How to Solve the Ammo Crisis

[SharpsDressedMan]

Everyone that loads his own could have someone that DOESN'T reload come over and learn to reload, and TOGETHER they could load a couple boxes for the newbie. I live in NE Ohio. Local people interested can meet me at my place, bring their brass, and we'll show you how, and maybe cast up some bullets together, too. I'm not going to do it all for you, but I will show you how it's done, and get you started. I believe I have the equipment to load most all common calibers of pistol and revolver stuff. If this happened all over the country, we'd all be better off in ALL emergencies.......

[David E]

Good luck finding primers.....and bullets....

I'd be willing to teach them how, as I've done in the past, but THEY need to bring all of the components, especially now.

[edelbrock]

Yeah except primers are harder to find than ammo.

[raskolnikov_22]

I stopped by Bass Pro yesterday. They had a box of .41 Mag, a can of Titewad, no bullets and no primers.

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'm going to set aside a 1000 primers. That's not a lot. Having been at it for awhile, I still have more at hand. If each fella I help out ends up with 50-100 rounds, I may have sacificed some primers, but I've taught maybe 10-20 guys how to roll their own, and reduced the demand on the market. If we all just take one NEW reloader under our wing, then we have reduced demand all over the country. The resulting overstock of high priced ammo will enable the ammo/primer producers to have time to restock the primer market. They will resultingly be selling WAY more primers and components in the future, keepin the price of ammo down. It's all theoretical, of course, but it's worth a try.

[Bailey Boat]

"If we all just take one NEW reloader under our wing"

Personally I average about 3 to 4 per year with a 75 to 80% chance that they will stay with it....... Makes me feel that I'm "paying it back".......

[alfack]

I think the solution to the "ammo crisis" lies in people not purchasing from middle-men who mark the price up so high. For example, my local gun shop has 380 in stock for $15.50. I'm quite sure that represents at least a 10% mark-up. Others are trying to get $30 for 1 box. That is at least a 300% mark-up. I.e. don't enable the gougers.

[BullsEye10x]

^^ What he said. Don't feed the price gougers!

WE, the gun owners, are the cause of the current ammo shortage and high prices. We have no one to blame but ourselves. Next time you buy ammo, leave some for the next guy in line. I hear people bragging all the time about how they "bought all the place had", often calibers they don't even own or shoot.

The right way to build up a stockpile and not create shortages is to continually buy small - moderate quantities over time, and invest more when prices are low (as opposed to astronomical like ammo is now). The world is not going to end tomorrow!!! If everyone would just relax for a few weeks, things would go back to normal much faster.

[John Parker]

And then when a case gets a double-dose of powder and blows up the newb's gun and sends him to the hospital, he can sue them! I don't sell or give my reloads away for the liability problem.

[SharpsDressedMan]

I never have double charges, so the fear doesn't strike me. I deon't know what to tell you.

[ArchAngelCD]

Most shops will mark up ammo ~40% during "normal" times. These days lord knows what they are marking up...

[Vonderek]

I don't know how reloading will alleviate the ammo crisis when components are as hard to get as ammo or nonexistent.

[Ed Ames]

I like the math of $15.50 = 10% and $30 = 300% ;)

Seriously, though... teaching more people to reload is good but, given the fact that reloading equipment and supplies have been short as well, they are probably learning already.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Some of you folks aren't getting it yet. When you groom a reloader, he will see that he CAN provide his own ammunition, thus relieving his present "anxiety" a bit over not being able to get ammo. If you share a little of what you can (brass, bullets, primers)..... sheesh....I think we could all share a little...then Joe from next door has another box, and has learned how to make more. Casting bullets. Hell, I could DOUBLE all of my available ammo if I had even cast bullets on hand. Powder seems to be fairly available. Sure, primers are the controlling factor, but still, giving out the knowledge of "how to" is something we can do right now, with little invested or parted with. If this relaxes the demand a bit, that has to be a good thing overall. It's not going to happen overnight, but I think my idea is a step towards reducing the overall demand, and making other shooters more self reliant.

