[Philip Marlowe]

I believe:

...that point shooting is a valid concept (at close distances)

...that various anti-gun movements truly believe that increased gun control = less gun crime or fewer suicides (I know the facts, I'm speaking to their beliefs)

...that we are our own enemy when it comes to ammunition scarcity

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.

...that open carry only leads to more problems for gun owners (sorry folks, just how I feel)

Just curious what you believe that you cannot necessarily prove (or perhaps, it's highly debated).

I hope this can be a curteous debate, as there is no sarcasm intended in any of my answers - so please don't flame those who may oppose your view point...

As always, I'm curious to see what THR folks come up with.

[psyopspec]

The 12 gauge is the quintessential American bore size.

For a handgun, if it's a minimum 9mm and made by a reputable manufacturer, it'll do for defense. This is provided that the user is not the weakest link in the "system."

[TN_Mike]

I like those points.

[Loyalist Dave]

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.

Nope, shooting tin cans with a flintlock is the most fun you can have ever.

..., antigunners fear armed citizens, because they think they are smarter than us, and we're so stupid we might harm them. Those at the top KNOW the last possible "check and balance" against their soft-tyranny is the armed populace, just as they did when they wrote the Constitution.

LD

[Clifford]

Agreed.... But filling the cans with tannerite might be a blast! Pun intended.

[ambidextrous1]

I'll agree with four out of your five, Marlowe.

My contribution:

-shot placement is more important than caliber or power factor; a .22 short to the eye socket will end any disagreement you may have, no matter whose eye socket is the recipient.

-mind set and practice will extend your life more that all of the gadgets you may add to your preparedness.

[memphisjim]

- the guy who said a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush didnt have a nice shot gun

[mljdeckard]

I believe that women who wear tube tops should have to go through an application process.

I believe in eight of the ten commandments.

I believe in going to church every Sunday that there isn't a ball game on.

I believe that you should carry the biggest gun you can shoot well, and if that gun is smaller than a 9mm, you are making excuses.

[Ed Ames]

I'm not a huge fan of unsupported beliefs. I think they do a lot more harm than good as a rule.

[Jorg]

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.
Someone needs a 20 gauge shotgun and a box of clays. :)
(General Handgun discussion be damned)

[wrs840]

I believe in eight of the ten commandments.

I hope "covet" isn't one that you discount.

If you really think about it, it's the single biggest reason our country is going down the tubes, and currently very under-contemplated.


There's a reason it made the top ten.

IMO,
Les

[UKJ]

Right or wrong, these are my ill formed and ignorant beliefs -

- a .50 Desert Eagle is only useful as an improvised anchor

- people who own .50 Desert Eagles should be avoided

- European firearms are of superior manufacture

- the 1911 .45 ACP is not the be all and end all

- the Taurus Judge is almost as useless as the .50 Desert Eagle

- IPSA or whatever it's called nowadays is not a realistic form of combat handgun training

- If I'm ever attacked by falling plates and rogue bowling pins, I will retract the above statement

- machine gunning blocks of ice, old furniture and water melons with full auto AKs is the most fun you can have with your pants on

[austinco2]

mljdeckard: I'm really curious to know which two you discount? and why you believe the other eight?

[btg3]

Depends on which 2 he's caught violating, and he reserves the right to switch as needed. In other words, he does not recognize a higher authority that hands down commandments to mortals, and thus is his own authority... for a little while anyway.

[oneounceload]

The most important and only necessary handgun safety is the one between your ears

[Philip Marlowe]

oneounceload - I would submit that your 'belief' has likely been proven many times, and is something I totally agree with...

[wyocarp]

...that open carry only leads to more problems for gun owners (sorry folks, just how I feel)

How is that? I open carry every day. I haven't experienced the problems that you refer to.

[Wyo_F-A]

How is that? I open carry every day. I haven't experienced the problems that you refer to.

It is also Laramie. Thank goodness we live in a very firearm friendly area of the country where people grow up around guns and know how to use them. I have yet to attempt open carry anywhere in town, but spot many people who do.

Kudos to you for OC'ing every day.

[Philip Marlowe]

Wyocarp - I wish I could answer you, but as the title implies, 'I believe it, but can't prove it'...so it's really just a feeling on the matter.

That said, I've read a few articles (probably only a few over a couple of years) of instances where people have been hassled for open carry. http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-090429-concealed-carry,0,4370239.story There's one example - there are others.

I've also seen numerous posts here on THR about people being hassled by the police for open carry - only for the police to find out it is legal in some states (which is a good thing).

I just tend to think it makes people nervous...rightly or wrongly. Again, I can't prove it.

[Jim Watson]

...that point shooting is a valid concept (at close distances)

Agree, I do it when the time is right in one of those shooting sports.

...that various anti-gun movements truly believe that increased gun control = less gun crime or fewer suicides (I know the facts, I'm speaking to their beliefs)

I believe that some of the FOLLOWERS of those movements believe that, but the leadership either knows better or does not care in their quest for political power.

...that we are our own enemy when it comes to ammunition scarcity

Yup.

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.

Disagree. If I had not been introduced to competitive shooting within about two years of graduating college and getting a job to buy guns and ammo with, I would be playing golf by now instead of rolling cans and breaking rocks. Plinking was getting dull.

...that open carry only leads to more problems for gun owners (sorry folks, just how I feel)

Agree. Most citizens and cops do not understand that an honest man might want to carry a gun. They will freak out. Not legal in my jurisdiction, anyhow, except on my own property. Which is too small and urban for it to be much use.

[Zerodefect]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe:
"
...that point shooting is a valid concept (at close distances)In 90% of all CCW/Police shooting instances, its all you'll need or have time for.

