.30-30 for elk?


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joshk-k
June 1, 2009, 12:26 PM
Hi all!

I've never hunted an elk before but would like to this fall in NW Oregon. I would like to use my lever action .30-30, possibly with a peep sight on it. From reading around and talking with neighbors, it seems like many shots are taken within the .30-30's range, although I know I won't be able to "reach out and touch them." As far as stopping power goes, though, is a .30-30 an appropriate cartridge for an elk?

Josh

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shaggy430
June 1, 2009, 12:28 PM
1000's of elk have been killed with a .30-30. Just keep the shots to within reasonable range.

jmorris
June 1, 2009, 12:30 PM
If you hang around here long enough you’ll find someone that’s killed a water buffalo with a squirt gun; however, a 30-30 is a little on the small side for Elk IMO.

MutinousDoug
June 1, 2009, 12:57 PM
Your 30-30 is "adequate" for elk at reasonable ranges. Not an ideal cartridge but not a reason to buy another gun either, unless you intend to shoot across canyon at them.

Doug

countertop
June 1, 2009, 01:08 PM
If you hang around here long enough you’ll find someone that’s killed a water buffalo with a squirt gun; however, a 30-30 is a little on the small side for Elk IMO.

Huh??? Why??

Since when is a .30 caliber on the small side?? Sure, its not going to be the gun to go to for a 250 yard shot - but if your within 100 yards there's no reason you couldn't use a .30-30 (unless your a writer at a gun mag or work for an ammo company - and then of course the only thing worthy of an ELK is the newest short_long_magnum_kaboomer)

bearmgc
June 1, 2009, 01:14 PM
Definitely with good placement. They make factory ammo 30-30 in 170gr Nosler Partition. I'd use that.

MCgunner
June 1, 2009, 02:26 PM
If you can get close enough. I'd rather have my .308 or 7 mag, but heck, .30-30 has killed about everything that walks North America including the big bears. I know an old fellow that was an indian agent after the war in Alaska. He said the Inuit used .30-30 for everything up there back in those days, was about the only caliber they could get ammo for, I reckon. Just gotta know how to apply the tool.

cyclopsshooter
June 1, 2009, 02:33 PM
hornaday leverrevolution ammo, look at it- should give you another 50 yards at least

ArmedBear
June 1, 2009, 02:56 PM
The .30-30 was once more commonly used for elk than it is now.

Of course, back then, hunters usually had good horses with them, stayed out for weeks at a time, didn't have to apply for tag lotteries, and didn't mind tracking their wounded prey for miles, sometimes losing it altogether...

As far as stopping power goes, though, is a .30-30 an appropriate cartridge for an elk?


I think the best answer is, "No."

I know someone who dropped an elk with a neck shot at a fairly decent range with a .22-250, though. That's just what he had in his hand when the elk popped up, and he had a tag. It's still a story passed around this group of hunters, with the caveat that you shouldn't go out LOOKING for elk, carrying a .22-250.

Barnes does make a TSX for .30-30. That ought to help the old cartridge in terms of effectiveness. I'd be more inclined to go TSX than LE. The LE round's advantage probably comes into play at 100+ yards. What you want is something that's as effective as possible out TO 100 yards.

Do you not have access to anything but a .30-30?

Arkansas Paul
June 1, 2009, 03:00 PM
Don't take anything but a picture perfect broadside shot. The .30-30 will kill any elk, or any other animal for that matter if conditions are perfect. If he is quartering away however, it may lack the punch neccessary to get the bullet where it will do the most good.

bearmgc
June 1, 2009, 03:06 PM
Be real guys. Good placement at reasonable distance for caliber will put meat on the table. Been there done that. If he is serious about 30-30 for elk, he will practice like a maniac, use a good bullet design and go for it.Don't be snobbish. I'm from Wyoming.

NELSONs02
June 1, 2009, 03:08 PM
Well I often take down water buffalo with a squirt gun so a 30-30 should be fine for elk.

ArmedBear
June 1, 2009, 03:10 PM
if conditions are perfect

That's the key.

In the real world, that's a reason to use a cartridge that some people call "overkill." Conditions are seldom perfect.

I'm not advocating .338-378 Weatherby as a minimum for hunting coyotes or anything. But a little more bullet weight, a little bigger caliber, a little more velocity than the bare minimum required can be a good thing.

Sometimes, there are posts that seem to suggest that you get "extra points" for hunting with the lightest possible caliber. I think that pushes the boundaries of hunting ethics.

bearmgc
June 1, 2009, 03:17 PM
I'm assuming that he is asking about the 30-30 because that's what he has to use. A bigger caliber wil not insure a kill if placement is not right. A bigger caliber with smigging is a widely held, AND dispelled myth. I appreciate the concern for good conditions with a 30-30, but facts remain. A good ol 170gr Nosler Partion in the boiler room will, not likely disappoint.

NELSONs02
June 1, 2009, 03:26 PM
If guys can kill elk with a bow then a 30-30 should work just fine.

Thats my logic at least.

bearmgc
June 1, 2009, 03:32 PM
Whoo hoo, logic. I like it. Good logic. Once again, simple but profound response, alluding to those who Do not drink the hype kool aide.

3pairs12
June 1, 2009, 03:36 PM
30-30 has probably killed more elk in the history of centerfired rifles than any other caliber.Sure it has its limitations but stay within them and you will be fine.

bearmgc
June 1, 2009, 03:48 PM
Exactly. There's no implied effort to hunt with with the "lightest caliber possible." That's simply what the fellow has to hunt with. No extrapolations needed. Today's world might mirror that of the 1930's, with gun available, and meat needed. I can really relate to that. No need to get technical, when years of experience has already spoken to this issue.

.333 Nitro Express
June 1, 2009, 04:17 PM
I seem to recall a survey taken about 10 years ago, about which caliber was the most used for Elk in Utah, Wyoming, Colorado and Montana--the .300 Win Mag was ahead of the others.

Unfortunately, load and ballistics were not in the survey.

However, ballistics of the .300 Win Mag and the .30-06, both with a 180-gr bullet, are not that wildly dissimilar--in factory form, we're talking 100-200fps, give or take.

I don't see the .30-06 at all as a bad choice for elk--provided the bullet is well-constructed, it has good sectional density and it is not used wildly for cross-canyon shots, as someone else has observed.

Know what shots to pass up, and you'll do well with a 30-30, as our grandfathers surely did.