[colorado_handgunner]

Some of us can't reload. If you live in an apartment, it is rather frowned upon if you are storing gunpowder! An apartment is a little different from your garage.

[Ed Ames]

I don't see the problem with apartment reloading... a pound of powder is no worse than a liter of olive oil when it comes to making an apartment fire worse.

I do see a problem with the premise that teaching people to reload will cut the demand for ammo. It assumes the ammo purchases are irrational and based on unreasoned fear.

The reality is that most gun owners barely had any ammo at all. People really did buy, do buy, a gun and a box of ammo and think that's enough..except that right now we have hard evidence that it isn't enough. So these people who bought 20 rounds for 5 years of shooting now want 100 rounds on hand. The supply chain is scaled for 4 rounds a year and this year the market wans 100 rounds. That's a 25x increase... that will last exactly long enough for people to go from having one box on hand to five boxes on hand.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Ed, do you have a better idea?

[Ed Ames]

Go fish?

[SharpsDressedMan]

Oh, that's just GREAT! Now you'll have everyone out buying fishing gear all at once, creating another crisis!

[iScream]

I don't quite see how any of this could remotely be considered a crisis. What happens if any one of us doesn't get to go to the range for a weekend or two? Will we starve? Do children suffer?

I just started shooting handguns about a year ago and I've probably averaged 700 - 800 rounds a month during that time. It would suck if I couldn't shoot as much but what is the big deal in the end? Even if the worst possible nightmare scenario played out and we find our selves with civil unrest, do we really believe we are going to be shooting so many people that we need hundreds of rounds for self defense?

It sure seems like a lot of people who really don't shoot all that much are now freaking out as if somehow that 50 rounds a month they shoot on average won't be available in the future. I'm pretty sure it will be.

Even if the current executive and legislative branches of our government manage to add some kind of new tax on ammo, which I don't think is likely, it probably won't increase the price of your ammo nearly as much as some idiots apparently are willing to pay right now because they believe this is some kind of crisis.

Some people really need to get a grip...

-Chris

By the way, this post isn't directed at any particular person, especially SharpsDressedMan.

[MattTheHat]

If we all did this, we would indeed make a small dent (very small) in the demand for loaded ammo. Big deal, we don't need any of that any how. What we will also do is create an even higher demand on bullets, primers and powder. THOSE we DO need.

That all being said, I taught a friend of mine to reload just a couple of weeks ago.

With friends like these, who needs enemies. :)


-Matt

[SharpsDressedMan]

O.K. Let's change "ammo shortage" and "crisis" to " annoying problem for some people". There, is that better? :)

[iScream]

Yes, thank you. I feel much better now. :p

-Chris

[John Parker]

Liters of olive oil don't usually violently explode as they burn. Plus, it takes a good amount of flame to get them doing.

[Ed Ames]

Smokeless powder doesn't violently explode when it burns. Neither does black powder in the real world.

The only concern is that your powder store may catch fire along with the rest of your apartment if your apartment burns. It probably will...if your apartment burns. When your apartment burns there is a good amount of flame available to set curtains, clothes, furniture, carpet, food, and everything else ablaze. The energy released by a pound or five of powder will be dwarfed by the energy released by your couch at that point.

Reloading is not done around open flame. You do not smoke, burn candles, operate a blowtorch, or anything else that can cause ignition while reloading. When dealing with primers you have at most very small amounts of powder present... you could set all of that powder on your kitchen table and light it with a match... and the worst outcome would be damage to the table finish.

I just measured out the powder charge for a .223, poured it out on a ceramic tile I had lying around, and lit it. It took three matches before I actually got it to catch (the first two changed the color of some of the powder but burned out before the pile caught) and when it did catch the flame marched across the pile in about 4 seconds. It was a good amount of flame (about 10" tall, 1" diameter) but the surface of the tile was barely warm when I put my finger in the ashes immediately after it burned out. Don't do that right under your origami collection and you'll be fine.

