NIB no FFL? nevermind that is impossible...


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PT1911
May 25, 2009, 01:44 PM
Why do I see so many posts on guns for sale, NIB never fired.:banghead::banghead::banghead:.. I see them here, in local papers, on gunbroker....etc... do people not realize that it is impossible for a non-FFL to sell a NIB gun? Everything else is LNIB... somewhat like saying your car outside is NEW because it is a 2009. Nevermind that it is a used car the moment you sign the papers. Same goes with guns... the moment you get your receipt, the gun is used....

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yongxingfreesty
May 25, 2009, 01:52 PM
wrong, i've got a few guns purchased, never shot and they are considered NEW

bobotech
May 25, 2009, 01:54 PM
Of course its preowned but its still new in box because say its never been taken out of the box or handled?

NIB just means that, its new in box. It still can be preowned.

PT1911
May 25, 2009, 01:54 PM
that makes no difference... it is simply LNIB never fired... once it is purchased it is a used gun... there is no way around that.

in your opinion.. at what point does a new gun that is never fired become a used gun?

raskolnikov_22
May 25, 2009, 01:55 PM
Even the dealer purchased it, and then handled it in the shop to check and record the serial number.

kingpin008
May 25, 2009, 01:56 PM
Sorry, but if I buy a gun from a FFL, and never, ever fire it, that sucker is NIB. It may be "pre-owned", but it ain't used.

By your logic, if I go to the supermarket and buy a jar of peanut butter, and then sell it or give it away to a friend without ever breaking the safety seal, that jar of peanut butter has been used. How in the world does that make sense, when all I've done is bought it and transported it home? All the peanut butter is still there, in it's original state, with the original factory sealing and packaging.


In short - Lighten up, Francis.

Noxx
May 25, 2009, 01:57 PM
In short - Lighten up, Francis.

D***t, keyboard!

You also owe me a new coffee.

PT1911
May 25, 2009, 02:00 PM
The difference between a gun and a car is...you don't have to drive the gun home after you buy it.

So it is a new car if you have it brought to your home on a truck?
how about the fact that every gun is test fired from the factory, thus even a new gun has been fired. I am sorry... the moment you walk out of the store you have a used gun. it has been purchased and it has been fired even if you personally have not fired it. When a gun is finished at the manufacturer prior to test fire is the only time it is reallly unfired. The only thing making it new is that it has not been sold through a retailer (written in their books and taken out of their books.)

SaxonPig
May 25, 2009, 02:01 PM
Really, don't we have bigger things to worry about?

It could be argued that any gun test fired isn't new.

It could be argued that if the box is opened it isn't new.

I guess once a "new' gun is sold, it is no longer "new" even if unfired, uncarried or unused in any way.

But... really... don't we have bigger things to worry about?

kingpin008
May 25, 2009, 02:02 PM
how about the fact that every gun is test fired from the factory, thus even a new gun has been fired. I am sorry... the moment you walk out of the store you have a used gun. it has been purchased and it has been fired even if you personally have not fired it.

If that's the case, shouldn't your beef be with the FFL dealers who are obviously selling non-NIB guns? And how about those shady manufacturers, providing those FFL's with used merchandise?

jimmyraythomason
May 25, 2009, 02:02 PM
A gun that has never been fired is still "NEW" regardless of how "OLD" it is. A car that has been sold and titled is "USED" even if it has no miles on it and cannot be resold as "NEW".

TexasRedneck
May 25, 2009, 02:02 PM
PT1911 - stay calm, yer meds are on the way.

Hungry Seagull
May 25, 2009, 02:09 PM
I recieved my guns in a retail packaging. The handgun had a small envelope with a fired case.

THAT was a enlightment. Not necessary and irrevelant where I am.

The shotguns were virgin. When they were shot alot and serviced by the smith, they still looked virgin.

I betcha the factory shot these guns too before shipping. I have a mind of a bored factory staff blasting away at thier range in between work shifts during breaks.

jakemccoy
May 25, 2009, 02:43 PM
in your opinion.. at what point does a new gun that is never fired become a used gun?

It depends on if I'm the seller or buyer. If I'm the seller, I'll say a gun is NIB if it has never been fired, cleaned and handled excessively. If I'm the buyer, I'll say a gun is used if it's coming from someone other than the factory or immediate retailer.

jakemccoy
May 25, 2009, 02:49 PM
So it is a new car if you have it brought to your home on a truck?
how about the fact that every gun is test fired from the factory, thus even a new gun has been fired. I am sorry... the moment you walk out of the store you have a used gun. it has been purchased and it has been fired even if you personally have not fired it. When a gun is finished at the manufacturer prior to test fire is the only time it is reallly unfired. The only thing making it new is that it has not been sold through a retailer (written in their books and taken out of their books.)

For my money, there's a difference. I trust that the factory is using a specific type of ammo and procedures that are for testing purposes and that won't damage the gun. I do NOT reserve the same trust to a subsequent owner. If a subsequent owner fires the gun once, I'll assume he didn't know what he was doing and that he was using the worst possible ammo.

deadin
May 25, 2009, 02:50 PM
NRA Modern Firearms Condition Ratings
NEW: Not previously sold at retail; in same condition as current factory production.
NEW, DISCONTINUED: Same as new, but discontinued
PERFECT: In new condition in every respect.

Alternate NRA Modern Definitions - Percent of Finish:
MINT: New in box, not previously sold at retail.
NEW/PERFECT: 100% original finish, with or without original packaging.

I'm sure there are other grading systems out there as well. The main problem is that folks tend to mix them up and what's considered New in one may be a little different in another.

Using the NRA Modern definitions, I've always considered NIB to be the same as NRA "NEW" and LNIB the same as NRA "PERFECT", the difference is whether you are the first owner or a subsequent one. The "IB" is merely to indicate that all of the accessories are there (including the original box.)

However, YMMV! :evil:

Ed Ames
May 25, 2009, 02:53 PM
To me.... LNIB means it is in like new condition (NRA Perfect to high Excellent) and has all the original packaging, but perhaps the warranty card has been sent in or the like.

NIB means that it is in "as packaged from the factory" condition and the original packaging has not been destructively disturbed. It is exactly what you would get if you went to a dealer.

An example: A dealer sells someone a Mossberg 500 shotgun with two barrels. The dealer will have opened the box and read the serial number from the receiver but they will probably never have assembled the gun. They won't have opened the envelope with the documentation and small parts.

If the new owner assembles the gun, takes it out, shoots it a few times, realizes they aren't happy with a pump gun, and packs everything back together (just as you would with a radio you were returning) it could be described as LNIB (assuming they were careful).

If the person purchased it and never even opened the box... just put it on a shelf and left it there... I'd be fine with them calling it NIB.

colorado_handgunner
May 25, 2009, 02:54 PM
This discussion is going no where, only a discussion of semantics. Let's put our efforts into something constructive, okay?

Ed Ames
May 25, 2009, 02:56 PM
Why? I mean, if it's what people want to discuss, who are you to say we shouldn't?

JShirley
May 25, 2009, 02:59 PM
Much ado over nothing.

XavierBreath
May 25, 2009, 06:59 PM
Syntax

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