[TallPine]

From Fox News: (not gun related but somehow seems connected)

SEATTLE — The spotted owl (search) is one of the most studied, protected animals in U.S. history but despite efforts to halt the logging of their natural habitat, scientists say its recovery is endangered and it may become extinct for completely natural reasons.

Protective efforts for the owls led to timber industry wars in the 1980s and the walling off of millions of acres of forest to loggers (search) -- but the spotted owl is being replaced by a heartier feathered foe -- the barred owl.

"Natural systems are pretty unpredictable,” Eric Forsman, a U.S. forest service biologist, said. “When you set about trying to manage a particular species there are lots of things that can happen that are unplanned."

Author Ron Arnold said this discovery vindicates the loggers who claimed all along the owls' precarious position wasn’t their problem. “What's happening is a natural process,” he said. "You can't turn nature into a museum even though environmentalists try. But I think they should be very apologetic and do some reparations -- put the loggers back.

“Studies show more than 22,000 logging jobs vanished because of the battle to save the spotted owl, devastating small mill towns throughout the Northwest. They're jobs that despite this new research are likely gone forever as environmental groups refuse to give an inch."

The Audubon Society (search) wants all old-growth logging banned and more tree-cutting restrictions on private land, if too late for the spotted owl then for the rest of the forest’s animals. Critics say it’s time for better balance between man and nature.

"If we give up now and we take the argument that they're declining, let's give up, let's just log it all anyway,” said Alex Morgan of the Audubon Society. “I think it's definitely a cop out but it's also inexcusable."

But industry experts say a second timber war is unlikely because wood is increasingly being imported from countries with cheap labor and less environmental protections -- the types of protections that activists promised would save the spotted owl.

[Dave R]

I have watched first hand as a small town near Boise (Horseshoe Bend) lost a Boise Cascade mill, and has fallen on very hard times.

I'm glad to see someone telling the enviro-wackos that species DO go extinct. Its been happening since the first multi-cell life forms. PREVENTING a species from going instinct may be a worse way of manipulating mother nature.

[Hkmp5sd]

Darn, there goes that "survival of the fittest" crap again. Why can't these owls just get along? :rolleyes: Something bad is happening in nature and the human race can't be blamed?

[bountyhunter]

When Reagan was governor here in kali, OSHA was one of his pet peeves and the spotted owl controversy was said to have ticked him off. Allegedly, he said something like this about the owls:

"Why don't they just go somewhere else? They can fly, can't they?"

This was the same guy who at a fundraiser was listening when the speaker said that OSHA should be disbanded, Reagan said "AMEN!" right into his microphone.

He also once said: "If you've seen one redwood tree, you've seen 'em all."

Government 1

Owls 0

[BigG]

I'm told they taste jus like chicken. :o

[El Tejon]

bounty, if only Ronnie Raygun has abolished OSHA, that horrific monster, and the EPA!

If you love animals you should eat them. We do not have a shortage of animals where people have an economic incentive to see that they continue to exist. Put the marketplace to work!

No one knows Spotted Owl like the Badger. Give a hoot, eat an owl.:cool:

[TallPine]

I did some research on the owl/logging thing about 12 years ago.

I found out about a company in Northern CA that owned a lot of its own redwood timberlands. Since young redwoods don't grow up well in shade, they practiced a "checkerboard" pattern of logging small clearcuts.

The surprise was that this company's heavily logged timberlands had the highest concentration of spotted owls of anywhere on the west coast.

It seems that the owls need open country to hunt mice and moles, etc, and tall timber to nest in, so the mixture of clearcuts and timber was perfect habitat.

Then there was the logging outfit that I read about, that found a pair of spotted owls nesting in the second growth (50-60 yr old) timber that they were harvesting. They immediately shut down the operation and called the wildlife people to come check it out and tell them how to proceed.

The wildlife bioligists refused to even come out and look, because "spotted owls don't nest in second growth forest" :rolleyes:


This is all the same kind of blind refusal to look at the facts that gun control people perpetrate.

[feedthehogs]

I must confess, next to the Mantee, Brown Pelican, Bald Eagle and Panda Bears, spotted owls are my favorite dish.

