what could make my 10/22 more accurate than this?


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FlyinBryan
May 27, 2009, 09:42 PM
right now my benchrest 22 is a 10/22 with a green mountain target barrel.

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/Picture227.jpg

its fairly accurate and lots of fun, but ive seen others that look similar that will consistantly shoot 1/4" -3/8".

mine is more like 1/2" @ 50yds.

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/1022pic1.jpg
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/1022pic2.jpg
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/1022pic3.jpg
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv162/flyinbryan_photos/1022pic4.jpg

my question is, what are those guys using?

im familiar with clark custom, voltsquartsen, and shaw barrels, but could i expect better from them? and if not, what brands are those super accurate guys using. (i suppose i coulda asked but didnt)

these guys were shooting groups the size of plain m&m's, and as you can see, mine are closer to the peanut kind.

the green mountain im shooting now was about 100 bux, but i wouldnt mind having a premium brand, and since its really a benchrest rifle im not too worried about the weight.

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10-Ring
May 27, 2009, 09:46 PM
A buddy has almost $2k into his. First time I saw him shoot it, it was like he missed the other shots...the only thing still Ruger is the receiver
But $2k? Sorry, not me.
I just wanna make cans dance! ;)

P.B.Walsh
May 27, 2009, 09:49 PM
2k....!.!!!!!!! on a 22....!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!

FlyinBryan
May 27, 2009, 10:02 PM
ya, i cant see putting 2k into one for what i want, but i could see maybe 250 or 3.

what im wondering is will i see improvement by going with a clark or a voltsquartsen.

its all stock other than the barrel, i suppose i could pick up a match trigger and hammer and see what that would do.

First time I saw him shoot it, it was like he missed the other shots...

thats what i was seeing from these guys. i shoulda asked what they were using, but i didnt wanna look like a nube.

lol, i shoulda just looked like one.

i did notice that the barrels they were using were fluted but not normally, but more like a spiral cut (dont know what its called.)

browningguy
May 27, 2009, 10:23 PM
Do the trigger first, that can make quite a big difference. And don't forget to practice a lot, 1/4" groups at 50 yards requires technique as well as equipment. Then make sure you try a couple of different match ammo types to find the one your rifle really likes.

BornAgainBullseye
May 27, 2009, 10:26 PM
I would go with a target hammer only! Try looking into the different ways to "bed" the action into the stock. Really tricky and different on a 10/22 but you will get less stringing in your groups. Check and recheck your v block use a 1/4" drive torque wrench and make sure they are at spec which I cannot recall. I'm sure sombody here knows it off the top of their head. I'd try to get as much out of your barrel before scrapping it. But if you are determined to can it P.M me and ill but it from ya. I got clover leaf .5" groups from my butler creek stainless barrel before I sold it to a friend. I now have a thin 16 inch cut and 11 degree crowned ruger barrel that came on the gun. Shooting .6 groups with green tags at 50 yards in the synthetic ruger stock. So it just takes some attention in the right places and a steady trigger pull to shoot micro groups. Good luck.

flipajig
May 27, 2009, 11:23 PM
your groops looks like a stock problem. also a good trigger is just as important as the barrel one thought is check out to see what a gun smith would work your trigger over for you. I had my encor worked on and it only cost my fourty bucks. If your interested in selling your barrel pm me and its sold.

Ratshooter
May 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
Make sure your barrel is really clean.

Lose the bi-pod and sand bag your rifle front and back.

It might be hard to do right now but find as many different kinds of 22 ammo as you can and experiment with all of it. I did that myself a long time ago. It was a real eye opener about 22s and the ammo they like.

After this you can start checking and making changes to the gun. It wont hurt to check the action screws also.

Fumbler
May 27, 2009, 11:48 PM
To make your 10/22 more accurate, you could:

-Never post your average group. Only post your best groups.

-Ditch the Hogue for a laminate stock or high quality synthetic

-Bed the action and first couple inches of the barrel, float the rest of the barrel.

-Never remove the barrel from the action once you've bedded the stock

-Headspace the bolt

-Add a set screw to the rear of the reciever that presses the trigger group forward to remove any play. Do this before bedding and make sure you get some good bedding in behind the trigger guard

-Shoot it a lot. The bolt seems to settle in as the parts wear making it return to battery more consistently. Shoot a lot of different ammo to try and find the best ones. You might be surprised at what shoots well.

Some of those things are pure speculation, but I figure removing all variables will at least not hurt accuracy.
I gave up on accurizing my 10/22 a long time ago but I still remember a thing or two about accurizing them. I got mine just as a plinker and it's much more fun plinking with a light rifle.