Big Bill
June 1, 2009, 04:30 PM
All I hunted with here in Idaho till I was almost 30 yo was my pre 64 Winchester 30-30 and it was all I needed for the elk I killed.

joshk-k
June 1, 2009, 08:39 PM
Thanks for all the answers, although the verdict still seems up in the air. For the record, I also have a scoped .30-06, that I think probably in general would be a better elk gun. I just haven't shot it very much (I only get to shoot maybe three or four times a year), and feel more comfortable with my .30-30. I was thinking about getting some aperture sights for it to help with better target acquisition in the woods.

Keep the thoughts and advice coming, please!

Josh

logjam
June 1, 2009, 09:00 PM
Truthfully and as someone has already written many thousands of elk have been taken with a 30-30. Us the right bullet and keep shoots to where you can hit the vital area and shoot your 30-30. It should work just fine.

For several generations, in the early 1900's, a 30-30 was considered fine for just about everything on this continent. While I'd like something more powerful if I was hunting big bears and probably elk and moose just to be on the safe side. The 30-30 is still deadly on most game that we find here.

flipajig
June 1, 2009, 10:11 PM
Shoot what you feel comfortable with so that you can make a ethical shot. Look at the balistics of the two a 06 is running around 2500 to 2800 a 3030 is running 1700 to 2200rpms. using a 170grn and a 180grn bullet. all this will do is extend your range and energy in ft lbs. You take a 3030 with in its range of 100 to 175 yds and with a well placed shot will take down a Elk. Also JOSK-K said that he is more comfortable with his 3030. You can have the biggest baddest mag money can buy but if you cant shoot it your better off shooting a 22LR.

gimlet1/21
June 1, 2009, 11:13 PM
Who has ever incountered a 400 yard shot in the woods. Granted I've never hunted out west, FL., SC,and VT. I've declined on 200 yd shots and taken 150 yd shot with my 30-30.

lgbloader
June 1, 2009, 11:26 PM
If you hang around here long enough you’ll find someone that’s killed a water buffalo with a squirt gun

What do you recken the minimum caliber squirt gun needed to properly take down a water buffalo is?...

LGB

AKElroy
June 1, 2009, 11:33 PM
I have never hunted elk, but I have hunted all South Texas has to offer most my life. Since most of that has been with scoped .270's & 7 mags, I was always in the camp of using too much gun. My Grandad always filled his tag (as if he ever bought a license) with his 94, and I always marveled in my youthful ignorance at the thought of a .30-30 actually taking a puny 90 lb deer cleanly. Just could not be possible. After getting some actual grown-up experience taking a nice cull buck with a borrowed 94, I began the search for a clean 94. Now for the "widow at church" story---Her husband passed away 30 years ago, having never shot his 1960-ish 94. I asked her if $275.00 sounded fair & she jumped at it. First deer taken with it was a decent 90 lb doe offhand @ 140 paces. Broke her neck cleanly. The great things about this gun in 1894 are the same great things about it today. You can always have it with you, it is as light as a stick, it points where you want to shoot & sends rounds to that spot, and it re-loads like lightening. I would LOVE to take it elk hunting--That would be an awesome experience. Choose the right load, get very familiar gauging distance & hitting at those ranges, and enjoy the experience of a lifetime. It is MORE than enough gun, any distance limitations will only serve to make you do your part as a hunter. If you do flub a shot, it is comforting to have a near instant follow-up while barley changing your sight picture.

Demitrios
June 1, 2009, 11:45 PM
I gave MAELSTROM a few sheets of 1/8th inch thick galvanized steel. He cut out 8 silhouettes and stacked them onto a half inch thick piece of plywood. His 30-30 still went through it, now I understand that Elk is not stacks of galvanized steel and the bullets will do different things to both targets but I think it's safe to say that it'll do the trick.

jmorris
June 2, 2009, 12:09 AM
Quote:
If you hang around here long enough you’ll find someone that’s killed a water buffalo with a squirt gun; however, a 30-30 is a little on the small side for Elk IMO.

Huh??? Why??

One can cite numerous accounts of how well the .223 has dispatched deer sized (+) game (and it can) and we all know that the 30-06 has killed everything that has been roaming the earth since its existence. The fact remains that a .177 pellet rifle shot CAN kill anything but how good are your feet (more importantly, how good is your shot placement). The only thing that can replace marksmanship is a really tall cliff and a lot of people. I am (or my feet are) of the opinion that there is no such thing as too dead. I didn’t mean to take anything away from the 30-30 (I even have one somewhere).

Why can't, for once, someone start a 460 WBY mag for rabbit thread?

Art Eatman
June 2, 2009, 10:22 AM
Look: The whole deal is the hunter's skill as a shooter--as well as his hunting skills.

The only real drawback to the .30-30 has little to do with the cartridge. It's the fact that the sights are not of the best, and many shooters can't shoot accurately beyond 100 to 150 yards. A buckhorn sight mounted out on the barrel is not a precision instrument. Some folks do okay; some don't.

Harve Curry
June 2, 2009, 10:30 AM
American Indians still use a Winchester 30-30 around here for elk and everythng else, it's a all around rifle still.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 2, 2009, 12:30 PM
Well, I dunno about you guys, but I find that a water/squirt RIFLE to feel like I'm cheating when it comes to large bull African Elephants - I prefer the challenge of a squirt PISTOL - but hey, that's just me. My backup sidearm for defense against a charge is a spitwad & straw from Sonic, in a strongside holster.

mljdeckard
June 2, 2009, 12:37 PM
I'm completely with armedbear.

I look at it this way. If a 30-30 is the ballistic twin of 7.62x39, why not use my SKS for elk? I could do it, but it certainly wouldn't be the first bat I would bring to this ballgame.

I currently use .270 for all big game hunting, but if I were more serious about hunting elk, I would probably get a 7 mag. (I may HAVE to. The elk seem to be pushing more and more into deer territory.)

Harve Curry
June 2, 2009, 02:04 PM
If the bow and arrow that is used for deer can be used on elk, then why not the venerable 30-30? It's the hunter, shot placement, and the range.

ArmedBear
June 2, 2009, 02:22 PM
The OP asked "in terms of stopping power."

That, in itself, makes comparisons to archery irrelevant.

It also means that he is not asking, "Will the elk, when shot with a .30-30, eventually die?"

It seems that, no matter what, any question about the use of a marginal caliber for hunting a given animal will get a series of answers that say it's plenty and that proper skill is all that matters. The more extreme seem to imply that anything more than a .22LR is just "magnumitis."

