Remington 700 .223 leaving bad brass scratch


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7mmMurphy
May 30, 2009, 01:13 AM
I have a Remington 700 .223 Rem. with less than 50 rounds through. The spent cases have a scratch that runs the entire length of the case from the rim to the shoulder. Will this go away over time or do I need to lightly file near the feed ramp? The scratch is more than just the chamber mark, it's deep and you can feel it very easily with your finger nail. My concern is it's creating a weak spot that will split after several re-loads.

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diggler1833
May 30, 2009, 08:45 AM
Send it back to Remington. Filing stuff yourself usually has a tendency to void their warranty.

LTR shooter
May 30, 2009, 10:15 AM
Will this go away over time or do I need to lightly file near the feed ramp?

This should not be happening at all. I doubt that it will go away on its own as the brass is much softer than the steel that is causing the scratch. Can you feel a burr anywhere on the ramp?

W.E.G.
June 1, 2009, 01:09 AM
Check the feed lips.

If you find a burr, fix it.

Ol` Joe
June 1, 2009, 02:46 PM
I have had the same problem with a Remington M7 in the past. The culprit was a burr on the front edge of the chamber that I had polished out by my dealer, a Remington warrenty center. The ejector button pressed the shoulder and neck on the burr scoring the case deeply during extraction/ejection.

I`ve also seen a chip in the crown of a new M700 that was a special order and I had to recrown to fix. (done at the same place) Both of these were bought in the last 10 years, older guns never gave me any troubles.

I`ve since dropped Remington and went with Kimber, Winchester, and CZ rifles. The Kimber was a very early issue and had some roughness to the bolt they polished out. It has proven since to be extreemly accurate and is my "go to" rifle for the deer woods here. The other two rifles have been great from day 1..

I`m not saying Remington builds bad rifles. Once fixed they shoot good and function fine, but QC issues on 2 rifles in a row in a 3-4year span dulled their attraction in my eyes

ArmedBear
June 1, 2009, 03:42 PM
One more reason that Remingtons are off my consideration list...

7mmMurphy
June 3, 2009, 11:05 AM
I took a non-primered/powdered case with a properly seated projectile and colored it with a black marker and chambered it and was careful to guide it out of the chamber upon extraction. It showed very clearly the score mark and the general area it's coming from. I ran a Q-Tip over the general location and it didn't snag the cotton. If it did I would have considered removing the burr myself but I can't say for sure exactly where it's located. I called Remington and they were very helpful and sent shipping materials etc. I've had excellent experience with Remington’s in the past so I have high hopes for this 700.

hometheaterman
June 3, 2009, 11:51 AM
Exactly, It seems like everything I buy from Remington or use it seems like it just has something wrong with it that should have never made it past quality control. I want to like Remington as when working they have decent shooting guns at decent prices. However, it's hard to like them when it seems like half of their stuff has issues that the quality control department should have caught. I don't like having to work on brand new stuff.

Reid73
June 3, 2009, 01:55 PM
Sounds like you have a problem with the chamber, not the feed ramp. Yes you should get it looked at if you reload (probably makes no real difference if you're not reusing your cases).

Fact is, you can be unlucky and purchase a brand new but defective rifle from any manufacturer. However, Remington has acquired a reputation for steadily deteriorating quality control. Accordingly, I like to play the odds and stay with one of the other names.

I have heard that Remington has pulled many of its QC people away from the commercial production firearms and has them busy checking the government contract stuff in its military products division. I do not know if there is any truth to that rumor, but it sounds plausible and would explain a lot.

7mmMurphy
June 24, 2009, 10:21 PM
Update on the Remington 700. First, the customer service reps were extremely nice and helpful. They sent a shipping label and gun box lightening fast. Sending the rifle to them was as easy as dropping it in the box and putting their shipping label on it. I give 5 stars to the customer service reps.

The rifle was returned in about a week and a half and I’m happy about that. I would have rather they kept it for eight weeks and actually fixed the problem. The score marks are still there although they are not as prominent. Their gunsmiths and QC gets 1 star. I give them one star because they didn’t do any further damage to the rifle. I’ll call them again tomorrow and probably go through the process all over again.

It’s a shame because the rifle shot .5 MOA out of the box. The score marks on the cases are still unacceptable since I reload.

7mmMurphy
September 4, 2009, 11:43 AM
Final update on the Remington 700 in .223 Remington: After two tries they got it right. I'm now extremely pleased with my choice of the Remington 700. Shoos 1/2" moa at 100 yards with my generic .223 hand load. I haven't worked up a load for this particular rifle but I'm so pleased with the rifle over all. I would buy it again.

