Burial Tube


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BigGuy52
May 25, 2009, 12:20 PM
Using a burial tube may one day be necessary.

Does anyone use them right now?

I've looked for them at the usual places such as Cheaperthandirt, only to find like other gun related items are on a major backorder.

Could they be hand made from say, PVC pipe and still be reliable?

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kingpin008
May 25, 2009, 12:26 PM
If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up.

Mp7
May 25, 2009, 12:33 PM
there was a big thread on sum1 doing exactly that.
And he had done it x years ago and made a photo-story
about how well it worked.

iŽd say Mosins and tt33s would be good.

Joe Demko
May 25, 2009, 12:37 PM
Eventually, it might be necessary to do some burying; but it won't be guns. Fight the smart fight now, in the PR and political arenas and it won't be necessary to bury anything.

Wild Bill
May 25, 2009, 12:53 PM
Don't really buy into the concept of a burial tube (at 6' 3" I might need a 45 gallon drum instead ;)), but I have made a couple of handy target holders from 4" and 6" sewer pipe.

Pipe, hacksaw, end cap, screw-in filler cap, pvc glue, and a few minutes on the workbench should give you what you need relatively cheaply.

runrabbitrun
May 25, 2009, 12:55 PM
IMO...
If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up.

But yea, PVC can do the trick as Wild Bill just pointed out.
Cheap too.

Vonderek
May 25, 2009, 01:29 PM
Since we're talking guns I agree with the others as far as if it's necessary to bury 'em it's more necessary to be using them. However, a burial tube may have utility for hiding other non-gun related things like coins, gems, etc. Keep in mind though that if we're ever in a situation where we find a need to bury guns, ammo and gold that they will be easily found with detection equipment.

I knew some people whose father was supposedly an arms dealer operating out of Miami Beach. The story was that after the mother killed the father in his sleep for being unfaithful, the govt. came to his house with backhoes and dug up the place. I didn't believe it until I visited the home. The yard looked like Verdunne--grass grown over craters...a green lunar landscape.

If you're going to bury anything in tubes, bury the tubes vertically and bury metal scrap liberally throughout the area.

mudstud
May 25, 2009, 01:30 PM
I've heard there is a run on PVC sewer pipe and end caps! Better get it now!





OK, this is a joke! :D:D:D:D:D

sherman123
May 25, 2009, 01:35 PM
I'm another one who agrees "if it's time to bury em it's time to dig em' up". However PVC sounds like a good plan(maybe you had some SPARE weapons you wanted to stash for awhile) Whatever the reason, I know from experience that putting it in a plastic ziploc(the kind with the zipper on top) and then putting that ziploc in 3 or 4 other bags should do a good job of protecting it from moisture. I know this from experience I kept everything dry as before I buried it. Moisture never even got through the first bag but having a few was just insurance for me. More of a quick solution than a replacement for pipes.

rcmodel
May 25, 2009, 01:46 PM
Oh Boy!

More stuff for the treasure hunters of the future to hunt for.

When you get old, you forget where you buried stuff!

The metal detector guys are still finding fruit jars of old coins left over from the "post hole banks" of the 1930's bank failure scare.

rc

gbw
May 25, 2009, 01:57 PM
The metal detector guys are still finding fruit jars of old coins left over from the "post hole banks" of the 1930's bank failure scare.

Except it wasn't a scare. Major numbers of banks and related institutions that were thought to be healthy did fail. Was burying jars of gold coins the right strategy? I don't know. I do know it was not irrational.

So does it make sense to prepare to 'long term store' some small quanitity of guns and ammo? Again, I don't know.

I do know I have never seen (I'm 60ish), nor would I have predicted as possible or even likely, events such as we have actually seen the past 1.5 years. So in all honesty I'm less prepared to scoff than I used to be.

Dunkelheit
May 25, 2009, 03:06 PM
Here is a good story

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/wood115.html

Ratshooter
May 25, 2009, 03:07 PM
I think I would rather have a hidden place in my house. Like inside of the walls or a hidden space behind something. I have a couple of spots that would work just fine for that.

The last time I hid something it was a book of stamps. My wife is always "Borrowing" stamps from me. She never pays them back. I hid the stamps in one spot. Then moved them to a better spot. Then I moved them once more to the best spot of all. And forgot where that was.