Dirtpile
May 27, 2009, 11:59 PM
I agree, lose the bi-pod. They stress the stock and on a synthetic can make the stock touch the barrel.
You may want to bed the action and verify that the barrel is free floating too.
If that doesn't help then try bedding the barrel too. It should take anything more than a hard rubber pad under the barrel near the end of the foreend.
And the trigger is an upgrade you won't regret. If you don't mind spending a bit look at the Kidd trigger. You can order them with a pull as light as 6oz but unless this is strictly a benchrest gun you may want to go a little heavier. Even the heaviest (2.5lbs) is a tremendous upgrade from the stock trigger.

FlyinBryan
May 28, 2009, 12:04 AM
Never post your average group. Only post your best groups

lol, no doubt. actually those 4 were some of the better ones i shot that day. i shot 7 groups in all and im pretty sure those 4 were the best ones. there might have been one close to, or better than one of those that you can count the holes on.

Ditch the Hogue for a laminate stock or high quality synthetic

this is a good idea i think. the super accurate guys there were all shooting laminates now that yiou mention it.

Check and recheck your v block use a 1/4" drive torque wrench and make sure they are at spec

i can do this and its a great point.

i just stabbed the barrel and cranked down the 2 bolts. very good point.

i also have a nephew who said he has a voltsquarten hammer and trigger set he will just give me. he said its new in the package with instructions.

im planning on getting it shooting a little better and doing gvnwst's rimfire match. even though those cz and target rifle guys will smoke me, it will be fun.

torpedoman
May 28, 2009, 12:06 AM
bedding will fix the vertical stringing. use a good rest under the magazine of the 10-22 when shooting groups. A precision chambered barrel is needed if you gun will eject unfired rounds when cycled by hand it is not a precision chamber.

FlyinBryan
May 28, 2009, 12:21 AM
use a good rest under the magazine of the 10-22 when shooting groups

ya, im gonna lose the bipod and see what happens

A precision chambered barrel is needed if you gun will eject unfired rounds when cycled by hand it is not a precision chamber.

yes, its a really tight little chamber.

it wont eject by hand, if it goes in, it gets shot out.

here lately the range master comes out with the loud speaker and it sounds like this.

"cease fire, cease fire!!!!! shooters unload and lock all actions!!!! and bryan!!!! fire your last shot!!!!!!!"

"ok, lines safe to check and post targets!!!!!!!!"

Uncle Mike
May 28, 2009, 12:23 AM
Well, you know what they say... the bigger or more expensive looking your rifle is, the bigger your gun looks!:neener:

You have a pretty good rig there... try some high end ammo, say Eley EPS-

If it wont shoot with EPS then you may want to start saving some money.

I have a CZ that will put 5 shots into 3/8" at 50y, using the Eley Match EPS-
Yeah... Off the bags! no wind, no thermals.....2 shots of scotch.

WNTFW
May 28, 2009, 12:24 AM
Since your stringing is mostly vertical look at some technique issues in no particular order. It may not be any 1 thing but a combo of them. It could still be a rifle issue. Here are some items to consider:

1. Is your breating consistent - Are you shooting with the same amount of air in your lungs?

2. Your bipod should not be loaded fully forward or rearward. They drag on some surfaces during recoil.

3. Is your seating position OK? An adjustable seat height may help you.

4. Cheek weld

5. Put something more definite to aim at.

I find I do better prone. I don't have a good bench technique. That is partly due to most ranges I go to have no or funky benches.

Dimis
May 28, 2009, 12:37 AM
it may not just be the barrel GM is a good barrel so i cant discount that its capable
have you done any action work trigger work?
i can suggest tony kid from Kidd Customs
http://www.coolguyguns.com/
he also has barrels
my Butler Creek 20 inch is shooting descent groups at 50 about 1/2 inch or so and thats a "cheap" replacement

FlyinBryan
May 28, 2009, 12:40 AM
I have a CZ that will put 5 shots into 3/8" at 50y, using the Eley Match EPS-
Yeah... Off the bags! no wind, no thermals.....2 shots of scotch.

that last part almost got me choked on a piece of chick-o-stick.

You have a pretty good rig there... try some high end ammo, say Eley EPS-

lol, the groups i posted were shot with winchester wildcat. 20 bux a brick of 500 at bass pro shops.

yes i should try some good ammo.

actually i did try some match stuff that a friend gave me but i cant remember what it was. it was in a baby blue box, but i dont remember it really being any better.

Is your breating consistent
lol, probably not, good point.

Since your stringing is mostly vertical look at some technique issues in no particular order.

actually, the whole of your post is probably a good place to look.

to be perfectly honest, the deliberate areas of my target shooting habits are as follows.

step 1. try to put the reticles on target.

squeeze the trigger while attempting step 1.

in other words, i am sure that i need to do something about my technique (like get one, lol)

i should do a search or a thread on precision shooting techniques.