I would strongly advise against storing powder in your oven or loading in your kitchen while cooking. Beyond that... get real. It is no more dangerous than having an aerosol can or cooking oil.

[MacTech]

I'm glad I got into reloading when I did, not only does it allow me to produce gobs of .45 ACP cheaply (even at my heaviest powder load, i'm looking .13¢ per round, $13.44 per box of 100, as opposed to $29.95/100 for WWB at wally), but it's a fun hobby in it's own right, it allows me to put together combinations of bullet style and powder load you *can't* get with off-the-shelf ammo

Thank Og I decided to stock up on primers before the "panic", I have a little over 2,000 primers (500 or so are already in cases, waiting to be reloaded), and before I get accused of "hoarding", these primers were purchased well before the panic, not purchased as a reaction to all the paniced buying frenzy and they will be *used* to build ammo, not resold.

I haven't bought a box of commercial .45 in well over six months, I have a decent supply of fired 9mm brass that I've been contemplating reloading, but I'm not sure it'd be worth the expense right now, I'd have to get a new shell holder for my press (Lee Pro 1000) and set of dies, as well as small pistol primers and bullets, and at todays prices, that's not financially practical, so the 9mm gathers dust until ammo prices drop and/or availability of commercial ammo comes back up

[jeff-10]

This thread will probably get moved to the massive ammo thread if it hasn't been locked yet.

The ammo situation will resolve itself. The economy is in a free fall and if there is money to be made manufacturing or importing ammo people will be more than glad to do it. Eventually so much will be produced and in circulation that the internet scalpers won't be able to clean out Wal Mart and Outdoor World fast enough and the supply will be back to normal. Just give it time. Nothing wrong with introducing people to handloading though.

[Double Naught Spy]

I am still trying to figure out how teaching people to reload will solve the ammo crisis of there are no supplies available. There is also the corresponding reloading crisis, is there not?

Going fishing sounds like it will resolve the issue just as well. Very good, Ed.

[woad_yurt]

I don't think reloading will ease up anything. Ammo makers would prefer to sell complete ammo, not parts, as they make more money that way. I'm assuming Mag-Tech (or any other manufacturer) would first use any on-hand primers in their own ammo before selling them separately. It seems that they would profit more from selling installed primers rather than loose ones.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Regarding fishing, my brother tells me fishing gear sales is up 200%. With regards to no supplies available, I thought that was obvious, too. People like me, heavy and prolific reloaders, already have large quantities of bullets, primers, powder and brass on hand for ourselves. I was just suggesting that we part with a miniscule, expendable (isn't all ammunition somewhat expendable?) amount of stuff to help out and teach another in the ways of reloading, bullet casting, etc. As stated, sharing just a little, teaching just a little...that's a good thing. And it contributes to "keeping the faith". The more who shoot, reload, compete, or are otherwise into the gun sports makes us stronger, too.

[doubleh]

I agree that teaching people to reload is a good thing but it won't help with the current ammo situation. If you can't find components your in the same boat as the loaded ammo purchasers. In my neck of the woods primers are non existant, bullets are very scarce, and some powders are unavailable. If you do luck into anything the prices are unreal.

[bigione]

Now I've only loaded with a single stage, but double charging will never be a problem for me or those I teach as every round is inspected with a good light for uniformity before bullets are inserted. I highly reccommend that for all reloaders.

[lawboy]

Don't have a solution to the ammo situation but I do agree with Sharpsdressedman, that teaching others to reload and cast bullets is an extremely important and generous thing to do. Patriotic, even. I do it when ever possible. Have made some good friends that way as well. What's not to like?

[Eb1]

all you need to fish is a cane pole, line, hook, sinker, floater, and a worm.

all you need for a gun is bullets, but I can catch way more fish with 1 hook, 1 pole, 1 sinker, 1 floater, and sometimes I can catch more than 1 fish with the same worm.
I can only shoot 1 bullet, 1 time on a given day.

[cleetus03]

DUH!,The ammo crisis will be solved once we all as a whole have a satisfactory personal cache or caches to fend off a Chinese army invasion.

