By God I guess the poor man ain't supposed to hunt


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MCgunner
May 30, 2009, 02:04 PM
When I was working, before retirement, I got priced out of deer leases in this state. I found some land, pretty cheap, but for what it is I thought I was getting screwed at 1180 an acre. It's basically marshy pasture when it's wet. Right now it's dry, but when it's wet it's 4x4s or dirt bikes only just to get down to it. It's only 10 acres, isolated with a big ranch on one side. Nothing down there is fenced, lots of deer, hogs when it's wet. When I bought the place, it was ag exempted. For several years, the tax was a buck an acre, 10 bucks total. They took the ag exemption away and it went up to 80 bucks a year total. I was a little miffed, but I though, heck, a lease is a lot more'n that and, well, it's not agricultural anymore, no fence, no stock on it.

Well, in the last several years, it's gone from 80 a year, to 200 a year to 400 last couple of years. I'm thinkin', well, the real estate market is in the tank right now, maybe it'll go down some this year. Maybe they'll re-evaluate it. Well, yeah, they re-evaluated it alright. It went from 2000 an acre evaluation to 4,800 an acre and they want nearly 800 bucks for the taxes!!!!!!! :cuss:

I went down there and protested it last year and, well, it's like arguing with Helen Keller. :banghead: I took pix of it when it was all wet, the "road" that runs to it (path that would grow out of existence without my traffic down there). I guess I'm going to have to sell it. I just can't afford this on my fixed retirement income nor can I justify 800 bucks a year. I can do several good hog hunts for that. I don't need no stinkin' deer anyway, I guess. It's back to ducks for me.

Now, sell it for the evaluated price you say? Yeah, right. 58K for 10 acres of swamp. :rolleyes: You know, these bas####s are supposed to work for us, the tax payer. They're supposed to be our employees. Well, I've never had an employee/employer relationship where the employee could just demand a 120 percent raise in one friggin' year and get it because if he don't, he can take the employer's assets. :rolleyes: Something is REALLY screwed up in this country. And, ya know, this is local taxation. Look what's on the horizon for the feds! Do they want everyone on food stamps? Is it an effort to kill private property rights?:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss: I guess I could put a fence on it for a couple of grand and stick a goat or two on it. I see places like that everywhere. You know it's just for the ag exemption, goats not being all that much a money maker on 10 or 20 acres. :rolleyes:

Thanks for letting me rant.

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DRYHUMOR
May 30, 2009, 02:16 PM
Try to find out what it would take to get it placed back as Ag land.

Maybe plant pecans, pears, pines, etc. Best thing about planting trees is you don't have to make much effort each year, not very labor intensive.

You could plant how you want, and leave a food plot area open, or shooting lanes, etc. Might work out for ya.

Cypress
May 30, 2009, 02:33 PM
A timber exemption would help but they do require you to plant a few trees and give a management plan. Don't feel alone in this. Texas property taxes have made some wild swings in the last few years.

MCgunner
May 30, 2009, 03:01 PM
The only thing that grows there is scrub oak and mesquite and huisache and such. It's sandy, might grow melons. I'd have to fence it to put stock on it of any kind. I'd have to buy a tractor to disc it up. <sigh>

It's really worthless for anything, but grazing and wildlife. There's no farming within 20 miles of it, all pasture. Big ranches like the Lasalle, Cleiborn, Powderhorn, Welder, etc down there.

This land is near Seadrift, Texas. When Seadrift was being developed at the turn of the century, they offered a lot in town and a 5 acre "farm tract" (good chunk to plow with a mule) in the country. Where my place is was the "farm tract" land so it's all divided up in 5 acre tracts on the plat map, though much of it is bigger now days and there are some areas up on higher ground with home up the road a ways.

Something has to be done about the tax problem in Texas. I guess Kay Bailey is getting my vote. She's running on the property tax issue, though who can trust a politician?

Oh, I checked on the new "wildlife exemption" thing, had to have been ag except in the last 2 years. Seems to be more a way to take land out of ag production than to get an exemption for land that doesn't qualify as ag land.

svtruth
May 30, 2009, 03:48 PM
some deer leases of your own?
Good luck.

Hungry Seagull
May 30, 2009, 03:58 PM
....like arguing with Helen Keller...

Love it. I love it.

Edited... veer...

Anyways, consider choosing better hunting somewhere else. Or some way of converting that land to something where you can not have to pay so much each year or even turn it into producing something for revenue.

58K fair price for a swamp that might eat you alive in a few more years in taxes? Hell, I'll take the 58K for that swamp and run. Using the sale and 58,000 dollars to do something else that might be related to things YOU want to do, not feeding the system so much.

