[P95Carry]

Thought of this whilst on a thread I started showing my handguns ..... Tams asked re a Webley.

My MKVI is pretty original ... I rebuilt it and re blued (only cold but ----- it ain't bad). I've posted a pic before.

Big thorn in side tho is - Numrich supplied me with a new locking lever return spring .... and it was WAY different .. didn't even fit right until tweaked.

As a matter of interest I show the CAD pics I did to send to Numrich to see if they'd be able to get ''real'' ones made. Very little response I'm sad to say.

However, in case any spring makers out there ... any thoughts? This would I admit be one mother of a difficult spring to make!

Pics not as big as I'd like but ... may give some idea. I must try and repost with better ones and also maybe reverse the images to negative .. the blue writing can't be read very easily.


http://www.bedford.net/design/cb_gun2/mkvi_springs_01.gif


http://www.bedford.net/design/cb_gun2/mkvi_springs_02.gif

[Old Fuff]

Finding parts for older guns, particularly frequently broken parts, or for foreign makes, can be difficult at best. Often the only available supply of original parts is from cannibalized firearms, and this is a very unsure source of supply. Another option is an aftermarket part, but as you’ve found out they present problems of their own.

The only thing I can suggest is to shop around different companies who sell parts for out-of-production guns and see if something turns up. If it does expect it to be expensive, but that’s the way things go. It’s a matter of supply vs. demand.

Last but not least, try Dixie Gun Works. (www.dixiegunworks.com).

They supply parts for antique or reproduction muzzleloaders. Send them a copy of your drawing of the original spring (1 to 1 scale if possible so they can use it as a pattern) and hope they have something that can be modified to work in your gun. Don't expect it to work as received, but who knows, you might get lucky.

[P95Carry]

Thx for the input Fuff ...... I did explore various avenues back then and had hoped GPC might have come up with something.

The replacement spring does of course work .... tho when first fitted wanted to ''pop out'' too easily! Now it is ''settled'' .. it's pretty much OK. Just does not look right.

If you look at dwg's ..... the replacement spring has its ''register pin'' as actually no more than a pressed ''dimple'' .... not good for secure registration at all. The original OTOH has a full and clean cut register pin as part of the spring ... that in itself, as well as the sharp folded nature of the original ....... does probably make it diabolical to reproduce. In fact I have wondered just how the original was produced!!

[Old Fuff]

When the original spring was made a piece of annealed spring stock that was wider then the finished part was milled or filed down to leave the square tab or, as you call it, the "register pin." Then the spring was formed and heat treated to make it a true spring.

Some of the springs that Dixie Gun Works has were made in this way. While it's unlikely they'd have one made for the Webley, they might come close.

Gunsmiths of the old school of doing things can make a spring the same way as was described above. But in this day and age they wouldn't likely be inexpensive.

Both Dixie and Brownells (www.brownells.com) sell annealed spring stock and offer "how to" instructions if you like to try your hand at it.

[P95Carry]

The tab Fuff is actually round ... but be that as it may ....... it sure is the one aspect which deters me from trying!

I did some ways back invest in a selection of assorted spring stock from Brownells - and the ''how to'' instructions. I am an engineer and have ''played'' many times with spring making ..... but, know what? It's a black art ..... more than a science .... well for me anyways!!:rolleyes: :p

I guess I'll live with the ''wrong'' spring ..... cos as you say ..... prolly gonna be one fierce cost penalty for gettin one made! Thx for your thoughts Sir. :)

[bfoster]

I don't know if the product is suitable (though I have used many of their other offerings over the years without cause for any complaint), but W. C. Wolfe (http://www.gunsprings.com/) offers a spring that is intended to be used on the barrel catch (listed as the barrel latch) of a mk VI.

Bob

[Old Fuff]

Bob;

I'm not sure, but I think that's the same spring offered by Numrich/Gun Parts. But anyway, it might be worth giving them a call ....

[P95Carry]

Thx guys ..... appreciate the further input ..... went to the page where they are listed and tho a pic is mentioned, no pic displayed!

So not sure if same as Numrich on or not .... on reflection I'd guess it probably is. I'll check this out tho and thx again.