[SaxonPig]

The problem is that reloading components are just as scare and just as expensive. As ammo goes up so goes reloading components.

The ONLY answer to high ammo prices is to correct the short supply. That means conserve and use less until production catches up. Not fun, means doing without enjoying the sport for awhile, but that's the only solution. As long as folks keep buying $30 bricks of Thunderbolt 22s why should prices come down? When they STOP selling the price will fall.

[1858rem]

Smokeless powder doesn't violently explode when it burns. Neither does black powder in the real world.

no offense man, but have you ever seen a lb of REAL black powder go off? I would call it a definant explosion, but not a detonation. and like you said, smokeless just burns pretty fast.



anyhow i think reloading would be a great solution, i have no solid proof, but weren't manufacturers directing most primers and other components toward loaded ammo to try and keep up with demand? dies are pretty tough to come by and prices have skyrocketed but if you are willing to wait on backorder for weeks on end, you will get a setup going soon enough(to those looking into reloading:cool:)

[waterhouse]

With regards to no supplies available, I thought that was obvious, too. People like me, heavy and prolific reloaders, already have large quantities of bullets, primers, powder and brass on hand for ourselves. I was just suggesting that we part with a miniscule, expendable (isn't all ammunition somewhat expendable?) amount of stuff to help out and teach another in the ways of reloading, bullet casting, etc.

Teaching others to reload is generous and good for the sport, but it won't do anything to solve any sort of ammo crisis.

Let's say I am willing to donate a few thousand primers and bullets to teach 20 people how to reload. Now they know how to reload, and they discover that they enjoy it, and that they can save some money doing it.

So they try to reload on their own, but they can't get any components, because there is a huge backlog. So they go back to buying factory made ammo, when they can find it.

If your message is that we should all teach someone how to reload because it is good for the sport, that is great. If there were gobs of primers available your idea might work. But me teaching people how to reload only cuts down on their ammo buying if they are able to reload, and since they can't find primers that won't work.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Just to further my case, one more time. Let's say I have 5000 brass cases for the .45, an equal number of primers, a set of bullet molds, and a small quantity of scrap wheelweights. Now my neighbor shoots .45, but has never reloaded, and is currently having a bad time getting ammo. I say, "Hey, Don. Why don't you come over and I'll show you how to cast." He says, "What?!"" Well, I get him to cast bullets for BOTH of us, on my equipment. Then I trade him brass & primers for a good batch of bullets, worthy of his labor in casting me bullets. He goes and buys a pound of powder (yeah, powder seems to be the most available component; correct me if I'm wrong). Now, together, we load up some ammo. He now has some he never would have been able to buy, is way less interested in wasting his money on high priced/scalped commercial ammo, and takes himself out of the line waiting at Walmart for the next shipment. I get bullets I didn't have time to cast, and share a little brass/primers that should, someday, be back in quantities to share with the rest of the world. Might take, 2-5 years to settle back down, but we have another 4000+, that Don and I can fill with bullets, maybe 8-10 times since the .45 is not a high pressure round. Now we'll keep filling the brass I shared with Don as he shoots them, or we'll find another way for Don to compensate me for the hard-to-get components that I share with him during the "crisis", for want of a better word. My stocks of .45 ammo increase, because I am being a little more thrifty and shooting .22's more, and other cheaper, available calibers in the interim. Oh, and did I tell you, Don bought his own press outfit, and is enjoying the hell out of it. He shoots his .308 more, because he now casts bullets for .30 cal for both of us, and we shoot reduced .30 loads for .308 & .30-06 on the back 40. Not as much noise or danger of ricochet, etc, and for pennies to the shot. Fellas, look at the overall picture, and see how it can benefit many aspects in the long run.

[CCWB]

I reload because I can't get factory ammo. But I shoot 10 rounds a few times a week instead of 100 a Saturday at the range.

I have a thousand rounds I got on a good deal, but I still have an array of calibers I rotate with.

I got a press for therapy.

I spend just as much time making and shooting than I did when I was just shooting.