They took a few acres of swamp in one of the small towns in this county where I am and filled with with like 8 foot of gravel, then paved it with feet and feet of concrete. Then built a nice new post office.

Ugh. Swamps selling for more than a proper acre of mowed grass these days.

That is my idea. 58K income for sold swamp dont make you poor anymore does it now?

61chalk
May 30, 2009, 04:10 PM
Too many people in office everywhere not doing the right thing for the people, they seem to want to destroy America...you got every right to rant, too many of us are not.

jmr40
May 30, 2009, 04:14 PM
Texans are some of the nicest people I have ever met and the few times I have been through there it is a nice place, but I could not live there because of the lack of public hunting. I could buy into a lease here in Georgia for under $300 but I just prefer to get out and hunt in wild places. There are still roadless tracts of National Forest and WMA land here 30 miles square where hunting is free. I would be a lot more successful on a lease but if I get 1/2 mile from the road I never see another hunter.

MCgunner
May 30, 2009, 04:52 PM
If I can get that kinda money for it, I think I'll put it on the market and look elsewhere or maybe just sit on the money, buy gold, something. I can duck hunt for a while. Now that I'm into the bow, there is public bow hunting around. Guess the rifles and contender will become range toys for a while.

yenchisks
May 30, 2009, 05:04 PM
i just quit hunting,i'll just keep my money thanks.;)cant find or get permission so what you going to do;(

DHolland
May 30, 2009, 05:38 PM
Nueces County?

MCgunner
May 30, 2009, 05:44 PM
Calhoun County

steveracer
May 30, 2009, 06:02 PM
I'm with you, MCgunner. The poor man used to HAVE to hunt to eat. Now it's cheaper to buy food, and MUCH more expensive to hunt. Except birds.
I used to hunt here in VA every year. Now, it's so hard to do, and leases are outrageous, and I refuse to run dogs, so I can't even hunt in NC, and so.... I'm in the same boat. It's becoming like flying. Rich man's sport.
Don't even get me started on bass fishing.

DHolland
May 30, 2009, 06:28 PM
That really sucks. I knew that Nueces County taxes have become outrageous over the past few years, I didn' know Calhoun County was just as bad. I'm in San Pat and it has not been too bad (yet). School taxes on the other hand ... :(

DRYHUMOR
May 30, 2009, 07:05 PM
As with most government ventures...

it's all about the revenue.

I've learned that the only piece of land a man can ever own outright, with no taxes, is the plot he's going to be buried in.

BFE
May 30, 2009, 07:33 PM
As with most government ventures...

it's all about the revenue.

I've learned that the only piece of land a man can ever own outright, with no taxes, is the plot he's going to be buried in.


If they thought they could tax a grave and get away with it they would, why not they tax the heck out of everything else.

Hungry Seagull
May 30, 2009, 07:35 PM
After the cremation and said grave site will be ASSIGNED to both spouse and me due to her Vet status. Our boxes will probably occupy about... 2 feet by 2 feet and one feet deep a few feet down with a govt issued stone.

No, they dont give you land, they assign it to you.

Old Fuff
May 30, 2009, 09:40 PM
See if you can get it designated as a "wetland." If so you can't build on it, and they have to lower the taxes. Had a friend in Michigan that did that. Worked like a charm, and they didn't have any thought of building anything. :evil:

alsaqr
May 30, 2009, 10:21 PM
See if you can get it designated as a "wetland." If so you can't build on it, and they have to lower the taxes.


Yep, the federal wetlands reserve program is a good thing for the current owner: He/she gets big bucks from the gov't but there are big strings attached. There is no grazing or cutting of hay allowed. Hunting is allowed. The re-sale value of the property is drastically reduced in many areas of the country.

I just turned down a piece of OK property that is in the wrp. Every time the creek goes haywire and floods the place, tearing out the fences; the landowner has to pay for repairing those fences.

MCgunner
May 30, 2009, 10:41 PM
Hmmm, hadn't heard of that. I might get some inheritance on that program if my cousins haven't already done it. It really is marsh land, right next to Brazoria Ntl Wildlife Refuge and only accessible by boat. It's 42.5 acres and we don't use it. I'm a little far from there, but wanna do some goose hunting up there sometime. I'd thought of outfitting there for geese and duck hunting, but I'd have to get a USCG captains license to do it, I think. Lots of waterfowl there, but I'd rather just lease it out than have to mess with guiding on the place.

My place here, though, is dry as a bone right now. It was wet for over a year and all the locals know it gets soaked down there, so maybe, just maybe that'd work? It would screw me as far as resale goes, though, so I'll have to mull that one over.

