[twoblink]

I hear so much of it here on THR, I thought I'd give you all a change to vote for your favorite!!

What IYHO, is THE WORST piece of legislation (as far as guns/firearms) that should have been written on Charmin but ended up getting passed?

We are not talking proposed, but PASSED.

You've got your "waiting periods suck" fans, you've got your "Honey, isn't watching the (AWB) sunset on a beach in Hawaii just romantic?" fans, you've got your "10 rounds good, 11 rounds bad" group..

I think there are a lot of just plain stupid legislation that I'm not aware of that you guys will bring to light.:o

[chaim]

MD built in lock law since only handguns with (approved by the state police) gun locks built into the action may be sold here unless made before 2003. That makes all but about half a dozen gun makers illegal to sell here. Few other laws are quite as restrictive in effect (if you want something not on this list you must find one made before January 1, 2003).

Lets see (by memory, so I may forget one or two), that leaves:
-Taurus
-S&W revolvers only
-Glock has an approved lock but hasn't built any guns with it
-HK
-SA, the 1911s only (not the XD)
-Bersa (I think they have an approved lock now)
-Walther, but only the P22



The runner up (only because it doesn't effect anything yet, it will be #1 when there are guns made that "trigger" the law):

MD, NJ (others?): Smart gun law. As soon as one model is available for commercial sale (I think it has to be out for commercial sale, it may only need to be an "effective" model that has been developed) then only "smart guns" will be legal for sale (I'm not even sure if used guns will be legal for sale). Of course the gov't gets to decide if there is a workable model out, so most likely anything will count.

[Preacherman]

I nominate whoever was responsible for inserting the phrase "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" into the Second Amendment! :fire:

It would have been much simpler to have this Amendment simply state "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

[Frohickey]

NFA34... $200 tax on short barrel shotguns, and machine guns that were a fraction of the cost of the tax.... or $200 on a sound suppressor that is at most less than a dollar in parts and labor, and is a consumable item as well! :mad: :fire: :cuss:

[twoblink]

The PRK's SB489 is a doozy..

Magazine disconnect and loaded chamber indicator required. That leaves I think 3 guns available for the PRK in 2004..

Preacherman, you are of course right.

A simple "Don't touch my guns!" would have been a great slang version of the 2nd Amendment..

[Tamara]

NFA '34

The first is the worst, as it pretty much opened the floodgates for all that came after...

[twoblink]

Frohicky..

18" rifle, no problem. 17.5" rifle = jail!! How's that for a dumb law??

:cuss:

My friend had an "illegal length" saw'ed off shotgun, and he tried to turn it in anonymously, and the police told him, they have no provisions for doing such a thing, as turning it in would result in his arrest.. :banghead: We pass a law in which you have absolutely no method to comply with..

[Tamara]

18" rifle, no problem. 17.5" rifle = jail!! How's that for a dumb law??

Actually, it's 18" for shotguns, 16" for rifles.

But, yes, it is a real paragon of legislative inanity...

[Frohickey]

NFA 34 is the granddaddy of all gun control laws... passed through Congress and signed by stupid FDR, same guy that gave us Social Security. :cuss:

Not only is NFA 34 stupid, it turned cops into people that would carry around tape measures for measuring barrel lengths instead of going and walking a beat and keeping the peace. How much salary is paid out to people working in the BATFE?

[Jim March]

I would vote for discretionary gun permits. The concept evolved in the South and then jumped the Mason-Dixon line in 1911 with the Sullivan law.

As a class of laws, those are the worse.

[willyjixx]

interstate gun sale prevention laws. :fire: :cuss: :banghead:

[Standing Wolf]

All of the above.

[Frohickey]

Free Republic link to NRA response to KABA (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1002310/posts)

Sorry, Jim. I got you involved in this one with my last post. But I just couldn't resist. :D

[Jim March]

I don't post on Freep, sorry, it's a snakepit.

[Brian Dale]

All of the laws that create felonies based on weapon shape, size, function or parts. Felony laws should be directed against violent crimes, and against major theft through either violence or stealth. I notice myself now feeling compelled to state it explicitly: no, I do not and will not break ANY of these laws, regardless of my opinion that they're wrong. If the goal of these laws is to get people to give up the power to control their own purchases and possessions, then in my case they've worked.

[trooper]

Here's one: in my place you have to

1.) be a member of a registered gun club for at least 12 months
2.) prove that you have a need for a certain gun

before you can buy one.


