Davy Crockett's rifle in the Alamo?


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Brian Williams
May 24, 2009, 01:09 AM
I was just recently at the Alamo and while I was there I saw in their display case a gun supposedly owned IIRC by Davy Crocket, it was a nice little gun about 4' long and about .36 caliber, is there a modern reproduction out there.
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs097.snc1/4723_77363977561_668032561_1828520_2675359_n.jpg

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Old Fuff
May 24, 2009, 01:22 AM
Check out Dixie Gun Works (www.dixiegunworks.com)

They have parts, plans, kits and guns to make almost anything you want. A 700-page catalog with all kinds of information still costs what it did during the 1950's

$5.00 post paid - but they do take contributions. ;)

Voodoochile
May 24, 2009, 08:17 AM
That one is percussion lock & if I'm not mistaken they were all using flintlock firearms in the 1830's.

jimmyraythomason
May 24, 2009, 08:52 AM
Do they now allow photos to be taken inside the Alamo? I've been twice and photos weren't allowed.

MCgunner
May 24, 2009, 09:06 AM
Cell phone cameras don't have flashes, or at least mine doesn't. :D By the shadows, I'd say there was no flash used.

LOCK HIM UP, HE BROKE DA LAW! :D

4v50 Gary
May 24, 2009, 09:26 AM
Who's to say where Davy Crockett's gun went? According to one story, he wielded like a club and broke the stock fighting the Messicans.

BTW, his first rifle is still around and is displayed at the Eastern Tennessee Historical Society in Knoxville. It was restored by one of my teachers, Hershel House. Crockett traded it for land and a cabin so he could have a place for his first bride. It remained in the family's hands (that is, the family that got the gun for the house) until donated to the historical society.

I think Hershel drew plans of it and Dixie Gun Works may have those plans. If you really want, you can get a gun builder to build a rifle according to those plans.

jimmyraythomason
May 24, 2009, 09:39 AM
Ain't technology grand? 4v50 Gary,is that Ol' Betsy that shot "persactly" where he aimed that is at the ETHS? BTW,I touched the walls of the room where Jim Bowie died so I broke the rules as well.

4v50 Gary
May 24, 2009, 09:49 AM
jimmy - I don't know the name of the gun. Being a mortal, I just slobbered over the case and onto the floor.

MCgunner
May 24, 2009, 10:03 AM
I don't think ol' betsy was a .36, doubt it anyway as he was a bear hunter and I'd always thought of ol' betsy as in a bear appropriate caliber. Maybe he head shot dem bars, though?

4v50 Gary
May 24, 2009, 10:23 AM
They saw their guns like we see screwdrivers. They're tools to be used and not religious icons to be placed in a display case for worship. That said, Davy Crockett owned numerous rifles and if one wore out, he did what other people did. Take it to a gunsmith to have it rebored or swap for a fresh rifle. The gunsmith would then rebore the rifle and sell it to the next customer who came along. We don't know what Daniel Boone's famous Ticklicker looked like either. So much history has been lost because no one thought these trivial details were important.

Brian Williams
May 24, 2009, 10:57 AM
I have sinned, it was with a nice Nikon DSLR and no flash held at waist level. I am not sure who's rifle it was, but it was a sweet little thing. Not as long as a Pennsylvania rifle but would work very well as a squirrel rifle around Lancaster county.

BHP FAN
May 24, 2009, 12:15 PM
good gun for Stobor.

4v50 Gary
May 24, 2009, 02:49 PM
Come to think of it, the best place to ask is at the Alamo. Write them and ask for its provenance. It may well have been Davy's rifle, but remember, he was given a percussion rifle which he did not take with him to Texas.

