ever shot a catfish?


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jmorris
May 26, 2009, 01:06 PM
I built a pond rake to clean out one of our ponds to make it possible to fish again. Well it stirred up a little bit of everything. I noticed a catfish right at the waters edge that I assumed I raked up the day before. As I closed in I realized it was a snake that had taken him to shore. He was about half way there but the shot dislodged the fish.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/farm/HPIM0268.jpg

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indoorsoccerfrea
May 26, 2009, 01:13 PM
that's a nice sized snake you got there! 5 foot? looks to be a water moccason if i can see it right...

ive shot at a bass in my pond once...i forgot to account for the deflection of light and the change of the bullet's path, so i missed. such a shame, i was hungry

countertop
May 26, 2009, 01:47 PM
Is that a moccasin???

I hate snakes

svtruth
May 26, 2009, 02:46 PM
IIRC has, or used to have a gun season for pike. The females would come into shallow water to spawn, attended by males. Vermonters would climb trees and shoot at them. The concussion would stun them. I believe alcohol was often involved too.
Can anyone confirm?

countertop
May 26, 2009, 02:51 PM
Yes.

They still do. There was a great article in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/11/national/11FISH.html) about this a couple of years ago.

Apparently, Virginia does as well - though I knew people in Vermont who did and have yet to find anyone in Virginia who does.

I blogged about it then (http://www.countertopchronicles.com/2004/05/11/httpcountertop-chroniclesblogspotcom200405i-cant-believe-its-in-new-york-times/) (at my old site)

MCgunner
May 26, 2009, 06:19 PM
When I was a kid, I shot a redfish, or next to it and stunned it, that was next to my boat while I was duck hunting. Shot next to him with my 20 gauge, mud everywhere, reached down and put him in the boat.

I've shot a lot of gar and a few buffalo suckers....with a bow and harpoon. It's a lot of fun.

mbt2001
May 26, 2009, 09:57 PM
Reminds me of Bull frog hunting in irrigation canals or small creeks. Straight down shot, 22 short right to the head. Not but a few inches of water between you and the target if that.

Grumulkin
May 27, 2009, 07:47 AM
I've taken carp with a 22 LR.

Dave P
May 27, 2009, 07:51 AM
My grandfather used to shoot the big muskies after he landed them. They gots big teeth in North Wisconson.

KenWP
May 27, 2009, 08:06 AM
Where my dad comes from a Sask. they shot lots of fish in the spring during spawning season with 22's. They ate a lot of suckers in the spring let alone pike.

MCgunner
May 27, 2009, 09:16 AM
My grandfather used to shoot the big muskies after he landed them. They gots big teeth in North Wisconson.

During the summer, black tip and lemon shark ar in the bay big time and put up a great fight. If I can't get one hand around 'em in back of the head, I tranquilize 'em with my .38. I do it before landing them, though. Wouldn't be smart to shoot 'em in the boat. :D Besides, they're sometimes too big to land without tranquilizing them. They've messed up the shark limits, though, to ONE per day. :rolleyes: It's the commercial pressure on them. The sport fishing pressure on shark is not that great. They have a rather low natality rate, though, being live barers.

Where my dad comes from a Sask. they shot lots of fish in the spring during spawning season with 22's. They ate a lot of suckers in the spring let alone pike.

When I first got into bow fishing, I shot some buffalo sucker fish. I tried to eat a few, but they were so full of interstitial bones, they weren't worth the effort. Tasted fine, just too many bones. Make great cut bait for trot lines, though. :D

Mp7
May 27, 2009, 09:33 AM
as a kid i "stabbed" a 2,5foot rainbowtrout once.

i happened to be sitting right where this bis fish swam by.
The Martiini filetting knife and my reflexes did the rest :)

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 27, 2009, 10:20 AM
You must have rented "Secondhand Lions". :D

I saw a snake exactly like that Monday while kayaking on a river - is that a water moccasin?

countertop
May 27, 2009, 10:24 AM
I saw a snake exactly like that Monday while kayaking on a river - is that a water moccasin?