I don't think you'll find, say, a really experienced hunter and guide -- someone who has seen a lot of elk shot -- who will say that skill doesn't matter. However, I sincerely doubt that you'll find one who says that the bullet and caliber chosen don't matter.

If the answer is always, "Sure! That's PLENTY!" then we should just make it a sticky.

Vern Humphrey
June 2, 2009, 02:24 PM
If you've never hunted elk, why handicap yourself?

Someone who has taken dozens of elk, knows elk hunting and his hunting territory, and can shrug his shoulders and turn away from a less than perfect shot can certainly use a .30-30.

But a man who has never killed elk, and who might be tempted to take a difficult shot as his "only chance" would be better served with something like a .30-06 with a premium bullet, or a 7mm Rem Mag -- again with a heavy premium bullet.

ArmedBear
June 2, 2009, 02:52 PM
I always marveled in my youthful ignorance at the thought of a .30-30 actually taking a puny 90 lb deer cleanly. Just could not be possible.

No offense, but a deer that weighs under 100 lbs. has little to do with an elk, other than that they're both 4-legged herbivores. At least in Idaho, elk bucks bulls can be more than 10 TIMES that size.

http://imnh.isu.edu/digitalatlas/bio/mammal/Hoofed/elk/elkfrm.htm

Elk, for hunting purposes, is not just a somewhat taller, stouter deer. It's a larger animal, by an order of magnitude.

To put it another way, a large jackrabbit compares to a 90 lb. deer, as that deer compares to a buck bull elk.

The size range of Rocky Mountain Elk overlaps with North American Bison (450-1000+ lbs. vs. 850-2200 lbs.).

Just food for thought...

Vern Humphrey
June 2, 2009, 03:08 PM
No offense, but a deer that weighs under 100 lbs. has little to do with an elk, other than that they're both 4-legged herbivores. At least in Idaho, elk bucks can be more than 10 TIMES that size.
And in my experience, you want to break bone when you shoot an elk -- because a wounded elk will go places that will leave you with a lung-busting job to pack out his carcass.

So I say, choose a cartridge and bullet that can break large, heavy bones and plow on to the vitals.

mljdeckard
June 2, 2009, 03:51 PM
I agree. My dad happened on a party this fall that had wounded an elk. We tried to track it for two days. They caught a glimpse of it on a hilltop, but couldn't get a shot at it. I heard somewhere that elk have a lot more exterior body fat, and very commonly, if you don't get a critical hit, they will bleed slowly.

swiftak
June 2, 2009, 03:54 PM
I know a guy that killed his moose in NH with a 30-30. I would use mine to kill a moose or an elk. Like a couple of the guys said, be resonable with the ranges.

Vern Humphrey
June 2, 2009, 04:09 PM
My dad happened on a party this fall that had wounded an elk. We tried to track it for two days. They caught a glimpse of it on a hilltop, but couldn't get a shot at it. I heard somewhere that elk have a lot more exterior body fat, and very commonly, if you don't get a critical hit, they will bleed slowly.
Not only that, they will head for some of the most god-awful terrain you ever saw.

I once tracked a small band of elk (none of them wounded, thank heavens) until they started slabbing on a steep icy slope. I realized I couldn't possibly keep my footing following them, and if I slipped, I'd fall and slide a couple of hundred feet or so.

Going where a wounded elk will go, then packing out the meat, antlers and hide is a gut-wrenching job.

ArmedBear
June 2, 2009, 04:43 PM
LOL

BULL elk. Not "buck elk."

That's what happens when I look through a bunch of DFG lit, type up something quick and leave the office.:)

saturno_v
June 2, 2009, 06:37 PM
If a 30-30 is the ballistic twin of 7.62x39, why not use my SKS for elk? I could do it, but it certainly wouldn't be the first bat I would bring to this ballgame.


Because the 7.62 X 39 and the 30-30 are not ballistic twins (at least up to 100 yards or even a bit more)...that's why....I cannot believe this nonsense is still around...

Careful handloading bring a 170 gr, 30-30 bullet well over 2000 ft/lb territory....a 123 gr 7.62 X 39 is a 1500-1600 ft/lb round at best...more power, heavier bullet, more SD for the 30-30

The OP asked "in terms of stopping power."

That, in itself, makes comparisons to archery irrelevant.

It also means that he is not asking, "Will the elk, when shot with a .30-30, eventually die?"

It seems that, no matter what, any question about the use of a marginal caliber for hunting a given animal will get a series of answers that say it's plenty and that proper skill is all that matters. The more extreme seem to imply that anything more than a .22LR is just "magnumitis."

I don't think you'll find, say, a really experienced hunter and guide -- someone who has seen a lot of elk shot -- who will say that skill doesn't matter. However, I sincerely doubt that you'll find one who says that the bullet and caliber chosen don't matter.

If the answer is always, "Sure! That's PLENTY!" then we should just make it a sticky.


While is true that the venerable 30 WCF is on the light side for Elk you cannot deny that there are people nowdays that consider a 300 Win Mag the minimum for whitetail...

The fact that anbything above 22 LR is considered by some "magnumitis" it's a gross exaggeration.....of course you need some minimum power to get the job done and nobody would advocate a 223 for elk...

That said the 30-30 is not a pop gun especially within 100-150 yards.....it's always the same story....there are guys that feel well protected with a 454 Casull revolver against a grizzly but consider the 30-30 marginal on deer...go figure!!!

ArmedBear
June 2, 2009, 06:46 PM
nobody would advocate a 223 for elk...

I'm surprised you wouldn't. You can push it above 1400 ft-lbs.:rolleyes:

BTW do people imagine that elk hunting involves an animal that stands still at 50 yards and waits for you to get a perfect shot?

Elk, for all their heft, run like deer. But they don't freeze like deer. They just run. And they live in the mountains. Not "mountains" like in the East, but actual mountains, like 12,000 foot mountains, with a lot of steep slopes, deep canyons, and cliffs.

Ben Shepherd
June 2, 2009, 07:28 PM
Because the 7.62 X 39 and the 30-30 are not ballistic twins (at least up to 100 yards or even a bit more)...that's why

Not only that, but slug construction is WILDLY different. The last thing you want on on elk is a slug that is designed to fragment and tumble on impact..........

IF I were to hunt an elk with 30-30(doable within certain limitations as already noted), slug construction would be the primary determing factor when choosing a load. Even accuracy would take a back seat in importance to it. Most likely an offering from Barnes Bullets would get the nod.

saturno_v
June 2, 2009, 08:03 PM
I'm surprised you wouldn't. You can push it above 1400 ft-lbs.