Regards,

Trooper
<stillwaiting>

[twoblink]

Trooper,

Are gun ranges even legal there? From my understanding, the British Olympic shooting team has to leave England to shoot...

I hate to be harsh, but is that applying Hitler-esque laws that were passed for the jews upon all the Germans?

[trooper]

Yeah, fortunately we have a lot of ranges and shooting clubs around here. It's way better than the UK; the German shooting crowd is quite lively...

I'm only pissed off because the gun laws are a complete PITA. No authority should ask me to prove a need for my guns and grant me the privilege of owning them if it deems my reasons sufficient.

And there are lots of petty regulations: handguns have to have a barrel longer than 3 inches, all long guns which were issued in the military after 1945 are illegal, big-bore hundgun buyers under 25 yrs. have to take a psychological test, and so on...

Getting a CCW is practically impossible.

Oh well. Some day I'm gonna emigrate :)


Regards,

Trooper

[trooper]

I have no idea about Nazi gun laws (except that they were especially strict). But today's German gun laws stem from the crackdown on RAF terrorism in the '70s. (Note: Red Army Faction, not Royal Air Force :) )

Before 1972 gun ownership was pretty much unreglemented in Germany.

BTW, Germany's first school killing happened sometime in the 60's. The killer used a homemade flame thrower and a spear. He was stopped by a well-placed shot from some Grandpa's .22 rifle. But nowadays nobody wants to hear about this story...


Regards,

Trooper

[Mark Tyson]

NFA 34 started the ball rolling on all subsequent federal infringements.

[El Rojo]

AB 23. The reason I can't buy an AR15 or any of its varients.

[Mute]

Definitely NFA '34. Talk about a sucker punch.

[Joe Demko]

Whichever law first connected the idea of "gun" and "law" in people's minds. Even if it was what we would consider a "pro" gun law. Gun and law should be mutually exclusive terms.

[Kinsman]

NFA '34

"After the first one, all the rest are free......"

[Hutch]

Can't deny NFA 34 or GCA 68, but when you explain to the non-cognoscenti about the provisions of AWB, the reaction is priceless.

"So, WHICH of these SKS's can't have the bayonet?"

"You mean, if I put the mag in with the american made floor plate, I'm okay, but if I put THIS mag in, I'm a felon????"

"So, when I link the 11th round into the belt, I'm in trouble????"

"What the HELL does a bayonet lug have to do with it?"

[Jrob24]

Laws such as in PRMA, PRNJ, PRIL... that require a license in order to own a gun.

2nd: A dumb MA law that says you can't shoot at a human shaped target at a range that has gun rentals. Though I have seen people breaking that law and the range officers didn't seem to care :)

[Busyhands94]

pretty much all gun control laws in Commiefornia.

[Bernie Lomax]

Lautenberg ban. This is the first time in American history that anyone has ever been permanently deprived of basic constitutional rights as a result of committing a misdemeanor offense, which is what, IMO, makes it especially odious.

[General Geoff]

1968 Gun Control Act. Close second would be the 1934 NFA.

[Art Eatman]

The primary conclusion of the researchers who wrote "Under The Gun", Wright/Rossi/Daly, U of Fla Press, 1985, was that no gun control law passed in the state of Florida had ever affected the rate of violent crime with firearms.

IOW, none of them do any good. Therefore, they're all bad and a waste of time and tax dollars.

[Dreamcast270mhz]

Import ban on Russian/chinese arms. Screw US makers, I want quality soviet arms using mil-spec recievers and not half-arsed stamped versions. Only real reason I dislike Clinton, the AWb don't bother me too much as it is too hard to enforce anyways, my dad had a 2 hundred rnd AK drum he got in 1999 from a trade, sold it after ban expired no issue. Funny thing is it had '97 import mark on it

[Nushif]

Import ban on Russian/chinese arms.

Definitely one of the dumber ones! And highly un-capitalistic at that.
They have a top break .357 I want so bad.

The 'Assault Weapons Ban" is pretty dumb, too. Simply because it's arguably one of the most random pieces of legislation on the face of the planet.

[RS14]

Maybe not the worst, but mention should certainly be made of the Gun-Free School Zones Act, simply for how easy it is to accidentally violate. Carrying legally out of state without a map, dividers, marker, gps, and list of k-12 schools is a good way to become a felon when you wander across the invisible 1000ft line.

[thorn726]

gonna have to go to the root with Preacherman >>I nominate whoever was responsible for inserting the phrase "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" into the Second Amendment!

