[Kind of Blued]

It doesn't look like this has been posted yet. I'm in the process of developing an opinion, but I'm erring on the side of liking it. The full-length rail is a bit much, but they were already past the point of making it pretty anyway.

http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/uploads/1/stoeger.jpg

At least it's made of wood and metal. :)

http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish/industry/446.shtml


Taken from Michael Bane's Down Range TV e-mail:

Stoeger Introduces New Home Defense Shotgun
By Press Release
May 20, 2009 - 2:46:08 AM

ACCOKEEK, MD (May 15, 2009) -- Stoeger's new Double Defense side-by-side shotgun is a straightforward and economically priced, rugged and reliable home defense shotgun. Ideal for use in tight quarters and tense situations, the Stoeger Double Defense with its traditional break-action and short, efficient design is easy to load and quick to deploy in an emergency.

A double-barrel shotgun has been the defensive firearm of choice for generations, but Stoeger has added practical, up-to-date features to the "tried-and-true" double gun. The Double Defense is chambered for 2 ¾- and 3-inch shells, in either 12- or 20-gauge. The tactical-length 20-inch ported barrels feature fixed, improved cylinder chokes. The fast, single-trigger design and convenient, tang-mounted automatic safety makes the Stoeger Double Defense ideal for home security use.

The Double Defense gun is outfitted with a green, fiber-optic front sight and comes standard with two Picatinny Rail accessory mounts: one on the receiver for speed- or red-dot sights and a second factory-installed rail under the barrels for attaching targeting lasers or tactical lights. All metal surfaces are finished in matte blue and come complete with non-reflective matte black hardwood stock and forearm.

"Stoeger's new Double Defense shotgun is a perfect choice for high-stress, self-protection situations where simple is best," said Stephen McKelvain, Benelli USA's VP of Marketing & Communications. "If you want a gun that's easy to use and quick to handle - and one that won't crush your finances - the Stoeger Double Defense is your shotgun of choice."

Specifications:

Model: Double Defense
Gauge: 12- and 20-gauge (3-inch)
Barrel Length: 20-inch
Barrel Features: Ported with fixed IC chokes
Sights: Fiber Optic Front Sight
Metal Finish: Matte Black
Stock Finish: Matte Black-finished hardwood
Average Weight: 6 1/2 lbs.
Overall Length: 36 1/2-inches
Length of Pull: 14 1/2-inches
Trigger: Single

[Gordon]

Length of pull 14 1/2" ?????? Bill o'Reilly or bigger, or clay birds in hawaaian shirts???

[-v-]

Kinda neat, but not my cup of tea.

On the up side a 20" SxS is still shorter then a 18" pump...

How come it can't handle 3.5" 12ga shells?

[Ohio Gun Guy]

The flash light is kind of like a laser sight for that SXS. It probably shoots that big of a pattern at 25'.

Not for me, but what the heck?:cool:

[Badger Arms]

Home defense screams 18" barrels and a 12.5" LOP. I think it's kinda cute. Needs a sidesaddle mounted on that picatinny rail under the barrels. Maybe two, if you have room!

[piratelooking@40]

I've seen a picture of Clint Smith holding a SxS with a flashlight duct-taped under the barrels, so he thinks it's worth doing. And if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right. Just because it's a double doesn't mean you have to wear chaps and call yourself Festus.

[2RCO]

It's ab EBSxS coming soon the EBOU!

[2RCO]

Oh I forgot the EBD!

Evil Black Drilling

[Kind of Blued]

Home defense screams 18" barrels and a 12.5" LOP.

I agree. The only reason they're 20" is because Stoeger already has the barrels for their traditional coach guns lying around.

I also like a youth stock on any shotgun which might serve more than one purpose, but especially on a HD gun. If you want to shoot more comfortably for extended periods, tossing a Limbsaver on there gives you the proper LOP and reduces felt recoil at the same time.

[Virginian]

It has more rails lengthwise than needed, and it ought to have double triggers, but otherwise I would say it is imminently practical.

[rbernie]

Hmm - it has some novelty. But ported barrels on a HD/SD shotgun? Ugh.

[JohnBT]

I was thinking duck gun, but not if it's ported.

Come to think of it, I hate porting. Speaking of home defense, does it come with sunglasses?