[Hkmp5sd]

Mantee, Brown Pelican, Bald Eagle and Panda Bears, spotted owls What, no whales? Just not into deep sea fishing, eh? :)

[TallPine]

Maybe I should have posted this thread in the hunting forum .... :rolleyes:

[kentucky bucky]

I love spotted owls. They taste a bit like whooping crane.:neener:

[4570Rick]

The natural order works. Don't mess with it!!! :fire:

[C.R.Sam]

The Audubon Society (search) wants all old-growth logging banned and more tree-cutting restrictions on private land, if too late for the spotted owl then for the rest of the forest’s animals. Thereby guarenteeing larger and more destructive forest fires.

With attendant waste of timber, jobs and wildlife.

Sam

[DigitalWarrior]

Chant with all of my statist friends

Reg - U - Late
Reg - U - Late
When in doubt
Reg - U - Late

[Ryder]

The Audubon Society (search) wants all old-growth logging banned

They are really going to feel like idiots when they hear about this:

Plants are destroying the Ozone Layer (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031014072546.htm)

Sure makes you wonder what's right when nature's wrong. Hey, WE can fix it! WE can fix anything! Hahhahha

[Malone LaVeigh]

Reg - U - LateWorks for me.

So what you all are saying is that an activity that destroys a creature's habitat has no effect on the rate of that creature's removal? Sorry, that doesn't make sense. Let's try an analogy. Say my neighbor has a life-threatening disease. Does that make it OK for me to come over and start tearing up his house? As the wildlife bio in the article pointed out, it's a complex problem.

BTW, all of this is probably moot anyway. The marten is apparently about to be listed, and that will pretty much shut us down. It was never just about the owl anyway, it's about all of the old-growth-dependant species, of which the owl is just the most apparent. I say this as someone who probably earns 75% of my paycheck planning timber sales in the Pacific Northwest, aka the range of the northern spotted owl.

They are really going to feel like idiots when they hear about this:

Plants are destroying the Ozone Layer Did you bother to read the article?

"Stratospheric ozone depletion is a human-created problem," says Robert C. Rhew, an assistant professor of geography at UC Berkeley who noted that most of the bromine and chlorine that reach the stratosphere are produced by humans.
But a number of studies in recent years have found that some crops also contribute to the atmosphere a small fraction of ozone-reacting methyl halides, such as methyl chloride, methyl iodide and methyl bromide-a compound that is manufactured to be used in agriculture as a soil fumigant, but which will be phased out completely by the Montreal Protocol by 2005.

[TallPine]

Just burn all the forests down ... that IS nature's way ... :rolleyes:

[MeekandMild]

You know, I'd bet the loggers kill these critters whenever they find them, to prevent the government from knowing which areas they inhabit.

The way to make conservation work is to have private property and economic incentives for preservation. Back when sane people ruled "Zimbabwe" they allowed privatization of land and managed elephant hunting so the elephants flourished. Now that they have a (racist nutball) commie government and nationalized farms, guess which animals are being slaughtered?

[Hkmp5sd]

You know, I'd bet the loggers kill these critters whenever they find them, to prevent the government from knowing which areas they inhabit.
Funny you should mention that. Around here, there is a problem with the Ospry. They are protected and love to build their nests on the high voltage distribution poles. Apparently there is some law that allows the linemen to move a nest that is something like 40% complete to another location. Any nest that gets past that stage gets to remain on the power pole and the linemen can't go near it or do any maintenance/repairs to the pole or cable.

It's amazing how many Ospry lay eggs in nests that are only 39% complete.

[c_yeager]

Ive always wondered what exaclty the spotted owl contributes to the world. I mean, what terrible things would happen without these creatures?

[4570Rick]

Ive always wondered what exaclty the spotted owl contributes to the world. I mean, what terrible things would happen without these creatures?

Another predator gets to eat the rodents.:rolleyes:

[semf]

Thereby guarenteeing larger and more destructive forest fires.
We found that out the hard way in '98. when half of Fla was on fire

[Ryder]

Of course I read the article Malone. You apparently don't have an ear for ironic sarcasm. Not that I blame you since that is practically a double negative though in reality it' an adjective...

According to the article humans will continue this investigation into altering natural genetics to correct this problem. So what's your point?