Thats what I want to know. I didn't grow up down south - and so don't know them from others. But I hate snakes.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 27, 2009, 11:00 AM
No, I found it - it's this one I think, not a cottonmouth:

http://www.oksnakes.org/snakes/diamondbackwatersnake.htm

Mp7
May 27, 2009, 11:31 AM
i thought cottonmouth was related to a special kind of "flora" not "fauna" :evil:

blkbrd666
May 27, 2009, 11:42 AM
Looks like a water snake, or Water Moccasin as they called in NC. Not poisonous. Doesn't look dark enough for a Cottonmouth. One way to tell for sure, check for fangs(with a stick, not your fingers). On a Cottonmouth that size, they would be a half inch long.

countertop
May 27, 2009, 11:44 AM
But it could also be this snake - the western cottonmouth (http://www.oksnakes.org/index.cfm?snakeID=5&venomous=1&patterned=0&striped=0&solid=0&all=0) (was this found in Oklahoma??).

http://www.oksnakes.org/admin/photogallery/images/western%20cottonmouth%202.jpg

The shape of the head on the original posters snake makes me think its a moccasin. I guess this description would help too.

Cottonmouths swim with their head up and their entire body on the surface of the water, unlike the harmless water snakes, which swim with the lower half of their body underneath the water.

2dswamp
May 27, 2009, 12:52 PM
Just an FYI...water moccasin and cottonmouth are the same snake. "Cottonmouth" is a slang term used to describe a water moccasin
as the interior of it's mouth is white as cotton, especially when wide open.

And yes, it is venemous.

countertop
May 27, 2009, 01:02 PM
water moccasin and cottonmouth are the same snake

Yep.

Doesn't look dark enough for a Cottonmouth.

Same page of Oklahoma snakes has this picture of a moccasin.

http://www.oksnakes.org/admin/photogallery/images/western%20cottonmouth%203.jpg

Its tough to tell coloring by pictures. I guess someone who knew could make a positive identification from the pattern on the body. I don't know. Just wondering if someone else here (or the original poster) does.

MCgunner
May 27, 2009, 01:05 PM
i thought cottonmouth was related to a special kind of "flora" not "fauna"

CottonWOOD, maybe? :D

chas08
May 27, 2009, 01:33 PM
This sight explained the Cottonmouth very well. Most water snakes are mistakenly called moccasins. Note in the photos the thick body, a trait not found in the majority of water snakes. But right or wrong, I kill them all, so I won't hurt myself later by being surprised by the same snake. :D

http://www.wf.net/~snake/moccasin.htm

jimmyraythomason
May 27, 2009, 01:36 PM
IIRC,there 17 different species/sub-speces of water snakes/moccasins in the Glorious South. One of which is known as the Cottonmouth. A CM is a legless grizzly in attitude when riled. Look at the eyes,round pupils=NOT poisonous, eliptical pupils(cat like)=poisonous. Much safer than digging for fangs. A dead snake can still "bite". Also look for a pit between the eye and nostril found in pit vipers.

2dswamp
May 27, 2009, 01:57 PM
I'm no snake expert, but I've lived in the southern most part of Virginia most of my life and hunt in the northern most part of NC where CM/WM are large in number.

I've killed more CM/WM than I'm able to recall. The snake in the original posters picture greatly resembles all of the CM/WM's that I've sent on to
snake heaven. If it is not a CM/WM, it would surely be killed for imitating one.

memphisjim
May 27, 2009, 02:06 PM
yes thats a water moc
the snakes are relatively fat for their length

juk
May 27, 2009, 02:40 PM
Lets see, not including bowfishing... I used to go to a few ponds near my house when I first got my 12ga. I was only 18 and looking for anything to shoot. The first pond was 50yards from my house and all it had was snakes and frogs. We shot 5 snakes (cottonmouths and copperheads) and probably 20 big bullfrogs. The other pond had catfish. We would take a pole and a 12 ga. When we ran out of bait, we would chum the cats to the surface and blast em. Good eatin. LOL Now the most amazing shot was when my friend and I were duck hunting. I was in the front of a gheenoe and dog tired from pushing us through muck and weeds. On our way back, we spooked a grass carp that was right under us and it took off perpendicular to the boat. It was jumping out of the water and my friend let it have a full load of 3 1/2 T shot. It turned belly up and we threw it in the boat. We found out it was 65-70lbs. Would have been a lake record if caught on rod and reel. LMAO

HB
May 27, 2009, 03:56 PM
t was jumping out of the water and my friend let it have a full load of 3 1/2 T shot. It turned belly up and we threw it in the boat. We found out it was 65-70lbs
I don't know, probably would have weighed about 5 pounds less without all that shot in him :D

runrabbitrun
May 27, 2009, 04:12 PM
Non venomous it seems.