Yes...really pushing it to get 1400 ft/lb....and with a small 55 grain bullet ready to fragment on impact and less than half the SD of the 30 WCF....:rolleyes::scrutiny:

That is called being unreasonable...

The animal will not be in the perfect position for you at 50 yards...but within 100-150 yards I think the 30-30 is in play, especially with the heavy Nosler Partition bullets

AKElroy
June 2, 2009, 08:59 PM
No offense, but a deer that weighs under 100 lbs. has little to do with an elk, other than that they're both 4-legged herbivores. At least in Idaho, elk bucks bulls can be more than 10 TIMES that size.

http://imnh.isu.edu/digitalatlas/bio...elk/elkfrm.htm

Elk, for hunting purposes, is not just a somewhat taller, stouter deer. It's a larger animal, by an order of magnitude.

To put it another way, a large jackrabbit compares to a 90 lb. deer, as that deer compares to a buck bull elk.

The size range of Rocky Mountain Elk overlaps with North American Bison (450-1000+ lbs. vs. 850-2200 lbs.).

Just food for thought...

I said I have not shot an elk, not that I have not seen one. I am aware they are large, thick skinned, heavy boned animals. I am also aware that countless elk have been humanely taken with a .30-30, and that there are clear considerations beyond monster balistics that make a good hunting rifle. Quick handling, light weight, quick followup shots, these are all traits that lend themselves well to hiking in mountain country. I have taken more deer than I can count with scoped, flat shooting bolt guns, and I am bored with it. I simply do not feel challenged taking stationary game while looking through a 14X Leupold on a rifle that can shoot to point of aim as far as I can hold it. So I have started taking deer with the 94, as well as a Blackhawk .44.
This year, the hogs will get a shot from the SKS's and the nagant. Next thing you know, I will be carrying a bow. (OK,NOT THE BOW) The thought of the challenge posed in the hike, the stalk, and the close range needed for a 94 to work on elk is very refreshing and intriguing to me, and I see no irresponsibility in it if loads & ranges are carefully evaluated.

joshk-k
June 2, 2009, 10:30 PM
Wow! What a lively discussion my question has raised! I don't at all think I have this figured out yet. I'm thinking of attending an Appleseed shoot in a week or two and may let that experience help influence my decision making. I also asked in a thread in the rifle section, about adding aperture sights to the .30-30 for such a hunting experience, which seem like they should help me be proficient at slightly longer distances than I am with the buckhorns.

More new thoughts?

Josh

ArmedBear
June 2, 2009, 10:56 PM
Not a new thought, but an old one, from one of the oldest active hunters I know.

I'll try to remember his words as best I can.

"You owe it to the animal to use a round that's powerful enough.

"You owe it to the animal to practice field shooting, have your gun sighted in, and to be able to hit your target with it.

"You owe it to the animal to use a good scope at any distance where you can't place a shot perfectly every time with irons.

"You owe it to the animal."

ArmedBear
June 2, 2009, 11:26 PM
One more thing...

I shoot my .22 lever gun just fine with semi-buckhorns, as far as a .30-30 should be used on elk.

AKElroy
June 2, 2009, 11:40 PM
Not a new thought, but an old one, from one of the oldest active hunters I know.

I'll try to remember his words as best I can.

"You owe it to the animal to use a round that's powerful enough.

"You owe it to the animal to practice field shooting, have your gun sighted in, and to be able to hit your target with it.

"You owe it to the animal to use a good scope at any distance where you can't place a shot perfectly every time with irons.

"You owe it to the animal."

Wise words & I agree, to a point. A .50 BMG would certainly take an elk cleanly, and from a mile away if the shot presented. More cleanly than my 7 mag. or .270, in fact. The point of the hunt should be about far more than just killing the quarry; it should present a reasonable challenge in order to be truly rewarding. I have made every argument you have with regard to archers. I feel this is a bit of a different comparison, as the .30-30 chambering is demonstrably capable if the hunter does his part. I read into the original post that the author is looking for such a challenge.

ArmedBear
June 3, 2009, 09:07 AM
IMO if you want such a challenge, it makes the most sense to take advantage of special muzzleloader seasons (sometimes during the rut).

joshk-k
June 3, 2009, 06:14 PM
That was not part of my thinking, per se.

Josh

ArmedBear
June 3, 2009, 06:24 PM
Not sure about where you're hunting, but if you're going to be shooting at 100 yards or less, you might be able to hunt in much better conditions with a muzzleloader than if you go out with everyone else that's carrying a longer-range elk rifle.

Often, it's much safer, too. Not sure I'd want to get between an "eager" hunter with a .338 Win Mag and an elk.:) (I've heard some stories that are downright scary from around these parts.)

northerner
June 3, 2009, 06:42 PM
I believe one of the cartridge manufacturers have a magnumtized load for the old 30/30 that brings it up to the .308 velocities and with a better bullet. Its called Levermag or something like that? I believe Federal or Speer makes it.
I remember reading that many older Elk hunters thought that the 99 Savage in .300 Savage was just about the perfect elk gun and cartridge.

usmc1371
June 4, 2009, 03:02 AM
The elk in NW oregon are a solid 20 to 30% larger than the rocky Mt elk that are in most of the country and the habitat is genrally very thick. The options for shots are eathier very close ie less than 100yds or clear acorss a clear cut wich could be up to 400+. The OP said he also has a scoped 30-06 wich in my opnion is a better elk rifle for the hunting he is planing. If I were going to elk hunt NW oregon again and all I had was a 30-30 I would avoid clear cuts and stick to the thick stuff to avoid the temptation or fustration of seeing an elk way to far to shoot with my 30-30.
Yes the 30-30 will work just don't stop shooting till the elk hits the ground, better to shoot an elk twice than have to track it through on of the thickest rain forests on the planet.

Todd1700
June 4, 2009, 07:40 AM
BTW do people imagine that elk hunting involves an animal that stands still at 50 yards and waits for you to get a perfect shot?


Well an awful lot of people have shot them from that distance with a bow. And more continue to do it every year. If a man with a bow in his hand can manage to get a broadside shot at 50 yards or less then I'm having trouble understanding why a man with a 30-30 would have such an impossible chance of getting a good shot at one. The 30-30 may not be a long range powerhouse but with a 170 grain bullet it should easily punch into a elks vitals out to 150 yards. That's hell and gone farther than the practical range of a bow and about the same practical range of most muzzleloaders. And yet I never hear anyone tell people not to hunt elk with a bow or a muzzleloader. Ever thought about that?