[Pinned&Recessed]

A college student's essay on the endangered Spotted Owl:

James McCabe's Essay on the Spotted Owl (http://www.filebox.vt.edu/users/rturpyn/essay.htm)

I like this Kid!!!!!:D

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is James McCabe's essay on Spotted Owls. He actually submitted this for a grade.


Background Information:

James McCabe is Travis's roommate from last year.


James hasn't been to classes in 6 weeks or so. One night, while intoxicated, James decided to check out his teachers website and see what the class was up to. He learned that an essay on the topic of Spotted Owls was due the following day. In his drunken state James created probably one of the funniest papers I have ever read.

The professor to whom the paper was given has since then asked James for permission to post the essay on the course website. The professor is using the essay as an example of what NOT to do



Here is the paper (with spelling errors and all):
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James McCabe

jmccabe@vt.edu

Assignment # 8: Owl vs. Owl



I did not give nor receive any unauthorized help on this assignment, and all work contained herein is, unfortunately, my own: _____________________.



Spotted owls are stupid. They can’t live anywhere that isn’t hundreds of years old and untouched by human hands and they breed themselves into extinction by mating with a natural enemy and potential predator, the barred owl. They are simply stupid, and out of all animals, they are quite possibly the ones most deserved of an untimely death.

If we as humans want to preserve animals, we need to do so with animals that actually serve some purpose to us. The spotted owl does nothing for our progression as a species. By saving and preserving the spotted owl, we must save and preserve its habit, which keeps us from logging those forests and puts premium timber at a greater risk for fire and other natural disasters. To me that is a waste just to save a species that, if even observed by humans, it is disturbed by their noise and subsequently dies.

If an animal is going to be naturally extinct, why should humans step in and try to save that animal? The barred owl is not an exotic, it is domestic to the Pacific Northwest just like the Spotted owl. The only difference being that the barred owl is not so picky about what it eats and the surroundings that it lives in. My point? The barred owl is not a little bitch like the spotted owl, and it can take a few loggers walking around here and there without keeling over and dying. Adaptivity is the key to survival: we as humans must constantly adapt to a changing environment in order to survive. Maladaption, in a human sense, is a sign of mental disorder. Therefore, spotted owls are characteriscally mentally retarded and should be seperated from other owls and properly taunted by their peers.

Through all this, one name springs to mind: Darwin. The barred owl is obviously the “fittest” of the two species. So why then are we trying to save an animal that is naturally being killed by a stronger, more adept species? That is like promoting the death of humans to save prehistoric globs of amphibious sludge because in this harsh world those globs just aren’t up to the task. Spotted owls, take note. You serve no purpose, I have a gun, and your feathers make a pretty neat hat.

[C.R.Sam]

Cool paper
thanks P&R.

That does touch , tangently, on seriosity.

Spotted likes mature timber. Not necessairily old growth. They nest in trees AND nooks in banks/cliffsides....and they sometimes use other birds nests.

And my buddy, the Horned Owl eats em when handy.

Just might be they kinda scarce in old growth timber cause they rather have mature re-growth stuff.

Sam

[HABU]

The spotted owl was/is just a scapegoat to save timber. The old growth should be saved for its own sake, sans the scapegoat. If the loggers had their way, they would cut down every old growth tree on the face of the earth. There is way too much timber to cut, eliminating the need to cut the last old growth tree. I would like to show my kids an old growth stand with or without a spotted owl in it.

Lest you think I am a pink fingered office working tree hugger, I'll tell you I am a commercial carpenter and love to hunt and fish. If construction went TU, I'd still find a way to make a living. Kinda like the displaced loggers and commercial fishermen of a decade or so ago.

Let the owls be. Let the old growth be. Cut second growth and plant more.

[roscoe]

HABU, I'll drink to that.

.

[DigitalWarrior]

Preservation is a ridiculous concept. The idea of placing a static model (climate, growth patterns, populations) ignores that in nature Stuff Changes All the Time! Nothing stands still. Competition is a part of life. Humans 6,000,000,000, Spotted Owls 1,000. In competitions there are losers. In nature losers die.

That beautiful noble lion kills stuff that screams and bleeds. It doesn't feel guilty. Neither do I.