Thanks for THAT idea. I'd not heard of it. Sounds like just the ticket for our 42.5 acre place for sure. I'm going to look into it and talk to my cousins.

edit....

http://www.ncgc.nrcs.usda.gov/programs/wetlands-reserve.html


I might could get that tank dug I've been wanting, too, and big brother could pay for it. I'm not sure I like strings being attached to it all, though, but I'll further research it.

Old Fuff
May 30, 2009, 10:59 PM
My friend's case was a hoot. They ask for a property tax reduction and got nowhere of course. Then they applied for a building permit to put up a BIG house (in a swamp yet). You cant build there! they said, Its a wetland. My friend demanded they put it in writing and got it. With the letter they levered a substantial tax reduction after the building permit request was rejected. The only building they ever allowed was bird's nests. :D

blkbrd666
May 30, 2009, 11:18 PM
If they say it's worth 4,800 an acre, it's a shame you can't divide up one acre into 6 pieces and just give them land in lieu of cash for the taxes. One acre would pay the taxes for the next 6 years if they didn't go up again.

MCgunner
May 30, 2009, 11:35 PM
....if they didn't go up again.


Haaaaa, ha, ha, ha, yeah, right. :rolleyes: I'm afraid if I don't get out now, I'll never see the end of it. They'll bleed me dry. I'll have to sell do Donald Trump, the only man in America into real estate that can pay the taxes.

dacavasi
May 31, 2009, 12:03 AM
I hear ya loud and clear! My appraisal district in central TX has been raising appraisals by 10-15% every year, even though most of the houses being sold are in foreclosure and going for 25-40% below their 2007 appraised value! Sometimes I have to wonder what kind of mind-altering drugs these appraisal districts are consuming whe they dream this crap up!

STARR15
May 31, 2009, 12:52 AM
Greedy one , no doubt.

Art Eatman
May 31, 2009, 08:58 AM
I've had to do a repeat with our local appraisal office. We had a record flood on Terlingua Creek in 2004. I took pictures. My next tax notice showed a big jump in the evaluation; my pictures got it restored to floodplain evaluation.

Danged if this year they didn't jump it again! So, once more with the pictures and once more a restoration to floodplain value.

I guess it's early Alzheimer's in the tax office...

I saw all this hunting-cost problem a long time back, which is why I bought into the Terlingua Ranch deal in 1972. And why I've bought more land around the area, since I moved here in 1983.

In the late 1960s, early 1970s, a group of us leased a ranch near Uvalde for some 83 an acre. 7,000 acres. Paid the school taxes for the rancher. We got outbid by three rich guys from Houston who offered $3/acre. Funeral parlor morticians; I reckon they'll never run out of customers.

It's not a new saying: "The power to tax is the power to destroy."

buck460XVR
May 31, 2009, 10:11 AM
The wetlands thing is a good idea....problem is that it was once classified as ag, and here anyway, it must be wet year round to classify, not just certain times of the year. Here in Wisconsin, rec land taxes have jumped also. Has to do with the mandate that property has to be appraised at true market value. When other folk are willing to pay $4000 dollars an acre for hunting/rec land in the same area, it now makes your hunting/rec land worth $4000 an acre, regardless of what it was worth before. Many here have designated their property as "tree farms" and let the county manage their woodlots. Drops the tax base to affordable levels and yet, you can still restrict access.

qwert65
May 31, 2009, 10:27 AM
coming from NJ be thankful that you can pay 800$ a year to hunt on your own land

MCgunner
May 31, 2009, 10:38 AM
...problem is that it was once classified as ag, and here anyway, it must be wet year round to classify, not just certain times of the year.

Hmm, I wondered about that. Right now, it's dry as a bone. We've been in a bad drought for about a year. We got 3" down there the other day, about 7 here at the house. I drove down there Friday and it's dry as a bone, just soaked it up like a big shamwow. I had some standing water in the yard here at the house, but now it's all gone. Land was so dry it just soaked it up. No, it's not that wet all the time. We have wet years and dry years.

