Correct hold for a handgun?

[emilianoksa]

While shooting my semi auto recently, I tried locking my arm at the elbow and shoulder in a strong straightening movement. Accuracy seemed to improve.

Please bear in mind that I am a novice and, like most Englishmen, have never received instruction on the correct way to hold a pistol. I'm trying to teach myself.

So I'd be grateful if you could tell me which of the following is true:

1. You have discovered the correct way to hold a handgun.

2. What you are doing is wrong.

3. There is more than one way to hold a pistol. Different techniques work for different shooters.

[BlindJustice]

Basic reading material

Google Weaver Stance and there's a
modified Weaver.

Don't lock your elbos - firm consistent
grip, your arms with bent elbos will absorb the
recoil, and then you regain sight picture.

Randall

[Jim Watson]

What were you doing with the other hand?

A. Letting it dangle so as to shoot one handed in the traditional dueling or bullseye shooting manner? Then a long straight gun arm is a standard method.

B. Using it for support in one way or another? There are different approaches. Straight gun arm, straight support arm is known as the Isoceles stance because the two arms and breadth of the body form a triangle. A straight gun arm and a bent support arm is called the Chapman stance by those with the history, "modified Weaver" by those who don't.
Both arms bent lead to the Weaver stance which is absorbent of recoil but perhaps less precise.
The hand positions on the gun matter, too. What a golfer would call an overlapping grip is good.

[wyocarp]

It would be very helpful to be able to see a picture. See if you can get someone to take a picture of your grip on the pistol and then post it.

[The Lone Haranguer]

For your grasp on the handgun, much will depend on its grip shape and control locations. You don't want, for example, to hold it in such a way that slide stops, safeties and magazine releases (if a pistol) are activated while shooting.

[Straight Shooter]

Here are some basics. Hope this helps...

Explanation of the basic pistol stances:
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/29861_guns-stance-types.htm

Weaver stance:
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/29862_guns-stance-weaver.htm

Isosceles stance:
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/29863_guns-stance-isosceles.htm

Modified Weaver:
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/29864_guns-stance-modified-weaver.htm

Proper Grip:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363

[VTChuck]

More info on the Combat Grip:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

[cactusgeorge]

I speak as a professional firearms instructor here. Be very careful with a lot of the information and instruction handed out on these "Expert Village" videos. Most of the "instructors" are just well intended amateurs or "wannabes" and what they are passing along is either vague, faulty and/or not correct, at best. Your best choice would be to seek out the services of a certified professional instructor.

[rbernie]

I speak as a professional firearms instructor here. Be very careful with a lot of the information and instruction handed out on these "Expert Village" videos. Most of the "instructors" are just well intended amateurs or "wannabes" and what they are passing along is either vague, faulty and/or not correct, at best.What specifically did you have quarrel with in the referenced videos?

[basicblur]

I noticed in one of the links they discuss the straight thumb vs overlapping thumbs, recommending new shooters be taught the overlapping thumb for a number of reasons, but weapon retention was not mentioned.

When I took my CHP class, the instructor (former LEO) recommended the thumb over thumb as it was better for weapon retention.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks a lot for all your responses.

I'll be following up all your leads, and will try to overcome my embarrasment and post a picture of the way I hold my gun, some time in the future.

I have two: a Glock 25 (looks like a 19 but is chambered for 380 - S American restrictions on caliber) and a CZ 75 Kadet in 22lr.

You won't be surprised that I'm shooting the 22 better than the 380, and doing reasonably well out to 25 metres.

I suppose I've been using, or trying to use, the isoceles stance.

I can get most of my 380 shots inside the black at 15 metres but the grouping is not good.

Whatever the inconvenience, I think I'll have to start inspecting the target after each shot, instead of after each string of five, to try and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks again for all your help.

By the way, am I alone in not particularly liking the feel or operation of the Glock trigger?

I know it's a bad workman who criticizes his tools, but I prefer the trigger on the CZ 83, and wish I'd bought that gun instead.

[Toml]

Hold firmly so that the tip of the index finger rests comfortably on the trigger. Pull straight back.

[jad0110]

I've always liked this video:


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&ei=5kscSqPWGp62qQK4mo2mBA&q=todd+jarrett&hl=en

[emilianoksa]

Excellent video.

Thanks for posting it.

[Zerodefect]

The proper grip video with Todd jarret above is the best grip if it works for u. aka combat grip, especially with Glocks.

If you don't like the Glocks trigger don't fret, its fixable.

http://www.glockwarehouse.com/product_p/zt-ful-drp-sm.htm

[rhyfl]

I shoot IPSC matches with my sons and have found the following website to be extremely helpful for all pistol shooting techniques - great information:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?

