Everyone go buy a .17 HM2, not a HMR


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SureThing
June 1, 2009, 03:34 PM
I hate the thought of owning a "speciality round" gun. After researching, I found out the .17 HM2 exists, and cost about $4 per 50, instead of the $11 the HMR costs.

So now I want one. Not sure why the HM2 has not taken off, especially since the savings is about 70%, I just don't think people realize it exists, and just get a .22LR instead.

So I now urge everyone to go buy them, so I will know that I can always get ammo :)

One last question

Savage or Marlin for my Mach 2 gun?

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waterhouse
June 1, 2009, 03:56 PM
I like the CZ 452 American.

I'm not sure I want everyone buying them. That's happening with all of the other rounds right now and causing supply/demand issues and price increases.

I keep thinking of buying $1,000 worth of HM2 and getting a lifetime supply now.

Kingcreek
June 1, 2009, 05:10 PM
I wanted Browning to make me a 10.5" .17 barrel for my Buckmark Silhouette but they weren't interested. I thought it would make the perfect gopher gun.:(

Matrix187
June 1, 2009, 06:46 PM
I want an HM2. Do you think it will survive long term? I'm thinking about keeping or selling my 17 hmr savage classic T and replacing it with an Hm2.

627PCFan
June 1, 2009, 07:01 PM
The Mach 2 is going the way of the 5mm. Sorry---

SureThing
June 1, 2009, 07:09 PM
That is a shame, the .17 HM2 is better than a .22LR, and almost as cheap. Lets all go buy some, keep it in business.

EHCRain10
June 1, 2009, 11:47 PM
the HMR has the added range that I want, and can push 20grain pills while I havent seen those on the HM2

rangerruck
June 2, 2009, 01:26 AM
wrong-o , wrong-0!!!! the mach 2 will overtake the hmr. It'll just take a while. Why? because the hmr is not considered a plinking round, to shoot 100's of rounds at a time with. Because a lot of the loads, and the rifles, are not that accurate. Why? because no one has come out with great specs on the perfect making, putting together, crimping, runnout of the hmr ammo. Why? becuase they are making a lot of money on them just the way they are, at 15 bucks a box, and just having them being used as a hunting accurate round. it is the same as 22mag to load, but they can get more money. so the mach 2 is better. Why? because it is a genuine laser shot out to 125 yards, with a 5 inch drop at 150. ELey and remmy ammo, which is about 100 fps faster, does a bit better, and is also generally more accurate, being both are eley made. Big John, of ammunitiontogo.com, personally told me that there is right now, about 30 million m2 rounds in the pipeline, going here and to diff countries for sale. Supposedly the owner of Anschutz, carries a target around with him, that he shot with the m2, and is allways preaching the gospel of Mach 2. Of course mach 2 ammo is 4 to 6 bucks a box, and over the net, can be even cheaper. Accuracy is better than all but the super best of 22lr, and is faster at 100 yds, than a 22lr is at the muzzle, so varmints tend to get real sick, real fast.
Also talk about no recoil, it is the funnest thing you will ever shoot; most guys I know started with several hmrs, and then bought a m2- now they have many m2's, and keep MAYBE ONE hmr, or none at all. for game/pelt/meat keeping , the m2 is better, not so explosive. m2 ammo and rifles, now had by dudes who once had 17 hmrs, will tell you that generally speaking , the mach 2 is more accurate; the round and the rifles. Also if you really wanna save skins, try shooting 17 aguila through your m2; it may or may not be as accurate as your m2 ammo, but it is generally hunting accurate. It is loaded
on a true 22 lr round, the m2 is loaded on a stinger round. so the aggie rounds is about 1900 to 2000 fps, just a bit slower, but uses a 20 grainer, that is either hollow point or solid. so it can drill teeny , tiny , entrance and exit holes, the little hollowpoints simply disentegrate inside your varmint.
I gotta tell you, I love them all; I have had every rifle made, under 500 bucks, and there wasn't a dud in the bunch. for a hunting rig, I would go with a savage base model, synth stock , with a pencil bbl; superaccurate, and super light, just not a benchrester model; it will eventually heat up that
pencil bbl. The base marlin, is double tough to beat, for 200 bucks or less, every one I have ever touched, with just a few tweeks to the channel of the stock and the trigger, can be great shooters. the cz is great, as is,out of the box, the ruger variants are great; they are all great! go on over to rimfirecentral, and find skeeter and a couple of the other dudes with massive 10.22 conversion experience, and they will make you 10.22 shoot unbelievably accurate, with the once- 22.
I can't extole the virtues enough, I love them. Currently , I am still looking for the above savage, for a field rifle, but my bench go to is a ruger 77/17m2, stainless laminate, with trigger mods, channelled out stock, and a fakey bbl to stock bedding job. it shoots absolutely lights out, and is heavy enough to free recoil the pull on the trigger, and when it fires, it barely moves.