It would DEFINITELY apply to my family's land in Brazoria County, though. My dad is getting on and when he's gone, I'm going to be responsible, I suppose, for my share of the taxes. Cousins wanna do something with that land, but ya can't sell marsh, no one wants it. LOL My uncle and dad tried to sell it for years. My grandpa was a county land tax assessor/land agent, whatever they call 'em, in Brazoria county and bought all this land up for taxes owed around the county for investments. My uncle and dad sold all of it off after his death, but this 42.5 acres they could never find a buyer for. It's definitely wet year round, tidal marsh, salt marsh. Hell, in hurricane Ike, it was 10 feet under water, LOL. My cousin Ginny is a bit of a nature freak and wants to keep the place. I'd like to start hunting there, should be excellent goose hunting, I've been all over that area and there are huge populations of geese and ducks. I never knew where the place was, no roads, only accessible by boat. When I lived there and had a boat, I'd have hunted the place if I'd known where it was. LOL My other cousin and their husbands don't really care about the place, as soon sell it, but if we could get this wetlands exemption thing, they might swing their opinions, if the taxes weren't too bad. Last year, the evaluation was only 800 an acre. Not like it's downtown Houston real estate, LOL. There is even a thing on that site in a PDF file showing a map of Texas where there are properties under the program and there is a dot RIGHT AT where that property is. It is literally only 300 yards by kayak from the NWR headquarters at Brazoria NWR. I've had guys on a duck hunting chat site begging me to lease it to 'em. LOL I think we can take care of the taxes on THAT place. I think this wetlands thing may be the answer to that particular problem, but my property down at Seadrift might not qualify.

The one thing that I do have going for me is that my wife's income increases next year as she'll start getting her retirement checks from the state. One check will pay the taxes on the place. I just have to look at it as the cost of hunting, I guess. I was paying $760 a year for a hunting club 18 years ago. They got up to 1500 a year when I dropped out. They had lands leased all over Texas. The ones near buy weren't to great, but I really miss that lease out at pumpville, 13 miles west of Langtry on Hwy 90 out in the trans pecos. That was a great place to hunt, managed, got my best (okay, most of you trophy hunters would laugh at it) high rack 8 point off that place and saw some REAL wall hangers come off it. I never ceased to have good hunts out there, sorta miss that. But, until I hit the lotto, well, my options are limited in this state. Leasing is not really an option anymore and the taxes seem like a bargain by comparison. I guess you just have to take a demented view of the situation like that to find some justification for it. It's just gotten to the point now that it's hurting and I just wonder WHEN is it ever going to stop, 50 percent increase one year, 120 the next. :rolleyes: Won't be long before the taxes just cannot be justified and it's almost there now for me.

My home is a homestead and my wife's disability gives us an exemption on it. At least I get a break on THAT. We have taxes not only from the county, the school district, and in the case of my house, from the city (you should see the cities take!), but we have a "port authority" which taxes, too! I could move to New Mexico. No port authority there, by God!

Hungry Seagull
May 31, 2009, 10:46 AM
Dont worry. Have we forgotten Gustav, Ike and others so soon?

That water will be back.

I was reading this and it occured to me that the recent rains we had left alot of people in the bottom lands flooded out with no help except to dry out as best as they can.

Is it possible that those who bought land to develop and build houses on known flood plains did so to save money on prop taxes? And the people bought into these homes not thinking about where the water is gonna go when it rains a week as it does here sometimes?

I dont live on a floodplain and have had to implement a project to raise my walk way about 6 inches by stone and field stone so that people can walk to and from the house without getting muddy.

Now I wonder....

In regards to hunting, only had to look into the Smokies or the Alleghenys for deer. Heck you be lucky to GET to the park grounds to hunt without hitting one with the car because there are so many.

buck460XVR
May 31, 2009, 11:05 AM
It's just gotten to the point now that it's hurting and I just wonder WHEN is it ever going to stop, 50 percent increase one year, 120 the next. Won't be long before the taxes just cannot be justified and it's almost there now for

Believe me, you are not alone MC. Altho we like to blame the government and their unbridled spending for the high taxes, the problem on rec land has more to do with the deep pockets of the corporate hunter.....again, if no one was willing to pay $4000 an acre for land, it wouldn't be worth that much.....and it ain't fair to the suburban home owner who pays taxes on the market value of his home, if a rich sugar daddy pays pittance on his rec land that cost even more. A bigger problem around here is that sons/daughters of farmers can't afford to take over the family farm. As a business a 160 acre dairy farm may be worth $200,000.....as rec land it may be worth over $400,000. You can't blame the retiring farmer for selling the farm to the higher bidder, and you can't blame the township for taxing the newly acquired land for what it sold for. I know first hand of several sons that worked on their family farm for 30 years thinking they would buy it from dad when he finally retired, only to lose it to a group of "corporate hunters" that needed a place to ride their four wheelers and "hunt" deer. Unfortunately, hunting, what used to be an working man's option to golf and sailing, and in many cases a supply of fresh meat, is quickly becoming a rich man's sport.

