[SHusky57]

I have a Benelli M1 S90 imported by H&K.... it's smooth, lightweight, and sexy.

The problem? It sits in a safe and while it's too complicated for me to feel confident using in a high stress situation like the Zombie apocalypse.

I'm thinking for a tactical shotgun I would prefer a pistol grip Mossberg 500 for the ambi-safety.
Should I just wait until I have some extra cash, or seriously consider making a trade with the Benelli (although I know it is definitely worth at least 3x the price of the Mossy).

[SnakeLogan]

What's too complicated about it?

[SHusky57]

1) did I push the little button that connects the feed ramp to the chamber? if not then do so.
2) pull charging handle to chamber
3) take off safe, is it left or right (its left to take off safe, but if i was 1/2 awake it might be hard to remember compared to the Mossy where you just push forward).
4) to take off safe, I must adjust my grip whereas with the Mossy its just push forward.

I know it sounds dumb, but man have you ever been woken up at like 2 AM and realized how uncoordinated one can be?

Compared to Mossberg
1) Hold down button and rack slide (intuitive)
2) Push forward to go off safe (intuitive)

and disassembly is harder on the Benelli. I pulled it out of the safe to be objective, and it does feel REALLY ergonomic - although only having a pistol grip seems like it would be much more versatile for HD.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=58487

[Youngster]

I dunno, I figure you'd be better off getting in more practice until you're confident in working the Benelli's controls under stress. Unless you put in the practice it won't get any better with a pump.

[jfh]

You're sitting there with one of the finest tactical shotguns made--practice with it.

Read the manual and do the drills--it'll only get better.

[Sniper X]

I had one, if you leave it in patrol mode, and off safe as soon as you rack it it is ready to rock. If there isn't a round in the pipe, it is safe.....that is how mine stayed in the safe ready to go. But, as others said, practice.

[earlthegoat2]

1) did I push the little button that connects the feed ramp to the chamber? if not then do so.
2) pull charging handle to chamber
3) take off safe, is it left or right (its left to take off safe, but if i was 1/2 awake it might be hard to remember compared to the Mossy where you just push forward).
4) to take off safe, I must adjust my grip whereas with the Mossy its just push forward.

I know it sounds dumb, but man have you ever been woken up at like 2 AM and realized how uncoordinated one can be?

Compared to Mossberg
1) Hold down button and rack slide (intuitive)
2) Push forward to go off safe (intuitive)

and disassembly is harder on the Benelli. I pulled it out of the safe to be objective, and it does feel REALLY ergonomic - although only having a pistol grip seems like it would be much more versatile for HD.

First off, pistol grip Mossbergs are TERRIBLE because their safety is on the tang. You have to take your whole hand off the grip to manipulate the safety. Next, just keep your chamber loaded on your shotgun and you wont have any problems. Practice with your crossbolt safety and train yourself to use it correctly.

Next I am now sure you made the mistake of having little ones running around the house which precludes you from keeping the chamber loaded. Nothing I can say to correct this problem. Maybe training with the Super 90 from the unloded chamber condition to get it firing this way you will be able to do it when groggy. Most likely this will never occur anyway.

Pistol grip shotguns are terrible to use. Anything with a stock is better than a pistol grip. Learn it, live it, love it.

It is true that the Benelli M1 Super 90 is one of the best defense/tactical shotguns ever. The M2 is weak at best. Use it and love it.

Lastly....

From the sounds of it you are itching to buy a PG Mossberg, so no matter what anyone says here you are going to do it. So do it, and then learn firsthand that the advice you have been given against it is true. I am the same way. Some people have to figure it out for themselves before they understand. You are an owner of one of the best defense shotguns ever made and they dont make them anymore at that.

[AcceptableUserName]

+2 for Earl. "A pistol-grip mossberg for the tang safety" is a catch-22 in and of it's self.