Big_E
September 4, 2009, 12:02 PM
Hmm, I seem to have this problem as well with the brass getting scratched and it is very to difficult to lower the bolt handle with a round chambered. I also want to like Remington as I have been to their factory and all but right now I'm lookin for a pre 64 Model 70 in .30-06 to replace it.

orvpark
September 4, 2009, 02:05 PM
I`m not saying Remington builds bad rifles.

OK I will:)

Remington has the potential to build excellent guns, and does turn out good guns when all the stars align. My gripe is their quality control sucks for the price point. The box stores ruined their quality. I would expect to have to polish something in the Savage or Mossberg pricepoint. Yet have been pleasantly surprised with all of the Savage and Mossbergs I own.

I don't mind paying more for more but more for less isn't going to happen for me ever. That is unless maybe I plan to resell:) and feel the name is worth it. 700's are the 10/22 of centerfires, their only redeeming factor is all the crap you can throw at them.

kmullins
September 4, 2009, 02:49 PM
Like many others in this thread have already said, Remington quality control has really fallen off. Last year I bought a Remington 700 VLS in .308 and had a terrible experience. The rifle came to me with a cracked stock, worn finish and looked like a used gun. Luckily the establishment I bought it from took it back and refunded me, but NEVER again will I buy a Remington. The customer service department was absolutely terrible and the guy I got tried to pawn it off on me and in short said "tough luck". Remington is overrated, overpriced and they have really forgotten how to make nice rifles. Since then I am a CZ guy and couldn't be happier!

tjrahl
September 4, 2009, 11:08 PM
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww102/tjrahl1/P1010004.jpg
^Would like a word with all of you hating on Remington's of late
7mm Remington magnum
Dime groups at 100 yards with a moron like me behind the trigger
over 80% contact on the lugs from the factory
Fully adjustable trigger currently set at 2.2 pounds with no pre travel and little over travel
$268 after taxes and Remington rebate ($25)
the scope is a Nikon pro staff i took of my 10/22 just to see if it could take a 7 mag, it did and now lives on the 700 (needless to say I am now a fan of Nikon optics).
total cost for this set up approximately $600
Find me another gun that can do what this one can for the price
This is the lowest quality 700 Remington offers.


The scratches you are experiencing on your cases are most likely from a bur on the magazine feed lips, easily and inexpensively corrected.

If you are having accuracy problems with a 700, perhaps its you and not the gun.

Big_E
September 4, 2009, 11:14 PM
Mine is plenty accurate now after a few boxes of ammo. My only gripes are the cheap stock (easily replaced), and the scratching of the brass. Not sure about closing the bolt handle, I extensively cleaned out the chamber and thoroughly cleaned the lugs. I will keep mine for now and when I get a better/prettier rifle it will be a loaner.

Otherwise the trigger is great and its not the newer triggers w/ the accutrigger adjustment but the xmark that isn't easier to adjust.

tjrahl
September 4, 2009, 11:19 PM
the 700 in the picture is the model previous to the one currently in production, and i can tell you first hand the trigger is cake to adjust, the stock is not a mcmillan but shoulders, points and handles recoil fine (what more could i ask for for the price?).

about closing the bolt, are you shooting reloads or factory?
it it takes more pressure than your pinky i would worry about it, if that is all it takes thank your lucky stars you have a match length chamber.

Also for $130 you can get a finished Boyd's stock with a thumb hole or without, they are doing a clearance soon (i got an email) on the thumb holes and the finished ones should be going for $99.

Big_E
September 4, 2009, 11:44 PM
When I am chambering a round it becomes difficult but when I am just working the bolt (empty chamber) it is fine. I am going to give another go at cleaning the chamber and locking lugs but it just seems weird that it only does it when a round is chambered (which points toward a chamber issue).

Oh and they are factory rounds btw, 165-180gr

**I was looking at a boyds stock or hogue stock. The standard SPS finish on the metal is half-assed matte whatever, some of it is starting to wear off on the bolt already I figure if it is ugly already i will just go w/ the hogue.

tjrahl
September 4, 2009, 11:47 PM
You probably have a tight chamber this is a good thing as long as it is not to tight, about how much force would you say is required to close the bolt?

Big_E
September 4, 2009, 11:51 PM
Gosh I would say more than a pinky. :rolleyes:

I don't have to use all my brute strength but it does take more work than it used to I would say some weak elbow grease effort. As in I can't work it with just my fingers some wrist and arm action is required.

tjrahl
September 5, 2009, 12:08 AM
Hmm now that sounds like an issue, not necessarily unsafe, but i would worry about how much that is crushing the brass, especially if you reload and use it in another gun repeatedly crushing the brass into the 700, then firing it in a gun with a loser chamber would put a lot of stress on the brass and shorten its life significantly, if you have a set of calipers measure the length of a case before and after firing from the case head to the neck, if the measurement is shorter the brass is getting crushed (fired brass is almost always larger), personally i have never dealt with a gun that was under head space by that much, and hence have no idea what problems it could cause. If you have an experienced gunsmith near you i would ask him about it.