It would have been much simpler to have this Amendment simply state "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

[RETG]

The state of Illinois:D

[kayak-man]

NFA and all related laws. Would very much like to build my own F/A STEN, cut my H&R Pardner down to a 8" barrel, put a stock on my Hi-Point 45 pistol, and be able to own and use an M-203.

Runner up would be the Gun Free School Zones. I work across the street from a school. I'd love to be able to carry at work.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

[Davey Wavey]

To own a gun in Chicago you need TWO permission slips, state FOID and Chicago CHP. To get the CHP you have to take special classes which aren't allowed, by law, in the city of Chicago.

The FOID is bad enough but a SECOND card? Seriously?

[macadore]

The worst was the machine gun ban. For the first time in U.S. history, an entire class of firearms were banned. That's a blatant violation of the Second Amendment and no one is doing anything about it. If they can ban machine guns, then they can ban anything else. If they could not ban machine guns, then they could not ban anything else.

This, "I don't care if they take your firearms, as long as they don't take mine" attitude will be the death of the Second Amendment.

[smalls]

The ones where they tell me when and where I can/not carry, what I can own with what accessories, and the ones where they charge me large amounts of money to do things the constitution tells me I can do.

[Danb1215]

I really have a problem with "shall inform" laws. Unlike most other stupid gun control measures these manage to infringe on not only the second amendment but the fourth, and occasionally fifth. That said the NFA was pretty bad, but I feel like the GCA was many times worse.

[rajb123]

Mass. gun control laws.

.....I'm a NY resident and traveled to this state this winter on business using a rental car. I tried to buy powder, caps and brass but was denied because you need to be a Mass resident AND have a state permit for these items.

This law is dumb because I am allowed to buy these items legally in any of the other 49 states.

[JellyJar]

Not the worst but the silliest!!!

Laws that state that you cannot CCW into a place of worship!!! :banghead:

You mean to say that people that go to church, temple etc are so immature that they have to be protected from themselves??? :banghead: That they have to give up their right of self defense in order to be allowed to exercise their right of freedom of religion?????

:cuss: Now I must wash out my mouth and ask for forgiveness.

[jbrown50]

I agree with the aformentioned posts in this thread. They're pretty bad, but...

I think the Sullivan Act is probably the worst gun/weapons law ever enacted.

It was sponsored by Timothy Sullivan, a notoriously corrupt New York State Senator and a mobster. The obvious intent of the law was to make it easier to eliminate threats to his and his comrad's illegal operations.

The Sullivan Act continues to be the most prominent example of why politicians support gun bans for law abiding citizens.

[jamesbeat]

I'm from the UK, so I'm going to vote for every piece of UK firearms legislation ever :banghead:

You probably all know about the major bans, but there was one piece of legislation that particularly affected me that you may not have heard about.

Here's a link explaining the basics:
http://www.saddleryandgunroom.co.uk/gunroom/sg_airguns_brocock.htm

Note that the penalty for owning one is now a minimum of 5 years, up to a maximum of 10 years.

For those not familiar with the design, these are air pistols that fire cartridges that are pumped up with compressed air and topped off with a pellet.

I had at least $1,500 tied up in a couple of these guns and associated equipment.
I had broken no laws, and I received no financial compensation when I handed them in to be destroyed.
The reason I received no compensation was that they offered owners of these air pistols the option to obtain a firearms certificate and keep their guns.
If you research what it takes to get a FAC in the UK, you'll see that this wasn't a viable option for the vast majority of people.

I had one of my Brockocks (a SAA that I had bought less than two months before this all happened)) 'deactivated' because I just couldn't bear to part with it. Deactivation involves various welding and cutting operations to make the gun inoperable.
The gun was still away being deactivated when the deadline for handing the guns in had passed.

When I went to pick it up from the gun shop, there was a guy there who was also a Brockock owner. He had been away on business and arrived back after the ban.
The first he knew about it was when he arrived back in the UK and the deadline had already passed.

He was talking to the guy in the gun shop and he seemed very alarmed, in fact he looked like he was going to cry.
I sidled closer and caught the tail end of the conversation, in which the gun shop guy was advising him to "buy a hacksaw, cut it up, and throw the pieces into a canal".

When the guy left, the guy in the gun shop told me that the guy had found out about the ban when he got home from abroad, called the police anonymously from a pay phone, and asked them if he could drop it off to be destroyed.
The police told him that since the deadline had passed, they would have to arrest him if he turned up at the station with the gun.