...that various anti-gun movements truly believe that increased gun control = less gun crime or fewer suicides (I know the facts, I'm speaking to their beliefs)obviously bs. crime went down after CCW laws passed. suicide is selfish and stupid and has nothing to do with guns.

...that we are our own enemy when it comes to ammunition scarcityYup, you should have stocked up last year. WTSHTF or TEOWAKI happens, there isn't going to be any ammo around

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.bowling pins

...that open carry only leads to more problems for gun owners (sorry folks, just how I feel)true, open carry is stupid. If you can't carry legally, then carry concealed i................

Just curious what you believe that you cannot necessarily prove (or perhaps, it's highly debated)."



.40 and .45 work better than 9mm

AR15 with an Eotech beats the tar out of a shotgun

evolution has never happened (and why deos it allways pop up on a gun board?)

glock grips aren't really squarish at all

a good combat grip is on the front/back of the grip with the strong hand and the left and right sides are held with with the support hand (kinda). Basically a square anyway!

Even if .40 glocks kb or run weird with lights on, their still the second most reliable pistol out there, glock 9mm's are first.

I like turtles

most gun oils are just household mixes with a lable.

Stp,atf, and marvel mystery oil mixed right work better anyway.

Glocks don't have to stay stock to be reliable.

[Dimis]

i believe...

you should be able to own a firearm just for the fun of shooting (not all guns but certain models) without judgement of others

being a gun nut isnt a bad thing

more people should shoot than talk

that every able man should be a rifleman

[christcorp]

Obviously some similarities to others posted.

1. You do AIM a pistol or rifle, and you POINT a shotgun. (That doesn't mean the general area. You still need to know what you're doing. I cheat, I use a laser and point).

2. Shot PLACEMENT indeed is more important than caliber. And a 32acp or 380acp is totally sufficient for carrying purposes. And if you believe you HAVE to have a 9mm or bigger, then you're rationalizing.

3. If you can't hit the target and reduce the threat on you (Usually less than 25 feet), when carrying for self defense, with the 5,6,or 7 rounds that are in a standard hand gun, then you probably have no business with a gun in your hands. Needing a 15 round magazine is either a person's way of admitting they need more practice or they watch too many Die Hard and Lethal Weapon movies.

4. The best way to enforce our 2A rights and to ensure the survival of our rights; is to educate more people to appreciate guns, buy a gun, get a concealed weapon permit, join the NRA; and most importantly, let your congressman know. Make the 80 million gun owners in our country go up to 150 million. That will cover just about every eligible and legal adult. And get NRA membership up from 4 million to every person who owns a gun.

[mljdeckard]

(Can't you guys take a joke I stole from Steve Martin 30 years ago?)

[Zundfolge]

- the Taurus Judge is almost as useless as the .50 Desert Eagle
No sir, the Taurus Judge is MORE useless than the .50 Desert Eagle. The Desert Eagle is at least heavy enough to use as an effective bludgeon (and the aforementioned "improvised anchor"). Note Taurus is now making a CCW version (http://www.taurususa.com/2009newcatalog/?catalog_page=12) of the Judge *shudder*

[easyg]

I believe:

...that point shooting is a valid concept (at close distances)
Yes.

...that various anti-gun movements truly believe that increased gun control = less gun crime or fewer suicides (I know the facts, I'm speaking to their beliefs)
No.

...that we are our own enemy when it comes to ammunition scarcity
Yes.

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.
NO.
I think that dinner and a late night stroll with a pretty lady is much more fun than shooting tin cans with a .22.

...that open carry only leads to more problems for gun owners (sorry folks, just how I feel)
I disagree.

[ccsniper]

i believe that 9 rounds of .22 hitting their mark is better than 7 rounds of .45 missing the entire target
i believe 8mm mauser is the best all around hunting cartridge
i believe that people who do stupid things with guns on purpose deserve the darwin award (still dont like to hear about it though)
i believe that the age to buy handguns should be lowered to 18. (not really sure how that fits in here, im just adding it)

[austinco2]

mljdeckard: "(Can't you guys take a joke I stole from Steve Martin 30 years ago?)" sorry, didn't know it was a joke I was genuinely curious. It's hard to keep up with comedy from before you were born.(not ment to be offencive just factual (the age comment))

[jackstinson]

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.
Does someone need a girlfriend?

[Archie]

*A good hit with most anything beats a miss with most anything; AND, a good hit with a .45 beats a good hit with something less.

*A really powerful handgun is only useful for hunting or specific target competition.

*A decent mid caliber/power rifle beats a really powerful handgun for hunting, longer distance target shooting and many forms of self-defense.

*Being content is better than being rich.

*Being decent is better than being famous.

*The Bible doesn't have all the answers to every subject, but has all the answers for general living. And dying.

*I believe I've said enough.

[Loyalist Dave]

- European firearms are of superior manufacture

That's right, the Garand was outdone by several versions of the Mauser, the Steyr, the Mannlicher, the Lee-Enfield, the Moisin, and the Carcano in WWII!

OH WAIT! :D

Maybe ya might want to qualify that with a time reference? :cool:

LD

[UKJ]

So the Mauser, Moisons and Lee Enfields weren't as well built as the Garand?

Talk about what you believe versus what is true.

Anyways, here is my new one -

- any religious fanatic, whether they are Christian, Jewish or Isamlic should shut the hell up

- very religious people are not better then anyone else

- why are there so few athiests in prison?

[JHK94]

Seconded ^^^

[DickM]

I believe, but cannot prove, that the OP has been reading the book edited by John Brockman. Great book, BTW.