Hawkeye748
May 24, 2009, 04:45 PM
The Alamo web site states:

Many people want to know what happened to Bowie’s knife, Crockett’s rifle, and other items that belonged to the garrison. These items met the same fate of all objects left on a battlefield. Some were picked up as souvenirs; some were discarded because they were broken; some were placed back into service by the victors. Thus, the possessions of the men of the Alamo disappeared from history

I was at the Alamo a few years ago. It seems I recall that the rifle on display is the one given to him by some PA Whig party members before he left for Texas. It was a percussion, as that was around the time percussion weapons were becoming the norm. [The Percussion cap was patented in 1822 but developed, some claim, as early as 1814.] If my memory serves me, (so don't bet on this:confused:) the rifle on display was donated by a family that owned it for many years. It had been left by Crocket in Arkansas with friends because it was "too pretty" for the wilds of Texas.

JohnKSa
May 24, 2009, 04:56 PM
We were there last year. I don't remember as many details as Hawkeye748, but that's the gist of it.

The rifle on display IS one that Crockett had owned (I do recall that it was a present but can't remember who gave it to him) but it obviously wasn't the one he had at the Alamo.

Looks like this is a generally similar rifle although without some of the embellishments.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=12451
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/PR0642.JPG

GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL
May 24, 2009, 05:12 PM
Ya'll can still go to the Alamo? A bunch of Norte Americano susio gringos trespassing on what the fine, noble Mexican race consider's to be hallowed ground? I'm surprised that they even let ya'll into the state of Texas period. I know they won't let you into ********** (although I can't see why anyone in their right mind would want to go to ********** anyway) and probably this time next year there won't be enough '47's and '58's in the whole country to get you inside of Arizona..(hee hee)..Great White Hunter....

saltydog452
May 25, 2009, 11:47 AM
MCg, David grinned them bears to death.

salty

SWC Bonfire
May 26, 2009, 10:39 AM
Just to add to what was said here, Crockett most likely left a "fancy" percussion rifle behind because there were no sources of percussion caps in Texas at the time. To give you an idea of the timeframe, Colt patented his revolver before the Alamo fell. Took years to get to Texas in the form of a purchase by the Texian Navy. These revolvers found their way into the hands of the Texas Rangers after Sam Houston disbanded the Navy a few years later.

The .36 caliber was fairly typical of the rifles used by Texians in the war for Texas Independence... "squirrel" rifles were much more common than any large caliber weapon. Texas was mostly settled by men from Tennessee, Missouri, Louisiana and Alabama, and many of them had rifles for shooting small game vs. large game.

The book Texian Illiad actually references the weapons used in the revolution quite thoroughly for a general history book, with numerous extremely detailed illustrations and a nice sequence of the loading of a brown bess musket used by the Mexicans. They had a great deal of napoleonic-era British surplus, including squads with Baker rifles that were very capable. The Texians used whatever weapons they had, which were mainly small game rifles and a few muskets and shotguns. There are several accounts where Texians dumped the horrible mexican powder out of paper cartridges and melted down the balls to fit their smaller rifles. The Texians had a decided advantage with the use of DuPont powder over the Mexicans, which had to double-charge their muskets with sorry powder of their own manufacture.

xXxplosive
May 28, 2009, 11:51 AM
Do you know haw many Daniel Boone guns there are out there ?
I have many friends who produce muzzleloading crafts and guns, some of which they have seen hanging in museums themselves much to their surprise.
This is probably a gun someone donated down through the years..a true expert could investigate the builder and know if it even existed in 1830 ?

zocolo
May 28, 2009, 01:29 PM
Hi-- i have a franklin mint
issue of the the gun that was given to him in nashville tn.it has a mounting backboard with it. Call me 615-509-5781 george IT WAS MADE IN .41 CAL

Hawkeye748
May 28, 2009, 05:34 PM
I think they were pretty sure of the origin of the gun on display. I believe that there were some authenticated letters as well as other supporting information.

That being said, I have seen a Musket I rebuilt from parts on sale as an origninal. It even had my and my friend's cartouche on it. I told the guy I had built most of the gun. He claimed he bought it off an estate sale. That the family claimed it had been in the attic for more than 50 years. No matter what I said, he claimed I was a liar. He tried to get me thrown out of the show.