3pairs12
June 4, 2009, 08:07 AM
^^ exactly

Harve Curry
June 4, 2009, 09:40 AM
I only know about New Mexico and Arizona elk hunting, so conditions in other states may differ. It is hard to get with in bow range except during the rut when their gaurd is down. There's not much rut or any during the firearm seasons. Stalking in your socks or shooting from a bilnd. Then there's the wind to mess you up.

ArmedBear
June 4, 2009, 09:51 AM
If a man with a bow in his hand can manage to get a broadside shot at 50 yards or less then I'm having trouble understanding why a man with a 30-30 would have such an impossible chance of getting a good shot at one.

Look at the bow season vs. the general rifle season on the calendar, and you might get some sort of an idea.:)

Let's just say it's easier to trick a drunken sailor on shore leave than it is to sneak up on him while he's on watch.

Vern Humphrey
June 4, 2009, 10:23 AM
I believe one of the cartridge manufacturers have a magnumtized load for the old 30/30 that brings it up to the .308 velocities and with a better bullet.
LeveRevolution -- it's a polymer tipped bullet with a soft tip. It allows a pointed bullet to be used in tubular magazines, and givesthe .30-30 a bit longer practical range -- but it hardly matches the .308.

ArmedBear
June 4, 2009, 10:37 AM
The accuracy of the LE ammo I've seen is pretty impressive. That old lever gun that you thought couldn't beat 2 MOA might just be able to hang with a bolt-action sporter with the new stuff. I've seen it happen.

It also helps trajectory and pushes effective range by a good distance since the spitzer bullet retains its velocity well.

But... While the LE ammo has revitalized the venerable cartridge, a .30-30 LE round is still a .30-30.

.30-30 max pressure is 42,000 PSI, whereas the .308 max is 62,000 psi. It would be very difficult to push a .30-30 to .308 velocities, both because of the smaller case volume and the pressure limit of the .30-30.

Remember that the .308 can't really equal .30-06 velocity, either, despite the fact that you'll read that they're the same. A maxed-out 150 grain .30-06 is good for about 200 fps over a .308, roughly the difference between .30-06 and .300 WinMag (yet a bigger case).

Powder technology notwithstanding, a case is only as big as it is.:)

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 10:49 AM
The accuracy of the LE ammo I've seen is pretty impressive. That old lever gun that you thought couldn't beat 2 MOA might just be able to hang with a bolt-action sporter with the new stuff. I've seen it happen.

It also helps trajectory and pushes effective range by a good distance since the spitzer bullet retains its velocity well.

But... While the LE ammo has revitalized the venerable cartridge, a .30-30 LE round is still a .30-30.

.30-30 max pressure is 42,000 PSI, whereas the .308 max is 62,000 psi. It would be very difficult to push a .30-30 to .308 velocities, both because of the smaller case volume and the pressure limit of the .30-30.

Remember that the .308 can't really equal .30-06 velocity, either, despite the fact that you'll read that they're the same. A maxed-out 150 grain .30-06 is good for about 200 fps over a .308, roughly the difference between .30-06 and .300 WinMag (yet a bigger case).

Powder technology notwithstanding, a case is only as big as it is.



I totally agree with ArmedBear on this..

While the Hornady LE has given new life to the old 30 WCF, it is not 308 Winchester by any stretch of imagination...

Souped-up 30-30 reloads tops at 2200 ft/lb give or take...even the weakest .308 loads are easily 300 ft/lb above that...and the 308 Win is not 30-06 either despite what people can fool themselves to believe

That said, within 100-150 yards the thutty thutty is very deadly on almost anything...

Some people very confident with their lever guns have taken deer cleanly at 300+ yards with the appropriate loads...and if you have the skill...

Arkansas Paul
June 4, 2009, 12:46 PM
Let's remember a good elk cartridge is not one that will get the job done when conditions are ideal. A good elk cartridge is one that will get the job done when conditions are less than ideal. If you take a quartering shot with a .30-30 at anything but close range, you're going to have a heck of a tracking job on your hands and you may never recover the animal. I don't know about you, but I would hate to know I had wounded an animal when the problem could have been solved with a more powerful round.

Vern Humphrey
June 4, 2009, 12:55 PM
Let's remember a good elk cartridge is not one that will get the job done when conditions are ideal. A good elk cartridge is one that will get the job done when conditions are less than ideal.
Amen!

And let me repeat what I said earlier -- a man who hunts every year and has killed plenty of elk may pass up the less than ideal shots.

A man who has never hunted elk may be tempted, however, to attempt the impossible on the only wild elk he's ever seen.

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 01:01 PM
Let's remember a good elk cartridge is not one that will get the job done when conditions are ideal. A good elk cartridge is one that will get the job done when conditions are less than ideal. If you take a quartering shot with a .30-30 at anything but close range, you're going to have a heck of a tracking job on your hands and you may never recover the animal. I don't know about you, but I would hate to know I had wounded an animal when the problem could have been solved with a more powerful round.


When we are talking Elk, a 30-30 should be strictly used at 100-150 yards...not more than that.

At 100 yards or below, with the right load and bullet, a quartering shot should not be a particularly problematic....


That said, a 30-30 is not an ideal Elk cartridge of course....still it can do the job decently even in less than super ideal conditions (broadside shot at 50 yards so to speak)

a man who hunts every year and has killed plenty of elk may pass up the less than ideal shots.


That should always be the case, regardless of your gun.....

An incredibly experienced and skilled hunter told me that you should leave alone your prey if it is past the 400 yards mark, no matter what rifle and caliber you are hunting with....

Vern Humphrey
June 4, 2009, 01:07 PM
I have often said that John Kerry wakes up in the wee hours of the morning with a little voice whispering, "If you had served a full tour in Viet Nam, and come home to help your fellow veterans, instead of lying about them, you'd be President today."

I've killed elk, but I don't want to wake up in the wee morning hours to hear a little voice whispering to me, "If you'd taken your .30-06 or your .35 Brown-Whelen, you could have taken that shot and the freezer would be full of elk meat right now."

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 01:16 PM
Vern

Let's not forget that one huge advantage of the 30-30 lever that, at least in part, can compensate for the lack of thump is the lightning fast follow up shot if you know how to use your carbine....I saw people rivaling semi-auto rifles for well aimed shots...

Vern Humphrey
June 4, 2009, 01:22 PM
Perfectly true -- but I've been in situations where a follow-up shot wasn't possible.