Oh yeah, in case you didn't notice, 5mm mag ammo is being made, and sold again, and if savage or cz ever gets around to making a new bolt action for it, this would be the greatest rimfire ever. Just imagine, a 204 ruger round, between 30 and 35 grains, handloaded down to about 2500 fps, but in a rimfire tiny case, Awesome!!! centurion ammo is allready worked up the hotter and heavier loads, in case savage or cz does come through.
the reason the hmr took off, but the m2 did not, is purely marketing. The m2 actually came out first; not even so, but the `17 high Standard, which is the 17 Aguila , came out first.
when the hmr's were first being expiremented with, and some of the early folks were doing tests to
3000fps, this got a lot of people in the rimfire world, really revved up. So when it did come out, the hmr sold like a house a fire; mach 2 is expanding one way only. Word of mouth.

rangerruck
June 2, 2009, 01:29 AM
Oh yeah, cheaperthan dirt, ammunitiontogo, grafs, zanders, etc., and these guys all sell m2 or aggie ammo. http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_2_883&products_id=7843
ammunitiontogo.com sells eley m2 ammo for 140 a case, plus real world shipping.

rangerruck
June 2, 2009, 10:09 AM
even the nef and rossi single shots, can be quite accurate.

hutner22
June 2, 2009, 10:16 AM
I got a 22LR and i love it:) she is my baby I use it for hunting rabbits but i want some thing bigger for coyotes.

SureThing
June 2, 2009, 10:33 AM
Ranger, are you saying you like the Marlin better than the Savage? Also, it does not appear Marlin makes a 17HM2, just a HMR.

TechBrute
June 2, 2009, 10:37 AM
I can't believe I'm opening this can of worms, but:

Ok, so why is the Mach 2 better than .22LR?

Art Eatman
June 2, 2009, 10:49 AM
I'm glad you asked that, TechBrute! :D:D:D

I went prairie dog shooting with Justin. He was just getting acquainted with his .17 M2. He was zapping them nicely at 100 yards, and after getting a feel for the wind and hold-over, was getting clean kills at 200. A buddy was using his laser range finder and calling the distances for us.

I really don't think the .22 rimfire would perform that well.

TechBrute
June 2, 2009, 11:17 AM
Interesting.

I personally wouldn't compare the two because the .17hm2 costs 2-4 times as much for ammo. By that logic, we should compare the .17hm2 to .17hmr or .223, which are within 2-4 times the cost of the .17hm2. That's not to say the 17hm2 is without merit, I just don't think it's a fair comparison.

As a plinking ammo, I think it's hard to beat the trusty .22LR which can still be had for $.02 a round. Even at stupid Obama prices, it capped out around $.03 a round. For people that don't want to do the math, the .17hm2 is around .08 a round.

Some people might not think that's a big deal, but for the aforementioned $1000 purchase, you can get 12,500 rounds of .17hm2, or you can get 50,000 rounds of .22lr.

By the way, neither is a lifetime supply... I used to do 1-2000 rounds a month through my Mark II pistol. Based on sales reciepts and some other considerations, I believe my Mark II has north of 200K rounds through it. If that was hm2, that would be around $16,000 in ammo.

Again, I'm not saying the .17hm2 is without merit, I just question the criteria for comparison.

t george
June 2, 2009, 11:37 AM
I love my 22's but my 17m2 gets a lot more time these days. I still work the 22's out some but if there is a question of small game at a distance I always grab the mach 2... Im just much more confident with it.


I hope it survives because it really is a great round. but with the amount of 22 firearms out there compared number 17m2's there will always be a market for 22lr. with that it maybe hard for the 17m2's market to keep growing.

waterhouse
June 2, 2009, 12:41 PM
Some people might not think that's a big deal, but for the aforementioned $1000 purchase, you can get 12,500 rounds of .17hm2, or you can get 50,000 rounds of .22lr.

By the way, neither is a lifetime supply... I used to do 1-2000 rounds a month through my Mark II pistol.

I don't consider the HM2 a plinking round. I shoot a ton of .22 bulk ammo through semi autos too, but my hm2 gun is a bolt gun that holds 5 rounds in the mag. I know they make semis in HM2, but if I want to shoot cans I'll break out a .22.

12,000 rounds would take me a really, really long time to go through in HM2. Maybe not a lifetime . . . mine probably gets 50 rounds a month through it, so I could shoot it for 20 years or so.

The thing about HM2 is there isn't a cheap plinking version of the ammo. It all seems to be "match grade." While this isn't necessarily for a lot of shooting, it is comparable to match grade .22 ammo, which costs more than the bulk stuff. HM2 still costs more than most .22, for sure.

I rationalize it as a nice round between .22LR and .223.

SureThing
June 2, 2009, 06:05 PM
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc213/bdawg1976/Gun/17hmrdp2.png

Look at the chart.

Maverick223
June 2, 2009, 06:28 PM
The Mach 2 is going the way of the 5mm. Sorry---Any info to back this up...I think it will be around for a while. I almost bought a HMR a couple of years ago...but that was when ammo was almost as much as .223/5.56...I wish I had now...the rifle (Savage) was only about $150.00 @ Dicks.