LOOK at the nose.
It's not flat like most poisonous snakes have.

BTW... ANY snake can traverse waters.
Looks like an oak snake to me.
Many species have developed 'look alike' characteristics to ward off
would be predators.

I'm no snake expert though.

JohnBT
May 27, 2009, 04:32 PM
The northern water snake only averages 3' or 3.5', but looks a lot like a cottonmouth to most people. And dies for it.

http://www.bigtimbercreek.org/Northern_Water_Snake_web_.jpg

bigione
May 27, 2009, 04:50 PM
Now,you all will call me on this, but my Dad roped a catfish with a lariat and drug it out of the river with his saddle horse. 6 ft. or more. This during the dirty thirtys.

runrabbitrun
May 27, 2009, 05:43 PM
Snakes and other creatures grow as big as the envoroment allows.

They also go where THEY want to go.
Regardless of what scientist tell us where they live
and how big they can get.

I guess they didn't get the memo huh?
The snakes that is. LMAO

MCgunner
May 27, 2009, 06:47 PM
bigione, you sure you ain't a Texan? :D

jmorris
May 27, 2009, 06:51 PM
My grandparents always called them a Cottonmouth or water moccasion. The dimond shape head lets you know it's from the family of pitvipers known as Agkistrodon piscivorus. FWIT we shot six that day and they all looked different.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agkistrodon_piscivorus

http://www.wf.net/~snake/moccasin.htm

jmorris
May 27, 2009, 06:53 PM
Oh, that's in east Texas.

hardluk1
May 27, 2009, 07:43 PM
Does shoot'n 4 rounds from a 30-06 into a bunch of mullet count. Been out crab'n and had mullet come up brackish creeks and shoot ammungst them. Done that several times and get a bunch to bellyup so you can toose them on the bank.

TehK1w1
May 27, 2009, 08:03 PM
That's definitely a Cottonmouth, either a Florida or Western. Head shape is very distinctive. Also, with water snakes the eyes are visible from directly overhead, and in water moccasins they are not.
Like others have said, check the eyes for pupil shape, and the color of the inner mouth tissue(carefully!)

Cypress
May 27, 2009, 10:13 PM
Yep, it's a Coccamoxin! They are really bad this year in NE Texas!

jim147
May 27, 2009, 11:21 PM
I should of taken a picture from the weekend.
I was working in the garage and saw something headed my way. It was a four foot cottonmouth. I had the .45 colt half out of the holster when I remembered my daughter was asleep in the house. I walked to the back of the garage and got a .22 rifle went back to the door and he was just looking at me. So he took one to the head.

One the fish side of the story. Yes sometime I shot grass carp.

jim

X-Rap
May 27, 2009, 11:24 PM
The wider heart shaped head is usually a good indicator of the viper strain of snake. Some have rattles and some don't I guess, out in the west they all rattle.
Snakes like the coral don't have the big wide heads but that is the only one I can think of in North America. I'm sure there are others but they must be rare.

SHvar
May 27, 2009, 11:54 PM
Id like to see the entire snake but Im positive its a water moc. Im a long time reptile hobbyist, and a snake hunter when I feel like it. I dont kill them unless Im gonna eat them though.
If you dont know what your doing dont handle them, snake handling for someone like me is alot different than the average person, I know what Im doing.
Water snakes can be mistaken easily for water mocs and copperheads, its a survival tactic of watersnakes to look this way.
I have a pet that works great for finding missing venomous snakes (a friend used to have one escape on occasion), but you have to follow her and catch it before she does, or its food. She immune to cobra bites, and suffer only minor injuries from viper bites. Thats a lizard, 6ft 8 inches of snake eating monitor lizard.
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z281/SHvar/Picture019.jpg

juk
May 28, 2009, 01:51 AM
HB, The fish probably lost a few pounds actually. It looked like a clean shot pattern on the close side. The other side looked like a small shark got a good bite in!

rduckwor
May 28, 2009, 08:40 AM
Definitely a WM. The only snake that will go out of it's way to bite you.

