[David]

Is this Malaysian Prime Minister the world's next Hitler?

from upi.com:

Mahathir: Jews rule world by proxy

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia, Oct. 16 (UPI) -- Malaysian leader Mahathir Mohammed said Thursday the world's 1.3 billion Muslims had less influence than the few million Jews who "rule this world by proxy."

"One-point-three billion people cannot be simply wiped out," Mahathir told the Organization of Islamic Conference summit being held in Putrajaya. "The Europeans killed 6 million Jews out of 12 million. But today, the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them."

He said Muslims worldwide must work together.

"We are all Muslims. We are all oppressed," he said. "We are all being humiliated."

The comments, which came at the opening address of the OIC's 10th summit, were reported by the official Bernama news agency. The summit lasts two days.

The meeting is the first attended by Muslim leaders since the Sept 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington. Russian President Vladimir Putin was also present.

Mahatir also criticized the West for its policies toward the Muslim world.

"Our religion is denigrated. Our holy places desecrated," he said. "Our countries are occupied, our people starved and killed. None of our countries is truly independent. We are under pressure to conform to our oppressors' wishes about how we should behave, how we should govern our lands, how we should think even."

To solve this, he said, "Our countries must be stable and well-administered, must be economically and financially strong, industrially competent and technologically advanced."

He added: "We need guns and rockets, bombs and warplanes, tanks and warships..."

He cautioned, however, "We must not antagonize everyone. We must win their hearts and minds."
******
:cuss: :banghead: :cuss:

[Hkmp5sd]

He added: "We need guns and rockets, bombs and warplanes, tanks and warships..." No problem. We'll even provide free overnight air delivery service courtesy of the U.S. Military.

[critter]

I know who the next Hitler wannabe is. SHE is a senator from New York!

[PeteyPete]

.

[Zedicus]

He seems to be forgetting the destructive force of a modern ICBM.....:neener:

[cloudkiller]

What the Malasian leader said about Jews is ignorant BS and horrendously evil. However, the quote that was posted at the beginning of this thread is incomplete. He was calling for an end to extremism and martyrdom as well, at least according to the quote I read today.


It is funny how both the left and the right use Nazi imagery so much to bash each other. It is actually worthy of some academic study in fact. Luckily with the exception of some very marginalized hatemongers on both sides of the political spectrum no one in American politics truly deserves the label. I would be most terrified of a Pat Buchanan type coming to power in the US, but would hardly call him Hitler.

In terms of the world political scene...hmmm I would have to go with one of the genocidal leaders in Africa as the next Hitler,

[Hkmp5sd]

It's interesting that Hitler is the definitive "evil" figure in the world, yet he is a boyscout compared to Stalin or Chairman Mao.

[Tamara]

But today, the Jews rule this world by proxy.

I thought it was the Gnomes of Zurich? Or was it the Bavarian Trilateral Freemasons?

Anyway, it's pretty dang obvious that this cat's ready to be fitted for a Reynold's Wrap yarmulke. :scrutiny:

[Standing Wolf]

We must not antagonize everyone. We must win their hearts and minds.

I think he needs a new P.R. agency.

[Brian Dale]

Looks like he's re-using time-worn, rabble-rousing polemics: set up a straw oppressor so everybody can feel good, get angry at outsiders and support incumbent politicians. I wonder if there are elections coming up soon, or if it's just that an international conference is a good place to make status points.

It's too bad; 15 years ago, I used to read about what a good, friendly, non-xenophobic place Malaysia was for foreigners who wanted to visit, or to live and work.

{Edited to correct my stupid mistake: he's a PM, not a Pres.}

[Alexey931]

"It's interesting that Hitler is the definitive "evil" figure in the world, yet he is a boyscout compared to Stalin or Chairman Mao."

True. The only fine distinction I can think of: he is the only one defeated among them. I wonder if Sauron could have managed to be the definitive evil of his world without being beaten.

[Jim March]

China is long-term the biggest threat. If another charismatic comes out of their politbureau, the whole world will go rodeo. Even without a dominant strongman, it's a sure bet they're going to go after Siberian resources eventually.

[Dilettante]

Good ideas from Cloudkiller...
What the Malasian leader said about Jews is ignorant BS and horrendously evil. However, the quote that was posted at the beginning of this thread is incomplete. He was calling for an end to extremism and martyrdom as well, at least according to the quote I read today.

I think what M.M. is implying is that the non-Muslim world wants to do the same thing to the Muslims that the Europeans did to their Jews.
His comparison is of the 1.3 billion Muslims of today with the 12 million Jews before the Holocaust. (Of course, that's admitting that the Holocaust happened at all, which already gets him in trouble with Hamas types!)


Luckily with the exception of some very marginalized hatemongers on both sides of the political spectrum no one in American politics truly deserves the label. I would be most terrified of a Pat Buchanan type coming to power in the US, but would hardly call him Hitler.