I was still trying to find those stamps when we moved from that house. I think they were the 29 cent version. They are still hid as far as I know. I ain't gonna bury nuthin'.:banghead:

Ratshooter
May 25, 2009, 03:09 PM
I forgot to add that on the firing line rifle forum is a link to the guy that burried a mini-14 for 15 years IIRC.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13087631/How-to-Bury-a-Gun-and-Ammo

I'm a nice guy. I went and got the link for you.

RP88
May 25, 2009, 03:15 PM
well, if you're going to bury a gun collection, be smart about it; don't choose your yard for all of them. Choose a very, very remote place that does not have to worry about flooding, travelers, and will never, ever be developed. I'm not one for burying them, but if that is something you'd consider, treat it like buried treasure, and put it where only a person with a map can get to it.

Carlos Cabeza
May 25, 2009, 03:42 PM
"Cache It" !!!!

Google it and read the many suggestions and uses for such storage techniques.

One can have a "cache" and it be readily accessible at a moments notice or have the option of long term storage without fear of loss.

mljdeckard
May 25, 2009, 03:48 PM
The mods don't TEOTWAWKI threads, this might get locked, but,

Burying something only makes sense if you have a reliable plan to dig it back up. If the only person who knows where it is is YOU, and then YOU take a dirt nap, it wasn't such a great idea. If you tell other people where it is, then the location is compromised. Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead.

My state has PLENTY of wide open places I could hide something like this where no one else would ever find it.

When you say, "If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up." this makes good sense generally speaking, but it doesn't eliminate the need to say, SPLIT your resources so that they won't be taken by surprise. There is also the legality. If in fact it comes to criminalization and confiscation, it could be argued that if they are no longer in your possession, and no one can prove otherwise, you no longer own them.

IF I were to do such a thing, (and I really don't ever see myself doing it,) I would choose a location remote enough to not be easily targeted in a radius search. It would have to be a place I could easily find again with landmarks, as GPS may not be a reliable resource in the future. I would stash weapons that have shown to be good in long-term storage, (Russian guns and ammo,) pack them in grease, load the guns, ammo, basic cleaning supplies and some dessicant in a 12" PVC pipe with glued endcaps, and bury it to a depth of two meters.

ants
May 25, 2009, 03:50 PM
You also need to bury 2 or 3 'decoy' tubes. When they waterboard you, those are the locations you give.

And never bury them in your own yard. That's the first place they'll look.

rcmodel
May 25, 2009, 05:28 PM
Was burying jars of gold coins the right strategy? I don't know. I do know it was not irrational. I also know a lot of them were never dug up by the rightful owners.

Old age senility? Moved away and forgot them? Sickness & death?

For whatever reason, burying the money didn't turn out well for them or their heirs because people with metal detectors are still finding & digging them up 80+ years later.

rc

Dark Skies
May 25, 2009, 05:51 PM
To answer the original poster's question. For ammo and handguns you might consider the polypropylene tubes that tank sabots are packed in. They're very thick and come with a rubber sealed screw top with a folding carrying handle. I use them for keeping my sandblasting media in. I usually get them off ebay from army surplus outlets.

TAB
May 25, 2009, 08:16 PM
something to think about... a decent metal decetor will find a gun under several feet of soil. so if think thats going to work to hide it, think again.

Carlos Cabeza
May 25, 2009, 08:30 PM
Apparently this isn't the venue for a discussion on the subject of "cacheing".:banghead:

There are NUMEROUS reasons to hide something from somebody. Cacheing is not the only method but can be effective in the right application.

Hiding a "cache" of items may or may not include a firearm and its accoutrements.

As far as WHO I'm hiding WHAT from is NOYB !

A PVC tube buried vertically is a good start.

Acera
May 25, 2009, 10:21 PM
For all you "If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up " guys out there.

Some people might mean bury some of them. I would not bury all my collection, however some that pose a particular interest to the anti-gun establishment is a viable option. Those will probably be "sold at a gun show, and lost money on the deal" type answers for those who ask me to claim and/or register some of the particularly useful types of rifles and handguns.

I will always keep a good complement of self defense weapons around the house, but not all of them.

I would hate to loose everything in one "event".

bigfatdave
May 25, 2009, 10:33 PM
An interesting thought experiment, and a very interesting real-world effort by Charles Wood (the backwoodshome article).
I like the PVC plan, but a buried PVC pipe setting off a metal detector is pretty obvious.
Why not bury your "time capsule" in/with a chunk of scrap metal? Do the PVC and bagging plan, add plenty of desiccant, purge with nitrogen or carbon dioxide, seal it up, and plunk it into a junk metal container, preferably one that appears to be something unpleasant, discouraging tampering. You of course don't want something so nasty-looking that an unwanted finder calls the EPA or Sheriff.
Perhaps a 55 gallon drum labeled as "asbestos waste", and stuffed with industrial scrap and sawdust?
Or re-purpose a pet casket and label it "beloved Fido, faithful companion", adding a large metallic latch and lock to explain the ferrous content?