I called my friend who had bought it off me found the gun had been stolen several months earlier. The seller had to explain everything to a police detective a short while later. :uhoh: :DNice to know I turn out a good enough product to fool an "expert".:rolleyes:

Strange what folks will try and get away with.

mykeal
May 28, 2009, 07:51 PM
Strange what folks will try and get away with.

There are organizations which require people participating in their events remove all traces of manufacturer's marks and other identifying features so as to make the items appear to be as authentic as possible. They claim this practice is not only legal but ethical, as they (as an organization) intend only to deceive rather than defraud anyone, and they make no claims as an organization. Whether or not others may then use those items in a fraudulent way is not their concern.

scrat
May 28, 2009, 09:34 PM
Only problem is with going to the ALAMO is we are about 180 years too late. Sorry Davey. I would have been there with my, Walker, my 1851,s, my 30-30. Maybe a 1919a6 and about 20,000 rounds of ammo

Brian Williams
May 29, 2009, 11:35 AM
Just an addition that the rifle that JohnKSa shows is a half stock where the one in the case was a full stock much like this one
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/PR0814.gif
I am not sure which I like better the half stock or the full one.

DuncanSA
May 29, 2009, 12:08 PM
OK - I give up. What is a "Stobor"?

arcticap
May 29, 2009, 01:13 PM
OK - I give up. What is a "Stobor"?

:neener:

Stobors were wild predators that lived on Haruun Kal....the homeworld of the famed Jedi Master Mace Windu.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stobor

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Haruun_Kal

Hawkeye748
May 29, 2009, 01:19 PM
Mykeal said:

There are organizations which require people participating in their events remove all traces of manufacturer's marks and other identifying features so as to make the items appear to be as authentic as possible.

I looked at the law and think that what they are doing is illegal. A aggressive prosecutor could make a case against the folks removing the MFG. marks, particularly if they are imports. Those removing the Italian proofs, MFG's names, etc. better be careful, particularly with this new administration. I read the law as those are required import marks for firearms, not covered with the Antique Firearms exemptions. Their whole defense will rely on a judge's interpretation of those provisions. My question to them is: Do you really want to risk freedom and many $$$$$ to hide something you cannot see or read unless you are 2 feet away.

With the RICO laws, any organization that advocates its members violating the law might face serious trouble. I don't think they would try to stretch them that far but who knows.

If they move the maker's name to a spot that is not externally visable, they would probably be okay.

mec
May 29, 2009, 02:24 PM
That rifle has been at the Alamo for a long time along with an ordinary hunting knife that was supposed to be crockett's. at one time, the card with the rifle said that it had belonged to crockett but that a subsequent owner had converted it to percussion in the 1880s.

The Fowler Bowie is also in the alamo. It was presented to a Captain Fowler of the United states mounted rifles in the 1830s. He carried it until his death in 1843. Like the other early Bowies, this one was patterned after a spanish hunting knife. the hand guard was supposedly added after somebody ruined his fingers on an earlier type that looked pretty much like a butcher knife.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=99010&stc=1&d=1243621329
Searles was based in New Orleans and was one of the Bowie Brother's favorite knife makers.

Oro
May 29, 2009, 02:41 PM
OK - I give up. What is a "Stobor"?

That used to bother me in his sig line, too. I looked it up a year ago. It is from Heinlein. It is a metaphor for imagined danger (it's also robots spelled backwards, so read into that what you will).

I'm telling you, Skynet is for real. It is going to get us all...

The StarWars reference noted above is a reference to the original Heinlein, not the origin of the term.

send2r
July 8, 2009, 11:04 PM
i dont know if he used this at the alamo or not , but...




http://www.caywoodguns.com/davy_crockett_replica.htm

reverendfranz
July 9, 2009, 05:06 AM
nevermind

Gadzooks Mike
July 10, 2009, 04:00 PM
So was John Wayne's coonskin cap still there? The one he wore in the movie used to be in a glass case at the Alamo back in the 70's. Guy had a rather large head or that was one poofed out coon having a big hair day.

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