He'd gone to the gun shop in a panic, hoping they could destroy it for him, but they couldn't do so because the pistol was now an illegal firearm and couldn't be transferred to them legally.
The gun shop guy said that he was supposed to report the incident to the police, as offering to sell/give/lend etc an illegal firearm is also a firearms offense. (he didn't of course)

Remember, this gun was an air pistol.
Some people had modified them to fire .22 ammo, and journalists had got hold of the story.
I never converted mine, and had no intention of doing so. Manufacturing a handgun was already a crime.
They banned the guns and made people surrender them in case they decided to perform the criminal act of converting them.

Basically, guilty until proven innocent.




Happily, I now live in the States.
I just ordered an AK parts kit as a nice little project to work on.
Through the mail.

Merely owning the bolt of this AK in the UK would be classed as a firearms offense, and yes, that carries the minimum 5 year prison sentence.

[USAF_Vet]

I spent a few weeks in NJ last year, and OMG I'm so glad I didn't get that job. I don't know how LGS stay in business in that state. 6 months to get permission to buy a long gun. One LGS employee said a handgun purchase has taken up to three years. You can't buy hand gun ammo without a hand gun owner ID card, and that includes any ammo that can be, or ever has been, used in a hand gun, meaning, I could not buy .22LR or .410 shot shells... which I couldn't anyway because I was not a NJ resident. Absurd.

The NFA 34 was still the one that paved the way for all others.

[kayak-man]

Happily, I now live in the States.
I just ordered an AK parts kit as a nice little project to work on.
Through the mail.

I love a story with a happy ending. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!

Just a suggestion, now that your over here, assuming your loocal laws allow it, have you considered buying a Branock and converting it to .22? Ya know, because you can now?

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

[AuthorityDenied]

I'm a New Yorker (Upstate), we have to many to list.

[mbopp]

NY (and Maryland's) COBIS ballistic fingerprint law for handgun cases. In NY - $40 million spent over 10 years, 2 "hits," and no arrests let alone convictions.
"May issue" on handgun permits and the restrictions local judges put on the permits.

[jamesbeat]

@Kayak-man:
I live in NY and don't have a pistol permit yet, but it might be something to pencil in for the future!
I don't think it would be anywhere as easy as the UK media made it out to be though.
The chambers could be sleeved and reamed for .22 easily enough, but the firing pins were set up for centerfire and mounted in the frame, so it would require at least a modicum of gunsmithing skill.
I believe the illegal conversions had recessed chambers and a plug that you drop in after the round with a firing pin protrusion. This plug would then be hit by the firing pin of the gun.
Sounds a bit crappy to me, I'd relocate the firing pin.
A lot of them were just crappy zinc castings, but there were a few nice ones.
My SAA was a Pietta that had been modified by the Brocock factory. Cost me a fortune, and I never even got to fire it :(

[klcmschlesinger]

FOID

[yhtomit]

I nominate whoever was responsible for inserting the phrase "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" into the Second Amendment!

This whole thread is a case of "Everyone is right," but I think that's the one I'd like the time machine tuned up to correct. The others would probably all then fall into line :)

timothy

[jamesbeat]

...or at least ask them to clarify it a bit more.
I'm sure they'd all be horrified at how their words have been twisted by the anti gunners.

There's one piece of UK legislation that really put the nail in the coffin: "sporting use".
We saw this here with the AWB, and although that sunsetted in most states, the fact that "sporting use" was even brought up shows what a slippery slope this type of legislation can be.
What's wrong (apart from overpenetration) with using a 'black rifle' for home defense for instance.

When shooting gets relegated to become purely a sport, the bans will surely follow.
When a tragedy happens, it's much harder to justify gun ownership based upon sporting use.
The media demand to know why people are dying just so a tiny minority of people can shoot holes in a piece of paper, and then it's game over.

I'd urge everyone to look at the history of firearms legislation in the UK if you haven't already done so. You'll learn some very valuable lessons.

[DammitBoy]

Gca '68

[Sunray]

Resurrected 8 year old post. That a record?

[kayak-man]

Jamesbeat,

I haven't seen the design so I can't say with any certainty, but instead of relocating the firing pin, it may be easier to bend it with a pair of pliers or otherwise modify it so it hits in a different location.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

[Mp7]

what if i tell you that you can have a 5inch hunting knife on your belt
and not have ANY onehand/assisted opening knife?