I would not bury all my collection, however some that pose a particular interest to the anti-gun establishment is a viable option.
If one was burying such things, the older, simpler, more durable ones might be the best candidates. WWI/II relics, old revolvers, non-semi-auto rifles, survival rifles, etc etc.

Hardtarget
May 25, 2009, 11:32 PM
I bought my home in '73 from Mr. Johnson. The last time I saw him...about '75, he told me he had hidden some money in the house...but he never could find it. If i found it, give him a call. I never looked for it but I'm sure it isn't in this house. My bet is his grandson found it long before I came around.

So if you hide stuff in your house...don't forget where!

I shot with a gun club here in Nashville. One of the guys came in and we noticed this concerned look on his face. Seems he hid a gun...in his house...and could not locate it! He found all but this one gun, knew it was somewhere in the house, just couldn't lay hand on it!

So, if you hide stuff....:D

Lets just not let them get us to that point!

Mark

hogmanahoo.com
May 25, 2009, 11:57 PM
for a cheaper tube that never rusts try a 6 to 14 in dia pvc pipe with caps,cheaper undetectable and waterproof

neverjeg
May 26, 2009, 12:04 AM
Seal them up, put them in faux heat/air conduit and set it in the attic.

I might consider doing it with mine, but I loaned them to the guy who's boat sunk.

danprkr
May 26, 2009, 12:11 AM
neverjeg

Good one. I like it. +1 for originality.

jcwit
May 26, 2009, 07:24 AM
for a cheaper tube that never rusts try a 6 to 14 in dia pvc pipe with caps,cheaper undetectable and waterproof

Till you put something metal in it its undetectable, after that it is. Just what are you folks afraid of anyway, or is this just an excerise in excitement.

gbw
May 26, 2009, 09:41 AM
I also know a lot of them were never dug up by the rightful owners.

Old age senility? Moved away and forgot them? Sickness & death?

For whatever reason, burying the money didn't turn out well for them or their heirs because people with metal detectors are still finding & digging them up 80+ years later.

rc

What's a lot? It's impossible to know how many times it did turn out well, so that argument may not be too good. Second, none of that goes to the fact that the money actually was safer buried than in it would have been in many of the banks back then. That's why it wasn't irrational. If it gave them peace of mind to bury it, does that make it a bad idea? Not for me to say. My own guess is that some of it was never recovered simply because it was never really needed again. In hindsight the buriers were the ones with foresight back then. Seems likely they made other preparations as well.

As well, I never said anything about burying, just 'long term storage'. Personally I would not bury anything, as has been pointed out it is unreliable.

And you do gotta admit, these is very very strange times in which we is alivin'. If you predicted and then acted on 10% of the things we've seen recently, you are a very very rich man.

scotjute
May 26, 2009, 12:54 PM
Your average metal detector should be able to locate a coin down to about 12". After that detection becomes unreliable unless there is a larger mass than a coin.

runrabbitrun
May 26, 2009, 12:59 PM
I can't remember the range of the unit I was issued
in the military to sweep for mines was, but I'm sure
people could effectivly bury guns and not have them detected.

I won't go into detail how, other than to say
some of what's been proposed so far could do the trick. :cool:

winston smith
May 26, 2009, 02:22 PM
Its harder to detect stainless steel, aluminium and plastic than ordinary steel.

Good thing the ATF is after Cav Arms, who's plastic AR 15 lowers are available at Brownell's.

Maybe they better ban all those makers of SS barrels.

And underground power lines.


...;)

rbernie
May 26, 2009, 02:24 PM
Gang - this thread is about caching tips and techniques. I'm getting really tired of deleting the eggregious tinfoilhattery posts and obvious thread veers.

Either contribute to the OPs thread, or pass it by. Making off-topic comments is simply not nice, and I'm not likely going to react well to them for much longer.

bigione
May 26, 2009, 02:34 PM
If you have the option, bury them in a fence line. Steel posts and barbed wire confuse the metal detectors. A broken off stell post above the cache makes another decoy.

theotherwaldo
May 26, 2009, 02:51 PM
The last place that I cached had a generous helping of logging cable, road-building debris, mining debris and tailings, bits of wrecked bridges, re-bar, and other detector distracters. Admittedly, I buried no guns, just supplies that I might need if I was caught out in bad conditions in a place that I visited often. Still, the tools, canned goods, and such would have made a good target - except for the scrap that littered the area.