John

[MCgunner]

Home defense screams 18" barrels and a 12.5" LOP.

Why is it that a gun shouldn't fit properly just because you're killing humans instead of ducks with it? :rolleyes: My Daisy Red Rider had more pull than that. And, I was under the impression that most coach guns were 20" guns to keep them of legal length, though I haven't measured the OAL of one.

Rails? I don't need no stinking rails!

[NG VI]

I love it. Everything about it looks good to me. Throw a flashlight and bayonet on there and it's good to go. Maybe not the bayonet, but I'm not sure it could hurt. Takes some of the argument about long guns being easier to grab in close quarters away, since the closest part of the weapon would be a blade.

[MCgunner]

Yeah, and you could put on a clown suit and perform with it at the NRA convention. :D

[NG VI]

Only if I can attach strobing flashbang devices to it as well.

[chas08]

Not my Cup-o-Tea. :barf:

[ArmedBear]

Why is it that a gun shouldn't fit properly just because you're killing humans instead of ducks with it? My Daisy Red Rider had more pull than that.

I'm with you.

A 12.5" LOP on a coach gun is good for what, exactly? Breaking your nose with your thumb?

(Unless you're 5'0" or shorter of course.)

[rcmodel]

I predict the hinge pin will shear off the first time you open it quickly, due to all that extra weight hanging out on the end!

rc

[jakemccoy]

I don't get it...crazy kids.

[rbernie]

I predict the hinge pin will shear off the first time you open it quickly, due to all that extra weight hanging out on the end!You think that a light on the end will add considerably more stress than the 8" of barrel that normally sit out there at the end of the barrel/lever? ;)

[rcmodel]

It was a joke!

I forgot the smiley face!

rc

[oneounceload]

I'm surprised they didn't make the stock out of black plastic in deference to all the black gun folks.......

Seems like an answer to a question that hasn't been asked

[MCgunner]

I'm surprised they didn't make the stock out of black plastic in deference to all the black gun folks.......

Knox will probably bring out a pistol grip stock for it soon enough. Unfortunately for the kids, a folder probably would make it illegally short.

[ArmedBear]

BTW isn't this akin to a Jeff Cooper idea?

[jbkebert]

I havent the words to descibe how ugly that is.:barf:

[RX-178]

.....I've gotta have one. Just because it's so weird.

[Snarlingiron]

Finally. Mossberg has some competition for idiotic shotguns.

[Rshooter]

I see myself putting twin lights on it, some crook will think he is about to be run over by a car. If he is stoned by any amount the reaction might be priceless, specially if I can get a small blue strobe light for the top. :what:

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I don't know about that, Snarling.


Those Roadblocker, and Poseidon'sBeard shotguns mossberg is producing are ridiculous and pointless.


I can definitely see the point to the stoeger.

[Mooseman]

How much are they asking for that beast? I was thinking of making a sbs at some point and I'd have zero guilt about cutting that critter.

[jbkebert]

Since nothing is sacred any more. How long will it be before we see a hawken with 8 picatinny rails on it, lazer sight, flashlight, strobe light, stop lights and other crap plastered on it.:rolleyes:

[MCgunner]

Since nothing is sacred any more. How long will it be before we see a hawken with 8 picatinny rails on it, lazer sight, flashlight, strobe light, stop lights and other crap plastered on it.

I never thought of that, but the octagon barrel sort of lends itself to tacticool, don't it? NOT MINE, THOUGH!!!!!! Hey, I already have the 20" barrel on mine, too.

I don't guess it'd be wise to have a bayonet on a Hawken when you're loading, though, eh?

[jbkebert]

I don't guess it'd be wise to have a bayonet on a Hawken when you're loading, though, eh?

Why not it will mount to the new bull pup stock and be three inches below barrel.;)

[Coronach]

OK.

I'm all for anyone doing just about anything with their own gun, and I'm all for makers churning out all sorts of odd stuff that might not be my cup of tea, but may be someone else's.

That said, this ain't my cup of tea. And I'm not sure whose cup of tea it would be, really, beyond someone who wants something just because it is novel. Just because you can MAKE a sxs tactical, doesn't mean it will ever be adequate in the role. And, just because you can use a sxs as a HD weapon in a pinch (and you certainly can) does not mean that you should go out and plan to do so and procure the most tactical sxs you can. On the contrary, if you're shopping for guns on teh intarwebz, you're most assurredly NOT in a pinch, and if you're worried enough about HD to buy a gun for the role, you shoudl buy one that is actually good at it, not this.