MCgunner
May 31, 2009, 11:11 AM
LOL, a guy bought the place behind me. Now, that place and about 3 acres of my place on the back side is low, so low that it holds water after the rest of the place dries out. I've wanted to dig a tank there for a while, now, would give the hogs water to stick around and give the waterfowl something to land on. I could have some great duck hunting there. It's just down the road to Espiritu Santos bay and Matagorda Island is across the bay, big numbers of waterfowl coming off roosts to the mainland to feed every morning. We have some great goose hunting on the rice fields south of town every year. Many of those thousands of geese roost on the island. There are even cat tails back there on his place where it's really low. It's dry and that guy just bought the place, moved a camper trailer and a larger mobile home in there for camp houses. Soon as we get one of those torrential rains, those trailers could float on over to my place, LOL! I've seen that whole place he has under water many times, ducks landing on it in the mornings. Makes for something interesting to watch from the deer stand. Little does he know.......

Hungry Seagull
May 31, 2009, 11:15 AM
I recall one farm bought at a handsome price so that it may be turned into a airport runway capable of taking BWI/Dulles Traffic. The authorities fought the holdouts for a very long time until finally the price paid for that farm was simply too sweet and they cashed out.

We lost much acreage and it showed in the following year's markets around the area.

If it cost a thousand dollars a year to pay a lease to hunt or whatever, would it not be cheaper to take a trip to a Nebraska or other hunting lodges for a few days to a week of hunting as part of a small group of like minded folks once a year or something?

MCgunner
May 31, 2009, 11:23 AM
If it cost a thousand dollars a year to pay a lease to hunt or whatever, would it not be cheaper to take a trip to a Nebraska or other hunting lodges for a few days to a week of hunting as part of a small group of like minded folks once a year or something?

See, that's another thing. Now, New Mexico has gone up on out of state licensing since I last hunted there, but 51 percent of that state is public, open to hunting. I know the Guadalupe mountains area quite well and love to hunt up there, all spot and stalk, no feeder watching, BEAUTIFUL vistas like you've died and gone to heaven. A good camper to stay in and shower, and hey, I could spend 3 weeks up there during black powder season and just big giddy with happy hunting grounds. I could buy a nice used, small travel trailer and put the rest of that cash I got from selling the place into gold or something for the time being. Heck, it only takes me a day's driving to get up there in those mountains.

Now, we come to another problem, Barry O's proposed cap and trade legislation, the price of gasoline in the future. 350 bucks or so for an out of state license and 600 for gas to get out there and back? LOL. You just can't win for losing.

Hungry Seagull
May 31, 2009, 11:36 AM
Yes I believe that we are being herded into a corner or corraled.

Question becomes, how do we make it stop? I hate to be writing a clipboard a required IRS form every time a quarter horse passes gas to turn into uncle sam every tax time.

jmorris
May 31, 2009, 11:45 AM
We have cattle for no other reason than to save on taxes. You might see if you can gain exemption by bailing hay, might be easier that going the tree farm route. I wonder if you could get a goat and just let it go out there. It won’t hang around long but you could show them a receipt of your “live stock” and it would be much cheaper to buy a goat a year than pay taxes in Texas. Oh, if you are waiting for Kay to fix your problems your in more trouble than I thought.

MCgunner
May 31, 2009, 04:29 PM
I could run an ad for someone to bail it, i guess, but they're kinda sticky on what's agricultural.

I went down there today with my son-in-law and put out a feeder and walked the place. Hogs have been in there rooting the dry ground up. I'm thinkin' they're coming at night looking for something to eat. My place is un-molested by cattle, just let the grass grow, what little grass is growing right now. The ranch next to me is over-grazed, been so dry. Lots of deer sign, too, as is always. It was good to get out with my little .357 lever gun and walk around if nothing else.

We set up the feeder in a new spot, mots on four sides of it with scrub oaks within 25 yards, like a little amphitheater, and in view of my big stand about 60 yards away. I figure to set up a ground blind in the mot to the north side of it, about 20 yards, for bow season. I'll let the boy hunt it on weekends and I'll just go down there mid week. We put some high protein stuff made to be fed from a feeder to help out the deer, poor sods, they have to be hurting right now. Should be a good season, should be a weak acorn crop. I hope to tag at least a doe with the bow. I've never really hunted, but once with a bow and I wasn't as good with it as now.

.45Guy
June 1, 2009, 12:40 PM
Awwww Hell McGunner, plant some asparagus crowns, and let her ride. It's one of the least labor intensive crops, and you could make a few bucks on the side. BTW, it thrives in sandy soils as well.

bearmgc
June 1, 2009, 01:15 PM
Fer cryin out loud. Come to Wyoming.

MCgunner
June 1, 2009, 02:20 PM
I can't stand the thought of not hunting ducks and geese in the salt marsh. :D New Mexico is a fine place to live and hunt except for that.