[PT1911]

just avoid the damn teacup hold and wrist supporting hold... they are the most rediculous things I have ever seen.... follow instuction of previous posts and you will be fine... Just make an effort to practice with every shot. Your shooting will improve drastically if you are patient and try to improve with every shot.

[Clarence]

Remember the isometric push-pull portion.................push with the gun hand and pull with the offhand.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks.

I'll try to remember that.

[Ankeny]

Remember the isometric push-pull portion.................push with the gun hand and pull with the offhand. Of course there is an opposing school of thought. No pun intended.

[chriske]

I' ve caught some flak about this earlier, but I still think that apart from the very basic principles of sight picture, trigger control and such, # 3 goes.
Different things work for different people.

[lykoris]

Indeed, different things do work for different people.

First of all, don't become discouraged at your groups, when I started pistol shooting just over a year ago my groups were atrocious at best :uhoh:

A guy at the range said he would help me out and in fact most of what he taught me is repeated in that Jarrett video above - stance, grip, tip of finger on trigger pad & squeezing, sight picture. Watch it a few times and note down the points he makes.

It's a LOT to take in so I spent countless hours addressing one aspect of the above and focusing primarily on that every trip to the range, I found it better to take it one step at a time...while evidently being conscious of the other aspects.

Most difficult part for me was learning how to hold the pistol correctly in the web of my hand, it wasn't natural to me and took time to erase that tendency I had, difficult to explains but it's in 38-1.04 of the video.

learn with your .22lr and tighten up the groups before shooting the .380 - you can practice and hone your skills with thousands of rounds for next to nothing as ammo is so cheap and it's all transferable to bigger calibres - in some ways I'm glad here(Luxembourg) we have to do 1 year of 22lr pistol before moving up to centerfire.

I'd also recommend shooting strings of 5 or 10 rounds before looking at your spotting scope(guessing you're shooting at 25m ? ). I found shooting one round and looking at the spotting scope is counterproductive.

I also found it difficult to have a blurry target and focus solely on the sights.

On a standard 25m target my average 10 shots would be 3-4 in the 10 and the rest in the 9 area - occasionally I have 1/2 shots in the 8....but that's after hundreds of hours, thousands upon thousands of rounds downrange.

I've spent much of the past 6-9 months shooting pistols to the detriment of my rifle shooting but it is incredibly rewarding when you get it right and see the improvement.

like most sports, get the basics down and then practice,practice, practice

as for the glock trigger....well a friend hates his glock/doesn't want to sell it but wants to keep one in his collection. As I was restricted to 22 for 12 months he said I could reload and shoot his til I get my own 9mm. I wasn't a fan of it but it has grown on me a lot. It's not a competition pistol afterall.

To sum it all up - don't be discouraged, try to address one aspect at a time on every trip to the range - obviously incorporating the other aspects but really focusing on perfecting one and practice as much as you can.

I'm glad I learnt how to shoot with proper technique before moving to 9mm but I got a LOT of hassle from guys at my club shooting a S&W 41 with two hands :scrutiny:

[Luis Leon]

I'm not an expert nor do I play one on the internet. But I do like to observe pistol shooters hands when they are on the line firing at IDPA or USPSA matches. One thing I see some new shooters do consistently is minutely shift the grip of their support hand. Meaning they don't grip the gun the same way after a reload, malfunction, etc. Consistency in the grip is also key. There is a a lot of great advice here. The video that did it for me and gave me that aha! moment was the Todd Jarret pistol grip lesson video on youtube.:)

best regards,

Luis Leon

[Funderb]

I speak as a professional firearms instructor here. Be very careful with a lot of the information and instruction handed out on these "Expert Village" videos. Most of the "instructors" are just well intended amateurs or "wannabes" and what they are passing along is either vague, faulty and/or not correct, at best. Your best choice would be to seek out the services of a certified professional instructor.


did you want to maybe throw out some helpful information, or in your professional opinion, should that cost money here too? :neener:

[cactusgeorge]

If you even had an inkling of what professional firearms training consisted of...you wouldn't be making such a patently absurd statement... and oh, I am doing very well with my own small school presently, thank you. The above advice is FREE Mr, Funderb..!!

[OldCavSoldier]

If you are a novice pistol shooter, I think you are shooting at targets too far away. I am an NRA Pistol and Personal Protection IN the Home instructor and for the basic pistol course, we have our students shoot at 9-inch diameter (~23cm) paper plates at a range of 15 feet (~4.6m). When you can keep all the shots on the paper plate at that range, move it out to about 25 feet (~7.6m). Unless you are shooting for competition (and I don't think you are with a .380 Glock) you don't have to do the 50 foot targets unless you REALLY want to.