Big_E
September 5, 2009, 12:18 AM
Yes that does concern me but it did not do this before. Out of the box it was as smooth as a 700 can get, and every time I clean the gun I clean the chamber. I will go check my fired/unfired brass.

I still think I must have missed a spot when cleaning because when it was new for a few boxes of various brands it did not have this issue.

**After some scrubbing with a copper .45 cal brush in the chamber the bolt worked a little better but is still not smooth. I checked the shoulders and necks from the fired/unfired brass and they appear to be the same but I need to get a microscope and take it to the lab for more tests ;)

tjrahl
September 5, 2009, 12:26 AM
ugh! now you have my mind trying to rap itself around this problem and find a solution!

shining a flashlight from the back of the action and inspecting the chamber might shed some light on the issue, since you say it only happens with rounds in the gun and cycles fine when empty i would place my money on it being a chamber issue, but i am at a loss to explain why a chamber would tighten like that! perhaps a piece of brass cooked into the wall of the chamber, but i would think you would have noticed that either when it ocured or when it left a mark on brass after that.

Big_E
September 5, 2009, 12:32 AM
^^^
Haha I'm sorry usually I can fix problems like these myself but this stumped me too. I have tried shining lights down the chamber but I still get shadows in the nooks and crannies. I will do another cleaning later tonight though hopefully it works out.
Oh and I save all my brass and it is fine save for the minor scratches.

slodsm
September 5, 2009, 11:28 PM
Just to let you know you're not alone, I too had the same problem on a similar rifle.

I bought a R700 in .223 that was the SPS-V model. I put a Nikon Monarch 5-20x44 on it and was it EVER a shooter. Typically it would shoot .46" groups at 100 yards with BH 52 gr ammo off a bag but I had identical problems to you. Always had a scratch that ran the length of the round and the bolt was ridiculous to close with a round in the chamber although easy as it could be empty.

I shot around 500 rds through it to see if it would loosen up with some use but there was never a bit of change in the pressure required to close the bolt or the scratches put on the cases of brass.

My dealer traded another rifle to me and took care of it himself. Damn shame too because it was a great shooting rifle but I have had savages that didn't have those issues and it just irritated me.

I think unfortunately I will be trying the new Winchester M70's next because I have found out that I am by far not the only one having issues with Remingtons QC as of late.

Ron Go
November 6, 2009, 12:04 AM
Hi Guys,
I am new to the forum but came across it looking to see if anyone had the same problem. I just bought a new Remington 700 XCR in 30:06. Prior to putting any rounds through the barrel I decided to cycle the action with some cartridges. In cycling the same 5 cartridges 3-4 time I notice the cases were scratched and so too was the bullet. I decided to slide the bolt slowly to see what was happening. As the bolt moved forward, the bullet tip comes into contact mid way up the feed ramp. It slides tip first over the feed ramp and then the shell neck scrapes over the ramp until the shell is released from the magazine. The scratched from the feed ramp were mild although you could notice some deformation on the bullet tip. Not great if you really think this will affect accuracy.
There were more significant scratches on the metal case which were caused by the magazine lips. As the bolt moved the cartridges forward, the magazine lips cause length-wise scratches. These sctraches are not deep but visible and you can notice them while running you fingernail over the case. After each cartridge was cycled 4 times, there were almost 7-8 scratches on each one.

Since I want this gun for some target shooting (not competition) and also hunting, I wonder if my best bet is to load one cartridge at a time by just laying it on top of the magazine (not putting it in the magazine) and closing the bolt. ALso I plan on getting back into reloading and scratches are a problem that will grow over time.

My plan was to take the same cartridge and cycle it in and out 30 times. I noticed the long lenght-wise scratches caused by exiting the magine are eliminated. I did see some very light scratches on the front half of the cartridge. As the bolt is opened the bullet is held against the right side of the breech by the extractor until it is finally ejected. This causes some minor sctaching. I did notice a mark start around the circumference of the case approx 1/2" from the primer end. This may be due to a burr - I am not sure. I did notice I had to be careful loading the cartridges one at a time this way because there is a chance the bullet tip may stray to one side and hit the area around the bore. This would cause a dent in the front of the bullet.

My question to the group if I may...is this normal for a remington 700 with a bottom plate magazine?

FYI - the bullets I used were not that long - they were 165 gr remington core lock so cartridge length was not a factor.

Many thanks for any comments.

Ron

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