[Phydeaux642]

Anyways, here is my new one -

- any religious fanatic, whether they are Christian, Jewish or Isamlic should shut the hell up

- very religious people are not better then anyone else

- why are there so few athiests in prison?



Nothing at all to do with firearms. :rolleyes:

[Wildyams]

I believe...

...on a cold day, nothing warms the hands better than a hot shotgun barrel (unless there is a pretty lady around)

...there is nothing wrong with owning guns for the fun of shooting.

...we are not always right.

...someone needs to take Obama shooting. (no.. not shooting at him, shooting with him.)

...i should be studying for my final tomorrow instead of telling people what i believe.

...studying is no fun.

...i should be able to carry on campus.

...we should be able to drink before we can buy a gun.

...i need to get my CWP

I believe that is all for now.

[ccw_steve]

I think the issue you take with open carry is an interesting one at that.

Personally, I think that open carry is fine, and should be no big deal, however uneducated people could mistake open carry as a threat.

Especially those who are not used to being around guns (big cities anyone?).

The rest of your points...I agree 100%!

[ccw_steve]

I think the issue you take with open carry is an interesting one at that.

Personally, I think that open carry is fine, and should be no big deal, however uneducated people could mistake open carry as a threat.

Especially those who are not used to being around guns (big cities anyone?).

The rest of your points...I agree 100%!

[wrs840]

Anyways, here is my new one -

- any religious fanatic, whether they are Christian, Jewish or Isamlic should shut the hell up


And here's mine: Reflexive bashing without articulating an actual argument is a habit to rehabilitate from, or at minimum, best kept to oneself.

It's rudeness for self-entertainment.

Les

[ndh87]

- the 1911 .45 ACP is not the be all and end all
Blasphemy!

[cchris]

Can we steer away from directly talking about politics and/or religion?

Anyway...

i believe that the age to buy handguns should be lowered to 18. (not really sure how that fits in here, im just adding it)

In South Carolina, you can buy a handgun second-hand at age 18.

[kmrcstintn]

...5 rounds of .38 spl in a S&W 642 in your front pocket are better than 6 shots of .44 mag in a Ruger Super Blackhawk sitting at home in the safe ;)

this was brought up at hunting camp when one of my friends was going on and on that anything less than .40 (hence the mention of his .44 mag revolver) wasn't worth squat; about this time I calmly reach into my pocket and show him my S&W 642 :evil: and his dad pulls an older European .32 acp out of his back pocket ;)

right about that time the conversation changed to what deer were seen on the game camera before hunting season :p

recently talked to this friend and found out that he steered his stepdad into getting a lightweight Taurus snubby for CCW and to use his .44 mag for HD and hunting :evil:

[rainbowbob]

I believe in eight of the ten commandments.


I hope "covet" isn't one that you discount.

If I remeber, their are TWO "Do not covet" commandments: i.e., your neighbors goods, and your neighbors wife.

That leaves eight.

[Rockwell1]

that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.

Obviously written by a virgin:evil:

[DRYHUMOR]

I believe you have some valid points.

I've never shot a tin can with a .22though.

I believe that this nation has FAR too many laws on the books concerning weapons. Evidently, the criminal element has no regard for gun laws, or penalties. So why not consolidate down to 4 or 5, nationwide in every state.

If you look into it deep enough, I suspect that some where there is a law that if caught urinating on the sidewalk while CCW, it carries a far stiffer sentence than mearly urinating on the sidewalk.

I further venture that less access to guns does not lower the murder/suicide rates.

It is the specific groups that it may do something for; the law abiding, the underage, folks who have no interest in guns.

The criminals, are criminals, laws do not deter them. Gangbangers are/have become more prevalent, laws do not deter them.

[CDW4ME]

I have one story. My wife is pro gun and has a concealed carry permit. One day we walk into a country store and a guy is sitting having coffee wearing a large revolver, he looks like a farmer in his 50's. When we leave my wife says, "There is something wrong about that." I asked what. She said something like, "Why does he have to carry the gun where everyone can see it"? I said, "Maybe he is waiting on his concealed permit." Wife's basic reply, "Anyone walking around displaying a gun like that is one step from going off". I said, "I wearing a pistol too, just no one sees it." Didn't matter to her. Don't criticize my wife's opinion. I've posted this example in support of the original post. She didn't say anything or make any negative expressions in the store, but she saw the OC in a negative way. Keep in mind that she is pro gun and pro concealed carry.

[HarleyFixer]

I think that people who don't beleive in open carry need to get out major metro areas and look around rural areas and small towns in America. People who work outside open carry all the time without problems. People who are afraid of open carry are also afraid of small dogs, vampires, and zombies.

[CorpITGuy]

Good thread! I'm enjoying it. And in general, folks at THR really do take "the high road". This thread would already be locked on most gun sites because it would have devolved quickly...

Now, my top things I can't prove (about guns) but believe:

1. All federal gun laws are unconstitutional because they violate the TENTH amendment as well as the Second Amendment.
2. Most states gun laws are unconstitutional because they violate the Second Amendment.
3. Carrying a .22 is better than carrying nothing at all because it wasn't convenient to carry that .45. My primary carry is a .357, but my wife likes me in tight jeans. ;) There's no reason not to carry a .380 in that case.
4. Freedom makes people nervous. That's why people are nervous about OC. Just like free speech puts all of us on edge sometimes...
5. Some of the smartest, most gun-knowledgeable people I know ignore basic safety rules. STOP. THINK. LIVE.

[DesmoDucRob]

I believe...

Young people who legally open-carry are judged with more scrutiny.

When carrying a firearm, you should dress with consideration given to the population you incidentally represent.

