[The_Shootist]

Yeah, I'm no pro at digital photography. but hopefully these shoots of Federal's "re-introduced" Nyclad give you a rough idea of what to expect.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/The_Shootist/N4.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/The_Shootist/N5.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/The_Shootist/N3.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/The_Shootist/N2.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/The_Shootist/N1.jpg


Bought it Wednesday night last from Ammo-to-Go (for an outrageous price but I wanted to test fire some of it) and it arrived on Friday afternoon. :what:

[ArchAngelCD]

Are you sure those are the "new" Nylcad's? From everything I've read the new stuff is being shipped in 20 round boxes. Even if it isn't there's nothing wrong with old stock because they were GREAT ammo to shoot. Extremely accurate IMO.

[cocojo]

Those are the new nyclads. The box is for LE purchases, nothing fancy but 50 round boxes. Civilian purchase is a pretty colorfull 20 round box for almost the same money. I paid $29.00 for 50 rounds when the 20 round box was $21.00, same stuff. By the way this is not leftover ammo. I have boxes of the last issued nyclads and the hollow point on these is deeper and bigger and my rounds are deeper blue.

[Hungry Seagull]

I must resist the color of blue, it is drawing my wallet out.

What good is this here Nyclad? Is it equal to or better than my Speer Gold Dots?

[ArchAngelCD]

Hungry Seagull,
Both the new and old Nyclad ammo was/is very good for older revolvers not rated for +P pressures. The lead used is soft so it will reliable expand at lower velocities associated with standard pressure .38 Special rounds in a short barrel. It's not meant to replace anything marked +P, it's good ammo for standard pressure rated .38 Special revolvers.

I have several boxes of the old Nyclad ammo and it's the most accurate .38 Special ammo I've ever shot. It's great for use in my 1975 M36.

[David E]

I wonder how long it'll be before a cop on TV finds these and ID's them for millions of people as "Teflon coated Cop-killer bullets that'll go thru a vest..."

"COPS" did that with Glaser's, which ironically don't penetrate much at all.

.

[nicholst55]

"COPS" did that with Glaser's, which ironically don't penetrate much at all.

The BLUE TIP Glasers don't penetrate much at all; the BLACK TIP Glasers are a totally different matter.

[Kurt]

Fancy

But for serious moments I'd still like a cutting shoulder (WC/SWC) on anything exiting my snubby .38's.

;)

[EMC45]

These have a bigger HP and look darker than the older ones.

[Coltdriver]

The originals were dead soft lead and they deformed nicely. There is a former police officer on the board who heartily recommends them.

Are there any other rounds besides .38?

[EMC45]

Wasn't the Treasury Load a 158gr. SWCHP made form dead soft lead? I think that would be a keeper for the old J Frame!

[ArchAngelCD]

No one is going to call Nyclad ammo cop killer bullets. They were cop bullets in the past and were highly regarded. Besides, the Black Talons from Winchester already hold the title of "Evil Cop Killing Bullets"!!

[andre73]

Hey guys - I did a water expansion test on this round. Here is the video.

Nyclad Ammo Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJcbKVesjc4)

Andre'

[The_Shootist]

Looks like that kool-aid jug didn't stand a chance.

But in the water - they fragmented?

[andre73]

Yep - but the chunks were pretty big.

[Tristan61]

I wonder if they would frag from a snubby?

- Tristan

[andre73]

I have a .38 snubbie, i'll try it for our next testing session.

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks for taking the time to do the test and post the link to your test.

[andre73]

My buddy and I tested 57 loads last week. We had lots of fun and learned a bit too. I just finally finished posting the last of the loads. Anyone intrested in other loads can see my main page, click see all at the bottom and they will pop up. Water expansion tests (http://www.youtube.com/andreleger2001)

[Kind of Blued]

Is anybody so worried about +P pressures in an older revolver that they'll prefer standard pressure .38s?