Here in Germany guns and gun ownership culture are inherited. By OUR conservatives
and rich. And they are unlike in the US not the ones preserving civil rights and liberties.
Here the cons are the one only protecting their power and wealth ...rant-off

so basically ... no right to guns. But if u associate with that "class" of wealthy hunters and sports-shooter-nerds around here .. you will get a license after some time.

That is really "blank" ....insert dismay here.

Many guns. And many in some very questionable hands. Considering
normal people are kept away from them.

[langenc]

Not only is NFA 34 stupid, it turned cops into people that would carry around tape measures for measuring barrel lengths instead of going and walking a beat and keeping the peace. How much salary is paid out to people working in the BATFE?"" Copied from first page.

How much paid to BATFE?? I dont know. I suspect a whale of a lot less than the Dept of EDUCATION-that educates no one and the dept of ENERGY that has yet to produce one drop of energy.

[archigos]

NY: Requiring a concealed carry permit to touch a handgun.
Training is required to obtain a concealed carry permit - but of course, you're not allowed to even handle a handgun in that training.

[geekWithA.45]

While I am tempted to cite '34 NFA as the grand daddy that got the ball rolling, the damage was pretty limited. I really think it was the '68 GCA that did the most damage, because it touched almost every aspect of keeping and bearing arms.

[Phaethon]

BTW, Germany's first school killing happened sometime in the 60's. The killer used a homemade flame thrower and a spear. He was stopped by a well-placed shot from some Grandpa's .22 rifle. But nowadays nobody wants to hear about this story...

I'm pretty sure Germany's first school shooting was in the 20's or something, and that the killer of the Cologne school massacre died from self-poisoning the next day.

[Calibre44]

Jamesbeat wrote: For those not familiar with the design, these are air pistols that fire cartridges that are pumped up with compressed air and topped off with a pellet.

Here's a few pics of mine to show you the gun and carts. I was one of the lucky ones as I already had a Licence and a Gunsafe so was able to keep mine.
Uberti SAA
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/woodsy_2008/Guns/ubertiB-1.jpg
Brocock PPK lookalike:
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/woodsy_2008/Guns/PPKBrocock-1.jpg

[hnk45acp]

+1 on the Sullivan Act

[bbuddtec]

Okay, +1 on the author of the amendment, +1 on Sullivan Act, (horrible, yet poignant relevance to today)

AAAnnnndddd, +1 on NY and can't touch a gun without permit, in theory this goes for anywhere in NY. (range, your home etc. )

We should not concede one tiny gun part anymore, and they are getting junk legislation to go through in order to deplete our resources so we can't get back to our original freedom. Any gun is our guns, ultimately.

Man up and join the NRA, we need to slam these lying hypocrites into the hole they came out of.

After all, wouldn't IRAN be overjoyed we disarmed ourselves? I bet they can't wait for the day... hmmm, maybe some other countries would be overjoyed as well I bet.

Sorry, this blatant manipulation of "public conscience" through the schools and media just gets me down. >rant off

[IcemanUnlimited]

I can own a handgun at age 18 but cannot buy it from FFL until I'm 21? LOL.. Logic..

[lizziedog1]

In California you have to have a hunting license to hunt planted pheasants. I realize this isn't a gun related law, but hunting limitations do hinder gun use.

Also having a list of approved guns. What sate could that be? I'll give you a hint...California!

[jamesbeat]

@calibre44: yup, that is the exact same SAA that I had to get deactivated. Keeping the gun functional was not an option, as to meet the requirements of the FAC, I would have had to spend more money than I had available at the time.
Either way, it would have cost me money, either to buy a safe etc or to turn the guns in, which is why I belive otwas extremely unfair that I received no compensation.
I had comitted no crime whatsoever, but was treated like a common criminal.

@kayak-man, most of the revolvers had a frame mounted firing pin, so bending it to fit wouldn't work.
The SAA pictured above had a hammer mounted firing pin though, so I guess that could be reshaped or relocated pretty easily.
Maybe I'll do that one day just to have the satisfaction of doing it.

Another piece of legislation was that it was illegal for a magazine to have a picture of a handgun on the front cover!
I remember that I had to order guns & ammo from the states for a while. I don't know if this law was temporary though, because newsagents started selling G&A again after a while.
Banning pictures of guns is Orwellian in nature, and scares the crap out of me.

It's weird being an Englishman in New York. I find myself getting indignant about the firearms laws here (AWB, standard cap mags, handguns etc) when only a couple of short years ago I lived in a country where you can't even own a handgun or a centerfire semiauto rifle.

The longer I live here in the States, the more my contempt for the UK grows.