I've had them swim towards me when they saw me on the bank of a pond or lake.

Definitely the devil in snake form.

RMD

bikerdoc
May 28, 2009, 09:05 AM
Definitely a WM. The only snake that will go out of it's way to bite you.

I've had them swim towards me when they saw me on the bank of a pond or lake.

Definitely the devil in snake form.


I hate snakes. Have killed every one I have ever seen from the jungles of viet nam to my backyard near the banks of the southern branch of the Elizabeth river in Southern Va!

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 28, 2009, 10:03 AM
Guys, it is almost certainly NOT a water mocassin, but rather the diamondback water snake, as I said above. Look at the striping pattern on the sides. On a WM, they're really not "stripes", because they have ridges along the edge of the color contrast, like a Dow Jones Average graph turned vertical. The striping on that snake is *roughly* a straight line at the contrast points, just like Diamondback - very, very different if you actually look at it awhile and compare it to the WM pictures. Yes, it has a heart-shaped head like a WM - but so does the DB water snake:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.houstonherp.com/Rhombifer03.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.houstonherp.com/DiamondbackWS.html&usg=__sju-1B2Gh8WC3af4H31pKn7YbmE=&h=322&w=481&sz=46&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=TGMDn8ekq6ki8M:&tbnh=86&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddiamondback%2Bwater%2Bsnake%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dcom.google:en-US:official%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1

http://images.google.com/images?q=diamondback+water+snake&oe=utf-8&rls=com.google:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=eJkeSrOWJorWMI-l2fEF&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title

The DB water snake has an extremely heart-shaped, viper-looking head, as you can see.


Compare that to the much more intricate, or "convoluted" pattern (with wider stripes) on the sides of a WM:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.google%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&um=1&sa=1&q=water+moccasin&aq=0&oq=water+moc

The wider striping is also more like interlocking triangles - one up, one down - on the water mocassin, whereas the striping is more of a straight vertical line with slight tapering to narrower towards both the top and bottom, like an elongated diamond.

jmorris
May 28, 2009, 10:42 AM
No offence DR. but the diamondback water snake is non-venomous and would not have had fangs. Only the poisonous ones have them (note the stick at the top of the photo to open the mouth). If I had three hands I would have got a photo of them.

MCgunner
May 28, 2009, 11:23 AM
If it had fangs, it was a cottonmouth. I have seen 'em from jet black to brown to some striping. Color seems to vary with 'em. The triangular head in the picture suggests pit viper, too. Can't really see the pit near the eye in that pic, though. I mean, I'm no herpetologist, but looks like a cottonmouth to me. I've shot more'n a few and the water snakes, too. The things will take over a tank (pond for you yankees) and can even hurt the fish population in the tank if it's stocked. I've spent a few afternoons with a .22 shooting water snakes before. Better'n watching TV. :D

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
May 28, 2009, 11:45 AM
No offence DR. but the diamondback water snake is non-venomous and would not have had fangs.

OK - in which post did you say that it had fangs?

Here's everything you've said so far in the thread:

I built a pond rake to clean out one of our ponds to make it possible to fish again. Well it stirred up a little bit of everything. I noticed a catfish right at the waters edge that I assumed I raked up the day before. As I closed in I realized it was a snake that had taken him to shore. He was about half way there but the shot dislodged the fish.

My grandparents always called them a Cottonmouth or water moccasion. The dimond shape head lets you know it's from the family of pitvipers known as Agkistrodon piscivorus. FWIT we shot six that day and they all looked different.

Oh, that's in east Texas.

No offence DR. but the diamondback water snake is non-venomous and would not have had fangs. Only the poisonous ones have them (note the stick at the top of the photo to open the mouth). If I had three hands I would have got a photo of them.


You never mentioned fangs, and the photo does not show fangs. Take a pic of the fangs. It's pretty clearly not a WM for the reasons I mentioned above - the pattern is completely wrong. Yes, they can look very different in color (light to almost black), but the PATTERN doesn't magically change. If it had fangs, and you looked at them, I think it would have been one of the first things you mentioned in the first post, if not the first thing.

jmorris
May 28, 2009, 01:31 PM
Well sir, in my first post I wrongly assumed that people could identify what kind of snake it was. I my 2nd post I wrongly assumed people knew that “cottonmouth or water moccasin” snakes are poisonous and have fangs. The snake was gone the next morning and the stick in the photo wasn’t there to kill it. If you are suggesting that I’m lying maybe I should have caught him and threw him in your sleeping bag and you could have told me what it was later.