In one case, a bull elk came down through the timber, with no chance of a clear shot. I tracked him with my scope, and when he reached a logging road, he jumped down into the middle of the road and in the next jump was gone.

I hit him as his feet touched the ground, and before I got the rifle back down from recoil, he had disappeared. No rifle -- not even a semi-automatic -- would have given me a second shot.

With a .30-30, I would not have attempted the shot.

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 01:28 PM
We agree on this...

A 338 Win Mag obviously will give you a much more wide range of opportunity on elk compared to a 30-30 for sure....

Still the thutty thutty, in some conditions can be a good performer on elk (the main limiting factor is the range)....where there are other lesser cartridges that should never be used for this purpose under any circumstances (a 223, 22 LR, 357 carbine, etc...)

If you can afford another rifle, why not, more power to you...but if you cannot and you have only a 30 WCF, you can try to make the best use of it and be aware of its limitations...but it's doable if the conditions are right...

H&Hhunter
June 4, 2009, 01:28 PM
My daughter shot this nice big cow last October. She was 12 years old at the time and just a wisp under 100 lbs. I built her a number 5 tapper barreled .308 on a stainless M-70 it has a 13 LOP stock and heavy 24" barrel. The child can not shoot it unless she has the front end supported in this case she used a Harris bi-pod from a prone position.

I load her down with a SPR 22 a volume replacement powder and use a 150 gr flat nosed Sierra Game King @ a nominal 2300 FPS(.30-30 ballistics). In that rig the recoil is about like a 223. IE There is none and this kid can shoot the piss out of this rifle. Here is the secret to her success at killing an elk with a .30-30 powered gun. She aims before she shoots and we passed up multiple chances at elk one of which was at 170 yards. She was MAD at dad for not letting her shoot because she knows she can place a group inside of 3 inches at 200 yards with this rifle and I do too. But we agreed to 100 yards or under before we took a shot.

She hammered this one at about 80 yards hitting it in a front quartering shot just behind the shoulder bone and the bullet got both lungs went through the diaphragm through the liver and stopped under the skin on the off side. We tracked this cow for about an hour before we found her. The bullet did an admirable job but she was just a bit far back on her shot placement. Elk can go a long way even with holes in their lungs. A bit more velocity and expansion might have done the job a bit quicker. But a .30-30 will definitely kill elk if they are hit right and the range is kept reasonable.

PS she's also killed a nice big boar hog with this same round.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/Torishuntelkprofile.jpg

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 01:41 PM
H&H


So quartering shot, little off shot placement, 80 yards....doable.....and you were using a bit light bullet (150 gr)

H&Hhunter
June 4, 2009, 04:59 PM
Saturno,

Way doable. That little 150 gr pill gave us three feet of penetration. I have no doubt that had that elk been flat broadside it would have exited. The secret is setting up the shot. You've got to be close and you've got to pick your shots. You've also got to have the discipline to wait for the right shot.

Hunting elk with a .30-30 is like hunting African DG with a double rifle. You will have to pass up some shots that you could have taken with another rig but if you are OK with that it is a fun experience. Maybe a better example is using fly gear over a spin bait. It is a self imposed limitation but if that is your game go for it and enjoy it.

H&Hhunter
June 4, 2009, 05:05 PM
LeveRevolution -- it's a polymer tipped bullet with a soft tip. It allows a pointed bullet to be used in tubular magazines, and givesthe .30-30 a bit longer practical range -- but it hardly matches the .308.

LeveRevuloution is not a jumped up load it is simply using an aerodynamic bullet giving a BC advantage over the old round nosed or flat nosed bullets. AND it is dead soft frangible. I wouldn't use it on elk. It is way to fragile to be considered an elk round.

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 06:34 PM
LeveRevuloution is not a jumped up load it is simply using an aerodynamic bullet giving a BC advantage over the old round nosed or flat nosed bullets. AND it is dead soft frangible. I wouldn't use it on elk. It is way to fragile to be considered an elk round.

H&H

I think that compared to your standard run of the mill commercial load (Winchester, Remington, etc...), the 30-30 LE Hornady is a little bit more peppy...they publish 2400 fps for a 160 gr. pill...not that much of a difference but just a tad hotter..

But what it's impressive is its long range capability compared to the standard 30 WCF loads....at 300 yards has well over 1000 ft/lb left and very little drop compared to the standard 30 WCF...you can get a whitetail fair and square even without particular ability....once the polymer tip is off basically it is a giant hollow point bullet...I agree that it's not elk medicine but I heard it does quite some numbers on deer...

How big was the elk your daughter got??

I bet that the same shot with the 170 gr. 30-30 partition load from Federal would have exited...

Grizzly Cartridges makes a 170 gr. flat nose 30-30 at over 2000 ft/lb...a bit pricey but a very good thumper..

Buffalo Bore promises that it's 190 gr. heavy 30-30 loads will reach ~2300 ft/lb....

bearmgc
June 6, 2009, 05:57 PM
Calender dates for bow VS rifle season amount to one word, stalking.
Good stalking skills will get you easily within 30-30 range of an elk. Not meaning to sound sarcastic, but I've seen how many hunters "hunt" elk, and often go home empty. I've hunted with guys that can become invisible in a forest within 2 minutes upon entering the woods. Sadly, stalking skills are not given the honor due. But then, guys that possess them, never go hungry, nor need to brag about their thunderboomer...

running iron
June 6, 2009, 08:44 PM
I have to chime in on this one and agree with everyone that said NO. It's irresponsible in my mind to use a 30-30 for elk when if your reason is you want to use a lever gun or any gun unless you were starving or couldn't get another bigger one. Then only if you acted like a bow hunter. Most of the shots around here are in the pinion/juniper forest. Most of the time you can't even see the whole elk through the cover. Then there is the wind, real wind at 7000'. My bother lives in Oregon and I for sure wouldn't take a 30-30. Why not a big bore lever-action, if that's what you like? The elk deserve a clean kill IMO.

ccsniper
June 6, 2009, 08:51 PM
I've hunted with guys that can become invisible in a forest within 2 minutes upon entering the woods

I know one of those kinds. to the OP, I would not hunt elk with a 30 30 unless I was 100% sure that I could get a good shot and within range. Thats just me though. I've also never hunted elk and should probably just keep my mouth shut :)

blackops
June 7, 2009, 05:17 AM
Honestly, the 30-30 is a good cartridge for 100 yds in, but the 270 and 30-06 are far better in my opinion.

Todd1700
June 7, 2009, 08:57 AM
Look at the bow season vs. the general rifle season on the calendar, and you might get some sort of an idea.

