ar-15 trigger comparisons


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wood22345
May 28, 2009, 06:48 PM
I am bulding my first ar-15. I have been racking my brain to decide on a trigger. the triggers in question are the jewel trigger, timney trigger, gieselle trigger or the Ar gold trigger (which is the one I am leaning toward). any advice would be appreciated...

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Avenger29
May 28, 2009, 06:57 PM
A thread at m4carbine.net (http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=12170) you may want to read.

wood22345
May 28, 2009, 07:17 PM
thanks that does help. It does narrow the field to two. one of which is not mentioned in the thread. the ar gold trigger and the giesselle trigger. almost there... ha ha!

Ed Ames
May 28, 2009, 08:35 PM
The only of those I have any experience with is the ATC gold trigger, and that experience is limited to firing off a magazine or two and playing with the lower -- basically popping it off the main sear to see the secondary sear trigger pull, watching the sear disengage when the safety was engaged, and so on.

It is nice... I don't know why I can't bring myself to say outstanding because it is actually quite good, but I'm sticking with nice. Definitely better than the stock AR triggers I've played with but... can't say why I'm not enthused. The safety features are very good and it looked extremely well made. It is up there with the best triggers I've used on any rifle... but it isn't the best.

It is a fixed 3.5lb pull trigger as far as I can tell, though their web page seems to imply that it is adjustable. Maybe that's what bugs me ... their web page is long on BS, short on facts. I'm also a little down on them insisting on saying over and over again it is a competition trigger. Why do I want something that is supposedly only good for competition?

I would want to try the others before I dumped close to $300 on one....

cavman
May 28, 2009, 08:48 PM
I bought the Geiselle trigger from word of mouth only. The HighPower competition precision guys at Camp Perry said to get it. That is what was recommended to me.

2 stage adjustable.

It is my understanding that combat shooters may prefer a single stage.

sarduy
May 28, 2009, 08:54 PM
i use a single stage

paulo
May 28, 2009, 08:57 PM
The Geiselle is very nice,I have one in a spacegun. Single stage I would recomend it. They are a bit pricey.
Rock River makes a nice two stage if you want to shoot service rifle .This is a great alternative.

Howard Roark
May 28, 2009, 10:16 PM
This new trigger will give Geiselle some competition.

X-Treme AR-15 trigger (http://www.x-tremeshooting.com/index.php?page=X-Treme%20AR-15%20trigger)

taliv
May 28, 2009, 10:21 PM
interesting, Howard. have you used it? what's the advantage over the Geiselle?

Howard Roark
May 28, 2009, 11:41 PM
No, I haven't seen one yet. I plan to pick one up at Perry this year to play with. I like the idea of it being EDM cut and not cast. Not that there is a problem with Bill's triggers but I'm always looking for something better. I've got 3 Geiselles now. I've seen where the Geiselle is 50% faster than stock, a stock trigger is about 16 milliseconds. The new trigger has a high speed video showing that it has a 4 millisecond lock time.

Edited to add:
The trigger in my match rifle (highpower) has been acting up a bit lately. It will slowly start to feel "scratchy" in the first stage. I really don't notice until I get chicken finger and realize whats going on. I cleaned and lubed it before a match two weeks ago and it was doing OK until it rained when we got to the 600 yard line and it pierced 5 or 6 primers. The trigger housing got hosed with carbon and I lost the first stage for a shot and then it went back to breaking erratically. Understandable enough but I wonder if there is wear exascerbating the problem. A harder surface might eliminate this issue.

RJS34
May 28, 2009, 11:58 PM
I have a RRA 2 stage trigger that was tuned at WOA on my 204 AR. I like it a lot.

Zundfolge
May 29, 2009, 12:25 AM
I have the Timney Skeletonized drop in trigger on my AR.

Its a wonderful trigger, short, crisp, 3lbs. And installation was a breeze.

http://www.timneytriggers.com/sunshop/images/products/detail_5_AR15-skel.jpg


Frankly I dislike 2 stage triggers ... but I also don't shoot highpower.

WC145
May 29, 2009, 11:04 AM
+1 for the Timney. I have the same one as above in my Bushmaster and what a difference it made! Clean, crisp, consistent, very easy to install, and well worth the cost.

kwelz
May 29, 2009, 12:00 PM
The important question is what you are going to be doing with the gun. That will make it a bit easier to answer. Honestly all the triggers mentioned are good for range/hunting guns.

wood22345
May 29, 2009, 12:38 PM
well I am planing to use this AR build as a long range cross over weapon. for distance and tactical purposes if needed. Highly accurate, fast and light weight. I am building it off of the sun devil reciever upper and lower in nickel teflon, young manufactoring national match bolt, lothar walther barrel 1:9, pws comp, daniel defese quad rail.. the trigger is the only hold out?!
so I guess the answer is accuracy and speed... the only american way to do things ha ha!!