My view is that if I have to fire 2-3 rounds to save my life, the gun isn't inevitably going to blow up in my face. If the gun holds enough sentimental value that shooting even one +P round worries me, I wouldn't be carrying the gun in the first place.

I understand that some people simply prefer less recoil, but I'd be interested in hearing a rebuttal hinged upon reasoning otherwise.

[anyheck]

Local New Orleans sportscaster-cum-wife-killer Vince Marinello used classic Nyclads to murder his wife in 2006.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/family/vince_marinello/Vince-Marinello(3)200.jpg

His conviction was sealed up by testimony of him buying the Nyclads and then forensic evidence of this being the type of bullet used on his wife. Well, that and his 'to-do' list: Among the items on the list were reminders to buy a disguise, buy bullets, have a gun test-fired, and dispose of the gun. And, as if to make things even easier for investigators to draw their conclusions, on the back of the checklist was a hand-drawn map of the parking lot where Liz Marinello was ambushed.

The crime is too poorly executed for me to try to describe so have a read for yourself:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/vince_marinello/1_index.html

(Nyclads are mentioned on page 6)

[sgt127]

The only thing that bothers me is the energy...at the muzzle its 191....Thats not very impressive...at all...

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=828

I mean...Federal 380 ball is hitting 203 FP.

I would be seriously concerned that it couldn't get deep enough into a really buffed up, or fat, predator to shut him off...

[ArchAngelCD]

I mean...Federal 380 ball is hitting 203 FP.
But do you really want to use a 95gr FMJ bullet for SD?

Don't get too hung up in velocity and reported muzzle energy. Concentrate on shot placement and the bullet will do the job it was intended to do, and do it well. Nyclad ammo was carried by a lot of LEO's in it's day and it was VERY WELL liked. I don't know anyone who could figure out why Federal stopped making them and not a range trip went by where someone shooting a .38 Special didn't mention Nyclad ammo. It's a good standard pressure .38 Special round and I'm glad it's back. (although the price is too high)

[Howard B]

My department (750 sworn) actually issued the nyclad for many years as ammo for those that qualified with a 38 as a second weapon. I still have some left from the days of S&W ammo boxes. They were/are well thought of, but I can't relate any actual in the field results.

[Hungry Seagull]

Only 200 pounds of energy? That aint much more than what a steel worker can lay into your glass jaw with a fist.

Where are we getting these small numbers?

[sgt127]

But do you really want to use a 95gr FMJ bullet for SD?

Maybe. At least it has a reasonable chance of hitting the vitals. The current Nyclad appears to be a dead soft bullet, at low velocity, that expands with the slightest provocation and then, breaks up into alot of little pieces. All of those things sound like its not going to penetrate well at all. It appears that round might produce a very nasty, though shallow, wound.

[golden]

At one time, the 125 grain NYCLAD HP was referred to as the CHIEF SPECIAL load because it was very popular with those that carried the small 5 shot revolvers.
It was probably the ONLY non +P load that would exand effectively at the time. I still have a box and keep them for carry in my j frames.

If you touch off one of the hard shouldered 158 grain Lead HP +P loads in a J frame, you may never want to do it again. I gave up on a COLT Cobra (second model) because it was just too painful to shoot with wooden grips and rubber ones are only being made for the new model (third generation) guns.

I would rather hit well with the NYCLAD, than miss or hit off center with a +P.
In a 14 ounce gun, it is a challenge.

Jim

[ArchAngelCD]

sgt127,
Those Nyclad rounds aren't new, they are newly re-released. They are time tested and proven to be reliable. You can't use bench data alone to determine if a round will be effective, real world data counts more. The softer lead is used to insure reliable expansion at the lower velocities they are normally shot. Like I said, they aren't a +P replacement, they are a standard pressure round for older revolvers and for those who are recoil sensitive.

[doc540]

"You can't use bench data alone to determine if a round will be effective, real world data counts more."

Please post a link to this "real world data".