Yeah...an interesting questions...when can you "get away" with calling your opponent a Nazi even though no one really believes it?

In terms of the world political scene...hmmm I would have to go with one of the genocidal leaders in Africa as the next Hitler,
Some people in Mugabe's government have hinted that they're deliberately starving parts of the country. :fire: (I don't know if this is fact or not, but if it is...)
Kim Jong-Il is still around and in power, doing pretty much the same thing as Mugabe is accused of.

But Jim is right: the big worry, in terms of "world war" level conflict, is China. Nobody else comes close.

[Iain]

It's interesting that Hitler is the definitive "evil" figure in the world, yet he is a boyscout compared to Stalin or Chairman Mao.

I don't hold with that statement one little bit. Might suit anti-communist politics to repeatedly say it - the truth is there are no boyscouts in that unholy triumvirate.

Hitler often qualifies as the most evil in the minds of many, not because the others are communists and everyone is a latent communist as McCarthy rightly knew, but because he engaged in a systematic attempt to wipe an entire racial group off the face of the earth (along with the oft-forgotten Roma, Poles, homosexuals and disabled). Plus there was a really big war if you remember in which lots of Brits, French, Americans and many others died fighting the Nazi regime.

[BigG]

It's interesting that Hitler is the definitive "evil" figure in the world, yet he is a boyscout compared to Stalin or Chairman Mao.

So true, but these type guys have risen to power all thoughout history, this is nothing new. The historical consciousness of most people today could be magnified 1000X, rammed up a flea's posterior, and still rattle around like a pea in a box car.

If they ever knew about the atrocities of the divine right kings they would really get their knickers in a twist in indignation. :rolleyes:

[Waitone]

An idiot with access to a microphone does not Hitler make.

It takes a country to implement said idiots plans.

I agree. China is the long term threat we must watch.

[CZ-100]

No problem. We'll even provide free overnight air delivery service courtesy of the U.S. Military.

I LOVE the site of B-52s Carpet Bombing in the Morning! :evil:

[Hkmp5sd]

and everyone is a latent communist as McCarthy rightly knew,
You might consider reading TREASON: Liberal Treachery From The Cold War To The War On Terrorism by Ann Coulter.

You may not know as much correct information about McCarthy as you think you do. It's interesting how 50 years of the liberal news media can distort a persons actions.

And IMO, people that systematically kill 20-50 million people each are worse than people that kill 6 million. There are different levels of evil. To quote Stalin, "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."

[Silver Bullet]

SHE is a senator from New York
Word for word -- word for word! -- what I was gonna say.

[Iain]

No offence HK, that title doesn't inspire me to believe that it is any less biased than the '50 years of the liberal news'. Was being a little sarky about McCarthyism anyway, not at all serious it just bugs me when people say 'communism is more evil than Nazism' as I will explain below.

In a way you have a point, I do understand what you are saying. Don't know if you have ever heard of a comedian called Eddie Izzard but he did a skit that ran something like -

Kill one person they lock you away for 15 years
Kill 10 people they lock you away for life and study you.
Kill 100 people or more and everyone says 'Well done, where did you find the time? Your diary must be like - wake up, death, breakfast, death, death, death, death, lunch, get hair done, death, death...'

There is a point which all those men exceeded where there is nothing to distinguish them from each other any more. Himmler may not have personally killed thousands, neither may have Hitler or Stalin but they all participated in the deaths of millions and it is difficult to say 'Well 5 million is a bit better than 10 million.'

[Keith]

"We are all Muslims. We are all oppressed," he said. "We are all being humiliated."

Yes, they are being oppressed - by Muslim leaders just like him!

Keith

[Hkmp5sd]

Actually, I wasn't thinking of Communism or Nazism. :) Just the monsters that managed to rule them through fear and murder.

You still might want to read Treason. Only the first part is about McCarthy and all information is completely documented to its source.

There were many things which I had believed about McCarthy that were pure fantasy. It was eye opening.

For instance, I never noticed that for years, it was always McCarthy and the HUAC, House Un-American Activities Committee that was the terror of the nation. Only problem was that McCarthy was a senator and had absolutely no connection with the HUAC. It was the HUAC that went after American Nazis, the KKK, Alger Hiss and Hollywood, not McCarthy and his Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations.

[Hutch]

Yep, the whole "You're Hitler! No, YOUR Hitler" name calling is losing its fizz. Some accusations simply defy refutation. "Racism" comes to mind.

Regarding who the most malevolent figure of the 20th Century, Hitler has got mind share, but deliberately starving Ukrainians by the millions or executing counter-revolutionaries by tens and twenties to get millions is just as heinous as turning them into air pollution. The reason Hitler keeps top billing in the evil Pantheon is that the West has never successfully discredited the goals espoused by Joe and Mao. Doubt you'll find any economics professors in major unversities advocating Aryan supremacy, but you can't shake a tree out there in academia without a Marxist falling out of it.