[DougW]

I consider my M1Super90 my primary HD weapon. I have a G17 woth a Glock Light and a Maverick 88 with side saddle and light close at hand. I would use them to "fight" my way to the Benelli. My first pick over the rifles, and I am in a residental section in the county.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p118/MDWINK/DSCF0022.jpg

BTW, I removed the pistol grip stock and went with the straight stock. I can load faster because I use my right hand to reload.

[jmr40]

Keep the Benelli and learn how to use it.

[Gordon]

I put a 26" tubed barrel on my wood stocked M-1 Super 90 and removed the +2 extension. I can re install them in a few minutes for Zombies, in the mean time I use it with #4 steel 3" as a back up to my BB loaded 10 ga BPS for waterfowling..I too was never real happy with the controls and manual of arms for HD, but I am set in my ways...

[SHusky57]

After reading all these posts, I'm going to take the advice of the posters for now and learn the Benelli.

I'm not TERRIBLY inefficient with it mind you.... but it's not the same as my Browning HP that I could strip, assemble, and run a match with in my sleep.... okay, maybe I'm not that good but you get the point.

Question 1: Anyone have some links to useful drills?

Question 2: What choke to use? Right now I prefer improved cylinder because of my strong belief in slugs. In my experience, slugs are much more accurate for field use; whereas one only has a limited amount of control over the pattern of pellets. If I did use buckshot, it would be full choke.... but full choke leaves me unable to use slugs - and in a TEOTWAWKI scenario, versatility could be appreciated.

Until I get more training, I'll keep it in the safe and take it to the range. I'm going to look into classes at my local range as soon as I get some cash (just got a Ruger LCP so I'm broke on fun money).

Right now it's sporting an 18.5" barrel, pistol grip, and standard mag tube. I really need a sling, preferably one that would allow me freedom of movement and the ability to draw a pistol while the weapon was slung.

I have considered putting the surefire forend on it, or getting tritium front sight - but I'm kind of on the fence right now.

I just started doing IPSC with pistols, but eventually I'd like to be try a 3-gun shoot.

The only advantage the pistol grip mossberg seems to have is size.... the main reason I got interested in the M500 is because one of the only guns I don't have in my collection is a large caliber revolver for grizzly bear defense - and a pistol grip M500 slung over the shoulder with 3" slugs seemed a more economical choice.

I also liked the safety because it works the same way as my Stoeger Coach Gun, which strangely enough is my favorite shotgun I own.

[Youngster]

As far as drills go I recommend classes if possible.

As far as the choke goes, leave the IC in there and use FliteControl type buckshot if you want tight patterns. Full chokes are usually okay with smaller buckshot but tend to throw fliers with the larger stuff, and in any event is still not likely to pattern tighter than the FC stuff out of an IC choke.

Pistol grip only {PGO} shotguns are just all around awkward and require a lot of training to hit anything with beyond bad breath distances, I wouldn't bother going that route.

[waterhouse]

For choke, I went to the range with some buckshot and chokes and choke wrench. Mine patterned best with improved modified, so that's what I use. Different barrels and different brands of shells will pattern differently, so some shooting will be necessary to figure out what works best for you. The good news is that shooting is fun.

It isn't really a complicated design. Get some snap caps and practice. Mine has a full tube, empty chamber, safety off. I rack the bolt and it is ready to go.

As for the pistol grip (with stock) vs standard stock on the M1S90, I've owned both and much prefer the standard stock. I sold my pistol grip stocked M1.

3) take off safe, is it left or right (its left to take off safe, but if i was 1/2 awake it might be hard to remember compared to the Mossy where you just push forward).

Are you left or right handed? If you are right handed, it isn't hard to remember. The safety is designed for a right handed person, who pulls the trigger with their right index finger. The index finger can quickly move the safety to the off position (left) while on the way to the trigger.

4) to take off safe, I must adjust my grip whereas with the Mossy its just push forward.

Are you left handed or right handed?

[H2O MAN]

jmr40 Keep the Benelli and learn how to use it.

+1

I purchased my HK/Benelli M1S90 in 1993 and it is my one and only, do everything shotgun.