Thanks

[KBintheSLC]

I bought a box of these and am not impressed with anything but their looks. They are light, slow and weak... 125g at barely over 800 fps and 190 lb/ft E... and the expansion performance through heavy fabric is very poor. I am going to use mine as range fodder, but carry them I will not.

I am not a big fan of +P in my J-frame, but even in standard pressure levels, they should be able to do more.

[ArchAngelCD]

Please post a link to this "real world data".
Oh come on, that data is from years ago, I can't remember where I read it. I think it was from the FBI but I'm not sure. I'll turn the tables slightly, post a data source showing Nyclad ammo doesn't work. If it didn't work well Police Departments all over the country wouldn't have used it so long.

I have no stake in ATK or Federal ammo so I really don't care what you believe. I just find it offensive when people who never shot Nyclad ammo or don't even carry a .38 Special bash a time tested caliber just because they think the numbers don't add up. I for one wouldn't want to be standing in front of a .38 Special when that terrible Nyclad ammo was being fired.

[doc540]

fwiw: I only carry .38's and currently own four of them.

But to each his own. You're welcome to get offended if you so choose.

I'm looking at hard data that proves they don't expand and do overpenetrate when shot through denim fabric.

Then I'm comparing hard data of both former and current ballistics.

I just don't like what I see enough to switch from Speer Gold Dots and CorBon DPX in my personal defense and carry guns.

Both myself and my guns can handle a few rounds with additional recoil when it's a fact they're superior self defense loads; superior in velocity, energy, expansion, and controlled penetration.

Facts is facts.

Hopes and perceptions can become risks.

[andre73]

OK! i'll settle this and preform the water expansion test again this time shooting through denim. I'll post the results in this thread. It may take me a while to get back to my friend's house to test it, but I will make it a point to shoot through fabric with this round.

[ArchAngelCD]

I just don't like what I see enough to switch from Speer Gold Dots and CorBon DPX in my personal defense and carry guns.
Like I've already said twice in this thread, the standard pressure Nyclad ammo isn't meant to replace your +P ammo. It's meant to be used in revolvers that aren't rated for +P pressures. (like I said in previous posts) I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested they were a substitute for +P ammo or did I miss something. I know I never said it...

I specifically said, "I have several boxes of the old Nyclad ammo and it's the most accurate .38 Special ammo I've ever shot. It's great for use in my 1975 M36." I carry Remington R38S12 ammo in my M642, the old "FBI Load" which is +P.

[jad0110]

Like I've already said twice in this thread, the standard pressure Nyclad ammo isn't meant to replace your +P ammo. It's meant to be used in revolvers that aren't rated for +P pressures. (like I said in previous posts) I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested they were a substitute for +P ammo or did I miss something. I know I never said it...

Yep, if you got a classic Colt Detective Special (one of the older ones not rated for +P), then these Nyclads are an excellent choice. And IIRC, they do in fact meet the FBI's 12" minimum penetration depth, if barely.

Then again, if you are concerned about insufficient penetration in a standard pressure load, it is hard to go wrong with a wadcutter, full WC recommended.

[Gary A]

I am also pleased at the reintroduction of the 125 grain Nyclad. I am curious because the website is not clear (or wasn't the last I looked) about the barrel length used for the nominal numbers. The original 125 grain standard pressure Nyclad (of which I have a pretty good supply) produced approximately 830 fps +/- from a 1 7/8 inch J-frame barrel. Years ago I chronographed the load myself and got numbers in the lower to mid 800's. Compared to the generally sub 900 fps from most 125 grain +P loads from the same barrel length, it stacked up pretty well and generally ran a bit faster than most 125 grain standard loads at the time. If the current Nyclad gets 830 fps from 4 inch barrel, it it pretty weak. If it gets it from a 2 inch barrel, I think that's not bad.

Btw, during that time I also fired the round into well-soaked newsprint and into mud, certainly not scientific. It penetrated and expanded as advertised and expanded pretty well shooting through denim also, as I remember.