Regarding the Glock trigger, I, personally, really DO NOT like Glocks and do not have one for two reasons: the triggers suck, and the Glock's "non-standard" angle of the grip is very difficult for me to get accustomed to...being a retired US Army officer and too many years shooting 1911's.

[1shot3kills]

but i cant,but i can tell what my grandfather charlie reed,and my stepfather dennis reed,both are the former owners of elm fork winchester gun range in irving drilled in to me was there are 2 seperate gripping techniques that are used,1 is the correct for a revolver,and one is correct for a automatic,neither of them are the wrist gripper or teacup as mentioned by someone,the one for the automatic has your index finger wraped around front of trigger guard,and you also have your webbing of skin out of slide path(obvious reasons),the other for a revolver has both hands gorrilla gripping the grips.your stance should be with your knees slightly bent,andyour feet at least your shoulder with apart .next you should have your elbows slightly bent(how ever much is comforatble for you,but not to close to face).........you ever seen sombody put a pistol up close to face to look down the sitghts and shoot and it comes back and hits face....lol....anyways you dont want it to happen....and lean forward like you are going to try to stop somebody from running out your door with all your money or something.....not to much because remember stability,comfort,and mobility to move in case you have to in a need be defense situation.....

as far as using your sights on gun,focus on front sight,you will be more accurate in your shooting,rear sight alighnment to the front sight will come natural,and as far as target is concerned at 15 to 25 feet and out to 25 yards you line your sights at the bottom edge of you bullseye,and siloette body targets you always aim center mass.....repeat "aim center mass"..anything closer then 15 to 25 feet try not using your sights,do reflex or instinct shooting,in other words pull from holster ,point ,and shoot just as soon as you get your stance (or better yet draw,stance,grip,point,trigger pull all at some time).........important thing to remember is when you are drawing weapon never take your eyes off your objective target,and keep trigger finger out from trigger until your have the bore coming up and close to fire time,and the key to reflex shooting is where ever you point that muzzle the very first time and your "intinct to point decides is where it needs to be" is the best place.......in other words if you try to overide you instincts and try to adjust yourself will make you off from where you need to be,,,,,,i used to instruct reflex shooting,and when the dallas swat team and some goverment groups came out i used to practice with them because i good at reflex shooting,and i am blind in 1 eye also and i shoot crosshanded from my blind eye........except for rifle and shotgun......

he is another teqnique to practice your pull and aim (this also helps with using sights for target shooting).........if you have a revolver that has a fixed firing pin on hammer...example is a smith and wesson 681 or 686 with a 4in barrel that has a flat ridge on top of barrel) and you place a dime at the tip of barrel behind the front sight and you grip it like your supposed to and pull that trigger until your finger cant pull no more and keeping that dime from coming off.i used to do that about 15 minutes at least once a week.....you will nitice a difference in your shooting...the reason you use a fixed firing pin revolver is
1.it wont damage firing pin
2.it is actually doing its own trigger job as you are doing this....i swear upon the graves of the two men who taught me this graves.......(thats also the reason the elm fork is not in family anymore,dennis died about 3 years ago,charlie died about 20 yrs ago)

anyways i hope this helps

[parisite]

Always remember there are those who believe if a pistol was meant to be shot with two hands they would have been made with two handles on them.

[David E]

Just watched the "Expert Village" videos.........talk about a mis-named Village !

He's vague and doesn't have a clue what a real Weaver is, much less a Modern Isosceles. The Modern Iso isn't even covered and there is no mention at all about the "push/pull" that makes up a significant part of what the Weaver is.

I've described my stance before and wouldn't you know it, EVERYONE reading the thread (who were asking the questions) were already doing it that way........:rolleyes:

The Jarret and Enos links/suggestions are good ones.

[Coltman 77]

True. It should be called "Non Expert or Amateur Village".

I've seen a lot of incorrect enough info. there.

[ChCx2744]

stance is important, but IMHO i think your grip is the most important when it comes to handgun accuracy and fire rate.

[tmpick]

Hold firmly so that the tip of the index finger rests comfortably on the trigger. Pull straight back.

Also, aim and hit target. Repeat.

[DeepSouth]

Todd Jarrett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

[ar10]

What I've seen is everybody is different. What works for someone doesn't necessarily work for someone else. About the only thing would tell new shooters, (and I've seen a lot of them), is don't wrap your thumb behind the slide, You will loose some skin a probably expose the bone. And you wouldn't believe how many shooter I have to tell that too.

[David E]

How you hold the gun is far more important than any "stance."

By "stance," I refer to foot placement and even body orientation.

I teach "proper" stance, but as soon as they understand it, I add, "but you'll hardly ever be able to get the 'proper' stance."

Shooting is primarily from the shoulders out. Do that well and it won't matter what your feet are doing, or even if you have feet.

Don't misunderstand; get the best stance you can if time allows, but it's really not all that important.