Hell, if it really IS going up at the rate the county says it's going up, at least the investment is doing better than my mutual funds!!! Hmm, a few more years and sell out, get a trailer and hit the road during hunting season, screw it! Maybe I can meet some of you guys on the road, then. :D A hunting camp in the mountains is kinda lonely by yourself. ROAD TRIP!

bearmgc
June 1, 2009, 02:49 PM
Solitude is a place you arrive at, not strive for. Loneliness is just a stop along the way. Happy hunting to ya.

logjam
June 1, 2009, 09:13 PM
You can come to central Oregon and hunt almost everywhere. Course the woods are full of other guys doing the same thing. So keep your head down.


I agree that it's a crying shame that we can't hunt as we used to, which was almost anywhere there were wood.

Art Eatman
June 2, 2009, 10:35 AM
I wuz in beautiful downtown Pumpville, not long back. It didn't look like it had gotten better with age. :D:D:D

McG, find a little piece of dirt in New Mexico, some little fixer-upper house in Nowhere, southeast NM, and become an on-paper resident there. The non-resident hunting license in Texas is a bunch cheaper. Your wife can continue as a Texas resident.

MCgunner
June 2, 2009, 10:48 AM
McG, find a little piece of dirt in New Mexico, some little fixer-upper house in Nowhere, southeast NM, and become an on-paper resident there. The non-resident hunting license in Texas is a bunch cheaper. Your wife can continue as a Texas resident.

Hmm, now THERE's an idea..........

MCgunner
June 2, 2009, 01:09 PM
BTW, Art, what the heck would anyone wanna go to Pumpville for if not to hunt? ROFLMAO! That would be like me driving from here to North Zulch or maybe Old Dime Box. They do have a fiddlin' contest, or used to, in North Zulch every year. I guess if you know someone there, maybe? LOL!

Our lease was 13,000 acres. Turn on the road to pumpville off Hwy 90, we had the land on all sides of that intersection. I liked an area off the left of that road, through a gate, through a couple of pastures to the back. It had cliffs and little canyons and dry washes and was lots of fun to spot and stalk. There was a particular dry wash out there FULL of game. No one else in the club seemed to know about this area, most preferred to hunt stands near a feeder. I liked walking and spotting and this section and a half of pasture was perfect for that. I sure miss that place. I always at least got a doe and had some great hunts out there. We were allowed one doe and one buck per trip plus the Javelina and scaled quail were fun to chase. Rabbits everywhere, I had fun just shootin' rabbits for camp meat!

Vern Humphrey
June 2, 2009, 02:32 PM
Forty years ago, when I got back from my second tour in Viet Nam, I bought my own place -- 160 wooded, remote acres with a creek running through it, and a big swimming/fishing hole. It cost $50 an acre.

Ten years ago, I built my house there.

The secret is to be far-sighted and buy your own land early.

JESmith
June 2, 2009, 02:36 PM
McGunner -- look into managed wildlife exemptions. (not sure it is available on 10 acres though) It is a little paperwork and you have to have a management plan but it gives you pretty much the same exemption as agriculture. You usually have to plant food plots, set up game cams and count deer, etc. Another thought is to "lease your land real cheap" as pasture land to a neighboring ranch. If it is leased as pasture land, you can then take an ag. exemption.

Double Naught Spy
June 2, 2009, 04:05 PM
McG, find a little piece of dirt in New Mexico, some little fixer-upper house in Nowhere, southeast NM, and become an on-paper resident there. The non-resident hunting license in Texas is a bunch cheaper. Your wife can continue as a Texas resident.

If he can't afford taxes, I am not sure how he is going to be able to afford buying a new property in another state or the gas to commute.

~z
June 2, 2009, 05:26 PM
As far as the wetland thing goes, it does not have to be wet all year to be a wetland. All you need is to support wetland veg, have hydric soil indicators, and hydrology. These 3 criteria make it a wetland.
~z

MCgunner
June 2, 2009, 07:22 PM
If he can't afford taxes, I am not sure how he is going to be able to afford buying a new property in another state or the gas to commute.

They're telling me that crap is worth 4800 an acre. If I sold it for that, I could probably turn it into 100 acres easily in New Mexico. However, that's pretty much a back yard in the desert, LOL. I'm sure that 10 acres would support more head of goats than 100 acres in NM, too. But, a cabin near a national forest would be what I'd be after, wouldn't have to be that much.

Gas, well, that could be a problem in the future.

Cypress
June 2, 2009, 09:12 PM
I've never seen dirt that wouldn't grow peas. 5 acres of peas would bring the deer in too. Lots of folks up here get ag exemptions on pea patches on small tracts.

