[Newton]

If you carried a .380ACP for CCW, would you carry FMJ or a high quality JHP like the Hydrashok/Golden Saber/Corbon etc.

Thanks

[MikeJ]

I would carry hollowpoints, either the Speer Gold Dot or Remington Golden Saber.

[Dorrin79]

the only person i know who carries a .380 carries it loaded with (IIRC) 90 gr Hydra-shoks. They might be 95 gr, I'm not certain

[Keith]

I carry hollowpoints. If it fails to expand, it IS an FMJ...

Keith

[Tim Burke]

FMJ. If the JHP expands, I may not get the penetration I need.

[LFW]

I seldom carry my PPK .380, but when I do I use FMJ. I don't fully trust reliability of any .32 or .380 blowback with hollowpoints, and just barely trust them with FMJ. Don't think hollowpoints are very effective in .380 anyway.--Leigh

[Brigrat]

I concur with the FMJ's, the hollow points of every variety that I have seen tested, including gold dots, have failed to penetrate even close to far enough if they fully expand.

[DMK]

I use FMJ also. It's not that I'm afraid that they won't expand. I'm afraid that they just might.

I'm not comfortable with the reliability or penetration track record of HPs in these smaller calibers. I use FMJ in .32ACP, .380 and probably will go with FMJ for 9x18 also.

[Blackhawk]

I agree with Brigrat, but I don't carry a .380.

I did some number crunching of .32s versus .380s from the perspective of penetration force per unit area from equivalent barrel lengths as you would have in KT P-32's versus P-3ATs.

The hotter .32 FMJ's like the Geco and S&B 73 grain slugs have about 28% and 19% more penetrating force than the typical .380 FMJ 95 grain round.

The 2 PPK .380's I had made a nice splat with JHPs, but I was a bit concerned about lack of penetration using them in a CCW. Water balloons make a tremendous splat, but I've never even been slowed down by one....

Anybody know of an online source where I can get Dynamit Noble/RWS/Geco ammo for my P-32...? :D

[Alan Fud]

Wife goes both ways ... the Mrs alternates FMJ and Cor-Bon every other round in the mag in her Browning BDA380 -- seven rounds of FMJ and seven rounds of JHP.

A closely spaced double tab give you the best of both worlds -- expansion & penetration.

[CZ-100]

FMJ in my P-3AT

[concerned citizen]

I use win. sxt 95g jhp's.

I am waiting paitently for corbon to release there powRball in 380acp, then that will be my carry round of choice.

[akanotken]

in an effort to get the most penetration. 9mm is minimal I'd consider for HPs. YMMV

[Standing Wolf]

I hardly ever carry my .380 A.C.P., but when I do, it's loaded with jacketed hollow points: the rounds may not expand much or go very deeply, but I think they'll deliver greater stopping power. I hope I never find out whether they do or don't.

[gk1]

If they don't "expand much or go very deeply", where's the "stopping power" coming from?

George

[AUTIGER04]

Remington Golden Saber 102gr JHP.

[JERRY]

i know a guy who carries a seecamp .32

it is loaded with win sthp as recommended by the factory, however, he has put a drop of 5 minute epoxy in the cavity of each round so it acts like a fmj.

[Newton]

I'm sure that if he ever needs to use it in self defence, a slimy lawyer will try to make some capital out of your friend's "poison tipped rounds".

There's an easier way of getting FMJs, just buy them, it saves money too.

Ok, I'm off to drill out the cores of some FMJ's to make my hollowpoints.

[JMag]

I really trust the .32 Corbon load in my P32 more than most any .380 I have ever used. However, my current .380 favorite is Triton's excellent Quick Shot +P load. See it at http://www.tritonammo.com/.

[Al Thompson]

Newton, Seecamp's are designed to use only slivertips. The epoxy in the HP sounds like a good idea to me. :)

[Byron]

Federal American Eagle FMJ for my Browning BDA. The Winchester WinClean FMJ has a flat nose. I have wondered if this is more effective. Byron

[Kentucky Rifle]

When I purchased my Seecamp, I was a little disappointed. I used the recommended Silvertips but one in four
"keyholed". I finally got in touch with Larry Seecamp (Us "recluses" are a little difficult to find) and he told me to go to Gold Dots. Just like that~~no more keyholes. I like Gold Dots more than ST anyway. Now, I load my Seecamp with RBCD. (All my .32's and most everything else too) Works perfectly. My Colt Mustang Pocketlite has .380 RBCD's in the magazine. FMJ profile and no problems hanging up.

KR

[Newton]

Al - Surely the point is that a Silvertip filled with epoxy isn't a Silvertip anymore. Or are we saying that because the gun was designed around the Silvertip, a regular length FMJ doesn't fit into the magazine, that would make more sense.

[JERRY]

the sthp is about as long as will fit in the seecamp mag. fmj is too big in o.a.l.

the non toxic 5 minute epoxy does not add to the length. it just fills the cavity giving it a flat nose profile.

if i had a seecamp or could afford one, i'd think about doing this too, elmers glue would work too i guess, just to stop the drivel about "killer" bullets.


going back to the .380 question, id use fmj over a h.p. for the assurance of adequate penetration, something an expanding .380 h.p. does not deliver.

[Sapo]

Corbon 90 grain JHP's in a Sig P230.

[Oracle]

Anybody know of an online source where I can get Dynamit Noble/RWS/Geco ammo for my P-32...?