Clifford
May 28, 2009, 12:56 AM
All this talk of trigger control, beding barrels and ammo is BS. EVERYONE knows an accurate gun has to have a red dot laser, halo sight, folding telescopic stock, 30+ round mag, muzzle brake, bayonet lug, pistol grip, light mount and a single point sling! Also to shoot it correctly you must have the tactical pants and vest. Take care of that and your groups will shrink instantly.
:evil::D:evil::D

jerkface11
May 28, 2009, 01:03 AM
You're getting MOA out of a 10/22 you're already ahead of the curve.

matai
May 28, 2009, 01:05 AM
Go here too:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

lvcat2004
May 28, 2009, 01:14 AM
I would try cheap stuff before spending a lot of money on uh...10/22. I probably have put in a few hundred, but it's a 22....once I started shooting 17 HMR, I kind of lost interest, not to mention my 308, 223, etc....

If someone's gonna "give" you some Volts trigger group, that would probably help. I would pick up some better ammo....some ammo fires supersonic and loses stability when it becomes subsonic, although I wonder if that would happen at short distance that you are shooting....

then shoot A LOT and work on breathing. The grouping does separte vertically on your pics and that makes me wonder about breathing/technique. Shoot a LOT and figure out if you can find a pattern between your breathing and grouping.

Uncle Mike
May 28, 2009, 01:20 AM
Clifford, you forgot the 1-88X78mm fancy pants busy reticle, super tall micro engraved resettable double turn target sniper turrets, double thick wall 1 piece nasa coated tube with only the finest swiss made glass, scope!

:neener:

FlyinBryan
May 28, 2009, 01:43 AM
If you're directing that comment at me because I posted a group I shot you're wrong in thinking it's not an average group. I have a bunch of targets actually.

hey king, he was talking to me (or at least i think he was, lol, i answered him to it in post #12. i checked out your target and that is amazing for a factory rifle. no doubt if i put my factory barrel back on, and tried to match it i wouldnt stand a chance. i think he was talking about mine because mine should really be better for a 7lb target barrel.


You're getting MOA out of a 10/22 you're already ahead of the curve.

you wouldnt believe the groups these guys at the range were shooting with their 10/22s.

lol, some of their five shot groups actually looked like 1 shot.

i mean an almost perfectly round hole for 5 shots. i couldnt believe it.

i didnt know it was even possible. i had to spy on them to see if they were pulling my leg.

Fumbler
May 28, 2009, 10:22 AM
hey king, he was talking to me

Yeah, King I was talking to FlyinBryan.
It's just a little humor ;)

xbox360
May 28, 2009, 10:30 AM
I wouldnt worry about it :cool: those are great shots, I dont think a target is 2mm apart. if you can shoot under 3inchs your good :cool: I dont get into the mm's as long as my bullets dont spread past 3 inchs apart I am good.

jerkface11
May 28, 2009, 11:00 AM
you wouldnt believe the groups these guys at the range were shooting with their 10/22s

They probably spent more on them than I spent on my bench rifle though.

Dimis
May 28, 2009, 11:04 AM
you can also ask the people at www.rimfirecentral.com
they have alot of advice on makeing the 10/22 accurate

as for the .22 rifles not being worth the money i have 300 invested in mine above the 198 i spent on the rifle why?
because thats the rifle i shoot most and thats the rifle i enjoy so why not plunk a little money on it

jerkface11
May 28, 2009, 11:18 AM
Dimis i wouldn't say $500 is too much to spend. I have however seen what some people are willing to spend on a 10/22 and it's WAY more than $500.

ArmedBear
May 28, 2009, 02:29 PM
They probably spent more on them than I spent on my bench rifle though.

Ding ding ding!

To get the gun to shoot a little better, you will spend a LOT more. The law of diminishing marginal rate of returns applies here.

Work on the trigger, enjoy the gun.

Use all that money to buy a second gun, not to make your gun shoot slightly smaller groups (with expensive ammo).

Buying a bolt rifle that shoots better won't cost more than throwing more money at the 10/22, and then you'll have a high-end, very accurate rifle when you want it AND your fun 10/22.

Dookie
May 28, 2009, 04:32 PM
I like how some of you are telling us how to spend out money. I have embarrassed many of you HMR, 223, 308, 22 Match shooters with my 10/22 at 50 yards. It is easy to do and you can do it fairly cheaply.

the action and barrel must be solidly supported. The hogue stock is nice for packing and shooting, very comfortable to hold, but it is not in any way a target stock. To much flex. You can use your factory stock and modify it on the cheap by adding a wider forearm and pistol grip, installing a cheek piece helps also. Sanding out the barrel chamber for a wider barrel and giving it a full bedding job. You don't need to ad a rear take down screw. If you don't like doing the work yourself, just find a good laminate stock you like and buy it.
Buy a decent trigger, hammer and sear. You can modify your factory group or add new parts, even a complete housing.

