they couldn't get. Some arrangement with WM or something to there understanding.
I don't blame a guy thats gonna shoot or store ammo for personal use buying all he wants, but I can't blame a vendor for limiting sales when other business are buying all there ammo up and scalping it down the street. Just another way Greed is raping this country.

[wrc]

What new ammunition manufacturers are ramping up? I'm genuinely curious. Are brass/primer/powder supplies throttling start-up medium-output ammunition manufacturers like a Black Hills, Doubletap, Buffalo Bore, and so on?

How much to start up a primer plant?

How much to re-config a mainline industrial chem plant to powder?

Are there regulatory difficulties, or are potential entrants just taking a perpetual "wait and see" approach that is eating away future returns?

Why aren't manufacturers like Privi or Igman shipping just as many cartridges as they can and ramping up as fast as they can with the better regulatory climate in their zones?

Are there external forces that are preventing international incumbents or entrants into the ammunition market from selling just as much as they can when the prices are high?

[wrs840]

No ammo shortage, its in everybody's basement !

This is a great point. Manufacturers cranking 24/7 and most of it going into private citizens' stock in the US is a really good thing. IMO

Les

[Holgersen]

The sad thing is that all this hording is going to hurt manufactuers in the long run, because anyone who has money has already bought their shooting supplies for the next ten years. Demand is going to drop like a rock and then manufactuers get to lay off workers.

It will be especially awesome if we are still in a recession with a Democrat Congress. I'm sure they would love to bail out all the firearm manufactuers when people stop buying their product (Sarcasm).

The sad thing is the scalpers are probably gun people, because if you are not a gun person you aren't even looking at ammunition.