It doesn't matter what color your reloading press is.

Criminals don't want to be shot at with either a 9mm OR a 45 acp.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

...that point shooting is a valid concept (at close distances)

Yep.

...that various anti-gun movements truly believe that increased gun control = less gun crime or fewer suicides (I know the facts, I'm speaking to their beliefs)

Well, yes, and no - mostly yes - most of the followers/rank-n-file members of the movements are air-headed enough to actually believe they're doing good. I believe *most* of the leaders know better, although there may be a few true believers.

...that we are our own enemy when it comes to ammunition scarcity

Of course, but what're gonna do?

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.

It's in the top 5, among those with pants ON.

...that open carry only leads to more problems for gun owners (sorry folks, just how I feel)

No, I feel exactly the opposite. The more people SEE the good guys - us - owning/using/showing guns, without negative consequences, the more acceptance of guns as a useful tool will occur, which is good for our rights. Shine your light, don't hide it, as we learned in vacation bible school.

Criminals don't want to be shot at with either a 9mm OR a 45 acp.

lol, or a .22, for that matter.


I'll add a couple:

Some "gun laws" are good for US, good for our rights, and good for society, including (a) very strict civil liability laws, if you allow a gun to fall into the hands of a child or criminal by negligently failing to secure it, (b) strict criminal liability laws for same, including manslaughter, if a death or serious injury occurs for negligently failing to secure, (c) instant background checks on all gun sales are a good idea, provided they stay instant, and provided that stringent safeguards are in place for Congress to oversee the BATFE computers and process to make sure no records are kept past the 90 day audit period, electronic or otherwise, and provided they are not worded so as to be any extra burden or liability on gun show promoters.

The '86 "moratorium" is a de facto ban, as it limits the right to KBA to the wealthy, and as such, is 100% unconstitutional (yes, I want an American 180 reeeeeeeal bad. :) ).

[HoosierQ]

I would agree that Open Carry causes problems for us. Can't prove it. But if I see somebody in the grocery store, who clearly isn't an LEO, with a big 6" revolver on his hip, I know, down in my brain that he is exercising a right that he has (assuming he is legal in doing so in the state). But, in my heart, I just gotta wonder what he is trying to prove. Now, me, understanding guns, I leave it alone, and think little of it.

Somebody who is scared of guns, but let's just say is not fundamentally anti-gun...just somebody who doesn't really get the whole thing...I think they are going to come away from such a thing really freaked out, things like "gun nut" rolling around in their head...and thus such a person might be lost forever into the camp of the anti's instead of remaining on the fence where we could maybe have some education or "conversion" if you will.

Now I am not talking about somebody out fly fishing or Alaska or something here, I am talking about the grocery store or the drugstore here in the midwest where concealed carry is legal with permit.

[Thaddeus Jones]

I believe shot placement trumps everything else.

I believe six shots is adequate for 99% of all situations.

I believe Smith & Wesson went out of business in 2001.

[mbt2001]

I Believe

1.) ...in the Categorical Imperative

2.) ...that in shoot outs you stay low and keep firing

3.) ...that ALL men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among those are LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

4.) ...that "as long as mankind shall continue to bestow more liberal applause on their destroyers than on their benefactors, the thirst of military glory will ever be the vice of the most exalted characters."

5.) ....that I will "... see my Pilot face to face when I have crossed the bar."

[Noxx]

Things I believe -

(I belive I may have posted this list before)

I believe every able bodied man should be responsible to know the following things, and that failure to do so is of great detriment to the overall health of our common fraternity...

-How to safely operate, break, and clean the basic types of firearms.

-How to operate and perform basic maintenance on an automobile, be it automatic or standard, including tree shift. The same for a motorcycle, a small watercraft, and a snowmobile.

-How to start a fire without modern tools.

-How to hold a damn door open.

-How to catch, clean and prepare a fish.

-The fundamental principles of the gasoline engine, electricity, indoor plumbing, and elevation of the toilet seat.

-How to saddle, care for, and ride a horse.

-The fundamentals of pugilism. In fact, if you've never been drilled in the nose, have someone do it for you today so you can associate yourself with the sensation.

-The broad range of basic first aid, from a splint to CPR to a chest wound.

-When to shut up. The less you say, the more you hear, and the more you hear, the better off you are.

In addition to these standards of manhood, I believe the following things to be true.

Every house should have a shotgun.

God created the seven iron to show his pity for golfers and our plight.

Carnivores are pets, herbivores are food. (Horses excepted)

Colt revolvers are shiny, but they turn the wrong way, and should be relegated to collectible status.

Paying property tax is just a polite way of saying you rent what you're supposed to own, from the government.

People with mustaches and no beards are either cops, creepy, or both.

People who don't like dogs are not to be trusted.

The Russian influx of 7.62x54R milsurps is part of a plot to destroy the American labor force through shoulder injury.

I don't care how exotic it is, if it makes the kitchen smell like feet, you probably shouldn't eat it.

Date a redhead, but marry a blond.

Middle management is the polite American version of welfare. They don't do, produce, or really affect anything, but they put on a tie and show up so we give them enough to live on.

Johnny Carson was better.

An education is a lot like a firearm, it's not worth much if you give it to an idiot.

People take themselves too seriously 90% of the time, and other people too seriously 99% of the time. Nobody's getting out alive, relax.

I believe someone should pay me for sitting around thinking up this stuff.


I believe I could do this for hours, but I should probably go change the oil in my bike.....

[mgregg85]

Hmm,

Well I believe that Taurus might as well make a CCW version of the Judge because its really only good for shooting at extreme close ranges(say under 7 yards) and that is the most common distance separating people in a shooting.