MCgunner
June 2, 2009, 09:33 PM
Damn, I need a small tractor.

Quoheleth
June 2, 2009, 10:03 PM
McGunner,
Come up to Liberty County. Up towards Hardin, lots of good ol' boys are leasing property for reasonable prices. Hogs, deer and ducks.

Correction: this is what I have been told. I don't hunt, unless invited [read: for free], so I don't worry about hunting lands for myself.

Q

hogmanahoo.com
June 5, 2009, 10:30 AM
pay to hunt?

Art Eatman
June 5, 2009, 11:09 AM
hogman, folks have been paying to hunt on private lands since way, way back. The last thirty or so years have seen prices go way up.

Even on "free" public land you have to buy a license. You're from Oregon? Check out your cost to hunt in, say, Colorado.

Over-simplified: Back when half the workforce lived on-farm or on-ranch, there was plenty of room in which to hunt. A lesser percentage of city folks were hunters. Folks moved to town, made money, and then some of them began to bid against each other for places to hunt--which naturally raised the cost of having fun.

The environmental movement got a bunch of city people interested in the outdoors, and many wanted to get into hunting. At the same time, the numbers of "good ol' country boy" hunters declined just because there are fewer good ol' country boys.

Frustrating and aggravating, but nothing abnormal or unexpected. At least the Texas Parks & Wildlife folks have actively worked at helping the po' folks find low-cost places. They have been, for over twenty years.

MCgunner
June 5, 2009, 11:22 AM
I buy an APH (permit to the "free" hunting lands, 48 bucks) every year and I get my money's worth just in waterfowl hunting. There's lots of good dove hunting on that program, too. Deer, well, if you don't live near there where you can scout year round (all in the east Texas piney woods), it ain't that great. There's some hog hunting areas that I've not tried and should. There's plenty of great small game hunting on that system, some of the best in the state.

Hell, if I sold my place and got a small travel trailer, I could make better use of that permit if nothing else. I'm not really all about deer hunting, anyway. I like to eat hogs, though, and I do love to squirrel hunt in the spring. I grew up hunting squirrel from before I was a teen. It's how I learned. We lived in a live oak bottom near a creek. It was full of squirrel.

Vern Humphrey
June 5, 2009, 11:30 AM
The question I have is, why would anyone expect to hunt free on private land? Would you expect someone to allow you to live in his house for free?

Art Eatman
June 5, 2009, 11:14 PM
Vern, back in the "used to be", it was fairly common to be able to get hunting permission from a landowner, without money being involved. Not everywhere, of course, but fairly common.

Back when I was a kid, every farmer around knew that a fair number of us were all over the countryside with our .22s. With no history of any "Oops!", nobody was particularly concerned.

Skoghund
June 6, 2009, 03:52 AM
What Art says is equally true here in Sweden. With the move away from the country side there are more townie hunters. Town based hunters who are willing to pay big moneyto be in a hunting team. Not forgetting the Danish and German hunters who are willing to pay big money to hunt here.
You can't blame farmers and forest owners for wanting to cash in on this as times are hard. Not forgetting that farmers suffer with the problem of short arms and deep pockets;).
We are lucky as we don't have a yearly tax on farming, forest land.
We do have public hunting land but it still cost for permits.

Vern Humphrey
June 6, 2009, 08:31 AM
Nowadays, a man who doesn't post his land gets taken advantage of.

When a known meth dealer starts running his 4-wheeler up and down the trails on your property, you put up "No Trespassing signs and patrol your land.

41 Mag
June 6, 2009, 08:53 AM
MC,

I can certainly relate to your situation. The wife and I purchased 10 acres in Anderson county last year a mile up the road from my mom's place. I admit I paid a bit more than I wanted to, but the place already had power and was on the right side of the road to connect to water.

When we got everything settled and went to the tax office the original folks had it under Ag and the tax was $48 a year. They figured it would be somewhere around 400 for us seeing we weren't going that route. Got my statement in and it was just under a grand. When I appealed it they said that it was due to the surrounding property values going at such high prices it brought everything up. WE went and looked around and it was absurd at some of the prices they are getting for small tracts of 1-5 acres.

We looked into every which a way to exempt it, but we are either to small for the wildlife (min of 19 acres), or will have to harvest the timber, (which was the main reason we purchased it in the first place), or clear enough of it to graze several cows (got to have x amount of pasture per cow). Right now our only option is to homestead it, and we will have to purchase a travel trailer to get that. Any way you slice it it totally sucks. If we put up anything with out wheels on it they will up the taxes and that will override the homestead.