[DougW]

As far as choke tubes, I use the modified for all applications. Buck and slugs are reduced recoil, and #6 bird shot for matches. I get 4" groups with the 1oz slugs at 100 yards, and have used the Benelli out to 150 yards in matches, and the accuracy is very good.

[Dave McCracken]

My $0.02....

That Benelli is no harder to learn to run than a 1911. Like ALL defensive weapons, it requires time and training.

While a Mossberg with a for real stock is an excellent weapon, so is that Benelli and you have it already.

Burn ammo until it feels like a body part.

[SHusky57]

I am left handed.

The mossberg seems a little lighter weight, and the regular rifle stock seems preferable to the pistol stock.

What is the idea w/ using pistol stocks on "tactical" weapons? On long guns, it seems more ergonomic to have the traditional rifle stock....?

I want a sling that let's me be "hands free" as well. Any suggestion?

Also, are there any good rail systems out there, or is the surefire flashlight a good way to go? I've got a TLR-1 and an EOTech that aren't doing anything right now....

[Gordon]

http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/ggampg-benelli-single-point-sling-attachment-p-459.html
Takes care of the Single point sling mount- I like Wilderness slings.

http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/nordic-components-gauge-shotgun-extension-tube-clamp-with-rail-p-1377.html

Although out of stock currently , you get the idea. The TRL-1 is the bomb IMHO and I went BACK to it on my Benelli after trying others. BTW the Sure Fire Benelli foreend is not that great IMHO.

Of course you need an oversized operating handel and a Nordic billet follower if you are gonna go all the way. Yes non PG stocks are better functioning in CQB as is a 1-2" shorter stock, whichBTW is hard to get on a Benelli.

[Logan5]

What is the idea w/ using pistol stocks on "tactical" weapons? On long guns, it seems more ergonomic to have the traditional rifle stock....?

For starters, the PG is how you know you ought to pay an additional $800, because it's tactical.

I'd be wary of the Surefire for the M1 S90, get some cases of shells through it first. Rumor has it that the Surefire can kinda sorta cause problems, of the sort that we attribute to Surefires rather than inconsistent shell loadings because shotguns need shells to work, but not Surefires so much.

[DougW]

Since the M1 Super90 is recoil operated, adding accessories that add weight can affect the operation reliability. Add stuff slowly and function test each.

[H2O MAN]

DougW Since the M1 Super90 is recoil operated, adding accessories that add
weight can affect the operation reliability. Add stuff slowly and function test each.

Excellent point and it is the reason why I have not added anything to my HK.

I would like a weapon light and a Micro T-1 on my M1S90, but I don't want
to do anything that will have a negative effect on function and accuracy.

[SHusky57]

I have a TLR-1 already and it works great. I just don't have an apparatus to mount it to my Benelli, so it's ony my Glock 21.

as far as adding things to my benelli, I guess tritium front sight and a sling should be sufficient if I want to "tacticalize" it.

[Mike128]

My Benelli seems pretty simple to use.
Load, charge, take off saftey and your ready to go.

The magazine release button is there to give you the option of changing shot. So you can eject the live shell (say buckshot) and throwing in a different shell (slug). You only use that button to unload the shotgun if you haven't fired.

[waterhouse]

I would like a weapon light and a Micro T-1 on my M1S90, but I don't want
to do anything that will have a negative effect on function and accuracy.

Try a small weapons light. I've got one on mine, and I ran about 200 shells through it without a problem. Now when I go to the range I take the light off, but I know mine works with one.

[H2O MAN]

Quote:
I would like a weapon light and a Micro T-1 on my M1S90, but I don't want
to do anything that will have a negative effect on function and accuracy.

waterhouse

Try a small weapons light. I've got one on mine, and I ran about 200 shells through it without a problem. Now when I go to the range I take the light off, but I know mine works with one.

What is the light mounted to?