Mike

PS This may have limited usefulness in areas that don't allow pump-action shotguns (or anything else) but do allow sxs guns.

[Hawk]

BTW isn't this akin to a Jeff Cooper idea?

You, sir, have an excellent memory.
A lady of our acquaintance, who lives alone, has asked us what sort of instrument is best for house defense in her case. To me the answer is easy: The "Lupara," a double-barreled 12-gauge shotgun with exposed hammers and short barrels. I understand the term Lupara is Sicilian and means approximately "wolf killer." Such a piece is enormously authoritative, it is easy to use, it requires minimal training in its management, and it may be left loaded and uncocked indefinitely on the closet shelf. The only precaution is to seal the muzzles with scotch tape or cotton wool to avoid the building of nests in the barrels by little varmints.

Such items are available from Rossi and Baikal, though you may have to hunt around for them at gun shows. Usually they are very reasonable in price.

-- Jeff Cooper's Commentaries, Vol 2, No. 3.


Still, I agree more with Coronach's notes,

They've lost the exposed hammers, the single trigger is marginally less reliable than double triggers (if my CZ was any indication).

The Clint Smith video was a great lesson in using what one was familiar with and improvisation but the Stoeger seems like contrived improvisation (oxymoron?) and is likely to be purchased by someone unfamiliar with its operation - quite unlike those that have used, say, a 311 to the point it's like a body part.

[tactikel]

Lets see, 1500 grains of lead @ 1250 fps -no overpenetration and no ricochets- in a easy to use format for high stress situations, 100% reliability, and easy to point and swing- NOOO it's a joke for HD:what:

[Hawk]

...100% reliability

My experience with lower end single trigger doubles forces me to doubt that 100% appraisal.

[Lookn4Brass]

At least they didn't put "Tactical" on the heading. I don't have clothes cool enough looking to own this model. :D

Seriously, though, I would probably hurt myself on the rail notches. I spent too much time with an un-accessorized Stevens double barrel as a kid. I love coach guns!

[Mat, not doormat]

I am truly beginning to loathe the entire concept of a home defense double barrell. Yes, a SxS is better than a sharp stick if it's all the gun you've got. Who in the world would actually shop around and come to the conclusion that it's actually a good idea?

And not only that, but a Stoeger? Cripes, I got rid of my stoeger for SASS, because I couldn't trust the silly thing enough to play a GAME with it. I managed to mushroom both firing pins, break the extractor star, break one sear outright, and the other wore to the point of perpetual doubling, or even going off when the gun was closed, broke the forward hinge lug, stretched the rear locking lug, and split the barrells from the solder-job. That's just trouble I had with one, doesn't even go into all the issues I've seen with other peoples'. I wouldn't come close to betting my life on one if I had any other choice in the world.