When can you hunt them with muzzleloaders? They have an effective range of about 150 yards. Some perhaps a bit more. Do you advise people not to hunt elk with a muzzleloader as well?

Most of the shots around here are in the pinion/juniper forest. Most of the time you can't even see the whole elk through the cover.

And this would exclude the use a 30-30 in what way? More powerful cartridges make it easier for you to see elk in thick cover?

ArmedBear
June 7, 2009, 10:13 AM
When can you hunt them with muzzleloaders?

That depends.

I can only speak specifically about Idaho, because I just applied for tags here so I have all the lit in front of me. Generally, I believe Utah is similar, though.

Here in Idaho, it depends on the region. The state covers a good amount of latitude, and elevation varies from 770 to 12,662 feet above sea level, with everything in between well-represented.

Some special muzzleloader and archery seasons are during the rut, when the elk can be called in. Some people are damn good at it. This guy is a competitive elk caller:

http://blogs.sltrib.com/outdoors/uploaded_images/20090318__elkcalling_0322~P1-734331.jpg

Others are very late, when snows typically drive elk down from the mountains.

There's a distinct difference between hunting elk in the background, and in the foreground, of this picture (Sawtooth Mountains here in Idaho).

http://www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/usa_oregon_portland/files/2007/05/olson-wjg-alice-lake-sawtooth-mountains-idaho-usa-photographs-prints-colors-horizontals.jpg

They have an effective range of about 150 yards. Some perhaps a bit more. Do you advise people not to hunt elk with a muzzleloader as well?

There are special muzzleloader and archery seasons, like I said.

Typical general rifle seasons are about 3 weeks long, in between the rut and the snows, when the elk are often in the high mountains, and have nothing to do but eat and look out for hunters.

Furthermore, that's when greater numbers of hunters are running around, taking 300 yard shots. It's usually AFTER some other seasons (archery and/or muzzleloaders) have started. So the elk aren't exactly going to be caught off-guard very easily.

If this were 1909 instead of 2009, the seasons were long and hunters sparse, it probably wouldn't make any difference. But in 2009 in the real world, it does.

People hunt and take elk with muzzleloaders and bows every year. But during general rifle season on public land? Not so much.

If someone has access to a very large tract of private land that is not ordinarily hunted at all (a few people are so lucky, but not me), general rifle season might be viable with a short-range firearm. There are also public areas where only short-range firearms are allowed during regular season here.

In Idaho, a .30-30 is not legally a short-range firearm, so that would not be any help.

Hunting elk in the mountains is not like hunting deer in the low country.

Now there are some depredation permits available, where you might be able to take pot shots at elk when they come down to feed off crops. That's a possibility.

But for general seasons, an earnest look at the calendar and a topo map would be pretty daunting to someone who wants to shoot an elk at 75 yards -- at least anywhere around here.

running iron
June 7, 2009, 11:40 AM
For tod1700, my point was that if you can't see the whole animal chances are that you are not offered the the perfect shot MOST of the time. Also, "Roosevelt and Tule Elk are substantially smaller than the American Elk" (boon&crockett) in N. Az. and N.M.. So please don't try your 30-30 on the American. They are big and rugged. I've seen too many cripples left when the shooter went home.

natman
June 7, 2009, 12:13 PM
Thanks for all the answers, although the verdict still seems up in the air. For the record, I also have a scoped .30-06, that I think probably in general would be a better elk gun. I just haven't shot it very much (I only get to shoot maybe three or four times a year), and feel more comfortable with my .30-30. I was thinking about getting some aperture sights for it to help with better target acquisition in the woods.

Comparing the ballistics of a 30-30 to a 30-06, the 30-30 is down by a whooping 500 fps. That's a lot, more than the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Weatherby Magnum. A 168 grain 30-06 at 300 yards is going as fast as a 170 grain 30-30 at the muzzle.

Elk are big. You don't need a magnum, but you would be a lot better off with a good elk load in your 30-06.

For all those who want to compare with muzzleloaders and bows, he's going to have to hunt during rifle season if he uses a 30-30, so he might as well use the better rifle.

jim in Anchorage
June 7, 2009, 12:37 PM
I can't believe I got tru 4 pages of"30-30 on elk" and Elmer Keith never was mentioned.

PT1911
June 7, 2009, 12:42 PM
I know it has been said... but I must repeat... if you can shoot and kill an elk routinely with an arrow or black powder gun, a 30-30 is more than adequate... sure there are some that may drop it faster or from farther away.. I swear it seems as though if one were to follow all the advice and comments on here deer would only be hunted with a 600 nitro express.

saturno_v
June 7, 2009, 01:20 PM
I think H&H put this thread to rest some while ago...I cannot believe is still going...

His daughter anchored an Elk with an angled shot, not perfect shot placement and with a little 150 gr. pill at ~80 yards.....result: complete penetration...and with a picture to prove it...

So within reasonable distance (the only real limiting factor on the 30-30) is doable with room to spare...

Know the limits of your gun....obviously with the 30 WCF you have to pass on a 300 yards shot or so on the other side of a canyon.....but within 100-150 yards or less and with the right load is fair game and perfectly ethical....

ArmedBear
June 7, 2009, 05:18 PM
if you can shoot and kill an elk routinely with an arrow or black powder gun

If you do that routinely during the general rifle season when and where you plan to hunt, sure.

Like I said, I am typing this with the Idaho DFG lit in front of me, just got down from the mountains where elk live a few minutes ago, and I actually applied for a controlled elk tag.

Hunting elk bears little resemblance to hunting deer in Alabama.

The issue is not just about whether a .30-30 will kill an elk (it will) but whether it's a good choice.

If the OP's only reason for using the .30-30 is because he's not really familiar with the .30-06 he already owns, I'd say this:

If get the elk tag you want, go and get familiar with the .30-06. Take the time to do it.

(If he's a very experienced elk hunter and wants the challenge more than the elk, sure, the .30-30 would present that challenge.)

BK
June 7, 2009, 05:50 PM
If you are unable to kill an elk with a .30-30, holding a 7mm instead makes no sense to me.

Vern Humphrey
June 7, 2009, 06:01 PM
Except that it does. For example, a quartering away shot would be a no-no for a .30-30. But that might be the only shot you'd get, and if it's your first elk, it would be difficult to resist the temptation.