Thanks

[H2O MAN]

BTW, here is my HK/Benelli M1S90

http://www.athenswater.com/images/HD-Blackness.jpg

[earlthegoat2]

You can probably take some of that negligent weight off that AK to spread the wealth with your shotgun.

[H2O MAN]

The AK is right just as she is :evil:

[waterhouse]

What is the light mounted to?

Something like this:

http://www.botachtactical.com/kzuishmatumo.html

Mine isn't this exact model, but it's basically a 1 slot weaver rail that tightens on the mag tube. Then you can take a 1" diameter flashlight, put it in an old 1" scope ring (if you have one laying around), and you are set. I'll try to get some pictures in the morning.

[StarDust1]

Here's my Benelli M2 tactical sitting with an 870 for comparison. I believe the M2 replaces the M1 in the Benelli lineup. Inertia operated shotguns are very persnickety when it comes to hanging accessories on them. Even the extended mag tubes and sidesaddle shell carrier's can be problematic! I would recomend extensive testing on your rig before relying on it after any tactical conversion are done....

[fastpat]

Quote:
I would like a weapon light and a Micro T-1 on my M1S90, but I don't want
to do anything that will have a negative effect on function and accuracy.



What is the light mounted to?

Thanks
I have a Surefire Weapon Light (http://www.surefire.com/BenelliSuper90SNaboveM104800) on my M1 Super 90 and it functions flawlessly with it. It replaced the OEM fore end completely and fit as indicated on their web site.

I recently upgraded the incandescent bulb/lens assembly with an LED unit, it replaced the entire end of the light unit, new lens and reflector/bulb. That extended the battery life by 350% plus it went from 65 lumens to 80 lumens.

For a tactical or home defense shotgun accessory, the Surefire Weapon light is a very good one, just not low cost.

Last, the first mod I did on the Benelli was to remove the pistol grip stock and add the standard tactical stock.

Next, I'm considering at least a Tritium front sight for it. It's a positive way to locate the end of the weapon in low or no light conditions, and for it's intended purpose.

[gunnie]

..."I have a TLR-1 already and it works great. I just don't have an apparatus to mount it to my Benelli, so it's ony my Glock 21."...

likely VERY hard to find now, but in the 90's surefire made a dedicated forearm for the 90 with flashlight mounted inside of front, lower section. was a slick set-up.

gunnie

[fastpat]

..."I have a TLR-1 already and it works great. I just don't have an apparatus to mount it to my Benelli, so it's ony my Glock 21."...

likely VERY hard to find now, but in the 90's surefire made a dedicated forearm for the 90 with flashlight mounted inside of front, lower section. was a slick set-up.

gunnieThe Surefire Benelli weapon light forearm is still in production, fitting late model ('98-99 production approximately) M1's and M2 shotguns. I linked to Surefire above to the page showing the lights.

[gunnie]

..."The Surefire Benelli weapon light forearm is still in production, fitting late model ('98-99 production approximately) M1's and M2 shotguns. I linked to Surefire above to the page showing the lights."...

this would be "THE" set-up for the super 90!

gunnie

[Gibbles]

Like others have said, just practice, the more you use it the easier it will be.

But I vote get a Saiga-12, and convert it.
It's AK stupid easy, hell a bunch of inbred third world childern can figure out how to work an AK. ;)

[Zak Smith]

The M1S90/M2S90 is the most popular 3-Gun shotgun by far, for good reason. It's really not hard to learn how to run it efficiently and as second nature.

But I vote get a Saiga-12, and convert it.
In my experience, the Saigas are a lot less reliable than the M1/M2S90.

-z

ETA: Saiga reliability comments are from watching over a dozen people "try to" use them in 3-Gun competitions over the last several years. Way more trouble, marginal benefits.

[Girodin]

But I vote get a Saiga-12, and convert it.
It's AK stupid easy, hell a bunch of inbred third world childern can figure out how to work an AK.