[cloudkiller]

The reason Hitler keeps top billing in the evil Pantheon is that the West has never successfully discredited the goals espoused by Joe and Mao. Doubt you'll find any economics professors in major unversities advocating Aryan supremacy, but you can't shake a tree out there in academia without a Marxist falling out of it.

I kind of agree Hutch, but the type of communist utopia that the academics often envision, and the type of government run by Stalin and Mao have little, if anything in common. Most academics glorify Castro-esque style socialism, though they would all claim to allow free speech, etc... I think academics tend to be enamored with communist utopian theory -- you know, the fiction that a society could ever evolved as Marx predicted.

Insofar as the issue of relative evil goes, who knows how many people Hitler would have killed if he had been in power long enough. He would probably rank up there with Mao and Stalin. They all shared the same quasi-religious cult-like status, and used it to deviate from any consistent ideology for the sake of some "vision" of the state that didn't need to be bothered by insignificant things, like people.

[Dilettante]

And IMO, people that systematically kill 20-50 million people each are worse than people that kill 6 million.

The Nazis killed well over 6 million people. The figure of 6 million refers to the people who they themselves kept track of to show their progress.

Rummel estimates about 20 million murdered outright, and of course 50 million or so dead because of the war. Most of that was just over the course of 5 years.

[Dilettante]

"It's interesting that Hitler is the definitive "evil" figure in the world, yet he is a boyscout compared to Stalin or Chairman Mao."

True. The only fine distinction I can think of: he is the only one defeated among them. I wonder if Sauron could have managed to be the definitive evil of his world without being beaten.

Yeah. I think Alexey has the right answer here.
If there had ever been millions of American troops in Russia or China I bet that Stalin and Mao would be up there. Seeing this stuff up close has a totally different effect from hearing about it.

[MeekandMild]

So I wonder if he is going to be the one to resettle the Australian territory, once all the 'Stralians are killed? That would give him a bigger base of power.

[hvengel]

The death toll in Europe from WWII was much higher than most believe. The Russians claim that 50,000,000 Russian were killed durring the war. Most historians think this figure is inflated but most put the number between 25,000,000 and 35,000,000. This is just the number of Russians killed. If you add in everyone else the number killed in Europe is very close to 50,000,000 perhaps higher. In addition we put an end to the killing when we put an end to Hitler. How many would have been killed if he had reamined in power for decades like Stalin?

Hal

[telomerase]

In addition we put an end to the killing when we put an end to Hitler. How many would have been killed if he had reamined in power for decades like Stalin?

You're right of course; Hitler would have killed more if he could. But the point is that Stalin and Mao both ACTUALLY killed more people, and went on to get US foreign aid and the undying love of Berkeley professors.

We can't measure how bad people would like to be, just how bad they actually succeed in being. Hopefully some Russian and Chinese movie makers will start making films that expose their respective Gulags; it's clear that Hollywood never will.

[Gary H]

I just finished watching "The Killing Fields" with my Cambodian wife. She had never seen the movie, but her parents carried her through mine fields to escape the concentration camp and resettle in the Thai refuge camps. I think that the question of which regime was most evil begs the question of why others in the world have sat silently while so many have been killed. Of course, the answer is obvious. In the case of Cambodia, it was only important in the context of war with North Vietnam and the Viet Cong. Might there be some evil in this:

http://www.genericgifts.com/product_images/orig/29586.jpg

To punctuate my remarks, it is interesting to note that Dr. Hang S. Ngor, who played Dith Pran, was murdered by an Asian gang on the streets of L.A. He survived death camps in Cambodia, where his wife died, but could not survive on the streets of L.A.. Might there be evil in California when officials in power will not allow the common citizen to defend her/himself?

Amy wrote Governor Davis asking why, in light of the fact that she is 4'9" and 85 pounds, fellow workers have suffered thug induced broken ribs in the parking lot of their hospital and she ends her shift at 11:30; why is she unable to obtain a CCW? OF COURSE THE ANSWER WAS NO ANSWER. Evil comes in many forms.

How about hating Bush and being content to leave Saddam in power, or allowing the enemy to fight only on American soil, rather than placing our troops in his backyard?

[greyhound]

Sweet Jeebus, is it alarming or what that we have the leader of Malaysia railing about "the Jews" (in any sense, lack of complete quote or not)? There are what, maybe 3 people of Jewish persuasion in Malaysia?

How does this anti-semitism make it to a part of the world where there is 0% Jewish population? I try as hard as I can to not equate Islam=anti-semitism, but stuff like this just makes it harder.

Good grief, this guy is often described as a "moderate Muslim leader", then we hear stuff like this.

[Quartus]

the type of communist utopia that the academics often envision, and the type of government run by Stalin and Mao have little, if anything in common.


Don't tell that to the academians - the shock would likely kill them. No, on second though, they would just laugh at you. They're very good at ignoring facts.