Here are a few tested 125 Nyclad velocities from short barrels that I have found in various articles, all of course referring to the original version. Only one item is significantly below 800 fps and most are in the ballpark to what was claimed for the round from the snubby barrel and close to what I measured for myself.

FED 125 NYCLAD – 826

FED 125 NYCLAD – 835 (2.13”)

FED 125 NYCLAD – 867

FED 125 NYCLAD – 790

FED 125 NYCLAD – 754

FED. NYCLAD 125-GRAIN: 841 FPS

I agree it is not intended to replace plus P rounds but to provide a credible standard pressure alternative, which I think it does, at least in its original incarnation. I would certainly prefer it to .380 acp, personally. I'd like to test the new version one day. As for my current supply of Nyclads, I intend to use them up, if not wear them out, but slowly and make them do.

[andre73]

Ok as promised I did a few tests on the Nyclads.

Nyclad expansion from a snub (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kazXIGAzooU)

I have another one I am working on now that we shot through denim.

[ArchAngelCD]

andre73,
Thanks again for posting the results of your tests. It looks like the Nyclad bullet holds together much better when faced with the lower velocities associated with a short barrel revolver.

[jglcolosprgs]

In the interest of full disclosure I don't do Nyclads, I use Gold Dots (mostly due to availability) but here are the first three reviews I found.


http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/38spl/fed38spl-125nhp-swm60.htm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs12.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

I don't have a dog in this fight and these were just the first three reviews I could find. I also didn't spend much time looking over them for results either.

YMMV

[uh-oh]

Andre, That's an awesome facetube page you've got.
I was able to purchase several of the 50-round boxes of new Nyclad about four months back and at the time they were a good deal. I shot them out of a 6" Python and didn't "feel" them to be any less powerful than standard .38 spl. They do make great holes in paper. They are very accurate and clean. The nylon coating allows higher velocities without the leading. Maybe Fed. will come out with component bullets?

[andre73]

Thanks! - Im still working on uploading all the tests we did last weekend. It will probably take me all weekend to finish. We tested almost 60 diff rounds. :D

[outerlimit]

They should have re-introduced the heavier nyclads. 125gr. at standard .38spl snub velocities shouldn't excite anyone.

[ArchAngelCD]

They should have re-introduced the heavier nyclads. 125gr. at standard .38spl snub velocities shouldn't excite anyone.
outerlimit,
I'm a big fan of the 158gr bullet for the .38 Special too. I like the additional energy they deliver to the target.

[hinton03]

andre73: Looking at your water test the 230 Grain HST looked to perform well. I have been trying to decide on a 45 ACP SD round and was looking at the GD; I will give the HST a serious look now.

Thanks for the testing.

[andre73]

Yeah the HST did awesome. So did the Ranger-T series. I think those are the top 2 loads currently available. Funny how both of them are 'law enforcement only' ammo by Federal and Winchester with restricted sales. They would not want us civilians to have good ammo...:barf:

[doc540]

A few +P rounds won't destroy a non +P rated .38. If the gun's that weak I wouldn't trust my life with it.

So, why would someone risk their life carrying standard loads when clearly superior SD loads are available?

Help me out here...say, I'm put in the position of defending my life and my family's life, but I've chosen a less-than-superior defense load?

That just makes no common sense to me.

The range is a different story. That's why I practice with standard loads, shoot a few +P's to confirm my compentece with them, then carry the +P's.

What am I missing here?:confused:

[Vonderek]

What am I missing here?
I want to put a box or two through a new gun to make sure it functions well with a particular load and is accurate. Then, I'll practise with range fodder but will run another cylinder or two through the gun of my carry load. That adds up to hundreds of rounds pretty quick. For a non-+P rated J-Frame, that's courting possible mechanical failure eventually. I'll "take my chances" with carrying std. pressure 38 Nyclads, and I feel fine with that.

[Deltaboy]

I am going to buy a box or 2 of them.