Do you have a S12? I am a huge fan of the Saiga, but reloading on a closed bolt requires one to either install a mag well, reshape the bolt, or practice practice practice and then practice some more. If the OP thinks running the M1 is hard he will not be a fan of the closed bolt reload.

Saiga's are project guns that take work to get dialed in. The vary significantly one gun to the next and I would not count on one out of the box. My guns that I have gotten dialed in run like a top.

[Gibbles]

My S12 is pretty reliable, the main issue with a mag fed shotgun is the plasic rounds kinda get warped... or oval... that will jam an S12 up like nothing else.
So ammo selection is important.
I also have a gas plug with 5 settings... :p

And you can load from a closed bolt, but I just push my finger up on the bolt catch and rack the bolt with my weak hand to lock it back then reload.
I have gotten pretty quick at it.

This is it's current config (wifes cat... never mind... )
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/Gibbles1221/Firearms/S12folder.jpg

I have mostly AGP 10rd mags, and one MD 20rd drum for it, all runs quite well.

I have done some tweaking to the shotgun to get it to run perfect, these are built by drunken russians... :p

[Gibbles]

I decided on an Benelli M4 or the Saiga 12 +conversion, after about one year of looking I finally found the Saiga 12, and I'm very happy with it, it's my new 3gun shotgun, but now I'm in the open class... :p

[kwelz]

What is the idea w/ using pistol stocks on "tactical" weapons? On long guns, it seems more ergonomic to have the traditional rifle stock...

Trust me it is not. Traditional shotgun and rifle grips force the hand and wrist into a very unnatural and weak position.

[H2O MAN]

fastpat

I have a Surefire Weapon Light on my M1 Super 90 and it functions flawlessly with it. It replaced the OEM fore end completely and fit as indicated on their web site.

I recently upgraded the incandescent bulb/lens assembly with an LED unit, it replaced the entire end of the light unit, new lens and reflector/bulb. That extended the battery life by 350% plus it went from 65 lumens to 80 lumens.

My local gun shop has the correct M1 Super 90 weapon light in stock :)

Could you detail the bulb upgrade? Is it available from SureFire? Thanks.

I found it! 617LF LED or 617LFG LED

http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/617LF_large2.jpg


Nice cat Gibbles







.

[Girodin]

And you can load from a closed bolt, but I just push my finger up on the bolt catch and rack the bolt with my weak hand to lock it back then reload.
I have gotten pretty quick at it.

I am not saying it cannot be done. It can. I am merely saying that it takes practice and that most people are likely to find it more difficult than the issues the OP raised with the M1.

Sweet S12 BTW.

[Gibbles]

Thanks, I like it alot. :)

And yeah it does take a bit of practice, but it's still lots faster than loading the tube.

And there is a last round lock back in the works, they also have magwells available, nice part about that is you loose the front tab on the mag and it works like an AR mag, straight up and down, and that should make loading with a full mag and closed bolt much easier.

MDarms, the guy that made the drum is working on a double stack mag, and a magwell that will work with both the drum and the double stack mags, and hopefully the 12 AGP 10rounder mags I have. :p
My next three gun match I plan on running the drum to start, and I have 4 clear 10round mags I want to give a go, I doubt I'll need more than one mag change per stage though. :evil:

I'm also wanting to get some sort of rail for it one day, I want a forgrip to help me deal with the drum, and I want a flash light for the once a year night matches. :D

Most of the guys run Benelli M1's, one guy has a M3 I think it was, select pump or auto, pretty cool gun. :)

[Girodin]

Yes I'm planing on adding a magwell to one of my S12s and if I like it I'll do the others. My major dilema right now is whether to simply buy the JTE mag well or hold out for an MD mag well that will work with a double stack mag. It was not my understanding that the MD magwell would work with a drum (it is hard for me to picture how it could while still being practical). I might be mistaken however. I wish there was a firmer ETA on the MD mag well and/or double stack mags. Also have you heard any figures thrown around in terms of price? I don't doubt cobra will get his LRBHO out but I am not holding my breath for it either. If you have followed the development I am sure you understand why I say that. MD purportedly has an ambi bolt release that is supposed to work with it. Also will the LRBHO work with the double stacks? Who knows.