As to the wetlands deal, friends of ours had areas on their place declared wetlands by the feds, who came out during one rain soaked year. They did a survey of the whole area and then posted notices on all of the properties which applied in that area. Bad thing is they can do absolutely nothing with these areas even though now they aren't wet. They had water on them when the survey was done due to the unconditional amount of rain they had that one particular year.

ilbob
June 6, 2009, 09:13 AM
Someone has to pay the taxes to support all the illegals.

Art Eatman
June 6, 2009, 10:10 AM
Re land prices: I read an article in "Range" magazine some years back, titled, "Five Acres, Five Miles From Town". That became a national fad for folks trying to escape cities yet keep the city lifestyle. I watched land prices around Thomasville, Georgia, go from around $400 an acre for tracts in the 20- to 200-acre size on up into the thousands of dollars per acre.

The tax folks loved it.

As we go back to oil above $100/bbl, a lot of these people are gonna be in deep doo-doo. Add in this carbon tax deal, and the cost of living outside of town will skyrocket. It won't be an overnight thing, but there's gonna be a bunch of decline in the price of land. This depression we're getting into won't help rural living, either.

MCgunner
June 6, 2009, 10:16 AM
41 Mag, that story sounds very familiar, especially the account of the protest. LOL! I think my only real solution is to sell it, but it's such good hunting down there and I know that I will have a hard time ever finding such a small tract with so much game on it anywhere else. Over the years, this place has given me much joy, and even when I was in that hunting club, I knew I had a place 25 miles from the house to play on as back up if I couldn't afford the club, which eventually happened.

Fortunately, my wife starts getting her state retirement checks next year, will significantly help out. One check will take care of the place. She gripes that "it's YOUR land, I don't hunt on it!" to which I tell here when it's sold, it'll be half HER money, right? LOL I paid for it, sure, but I also paid for the house and have paid all the utilities and bills for the last 30 years. I have that trump card to hold over her, LOL, but we've already decided that extra money goes into a savings since neither of us need it for bills. So, it'll be available for the taxes and I already have this years about saved up. What really peeves me about it is that I'd figured on buying another firearm at the end of the year, but now, I have to pay taxes with it, LOL!!!!!

Oh, well, I guess I'll hang on to it for a while. I'm over the initial shock. Now, if it keeps going up at the rate it has for the last five years, from 200 a year to 800, all bets are off. If it breaks out over a grand and don't liook like it's going to stop, I might just sell the place and weep for my lack of hunting every season. That's kinda what scares me, when or where will it ever stop going up?????? I just CAN'T be the only one in Texas that has these concerns, either.

My home is modest, wood frame, 2 bedroom, wood frame pier and beam construction. It went up 50 percent, but we have enough with the homestead exemption and my wife's disability exemption that it is under 400 bucks. I have talked to folks with big homes in urban areas like Harris County that say they pay 400-800 a month in TAXES on their HOMES!!!! :eek: At least I don't have THAT problem. Of course, I intentionally didn't get extravagant when I bought this house. It's got a nice location overlooking the bay on a high bluff and I've worried about the location screwing me on the taxes in the future, but there aren't that many homes on this street, sorta the main drag into town, commercial zoned. I'd hate to have the tax bill of the folks across the street, though, that have bay front and a HUGE home. OUCH. But, that guy is rich, so he can afford it, LOL. He probably looks over here and makes comments about the redneck neighbors, LOL. They have an electric gate and they don't exactly do the community thing.

But, if the taxes keep going up as they have been in Texas, it's going to have to start hurting even those with 6 figure incomes like the guy across the street since they tend to have the big, fancy homes to pay the taxes on. If I'm paying over a grand a year for 10 acres of undeveloped land and my house, what could THAT guy be paying!? Sheesh! He might have money, but he's got to be POed at the way the taxes are eating him, too. Something's going to break somewhere. I just don't think it can keep going up by 50 to 120 percent per year forever. At some point, people are going to take up arms and kill the tyrants if they still refuse to listen, armed revolt! J/K, but you get my point.

As we go back to oil above $100/bbl, a lot of these people are gonna be in deep doo-doo. Add in this carbon tax deal, and the cost of living outside of town will skyrocket.

Hmm, well, maybe there's hope after all. The back side of that is BIG numbers for a gallon of gasoline. God, ya can't win for losing! I can always get down to my place, though, on my little 200cc motorcycle that gets 60-80 to the gallon, little 2 wheeled jeep. I'll probably have to scrap the van, though, LOL!

mbt2001
June 8, 2009, 01:54 PM
donate the land to some foundation and take the right off on your taxes.

paintballdude902
June 8, 2009, 02:21 PM
look into leaving it to Ducks unlimited in a trust i think you get a good sized tax break and it can never be developed

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