Jim Watson
May 29, 2009, 12:43 PM
I saw the AR Gold and X-Treme triggers at the SHOT Show. Both were very nice but I would give the edge to the X-Treme.

Maverick223
May 29, 2009, 01:03 PM
This new trigger will give Geiselle some competition.That is an impressive trigger...now why am I looking at this? I have no AR-15...or any real plans to get one...or any of the other guns they make triggers for.

SwampWolf
June 3, 2009, 04:27 PM
I have a RRA 2 stage trigger that was tuned at WOA on my 204 AR. I like it a lot.

The RRA 2-stage National Match trigger is a great unit. What makes it especially nice, it's way more affordable than some of the pricier alternatives that aren't any better.

Shung
June 3, 2009, 04:34 PM
DO they make the X-trem trigger for colt large pins ?

nhm16
June 3, 2009, 05:14 PM
If it's your first AR, my recommendation would be to just use the standard trigger if your AR is going to be an M4-gery or other "tactical" style, or used for 3 gun, etc, at least until you get used to the platform and know better what you want and what the gun will be used for.

If you gotta have a two stage trigger for a tactical style build, I would recommend the Geissele SSA, which claims to be the only two stage trigger that's as durable and reliable as the standard single stage.
I have an SSA coming in this week, took a while to find someone who had one in stock (prices on them have also increased 33% since introduction). I have also heard good things about the two stage triggers from LMT (I think only sold as part of a complete lower receiver) and Armalite when used in tactical style guns (remember that reliability and durability is more important here). Conversely, I have heard that the Rock River two stage is not too durable, though I have a RR tuned by White Oak Armament, but it's on my SPR-style AR, and doesn't see high round counts. I don't know if the tuning makes any difference other than the feel.

If it's a precision competition gun of some sort, I have heard the "best" is apparently the Geissele hi-speed. Rainier Arms sells them with the springs for all three pull weights for the same price as other places charge for only one pull weight. I have also heard good things about the JP Rifles two stage.

gvnwst
June 3, 2009, 05:29 PM
The X-treme trigger looks good, ill have to see if i can get my hands on one to try.

To the OP, i have a timney, and it is great, but another trigger you want to look into is the JP single stage, it is GREAT.

Dr.Rob
June 3, 2009, 07:01 PM
FYI, I don't know what trigger is in a Colt 6920, but it is the best factory trigger I have EVER handled on a semi-auto rifle. (Single stage, no creep breaks like glass...)

taliv
June 3, 2009, 07:31 PM
never heard that before. my colt 6920 trigger feels like every other standard mil-spec ar trigger: horrible, but good for what it was intended

taliv
August 2, 2009, 04:37 PM
No, I haven't seen one yet. I plan to pick one up at Perry this year to play with. I like the idea of it being EDM cut and not cast. Not that there is a problem with Bill's triggers but I'm always looking for something better. I've got 3 Geiselles now. I've seen where the Geiselle is 50% faster than stock, a stock trigger is about 16 milliseconds. The new trigger has a high speed video showing that it has a 4 millisecond lock time.

Edited to add:
The trigger in my match rifle (highpower) has been acting up a bit lately. It will slowly start to feel "scratchy" in the first stage. I really don't notice until I get chicken finger and realize whats going on. I cleaned and lubed it before a match two weeks ago and it was doing OK until it rained when we got to the 600 yard line and it pierced 5 or 6 primers. The trigger housing got hosed with carbon and I lost the first stage for a shot and then it went back to breaking erratically. Understandable enough but I wonder if there is wear exascerbating the problem. A harder surface might eliminate this issue.

i played with them today, Howard. ironically, they're sharing a bldg with geissele, so you can pull one, do an about face, and pull the other for an immediate comparison.

my initial take: unimpressed. the demo model was rough pull on the first stage (felt uneven, like it was dragging in spots) and longer pull by far than the geissele and the 2nd was crisp, but not better.

kwelz
August 2, 2009, 05:40 PM
Wow A moderator getting into Necromancy. ;) Never thought I would see the day.