I will say a mag well, LRBHO, and a bolt release would significant additions to the S12. Double stacks would be icing on the cake.

I want a foregrip to help me deal with the drum, and I want a flash light for the once a year night matches.

I have not put the additions up but I just added a VFG and a light to my current project s12. I'll be updating the other thread soon

I am in UT enough that I would be very interested in what 3 gun events are going on. Can I PM you with some questions? I know the saiga puts me in open (and my skills should put me in uber novice) but I am interested in shooting only for fun and to improve my skills.

[Gibbles]

You can send me a PM, if you want you can email red and get on the mailing list too. :)

They don't do the three gun stuff as often as the pistol and ICORE due to ammo prices/avail, and I missed the last three gun match due to MSN filtering out most of my gun related stuff... :scrutiny: I worked the filters out finally though.

[Gibbles]

And I have been up in the air about the magwell, if I had two of these shotguns I would set one up with a magwell, but I like being able to accept any mag, and I'm pretty happy with my method of changing the mags so far.
The biggest issue is the drum, that's my favorite accessory. :D

[Hank Dodge]

I've got an early HK/Benelli from about 1992. Do you think that the Surefire light set-up will work on it? Mine doesn't get used much either I hate to say. That light would go a long way to making it more practical though.

Right now, it's my old Winchester Model '97 riot gun that holds home shotgun duties. It's second nature for me. The short and positive feel of that weapon is great, and it doesn't have any safety or shell blocking buttons to worry about. The Benelli just feels like a plastic toy in comparison.

[Ableskeever]

After reading all these posts, I'm going to take the advice of the posters for now and learn the Benelli.

I'm not TERRIBLY inefficient with it mind you.... but it's not the same as my Browning HP that I could strip, assemble, and run a match with in my sleep.... okay, maybe I'm not that good but you get the point.

Question 1: Anyone have some links to useful drills?

Question 2: What choke to use? Right now I prefer improved cylinder because of my strong belief in slugs. In my experience, slugs are much more accurate for field use; whereas one only has a limited amount of control over the pattern of pellets. If I did use buckshot, it would be full choke.... but full choke leaves me unable to use slugs - and in a TEOTWAWKI scenario, versatility could be appreciated.

Until I get more training, I'll keep it in the safe and take it to the range. I'm going to look into classes at my local range as soon as I get some cash (just got a Ruger LCP so I'm broke on fun money).

Right now it's sporting an 18.5" barrel, pistol grip, and standard mag tube. I really need a sling, preferably one that would allow me freedom of movement and the ability to draw a pistol while the weapon was slung.

I have considered putting the surefire forend on it, or getting tritium front sight - but I'm kind of on the fence right now.

I just started doing IPSC with pistols, but eventually I'd like to be try a 3-gun shoot.

The only advantage the pistol grip mossberg seems to have is size.... the main reason I got interested in the M500 is because one of the only guns I don't have in my collection is a large caliber revolver for grizzly bear defense - and a pistol grip M500 slung over the shoulder with 3" slugs seemed a more economical choice.

I also liked the safety because it works the same way as my Stoeger Coach Gun, which strangely enough is my favorite shotgun I own.
As my old basketball coach taught us, "Practice makes permanent".

As in any sport, how you practice is how you perform. Practice your reaction to an intruder, (gun empty of course). Practice quick loading with distractions (like someone yelling at you or with a timer). Practice the motion of bringing the gun to your shoulder and taking the safety off both in your house (still empty chamber) and at the range/field (be sure to squeeze some shots off).

When I got started shooting clay pigeons outside in a field with a hand thrower, I practiced the motion I would do when bird hunting. You don't walk around with the gun to your shoulder, you have it where you can bring it up quickly, but you are still more comfortable walking. Learn the possible ranges of motion you might have to perform.