I believe the .30-06 is the ideal all-around rifle caliber for all North American big game and lots of African game too.

I believe Kel-Tec is one of the coolest American firearms manufacturers(innovation and originality) and that Ruger should come up with it's own designs.

I believe that manual safeties are pointless and completely unnecessary on double action only pistols with medium to heavy triggers(glock, XD, P3AT, etc).

I believe that the 1911 is perhaps the greatest .45 ACP handgun made and the Hi-Power is the best 9mm handgun made. I also believe that John Moses Browning is the greatest firearms designer to date.

[crushbup]

Obviously written by a virgin
Sure, sex is nice, but until you've tried it while shooting tin cans with a .22, you haven't lived.

[steveracer]

I just came back from a week in England, and I can tell you:

I believe that we've got it pretty good here.

I believe that there's a good way to do everything, and a bad
way to do everything, and that we do most things in the middle.

I believe that there's more to this life than we know about, and we'll NEVER know while we live.

That the HiPower is the greatest and best 9mm handgun on the planet, and the CZ-75 is the second greatest.

That S&W got revolvers right, and that Colt's got things almost right.

That we are never going to improve on the Model 10.

That if you own a .22, a 12 gauge, a .45, and a 30-06, you've got the bases all covered, and the rest is gravy.

That if those of us trained and experienced to carry a gun are actually an asset to the people around us, not a danger.

[Geronimo45]

Snakes should stay off of planes.

Shiny things are good.

Sex is overrated.

CSI Miami can be hilarious.

.32 ACP is great fun.

9mm weapons will be more reliable than .45 weapons due to the easier taper of the 9mm round.

There is less authoritative data on handguns than on any other type of firearm.

All that matters in shooting is that the bullet travels where you want it to go. How you manage that is up to you.

Nukes will be launched by somebody at live targets within 50 years.

[harmon rabb]

Sex is overrated.

No. It's not. Sorry. :)

[GoodKat]

Proof exists only in the realm of mathematics.

As for things that I cannot substantiate with logic and/or objective empirical evidence(assuming that my senses are indeed reliable and that other people exist in the same way I do) nothing I can think of. I made up my mind long ago that it was supremely arrogant and foolish to disagree with anyone without an objective reason, and no matter what you believe, someone will disagree with you. I actively purge all unsubstantiated beliefs and cognitive biases from my mind in order to be right as often as possible.

[vanguard]

- Any caliber will do the job if you shoot him in the chest, even a .22

- Honest men lie about their shooting accuracy and the fuel economy of their diesel trucks

- Lots of guys hate some guns simply because they can't afford them

- Grammar nazis are generally disliked but they perform a vital role on the internet

- Guns must be stored in holsters or gun safes. Loose guns get people shot by accident

- You don't have to carry *all* the time to find guns useful. Having it in the car, house, and when you're leaving your safe routine isn't so bad.

[Baneblade]

Unfortunately I have found the open carry issue to be mostly true... (location is very important)
"Officer, that person over there has a GUN!"
I look and respond, "okay." (Knowing I am about to get a complaint)
"Well, aren't you going to do something about it?!"
In my mind... don't get yourself fired, don't get yourself fired...
"I will go talk to them."
After which I have a 1/2 hour conversation with the retired New York firefighter who is enjoying his right to open carry in Arizona.

Unfortunately many people do not see those who open carry as honest law abiding rights exercising citizens.

As a LEO, do you know what I see when someone is open carrying? My backup. Those are the people I look to for help. And I know many of them would love nothing more than to stumble on a situation where I look at them and yell, "HELP!"

If you ever find yourself in that situation, try not to smile as you come to the officer's aid, it can be difficult to explain to an attorney.

By the way, revolvers draw much less negative attention than autos, and single action revolvers combined with a cowboy hat, boots, and excessively large belt buckle (based on my experience in Arizona) never draw negative attention.

[General Geoff]

Unfortunately I have found the open carry issue to be mostly true... (location is very important)
"Officer, that person over there has a GUN!"
I look and respond, "okay." (Knowing I am about to get a complaint)
"Well, aren't you going to do something about it?!"
In my mind... don't get yourself fired, don't get yourself fired...
"I will go talk to them."

What you should do:

"Officer, that person over there has a GUN!"
"I see."
"Well, aren't you going to do something about it?!"
"They're not breaking any laws so far as I can tell, so no."

[76shuvlinoff]

and the winner is!

People take themselves too seriously 90% of the time, and other people too seriously 99% of the time. Nobody's getting out alive, relax.


I believe the road is wide and there's an ass for every saddle...
...or is it a saddle for every ass??

I believe I forget things.

[Baneblade]

General, that is what I would like to do. Hense the "complaint" comment. The part where I should be able to say "They're not breaking any laws SO FAR AS I CAN TELL, so no" is where I get the complaint and get in trouble. The complaint is easy for my admin. Someone stated to me they believed a firearm carrying person was breaking a law, why didn't you investigate? I am obligated to based on state law, department policy, and the oath I took when I became a police officer.

I have had very bad luck on duty when it comes to explaining gun laws to those who think no one should have guns. I'm not necessarily talking about outright Anti, but people have made up their mind and are not interested in a knuckle dragging simpleton telling them otherwise. (they never bother to ask what kind of training, experience, and education we have)

Generally, the original reporting party is not happy until they see me contact the person with the gun. They want me to arrest the person. These are the same people at colleges, in municipal and county governments, in varying groups who absolutely believe in their Constitutional rights... but don't believe in someone elses.