Lots of options to choose from, don't spend your money the second you see something shiny. Many people spend craploads of money on parts they don't need because they are trying to cover a problem rather than fix it.

Looking at your groups, your stock is the biggest issue, with a better trigger being second.

Most of all, enjoy the Ruger, it's fun and incredibly addicting.

BornAgainBullseye
May 28, 2009, 07:51 PM
Yes subsonic is great for target work as it never has to from supersonic to transonic..... It is already transonic! If I had a million dollars I'd try a 1:9" twist barrel and a 60 grain subsonic just for fun. I'm sure somebody here has tried it. My rifle shoots MOLR with the Remington subsonic and is nice and quiet

Dimis
May 28, 2009, 11:56 PM
yea the 500 includes the scope and mounts and alot of extras so i guess im not doing too bad

benzy2
May 29, 2009, 12:55 AM
As said there are a few things that come to mind right away.

The vertical stringing would make me think trigger or bipod. I would ditch the bipod and shoot off a good rest with a good rear bag. Its amazing what the rest and bags do for you. Next would be to find the lightest trigger you can find. The aftermarket hammers are ok but still heavy for a bench only rifle. I have one and it is a HUGE improvement over stock but still not what a good bench trigger would be.

From there the next thing I thought was Hogue stock has to go. They aren't terrible stocks and I don't mean much disrespect but they are soft and flex. For group size that isn't what you want. Either a solid synthetic (which good ones are EXPENSIVE) or a laminate shaped to ride bags would be a good change. This gets back to the good rest/bags comment. When you have a decently designed stock and a good rest things become much easier. Once you get a solid stock bed it or have it bedded.

The barrel is ok but I doubt it is going to shoot 1/2 MOA. I have one and it certainly is fun. Its hard to get that accurate for $100. Still I would go out and try a bunch of different ammo. Generally the more you spend the better. People rarely shoot amazing groups consistently with cheap ammo. Too many variations in the rounds themselves to shoot top groups.

From there you can do things like truing the bolt and chamber, threading the barrel to the receiver, pinning the firing pin, etc to get every last drop of accuracy out of the thing but the big points I would work on are the rest, the rest(meant it a second time as I think its that important), the ammo (probably just as important as the rest) the stock, and the trigger.

rondog
May 29, 2009, 01:40 AM
Wow! You guys are serious about this stuff! If I could shoot groups like the ones in the OP, I'd be so thrilled I'd probably wet myself. I can't even see well enough to do that kind of shooting. Maybe I should get out more....

FlyinBryan
May 29, 2009, 10:43 AM
The vertical stringing would make me think trigger or bipod. I would ditch the bipod and shoot off a good rest with a good rear bag. Its amazing what the rest and bags do for you.

ya, they always stretch vertically. im going to try without the bipod, and with some trigger work and see what happens. also will try a few different ammo brands this weekend.

its so lose, if i could just cut the vertical into half of what the horizontal is id be thrilled.

lol, thx rondog for the compliments.

do yourself the favor i wish id done for myself:

if you ever see a guy at the range with a heavy spiral fluted barrel and a scope as long as the rifle, and he laughs histerically after each shot, run the othe way and absolutly DO NOT look at his targets!!!!!!

lol, ignorance is bliss.

Clint C
June 27, 2009, 11:04 AM
FlyinBryan, those are some great groups you posted there. There are a lot of things you can do to improve your groups just with messing with your ammo. If I am looking for super tight groups I well take a rim gage and measure the rims of my ammo. You can also wiegh them. Long story short you want your ammo to be as consistant as possible. It works trust me.

rangerruck
June 27, 2009, 01:02 PM
number one; TRIGGER JOB!!!!! either do it yourself fantastically, or send it off. Secondly, freefloat that bbl, wich is hard to do with a overmolded stock. so start hand sanding out that stock. 3rd, send of your rifle to Randy at CPC, and have him true up the action/boltface/chamber.
That will get you what you want. But first, trigger job is most important.
go over to rimfirecentral.com, and learn how to do one.

See all your vertical stringing? either you are shooting it wrong, or your stock is touching the bbl, and doing that.

Don't kid yourself; the Green Mountain boys make an excellent bbl, and do so for many mfgrs of rifles,
that is why yours is cheap. But you could in no way have a true action, to the boltface, to the bbl.
get them all talking together , and walking together, EXACTLY ON THE SAME PAGE, and those groups
will shrink a bit more.

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