[fastpat]

My local gun shop has the correct M1 Super 90 weapon light in stock :)

Could you detail the bulb upgrade? Is it available from SureFire? Thanks.

I found it! 617LF LED or 617LFG LED

http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/617LF_large2.jpg


Nice cat Gibbles

.
The bulb upgrade is actually a "end of light unit" upgrade. The entire end of the weapon light is removed and replaced with a new one that contains the LED bulb, reflector, lens, and so forth. Hence it is twice as expensive as the far simpler bulb/reflector changeout that I made on two of my Surefire flashlights. But, for more than 3 times the battery life, it will pay for itself eventually and the light output is higher, yes you order it from Surefire.
http://images46.fotki.com/v1413/photos/4/41655/7074274/Carl_1-vi.jpg

Hank Dodge, the fitting of the light is by serial number, I don't know the year of manufacture involved with that. The serial number is listed on the Surefire web site.

The old Winchester 97 (or 1897 if it's old enough) was the top riot gun of it's day. If you shoot it well, it may be your best choice. The Benelli's chief advantage is its speed of cycling, you'd fire the Model 97 once and be half way through cycling the pump action and the Benelli would get off two more shots in that time.

[H2O MAN]

The bulb upgrade is actually a "end of light unit" upgrade.
The entire end of the weapon light is removed and replaced with a new one that contains the LED bulb, reflector, lens, and so forth.

Help me understand...

Is the upgrade you are talking about different from the factory LED lights available from SureFire?
Does one buy the factory LED light (617LF LED or 617LFG LED) and send it off to another company for the upgrade?

[GunTech]

Question 2: What choke to use? Right now I prefer improved cylinder because of my strong belief in slugs. In my experience, slugs are much more accurate for field use; whereas one only has a limited amount of control over the pattern of pellets. If I did use buckshot, it would be full choke.... but full choke leaves me unable to use slugs - and in a TEOTWAWKI scenario, versatility could be appreciated.

Choke? We don't need no steenking choke.

http://guntech.com/shotgun/m1s90.jpg

[fastpat]

Help me understand...

Is the upgrade you are talking about different from the factory LED lights available from SureFire?
Does one buy the factory LED light (617LF LED or 617LFG LED) and send it off to another company for the upgrade?Sure thing.

When you order this kit (http://www.surefire.com/BP60L-LED-WeaponLight-Conversion-Kit) you get the following:
http://images112.fotki.com/v1531/photos/4/41655/7074274/LED_conversion-vi.jpg

It's my understanding that the reflector angle is different due to the near linear light output of an LED. They're almost as co-linear as a laser, not quite, but close. Couple that with the need to shock mount everything on a weapon light to account for recoil, you need the entire front of the light replaced, unlike the flashlight which only needs the bulb/reflector replaced. You simply unscrew the old end of the light and install the new one, pretty much like a bulb change, but with the new light end piece and lens.

As an aside, brighter LED's are coming online. As it is today, the LED upgrade takes you from 65 lumens to 80 lumens, plus the 350% increase in battery life. The weapon light (http://www.surefire.com/LED-Momentary---Constant-On--System-Disable-Switching) is available new with the LED already a part of it.

[DAdams]

GunTech-

What make, what model? Nice.

[GunTech]

M1 Super90 Post HK with 10.5 bbl.

[greyeyezz]

What is the idea w/ using pistol stocks on "tactical" weapons? On long guns, it seems more ergonomic to have the traditional rifle stock....?

To each his own but I shoot way better with a full pistol grip stock on my 870 and my Mini-14. Its more natural of a position for my wrist when shooting something thats ground level.

[DougW]

I remoed the factory pistol grip butt stock and went with a conventional type, because the pistol grip interfears with reloading (for me).

[RangerHAAF]

I love my M-1. It's the greatest autoloader on the market. I traded a SPAS-12 for mine; never shot the thing and it was just too heavy to be of any practical use.

[Gordon]

Gun Tech AOW needsa 12.5" stock to be pretty darn near purrfect.