So I go talk to the firearm carrying person. It has always been a friendly conversation. And the original reporter never sticks around to see what happens. They are content that this "criminal" is being dealt with and that they have fulfilled their civic duty.

I also have one big disadvantage in this situation. I have to be careful to keep my personal opinions and beliefs out of it. I have a job to do, a duty to fulfill, and my personal beliefs will get me into trouble... even when they are based on support of the Bill of Rights. 1st, 2nd, and 10th amendments in particular.

[shiftyer1]

I believe that plinkin at coffee cans with my grandfather was probably the most memerable part of my childhood.

I believe he really could light a match shooting from 100 yards. I just wish the wind would have let up just 1 time in all those years so he could have shown me. lol

I believe if you don't fight for your rights you will lose them.

I also believe that 99.9% of shooters are introduced to the sport by a family member, so try to include your sons, daughters, neices etc.

And I believe that polite society has ruined this country which is why oc scares people.

[CoRoMo]

I love this thread!


I believe:

...that we are our own enemy when it comes to ammunition scarcity compromises with the anti-freedom crowd on issues like...

permits for concealed carry
skill/achievement test for a concealed carry
disenfranchisement of felons
NICS checks at point of sale
fill in the blank with your favorite gun-control law

[loop]

Baneblade,

I sincerely apologize for the difficulty I may cause you, however I am always happy to chat with our local law enforcement officers so, please, say hi when that Kalifornian whines at you.

There are only three exits on I-40 between me and Kalifornia so I understand your dilemma.

I open carry every day. I would also be the first to act as backup with or without a request.

There is no way in h*** I would tolerate anyone opening fire on our guys.

The region has a lot to do with it. There isn't a lot of help out here. You can be hours away from backup and not even be that far away in terms of miles.

We live in the rural boonies, but we are fortunate enough to have a convenience store relatively nearby. The folks there are always happy to see me. They know that when I walk through the door there is a first line of defense.

When they run low on my favorite commodities and vices they put them in the office for me to ask for the next time I happen to stop by.

Local LE knows who I am, they know my car and my truck. Of the few times I've been stopped it has been to chat. I was stopped two weeks ago. We talked for about a half hour. On a clear and sunny day I drove away with a warning about turning on my windshield wipers. Guess he needed an excuse for BSing.

You're right, big old cowboy hat, turkey platter belt buckle and jeans tucked into the boots doesn't draw a look.

A 1911 and jeans over the boots makes Kalifornicators freak.

There have been many times I've heard a young one say "momma, is that a real cowboy?" Only to see her clutch her child to her side and whisper something to them. My answer is "I'm not a cowboy. I'm a wrangler. Wranglers work with horses. I teach cowboys' horses to do their job."

I admit, I do not understand why anyone would want to try and hide the fact they are carrying a gun, unless it is their backup gun. I want the bad guys to know that as long as I am standing there is no easy target.

Make me the first target. That's OK, I've lived a long life. If I am the first target the last one comes up at least one body less.

I thank you for your service.

I will be at your service should the occasion arise.

[BADSBSNF81]

I know for a fact that point shooting is viable.

Anti-gunners - I know for a fact that some anti-gunners sincerely believe that if there were no guns there would be less crime. I also know for a fact that some believe that only those in power should have any type of firearm and "in power" does not equate to law enforcement or military.

Facts - Ammunition scarcity is a combination of folks not trusting the sitting President/Democratic party, the on going war, priority of production capacity of the makers and less than ethical retailers who make it "appear" that ammunition is scarce in their shop so they can make a profit.

Plinking - It is not the most fun you can have, but, it rates a place in my top 10.


Open carry - Fact - merely exercising your right to open caryy does not cause a problem Uneducated people and criminals are the problem.

Criminals - Fact - None of the ones I've met wanted to get shot, hit, cuffed, stabbed or tazed.

I believe that there are enough laws regarding firearms already in place. Enforce what's on the books for 10 years then ask me again.
I believe that everyone wants to go to heaven, but, most don't want to die to achieve that goal.

[RobMoore]

I believe - that unsighted shooting isn't any faster than sighted shooting, and that you don't get the instant feedback of being able to call your shots. By only looking at the target, imperfections in your grip/aim aren't readily apparent, and the only feedback you have in order to make corrections is your target's continued ability to return fire. At least by having your sights in your eyeline, you can see if you're hitting where you want to be.

[SureThing]

I believe....

Excluding slavery, the nation would be better off today had the South won the war of Northern Aggression...AKA The Civil War.

[.38 Special]

"that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever."
Obviously written by a virgin

Or a man that's been married for a long time.

I believe that point shooting is a non-issue. If you want to demonstrate your bravery, you'll advocate for hip shooting!

[Ala Dan]

-that selling alcohol in establishments that are open 24/7, in a state
that allows carry into bars; is only inviting trouble~! ;)

[crebralfix]

I believe that 90% of the American population has no idea what liberty means. They have no idea what living in liberty means either.

[GoodKat]

I do not understand why anyone would want to try and hide the fact they are carrying a gun, unless it is their backup gun.
Not that I would actually do this, but if I were planning to rob a store, and I saw you standing in there with your gun on your side, I would probably either not rob the store, or walk up behind you and shoot you in the back of the head. Not letting anyone know about my gun means I can shoot the robber in the back.

[Hungry Seagull]

Actually no smiling here if a LEO calls for offensive help from a CCW.

That is actually a legal means of drawing and holding perp at gunpoint or wading into a gunfight to protect the LEO if possible. There are just so many Concealed in my area that LEO's are effectively multiplied into a Platoon or Company at a moment's notice from two officers who yelled HELP!

Fangs come out and I get predatory, no smiling here. There is meat going to the table yah?