Can you identify this snake by it's PATTERN?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Cottonmouth_image_001.jpg/800px-Cottonmouth_image_001.jpg

Art Eatman
May 28, 2009, 02:07 PM
I'd have to go back and re-read, but my recollection is that the moccasin family has several members which are not poisonous, although they all are fairly aggressive in their behavior. The Cottonmouth member is indeed poisonous, and is aggressive.

I've no idea how many different snakes will swim or hunt near or in water, but I know from seeing them in stocktanks that rattlesnakes can swim.

kanook
May 28, 2009, 02:31 PM
dead snake :D

MCgunner
May 28, 2009, 07:49 PM
Can you identify this snake by it's PATTERN?

I can identify it from the pits in front and below the eyes and the triangular head. :D As I said, there are many various colorations of cotton mouth that I've seen in the wild.

countertop
May 28, 2009, 07:57 PM
Can you identify this snake by it's PATTERN?

i hate snakes. If i were to run into it, it would be a dead snake.

351 WINCHESTER
May 28, 2009, 09:01 PM
I have seen cottonmouth's range in color from black to greenish blue. If it's got an arrowhead it's most likely posionous.

juk
May 30, 2009, 12:00 AM
I've seen both cotton mouths and copperheads with variations in color.
It's not uncommon on my lake to see a "breeding ball". upwards of a dozen snakes all intertwined and mingling in a ball shape.
The moccasins are (fairly) easy to distinguish when in the water. Other snakes try to swim away. Those devils swim after you. Actually had one bite me one time. (don't tell my momma!) I was fishing from a dock with my legs dangling. Darn thing came up under the dock and struck the heel of my shoe. I was pretty mad so I snagged him and threw him on shore. I'm sure he saw that rock coming...

countertop
May 30, 2009, 12:28 AM
Actually had one bite me one time.

What was that like???

How did the hospital treat you?? How long were you incapacitated? How big did your foot swell up?

juk
May 30, 2009, 03:23 AM
Just felt a "thump" thump on my shoe. When I went to pull my leg up, I could see what it was and could tell that it had gotten the very back corner of my shoe. I guess I should have said that it struck me, because I didn't get a fang in me. Although that was years ago, My momma would still whoop me and ground me from the lake :)

MCgunner
May 30, 2009, 10:43 AM
Ya know, as many cottonmouths as I've seen and are around, I don't know anyone that's been bit by one. I know of one guy that died from a rattler, had a dog killed by a rattler, had a cat I managed to get to the vet, half his leg rotted away, but he survived and healed. And, I know a guy I used to work with that was bitten by a rattler. Rattlers are NOT aggressive, but they will defend themselves and are often not seen until it's too late via the habitat they frequent. The guy that was bit said it stung like hell. It happened in his 16 acres behind his house near town and he got to the hospital post haste and it was already swollen twice its size when he got there. He got over it, but he said it was NOT a fun experience and it's not something I wish to try. My place is farther out of town, would probably not die, but I mean, I might wish I was before it was over. :what:

Seems like dogs are very susceptible to 'em, die pretty quick. Cats are more resilient, and humans fall somewhere in there with cats. Man, I wouldn't want my leg lookin' like that poor cat's leg, I can tell ya that! When she drug up here, the maggots were working on the dead flesh, it was awful. Vet cleaned it up, patched her up, and it took a couple of months before she got the bandages off and started feeling like herself.

I don't think cottonmouths are as bad as rattlers, but I ain't volunteering to be the guinea pig, I can tell ya that! They do have some vicious looking fangs in their mouth, just like a rattler. They're nasty snakes. I like fried rattler and they're easy to clean, but I'll take a pass on cottonmouth. :barf:

Cannonball888
May 30, 2009, 11:00 AM
ever shot a catfish?

Only if they're this size

http://www.worldofwallpapers.nuche.org/content/animal/fishes/1024/state-record-giant-catfish-backgrounds.jpg

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