I believe that the Fiocchi FMJ .32ACP's are just as hot as the Dynamit Noble/Geco .32ACP ammo. That's what I'm using in my P-32.

Truthfully, I don't think that the P-3AT offers a whole lot more actual stopping power than the P-32.

[jar]

http://www.fototime.com/B15AE6B067F039C/standard.jpg

[Blackhawk]

Not really, Oracle. GoldenLoki's tests show the Fiocchi at 859 FPS and 120 FPE out of a P-32. That results in a 6% better "puncture factor" than a typical .380 FMJ, but the Geco gets a 28% better PF and the S&B a 19% better one.

Can't wait for GoldenLoki to run the ballistic tests on his P-3AT so I can do some apples to apples noodlin'....

It doesn't seem like manufacturers snerk up their .380 offerings that much.

In any event, S&B's standard FMJ offerings in .32 versus .380 show the .32 as having a 30% better PF at 50 meters despite the .380 having 8% more energy.

If the lighter and faster sweetspot favors .32 over .380 in pocket pistols (and it seems that it does), then the P-32 may end up being a more effective round in them.

Meanwhile, I'm still looking for an online source of Dynamit Noble .32 FMJ ammo.... :D

[cool45auto]

We keep Hydra Shoks in our Bersa.

[Oracle]

In any event, S&B's standard FMJ offerings in .32 versus .380 show the .32 as having a 30% better PF at 50 meters despite the .380 having 8% more energy.

Are you really going to be using a P-32 at 50 meter ranges?

I'll go look at Goldenloki's stuff, I have previously, it's just been a while since I've visited his site. I'll start looking for the Geco and S&B .32ACP's around here, Geco is usually difficult to find unless you find an importer who bought it as surplus and is selling it on the surplus market, but S&B is usually imported regularly, and easier to find.

From what I've seen, it looks like the evidence is coming in that the .32ACP is a better penetrator than the .380ACP, in a Kel-Tec P-32/P-3AT sized gun. With those small calibers, what you want is penetration, the ability to reach and disrupt vital structures in the body. The "energy" of the round really does not matter, what matters is what structures it can reach and how well it can damage those structures, and it looks like the P-32 may have an edge in this regard over the P-3AT.

[mini14jac]

I'm currently carrying Winchester Silvertips alternating with fmj rounds, in my P3AT.

Best of both worlds.

FWIW, my P3AT is more accurate than my P32 was, though I always felt the P32 was plenty accurate enough.

[Rogelio]

winchester 95 grain FMJ

[Blackhawk]

Are you really going to be using a P-32 at 50 meter ranges?Nope. 50 feet is more like the maximum range for a P-32, and that's with a carefully aimed shot at the range. It's pretty good at 25' for rapid shots, and very good at 15' for quick draw SD shots. If having to engage a goblin with a P-32, I'd call a 50m distance a decent head start....

I wouldn't even engage a goblin at 50m with a 9mm unless absolutely necessary!

It's really hard to get apples to apples data on the .32 versus .380 loads. By the time you add the shorter barrel factor, you're in the 50m ballistics area when shot from the typical long barrel manufacturer's data tables.

[Newton]

Interesting, I never expected people to taking the .32 over the .380.

I note the comments about penetration, but riddle me this, every single analysis of actual street shootings with the .380 I have ever seen shows a very significant advantage where a hollowpoint was used.

I have never seen any statistics that put an FMJ (or solid) ahead of a HP in actual shooting results in ANY caliber.

[RTFM]

Bersa Thunder 380 with Corbon

RTFM

[Blackhawk]

Interesting, I never expected people to taking the .32 over the .380.Yeah, and I never expected to be one of those people, but it looks like that's what I'm turning out to be. :what:

I'm still considering getting a P-3AT to do my own testing, but I've cooled considerably on the cartridge after doing some more serious analyses.

The 9mm Kurz (.380) doesn't have near enough powder space or high enough pressure limit to compare with the 9mm Luger, so I'm almost inclined to skip it in favor of the Rohrbaugh R-9. That should be a serious pocket pistol!

[David4516]

I carry a 9mm Makarov (basicly a souped up .380 ACP) with 95 gr Hornady XTPs. They are my own handloads, and I get about 1050 FPS. I've done some informal expansion tests and this bullet does seem to be a reliable expander at this velocity...

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/480517

[Dave R]

JHP. I also use the 102gr. Golden Sabres.

I did some penetration/expasion testing with these in wet newsprint. Even with 5 layers of denim covering the media, I got about 10in penetration and perfect mushrooms. About 70% of the depth/breadth of "wound channel" from the 9mm I compared it to.

So I feel confident enough that I'll get sufficient penetration with this load, even with good expansion.

[Marko Kloos]

I use CorBon +P JHP loads in my P232, but I wouldn't get terribly worked up if i had to carry it with regular old FMJ.

[Scoob]

I am currently useing Hydra-shoks in the 380, and ball in the 32. The 32 is just not enough lead to use jhps IMO. If it expands at all it will look like a pancake, not good for penitration. I am still riding the fence on the HP's in 380, may or may not be a good idea. You can't have it all with these calibers, you have to compromise somewhere.

[Gunner45]

My Colt Mustang is full of Corbon 90 grainers or Golden Saber 102s.

Both expanded well when I shot them into balistic gel.

Gunner45

[enfield]

Hollow points in warm weather and FMJ in the winter.