The only thing I will need is the statement from LEO who asked for backup.

[Sir_William1]

I believe In Aleins.
I believe Aleins are living among us.
I believe To many people over think these threads.
I believe Stupid People should keep their Opinions to Themsevles.
I believe anyone who trys to push their Belielfs and or likes to bash others ON the Internet for whatever reason should have their Fingers removed, ( but not their Trigger finger).
I believe Opinions are Just That, and Should be Keep to ones self.
I believe In Myself.

[.38 Special]

I believe in spell checkers.

Especially when posting about how stupid other people are.

Hope I get to keep my fingers!

[rainbowbob]

Excluding slavery, the nation would be better off today had the South won the...The Civil War.

I believe...

That is like the old joke about the reporter asking at Ford's Theatre, "Other than that, did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln?"

I believe there were 7 misspelled words in post #77 (good call, .38).

[wyocarp]

- a .50 Desert Eagle is only useful as an improvised anchor

Wow, now that is a statement that I could prove wrong.

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Wranglers carry 1911s, not SA Colts? Interesting.... :)

Heck of a post, Sir William - weird to say the least. I'm going to re-arrange, correct spelling errors, label the sentences, and eliminate part of the quote:

(1) I believe In Aliens.
(2) I believe Aliens are living among us.

(3) I believe To many people over think these threads.

(4) I believe Stupid People should keep their Opinions to Themsevles.
(5) I believe Opinions are Just That, and Should be Keep to ones self.
(6) I believe anyone who trys to push their Beliefs and or likes to bash others ON the Internet for whatever reason should have their Fingers removed, (but not their Trigger finger).

Well for starters, #4 is subsumed by #5. In other words, #5 says ALL people should keep their opinions to themselves, which would include stupid people, which makes statement #4 superfluous (though congruent).

You must consider #1 and #2 to be FACT, not opinion, or you wouldn't have shared them (see #4 and #5). Interesting, in light of the fact that YOU presented them as opinions by prefacing them with "I believe", not asserting them as facts.

As for #3, no we wouldn't want anyone "overthinking" an allegation of aliens living among, now would we? That's just hyper-anal silliness!

As for #6, my fingers would be removed then under your regime, since I duly bash any and all that believe that aliens live among us, as they richly deserve. I will thank you however, for letting me keep my trigger finger. Have a nice day. :)

[mordechaianiliewicz]

I believe that "live free or die" is a much more profound statement and ethos than most people give it credit for.

I believe that everyone should start shooting with a .22 rifle and/or pistol.

I believe that 9mm Luger is the minimum defensive pistol round, and .223 is the minimum rifle round. Minimum is still quite adequate.

I believe a milsurp should "work" and be reasonably accurate and reliable because you never know when you'll have to fight for your life, or what you'll have to use

(Along that same vein) I believe that everyone should learn some kind of martial art.

I believe that in the same vein, everyone should learn how to use bladed/blunt edged, tipped weapons.

I believe that though men are the primary "defenders" of our species, women are neither weak, nor should they be treated as if they can't do things for themselves.

I believe that anyone who puts something related to guns is "the funnest thing you can do" as number 1 thing needs to have sex. Badly. And if you haven't changed your opinion, you were doing something wrong.

I believe that when you find a good woman, you can do just about anything (I ripped that one from Kaiser Wilhelm, but what can I say? He was right).

I believe Barack Obama is a socialist. In beliefs if not deeds. (just wait)

I believe that when you die, your life goes on..... I just don't know how, where, or what.

I believe that we will have another civil war in the United States, and I believe it will be in my lifetime.... that doesn't necessarily mean it will be as destructive as the last one, but I'm virtually certain of it

I believe that as bad as it will be for us, Europe will be worse off for the most part

I believe I've belted off enough of these for one day......

[KarenTOC]

Johnny Carson was better. But Jack Paar was the best :)

I believe... that calling a cartridge a bullet is no worse than referring to your car as your wheels.

Synecdoche, n: a figure of speech in which a part is used to represent the whole, the whole for a part, the specific for the general, the general for the specific, or the material for the thing made from it. Considered by some to be a form of metonymy. Adjective: synecdochic or synecdochal.

Metonymy, n: A figure of speech in which one word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated (such as "crown" for "royalty"). Metonymy is also the rhetorical strategy of describing something indirectly by referring to things around it, such as describing someone's clothing to characterize the individual. Adjective: metonymic.

And all this time you thought it was ignorance!

:D

[7.5-Swiss]

Here's one that would make heads explode over at ar15.com..

I believe....

That my aimpoint clone holds zero, is pretty tough, and works perfectly for what I use it for.

[Snarlingiron]

I believe John Moses Browning was pretty damn smart.

I believe Mikhail Kalashnikov is too.

Gaston Glock too.

I believe the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about.

I believe that all men are cremated equal.

I believe O.J. did it.

I believe that 9mm is adequate.

I believe that more rounds are better.

I believe that most conflicts in North America started because somebody showed up to take somebody else's guns. (Hey, Pres. Obama, are you listening?)

I believe that anyone who puts something related to guns is "the funnest thing you can do" as number 1 thing needs to have sex. Badly.

Dude, don't you mean they badly need to have sex? I mean having sex badly isn't really cool.:D

Fun Thread!

[earlthegoat2]

I believe a 40 recoils harder than a 45.