With a 7mm Rem Mag loaded with a heavy, premium bullet, simply aim for the leg on the far side. You have a rifle that will plow through the stomach, go through the boiler room, and still have enough steam to break the leg.

joshk-k
June 7, 2009, 07:51 PM
I am impressed that this has lasted for 87 replies so far. I think I am going to take this as an opportunity to get to know my .30-06 better and put in some serious practice with it before the fall. It seems, from both a practical and ethical sense, that while the .30-30 would be fine, the .30-06 would be better. That's enough for me. I appreciate all of the input.

Now if I could only find more .30-06 ammo to practice with!

Josh

BK
June 7, 2009, 08:05 PM
If you can't kill an elk with a quartering away shot using a .30-30, holding a 7mm won't make you any more of a shooter.

saturno_v
June 7, 2009, 08:08 PM
Except that it does. For example, a quartering away shot would be a no-no for a .30-30. But that might be the only shot you'd get, and if it's your first elk, it would be difficult to resist the temptation.

With a 7mm Rem Mag loaded with a heavy, premium bullet, simply aim for the leg on the far side. You have a rifle that will plow through the stomach, go through the boiler room, and still have enough steam to break the leg.



Again...all depends on the distance...your 7 mm would be able to do that at 200 yards, my 338 WIn MAg at 400+ where the 30-30 would do it from 100 or so....did you read H&H's daughter hunting adventure on an elk with picture???

Have you ever seen what kind of penetration a premium 30-30 load get at short distance???

Angle shot, not ideal placement, complete penetration....

HarleyFixer
June 8, 2009, 08:19 AM
All I hunted with here in Idaho till I was almost 30 yo was my pre 64 Winchester 30-30 and it was all I needed for the elk I killed.

170-180 grain bullets work fine.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
June 8, 2009, 09:09 AM
I think what ArmedBear is saying is spot on - during the early season in September when they are rutting, the males lose their heads (damned females!) and are much easier to get close to and call in. BUT, most states if not all, allow only archery or muzzleloader seasons during that time. But later on, when they're done rutting, they're wiser, and a longer range firearm would be sorely wanted, when you see a big one at 300 plus yards and all you have is a .30-30. In the Aspen thickets, there'd be nothing better though, as far as rifles go.

bearmgc
June 8, 2009, 04:48 PM
I didn't read for content his original post, and now see that he does have a 30-06, but is not familiar with it. As mentioned by others, yes, I would also strongly urge him to start practicing with the 30-06, and find a good elk load that it will shoot accurately. I would also agree that with a first time elk hunt, the temptation may be great to take a less than adequate shot with the 30-30. But still true to my original belief, if that's all he had, and if he stayed within the limits of the 30-30 with a 170gr nosler partition, elk can be his. I have seen the results of good stalking on post rut elk many times in Wyoming Bridger Tetons and shoshoni Nat. Forest. Stalking is effective ANY time.

T.R.
June 9, 2009, 09:22 AM
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/rushmoreman/bullelkWinchester.jpg

30-30 does its very BEST work 150 yards or less. For this reason, my elk rifle is a .308 shooting pointed 180 grain ammo. I have taken many elk that were 200 yards or farther, beyond the limitations of the time proven 30-30. Of course, the skilled woodsman who passes up such shots will do okay with his 30-30.

TR

schlockinz
June 9, 2009, 02:24 PM
I'd try to become more familiar with the 06.

The 3030 will take it, but you'll get a little extra range that may be needed with that 06.

However, if your hunting thick woods in Oregon and won't be looking at 150+ yd shots, use the 30-30 if you're more accurate with it.

wankerjake
June 9, 2009, 02:57 PM
Ok I can't resist anymore. I don't really have anything new to say, maybe just in other words. Your 30-06 is a more powerful cartridge so it may be better to familiarize yourself with it. However, if you really do have the discipline to only take a close shot under 150 yards then there is no reason not to use the 30-30. If there is potentail for longer shots then I would recommend scoping your 30-06 and using that. Also maybe I missed it are you hunting bull or cow? If you are hunting for bulls I would lean more towards the '06. They are damned big animals and the bigger the better. But it is your choice, and if you follow the advice on the restrictions of the 30-30 cartridge you will be fine, especially for cows. People in this thread are talking like the 30-30 is a pea-shooter, I really don't understand it. Inside 150 yards the 30-30 packs a heck of a punch.

My other question would be how much hunting experience do you have? Have you successfully hunted deer? If you hunting experience/skill level is lacking then bigger is probably better, but if you do indeed shoot better with your 30-30 than your 30-06 then you should use it. Making a good shot is what is most important. My best advice is to practice shooting a lot and do some scouting. Leave this argument behind and get familiar with the area and the animal. This will give you a better idea of your limitatons and you can plan accordingly. Either way good luck, there is nothing quite like hunting elk.

usmc1371
June 9, 2009, 07:31 PM
YAT_YAZ
"Roosevelt and Tule Elk are substantially smaller than the American Elk".... Please state your sorce.
I have killed one roselvelt cow and and a dozen rocky MT elk including a 6x6 bull in the sawtooth Mts in Idaho and the rosy cow was BIGGER in body weight than any of the rocky mt elk. BnC records horn in inches, not elk by body mass rosy elk have shorter thicker antlers because of the very thick country they live in.
The OP has a scoped 30-06, it is a better elk rifle 99% of the time and will alow more shot options. Like I said befor NW Oregon is steep, very thick, and everything is wet in elk season. Two things happen if you wound an elk here. One is it runs off leaving an incredible tough tracking job. Two it runs off and the next guy down the hill shoots your elk, guts it, packs it out and when you get done tracking you find a gut pile and some brass bigger than 30-30. Not being a dick I have just hunted elk Where the OP is talking about more than once.

Arkel23
June 9, 2009, 07:44 PM
If you keep the shots close and have good shot placement it will do. I wouldn't use a 30-30 for elk, but people have and still do.

running iron
June 11, 2009, 09:40 PM
Anyone that thinks elk are bigger in Oregon than in N.Az. better do their homework before flapping their gums! Hate misinformation. If you think I'm wrong due the research. But please if you come here, leave your peashooters home.

saturno_v
June 11, 2009, 10:39 PM
But please if you come here, leave your peashooters home.


Are you willing to stand 300 yards from my friend's Marlin 336 in 30-30?? You know it's a peashooter...you should have no problem at all...the bullet would not even get that far..and if it would it would bounce off...

My goodness...ignorance is a blessing....

Harve Curry
June 11, 2009, 11:03 PM
In the Speer no.11 manual there's a photo on page 198 7.62x39 section of a girl who shot her first bull elk a very nice 7x6 it looks like!.

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