MJR007
August 2, 2009, 06:02 PM
Send the trigger that comes in your parts kit to

http://www.triggerwork.net/ar15s.html

with $50. It is a huge improvement. I spent $200 on my Timney and there is little diffence.

The Timney is on a 25wssm. I am not sure how it will last over time. All is still well with the unlucky 13th box of bullets just opened up. Time will tell.

The Ar market is filled with holes to put money into. Please try Bill first and save some money for reloading reading material.

Good luck.

Howard Roark
August 2, 2009, 06:40 PM
Taliv, Thanks for the report. I heard that the first stage was rough.

I didn't make it to Perry due to work. First year I've missed since 2004.

With all the shenanigans with the new CMP loading procedures I'm not all that broken up about it. I got two brand new Colt mags to use only for SR and in three matches they missfed the first round twice. The only alibi I ever had at Perry in 8 trips was due to a target malfunction and not my fault. Until someone comes to their senses I'll stick to MR and NRA matches.

I predict much confusion, many many alibi strings and long days on the range this year.

Good Luck.

taliv
August 2, 2009, 09:59 PM
Np Howard

I was really looking forward to some new blood. Maybe it'll get better. Hard to shake first impressions though

yeah squadded prac didn't finish til 7 something today!
And they didn't even shoot alibis
(freakin eagles and boats and comm probs)

SwampWolf
August 17, 2009, 03:46 AM
Conversely, I have heard that the Rock River two stage is not too durable,

Curious. Can you tell us where you "heard" this?

rbernie
August 17, 2009, 08:30 AM
I have used a half-dozen Jards in various builds, and I think highly of them. None of these rifles are high-usage (each sees less than 1000 rounds per year, and more likely than not less than 500) but for hunting use they have been solid.

nhm16
August 17, 2009, 09:08 AM
Curious. Can you tell us where you "heard" this?

Anecdotally, on ARFCOM and m4carbine.net... I am not a high volume shooter, so I'm not too worried about mine, which was came tuned from White Oak, but I definitely remember reading numerous times about the RRA trigger losing the first stage in high-round count situations, when I was researching triggers. Here's a thread on calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=2850589) with some more information.

c5_nc
August 17, 2009, 11:50 AM
You can get "triggerworks.net" job by Bill Springfield for $35 for 4 lb pull. If you have a varmint/target shooting AR and don't really use it as a carbine he offers a $50 job. After that I would probably look at the Jards.

winston smith
August 17, 2009, 01:35 PM
It is a fixed 3.5lb pull trigger as far as I can tell, though their web page seems to imply that it is adjustable. Maybe that's what bugs me ... their web page is long on BS, short on facts.

And "word of mouth"

Gun people are almost pre-literate. These websites are done by Java-disabled kids who can't communicate with anyone, esp. girls. Facts and rumors are passed on by the Telephone game, and whatever goes in, its garbage out. I once made left-hand safties for the 10-22; adverising and instructions were the killers. It's all about communications and that is not our strong point.

The AR Gold's big feature is that it is SAFE. I use a JP on my primary, and will eventually replace it with a Gold. All these triggers are light pulls, and that's about it; they don't work magic, just the basic thing of reducing pull weight.

taliv
August 17, 2009, 02:29 PM
The AR Gold's big feature is that it is SAFE. I use a JP on my primary, and will eventually replace it with a Gold. All these triggers are light pulls, and that's about it; they don't work magic, just the basic thing of reducing pull weight.

not sure what "all these" triggers you're referring to. The primary features of most of the top shelf triggers (JP, geissele, etc) are that they're crisp and clean without that "dragging across gravel" feel. They aren't light or 'hair' triggers. They certainly are not unsafe.

SwampWolf
August 18, 2009, 02:32 PM
Curious. Can you tell us where you "heard" this?

Anecdotally, on ARFCOM and m4carbine.net... I am not a high volume shooter, so I'm not too worried about mine, which was came tuned from White Oak, but I definitely remember reading numerous times about the RRA trigger losing the first stage in high-round count situations, when I was researching triggers.

The reason I asked the question is because I am a "high volume" shooter (I compete regularly in Service Rifle matches using a RRA National Match 2-stage trigger and know others that do) and I've never heard about nor have I encountered any sort of failure with the RRA unit. I'm not saying it doesn't happen nor that durability issues aren't a problem, just that it certainly hasn't been my experience.

taliv
August 18, 2009, 02:35 PM
i've heard about lots of RRA trigger failures, seen 1

(though, I have one with over 15,000 rnds on it and no issues... doesn't mean they're all good or all bad)

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