[Josey]

DGW has some items that are catalog items. I bought their catalog and found a small section of Spanish revolver springs. They fit Belgian, French, British and German revolvers so far.

[mec]

I got one or two of these from numrich a few years ago. The owner had screwed up the original latch spring for some unknown reason - but the replacement worked without any fitting.

[4v50 Gary]

Kit Ravenshear wrote a booklet on making springs and it's relatively inexpensive. You may want to pick it up and try it yourself. I've taken one class (taught by Jack Brooks) but a longer 5 day class is taught by NC gun builder Jim Chambers. Jim is a good instructor and teaches lock assembly at the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association's Gun Building Workshop. His classes are generally well filled up but he covers spring making and has you file and heat treat & temper & test your spring. Bear in mind this is for flintlocks which require at least two (actually three if you include the sear spring) springs: mainspring (for the cock) and frizzen (also called battery, steel or hammer) spring. However, lessons for flintlock springs also applies to your home made Webley Spring.

Twin Pines Armory has an old guy (the owner) who makes springs and if you can find him, he'll probably make one for you. He did for me for an older transition Colt revolver (the action that preceded the Python action).

[P95Carry]

Thx Gary ... not so sure I don't have that book .... sounds familiar .. it's ...... somewhere!!!

Two Pines ......... hmmm, have to investigate that .. any link or address etc ...?

Thx again

[4v50 Gary]

In the vastness of my (small) house, in some unknown box, is a catalog from Twin Pines Armory. Just where I don't know and that's exactly why I need to build a couple more bookcases. I've a ton of books on the floor and hardly any floorspace left.

[P95Carry]

I've a ton of books on the floor and hardly any floorspace left. Sounds like my old office!!! Have just moved into a new one and have best of intentions ..... but ''flat-surface-itis'' usually gets the better of me!

If it does turn up at all ... let me know but no sweat. thx

[tex_n_cal]

comments from a springmaker...I've never seen one of these springs firsthand, but here's some impressions based on experience....

The sharply folded original was probably hot formed - you're going to have trouble getting spring steel to cold form that sharp a bend, even if it's fully annealed.

Re: the pin I'd drill a hole in the spring and carefully press a pin into it - that's provided the hole isn't too close to the edge, hard to tell from the print. If it is too close to the edge, then yes you have lots of whittling to do to make a pin :D

On any leaf spring, be sure you radius the outside corners. Cracks always start at corners, when parts are stressed in bending. That's a good preventive maintenance tip for you the next time you tear down that priceless Peacemaker or Purdey and want to prevent spring breakage.

Show me a photo of the original and I can probably tell a little more about it.

This really isn't a hard spring to make, just tedious. To exactly duplicate one would take several hours, and you could guess what that would cost.

[P95Carry]

tex_n_cal - I hear ya .....

I guess the trouble of copying an original, faithfully, is indeed impractical ..... the replacement one is at least functional and from a manufacturing standpoint probably the only way to go. Main pity of it is, that not only is it not a true ''folded'' spring but the ''cheat'' to get over the register pin/peg is by pressing a (to me) rather ineffectual and unreliably shallow, dimple.

I think I have to be realistic tho ....

[Jim K]

Oddly enough, I wasn't in England 100 years ago, but I'll bet that spring was hot forged, pin and all, then reheated red hot and bent, then tempered and annealed. Then maybe some filing to fit.

I am pretty sure the modern replacement is stamped out of spring steel with the pin stamped at the same time. Then the whole thing is bent, heated, quenched and annealed.

You can have a good spring maker make a spring like the original by hand. I won't say what I think it would probably cost as I don't want to be responsible for heart attacks.

Jim

[4v50 Gary]

On any folded leaf spring, polish, polish, polish. You don't want any scratches on the surface as it weakens it and promotes hydrogen embrittlement (work hardening).

Went back to the Firing Line to see if I could find the address there but had no luck either.

[P95Carry]

Thx for trying Gary ... I think now realism is gettin the better of me!:)

The polishing trick .. oh yeah .... the few springs I have made ... always paid great attention to that .. all the more reason why, when my heat treatment was not spot on ..... and ''spring'' either went ''snick'' .......or bent like soft putty ..... I cursed even louder for all the input of time!!:D