[BlogApostille]

I've added this article to the "Argument for the existence of God" category. I feel there is a deeper level category that it also belongs in, but I can't figure out which one it might be. Is there one that is sort of like "Semantic arguments"? "Burden of proof shifting"? --Kazim 04:09, 31 August 2006 (MST):neener:

Like Pascal's Wager, this doesn't seem to be an argument for God's existence as much as it's an argument for belief. I think the distinction is notable, but not enough to remove them from the 'for existence' category. The subcat you're suggesting is one I've tried to think of several times, I just haven't come up with a brief, descriptive label that I like. "Arguments for belief" is my current preference, so I added that subcat and included this article and the Pascal's wager article. -- Sans Deity 06:57, 31 August 2006 (MST) :cuss:

[Hungry Seagull]

I believe I need the ability to have peace in life. Not to worry about things I cannot change. But to worry about things that can be done today that will make tomorrow better. With or without me.

[verdun59]

I'm not as concerned about the Aleins (sic) as our own politicians.

[onlymeself]

I believe that every kid should learn gun safety, whether there is a gun in the home or not.

I believe in taking kids out shooting (every weekend is best) it keeps them off drugs, out of trouble, teaches respect for guns, and they'll never go hungry.

I believe in everyones right to whatever religion they want and can afford, just like they should believe in my right to whatever weapon I want and can afford.

I believe anyone receiving public assistance (whatever for) should have a drug test and be subject to random testing. Just like every employer does. Don't pass or refuse no more assistance for you.

I believe that sometime the people we thought would always have are backs don't, and people we never thought would, do.

I believe people that think guns are better than sex aren't doing it right. And if they can't get sex right, maybe they should rethink guns.

[ACBMWM3]

...that open carry only leads to more problems for gun owners

agreed, however I open carry for a few reasons.
1. I just find it easier and more comfortable as IWB just are not to comfy on me.
2. I prefer injection molded (kydex) holsters over all.
3. Maybe when people see that if I walk into a store and DON'T rob it, maybe the worlds not such a bad place after-all.

[Guy de Loimbard]

I disagree with your statement on open carry. The weather's been nice here lately, so I've taken to doing just that when a jacket is not required to keep warm/keep the wind off. I've not yet received any negative response when doing so. My take on it is, since it's legal in my state, why not? If people see a man with a gun in a holster on his belt walk into a store, find what he wants, pay for his merchandise and leave without incident maybe they will realize that gun owners aren't all violence-crazed. I don't understand why some people who only carry concealed like to start arguments with this point.

[1SOW]

The Taurus Judge compares with the Supreme Court Judge nominee: Ugly and a bad idea.

[federalfarmer]

I beleive a .45 is the best handgun caliber and a 1911 is the best handgun.
I beleive in long action rifle calibers.
I beleive you should have thousands of rounds loaded ammo.
I beleive you do not need most modern amenities.

I beleive the people on this forum know more about firearms then the guy at the local gun emporium!! :D

[.38 Special]

I believe in I before E except after C.

:neener:

[Rockwell1]

I believe that every home in America should have at least one gun.

I believe that if you're only going to have one gun it should be a 1911.

I believe that if you're going to have more than one gun the other one should be a CZ

I believe Suzanna Gratia Hupp would make a hell of a good president.

I believe Sarah Palin is a Suzanna Hupp wanna be.

I believe that no one goes to the Father but by the Son.

I believe time is running out for America

Finally, I believe Taylor Dupriest was framed

[jackstinson]

The Earth is flat.
Monsters live under your bed.
2 + 2 = 3
The Sun and all planets revolve around the Earth.
Leeches will cure what ails you.
Witches float.
And a myriad of other silly things people have believed but couldn't prove......mostly because they were wrong.

[Double Naught Spy]

I believe that a lot of gun owners are delusional in their self perceptions of speed, accuracy, and being wolves.

I believe that owning a gun makes you "prepared" for a fight like owning a fire extinguisher makes you "prepared" for a fire.

I believe the death penalty is a good thing, even if it doesn't actually reduce crime.

[verdun59]

It sure reduces crime from the person that is put to death ++

[UKJ]

- I believe that the death penalty is state sponsored murder

- I believe that the death penalty doesn't reduce crime significantly and that societies with the death penalty are inherently violent

- I believe that I cannot trust the 'powers that be' with the death penalty as long as one innocent man is framed for murder

- I believe that the media and politicians are more concerned with ascertaining blame then coming up with solutions to a problem

- I believe I keep veering off the subject when I should be talking about guns

- I too believe that the members of this forum know significantly more then most gun shop owners

[mordechaianiliewicz]

I believe that governments cannot ever be trusted (well the OP said things you can't prove)

I believe that people who are fanatic about the 1911 platform need to expand their horizons a little.

I believe the AR-15 is an awesome platform.

I believe the AK is also an awesome platform.

[CCWB]

In the words of Larry the Cable Guy ''I believe, sometimes you gotta wreck the truck, to get money for the truck payment''

I believe but can't prove:

We all should listen more and talk less.

Comprehension is more important than reaction.

Shoot first, ask later!

Lethal force is a life or death choice, and I prefer to live.

That chick just flashed me.

Beer goggles is a valid excuse to bed down.

[TimboKhan]

I truly believe that many non-shooters feel like you can shoot a gun out of an attackers hand with little or no training.

[BK]

Most of the deer know what tag is in my pocket.

[tipoc]

...that shooting tin cans with a .22 is the most fun you can have, ever.

Over 4 decades I've had the privilege of enjoying the intimate embraces of a number of women. Should any one of them call and request an encore no tin can and any firearm would distract me nor hinder my forward momentum.

A person has to have priorities.

A person needs to know their limitations.

Always wear shoes you can run in.

tipoc

[chriske]

Truly intelligent etxra-terrestrial life forms will always avoid contact with mankind at all cost

..oopps : eXTra, of course