I'm sure that you all know of similar places... .

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 26, 2009, 03:06 PM
Decoy tubes, oh brother.

Another vote here for:

If it's time to bury them, it's time to dig them up.

Only technique I'll mention is that, if you're gonna do it, it had better be waterproof, so use of a silicon gel to seal the end caps are in order, and some dessicant inside.

rondog
May 26, 2009, 05:33 PM
Keep in mind that a long tube buried vertically may be very hard to get back out of the ground, without digging really deep all around it.

I'm not paranoid enough (yet) to bury things, but I DO think about hiding things in the interior walls of my house. Guns, ammo, and gold/silver coins would be very easy to cover up with sheetrock, easy to recover too.

A small slot cut in the drywall behind a shelf or picture can turn the space between two wall studs into a GIANT piggybank for dropping gold coins or silver rounds into, I wouldn't bother with cash. Many thousands of rounds of boxed ammo can be stacked inside a wall. I'd seal them in plastic first. Same with rifles.

Pistols sealed in plastic bags can be stashed behind drywall too. Build a shelf between the studs, place the bagged pistol(s) with mags and ammo on the shelf, cover with drywall and paint. When you need it, smash the drywall with your elbow, and there it all is. A good way to hide a pistol & ammo in a closet or safe room.

Dark Skies
May 26, 2009, 05:39 PM
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow - silicon gel is probably a bad idea (by 1000% :) ) because they often use acetic acid in their curing .

Better - Sikaflex 221 sealant. It's used as both an adhesive and a sealant in the boating / auto industry. Best to smear it around the outside of the joint rather than the inside else you'll struggle to get the top off again.

SquirrelNuts
May 26, 2009, 06:33 PM
Ball bearings, washers, or other simple metal objects can be scattered around the property to throw off metal detectors. This has been done on civil war battlefields to keep collectors from doing some 2:00 AM searching.

FiREhAwk
May 26, 2009, 08:49 PM
I have thought about buying some mosins or pre-obama priced sks's with gobs of cosmoline and some heavy plastic. I do not think pvc is necessary unless you want to disassemble or add other supplies with it. Vacuum seal the plastic with the rifle covered in cosmoline, maybe add some Silicate and double layer. Like has been said "when its time to bury them...." and I am young and semi-nomadic so it just seems like a cool idea, not very practical.

rondog
May 26, 2009, 09:07 PM
I have thought about buying some mosins or pre-obama priced sks's with gobs of cosmoline and some heavy plastic. I do not think pvc is necessary unless you want to disassemble or add other supplies with it. Vacuum seal the plastic with the rifle covered in cosmoline, maybe add some Silicate and double layer. Like has been said "when its time to bury them...." and I am young and semi-nomadic so it just seems like a cool idea, not very practical.

Eh, have you ever cleaned up an old rifle coated with cosmo? It can be a time-consuming chore. And when you NEED a rifle bad enough to dig it up, you need it QUICKLY.

yakkingallover
May 26, 2009, 11:32 PM
This is the first caching thread I have ever replied to even though I have always read them with great interest. My thoughts on a few things discussed in this thread are
1. To those who say if it is time to bury them it's time to dig them up, I agree except that if I am at home with my new wife and possibly the children we plan to have and someone came knocking I would hand over everything in the house before I jeopardized my families safety. Then I would re-claim my liberator from it's slumber and go get my guns back. 2. In addition to mil-surp rifles I would consider a cheap shotgun, with several types of shot for everything from small game hunting to defense and offense, keeping cost potentially under $200 for the hole setup.
3. A food saver is invaluable and just plain cool for stuff like this...

TAB
May 27, 2009, 05:00 AM
Ball bearings, washers, or other simple metal objects can be scattered around the property to throw off metal detectors. This has been done on civil war battlefields to keep collectors from doing some 2:00 AM searching.


a good metal dector( and some one trained in how to use it) can tell the diffrence between those items and a gun in the ground.

ccsniper
May 27, 2009, 05:11 AM
i was thinking of selling or trying to sell some single barreled shotguns stuffed in a pvc tube with a small fishing kit, first aid kit, and cleaning kit, maybe also a small knife that would be made for burial/survival. dont know if it woulda worked but i know someone woulda bought it. thought it woulda been a good boat, truck, camping kit. i might start a thread for it.

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