Add a single trigger into that mix? What are they smoking in Brazil, these days? They might do better to ship that stuff up here than guns like this.

~~~Mat

[inSight-NEO]

I love "tactical" looking weapons, but this one is nasty and just plain weird looking. Heck, even my 590 is a beauty queen next to this bowser! :rolleyes:

Mossberg has some competition for idiotic shotguns.

Hey now...no Mossberg slams. Sure, some Mossbergs are a bit gimmicky, but for the most part their designs are right on. Besides, the "ridiculous" versions Mossberg tends to put out at least look cohesive, if nothing else.

If Rambo and John Wayne were to mate (if possible), then this particular gun would be the result.

[Positrack]

Dear Lord...

It took me a second to grasp just exactly what I was looking at. Well, I guess the rail would make the zip-ties-over-the-broccoli-rubber-bands flashlight attachment system I used to use on my ancient Remington double unnecessary but... :scrutiny: ...doesn't really float my boat. Plus, I'd at least want double triggers.

Somehow I can't see this thing being carried on the fox hunt. It sure would be an attention getter though...:D

[Spot]

The 1st I thought when I saw it was, What, no hammers & double triggers? :scrutiny:

[MCgunner]

Mike

PS This may have limited usefulness in areas that don't allow pump-action shotguns (or anything else) but do allow sxs guns.

Well, I keep a SxS by the bed, 20 gauge at that. I have a pump and an auto. I could buy a short barrel for the pump or just use it as is, but I like the double's quickness. I have never had the plug out of my Mossberg's magazine and have never fired a lead round out of it that I can recall, lots of steel, some hevishot, no lead that I can remember. I got it for waterfowl.

I hunt with all my guns. They get shot a lot. My little 20 is death to doves. I'm quick, accurate, and natural with that little gun. Go with your 5000 round pump. I only need the double to impress upon anyone not to jack with me. :D It only really takes one shot in the bedroom door, anyway. I don't think they're going to be lined up in the living room trying to get at me after I kill the first one. If they break the lock on the safe room door, they're dead. If they don't try that, the cops will be here quick enough. If I was ever compelled to leave the bedroom to investigate something, I'll take my .38 or my .357 magnum which reside by the bed in the night stand and my 9x19 is usually in the pocket of my pants if I have time to put them on.

I don't need no stinkin' battle rifle or shotgun for home defense. I'm quite good with what I actually shoot at game and kill things with. Flashlights? I don't need no stinkin' flashlights! And, that stupid holosight or whatever it is would be totally worthless. I don't need no stinkin' sights, don't use sights to kill 35 yard flying doves, don't need 'em on a man moving through my bedroom door.

Anyway, that's my strategy and it works for me. There are no rules to what I should use as a home defense shotgun. I could use my 10 gauge single shot and be happy with it. But, it's kind of heavy and the little 20 handles faster and I'm more natural with it since I shoot it more, clays, doves, rabbits, I use that thing for everything, but waterfowl and I've even taken it duck hunting a few times with 3" steel loads.

Ain't got rails on it....

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=92812&d=1234752687

[Lee Lapin]

I don't mind a SXS for defensive use, but I'd much rather have double triggers and working hammers than all those rails and optical sights.

lpl

[gunsandreligion]

Home defense screams 18" barrels and a 12.5" LOP.I think a double with 20 inch barrels is shorter tha a pump or auto with 18 inch barrels.and its too bad they dont have interchangeable ckokes on it if it did it would be a great coyote shotgun.

[earlthegoat2]

Why doesnt it have a provision for a side saddle.

I wonder if these are going to be CAS legal.

[Dave McCracken]

Picture a large, old man looking over his glasses with jaundiced eyes....

First, an unmodified,RELIABLE SxS is an acceptable choice for HD, though mine, had I one, would have outside hammers and more than one trigger. A single bead mounted low between the barrels will suffice. There's no faster aiming system made and for close up work it'll do well.

A light's usually a good idea.

And stock fit applies even more to guns we may need to protect our families and selves with than it does to those we clay shoot and hunt with.

The parameters vary as to what makes good fit, but in general a shorter LOP is good.

As for the one pictured in the opener, I see little there that's an improvement over an classic Lupara or coach gun.

[JohnBT]

Forget the light, this thing is just crying out for a bayonet.

https://www.kabar.com/images/PistolBayonetHome3-09.jpg

[MCgunner]

Pirates used those things, well, built into a single shot muzzle loader it made sense. LOL

http://www.knifepistols.com/merriman_products.htm

Here's something neat I found......



http://www.knifepistols.com/Ken%27s%20Gun.gif

[Positrack]

That ^^^ is just cool. Plus, you just flip open the blade and presto! You've got your bayonet! :D

[seeker_two]

I'm a big advocate for the SxS coach guns for HD (short OAL, easy to learn, no "short-shuck"), so I'm glad that Stoeger is making a step in this direction. However, this offering falls short. Here's what I'd like to see....

Bring back the short 12" LOP.

Use regular wood finish instead of the "tacti-black" junk.

Double trigger (much more reliable and, if one barrel fails, you can still shoot the other).

Shorten that under-rail....you only need about 4" under the front of the barrel.

Offer a 12ga. version....more ammo choices.

Offer a .410/.45LC version w/ Paradox-rifled barrel....good for recoil-sensitive & more useful than a Taurus Judge.

Sell the barrel set as an option for those of us who own Coach Guns already. :D

[Colton White]

i like it no wait i hate it... i think?