KzoneAL
June 2, 2009, 10:29 PM
The M2 isnt going anywhere CCI,Hornady and Eley have no plans on dropping it. There is a ton of info over on www.rimfirecentral.com in the 17M2 Forum that should answer any questions.Anyone who hunts small game with a rimfire needs to seriously give the M2 a try...it is a laser beam to 100yds and strikes like lightning.

hunter25
June 2, 2009, 10:37 PM
Already bought a Sako HMR and the 22lr takes care of al my plinking needs. I'm happy with it.

rangerruck
June 3, 2009, 01:06 AM
well, here is the ting about the mach 2 , it is as fast as a 22lr is at 100 yds. it has basically half the trajectory arc, and half the wind deflection of the 22lr.
there is basically no good 22lr ammo, under 2 bucks a box anymore, most of it is 3 to 4 bucks a box. eley mach 2 ammo is 4 bucks a box. you can also shoot 17aguila/pmc/high standard ammo through a mach 2 rifle. it is generally allways more accurate, than a standard, average 22 rifle, shooting average or even pretty good 22 lr ammo. the chart above lists the speed and trajectory of
cci or hornady ammo, but does not account for eley/remmy ammo, which again, is about 100 fps faster; sometimes depending on the rifle, dudes are getting about 2300 fps with the mach 2 ammo, which would give you even better b.c., trajectory, and wind drift characteristics than a 22lr.
To follow up on something Art has just said, I run into many new folks all the time at the range. Most new folks cannot shoot anything at all, barely well.
they are there just to learn a firearm for protection, or a shotty, but never a rifle. Oh they shot rifles before, even 22's, but were never that good with them, never very accurate, had trouble relating how to shoot for wind, and drop and such, especially with iron sights, even out to just 50 yds.
So I will regularly, get some of these folks to my left and right, and then we go downrange. They look at their target, that they sprayed with a 223 ar of sometype, or maybe a semi 22, and then they look at my target, which
usually has pencil hole sized groups on it.
When we get back up to the front, they no doubt start to ask me, " what laser am i shooting?" So I preach the gospel of m2, and how it is so simple to shoot, and making corrections just takes tiny movements, if any at all, just better trigger or body positioning tweeks, and then I say, " Gahead, if you dare, shoot mine!"
It is my ton heavy ruger 77/17m2, that has a 1lb type or less trigger pull, and has no recoil. Not to mention it has a 24x scope on it.
So they shoot mine, and invariably ask, " where can I buy one of those?"
and of course the peeps who do shoot it ,start immediately bragging to one
another how good they can now shoot with my rig. makes me happy.
You should be able to find a marlin 917m2, in basic wood and blue, at any of the big box stores, gunshops, gunshows, etc. Marlin no longer makes the m2 rifle, but they flooded the market with them, in both plain , and stainless lam, so you should be able to find one from them , or savage, or ruger, or cz, or t/c, or annie, or kimber. the t/c semi auto, is a dream. volquarts also makes them, but cost a ton. and of course, you could take a ruger 10.22 and convert.
Really, once you shoot one of these, even you 22lr loving ol timers, who will never shoot anything else, etc., etc., once you shoot one of these, like I ,
you will find yourself rarely taking your 22 to the range any more.
Just so infinitely much better.

Oh yeah, if you find a marlin semi auto 717, get it, very underrated, and super accurate, but have a history of blowing up. you just need to make sure you hand break in first, with an empty case, then some borepaste or toothpaste, and then keep the chamber area/bolt face clean, after about every 100 rounds. Doesn't need a thorough cleaning, just swab the crud out, maybe spray out, then wipe out, then keep going. the action is just like a mod 60, only with twice as thick all steel parts, and much heavier.

Hunter 25, if that is a Sako Quad, I dare you to get the m2 bbl! " come on, come in, no no no, this
is love, this is real looove, not like those others before, come on open the door!!! We would never hurt you like before; come on in!!!" an homage to Sam Kinison...

one more thing about that chart above, notice the hmr 20 grainer is about 2375 to 2400 fps, well
the eley/remmy ammo is about 2300 fps, so the trajectory would be much closer to that, in a case
about 1/2 the size, 1/2 the recoil, and 1/4 the cost.

NOW FOR COST, COST, COST!!!! WHICH IS EVERYTHING THESE DAYS!!!!
for a case of 2000 rounds of eley ammo, the cost is 140 bucks, plus shipping. from ammunitiontogo.com some places, even has it and the remmy at about 3.60 a box, I don't know about
shipping costs or tax though. still lets say, 150 bucks total for 2000 rounds. that is 15 bucks for 200 rounds, that is bascially 37.50 for a brick of 500. most any good ammo in 22lr, is that same cost, or to break it down further, 3.75 cents for a box of 50. So you cannot say, that 22 ammo is a lot cheaper, or this is not plink worthy.

So there!!!

Maverick223
June 3, 2009, 02:26 AM
So you cannot say, that 22 ammo is a lot cheaperSure I can, I pay about $13.00/500 of .22lr. I can't say it is as accurate (on average), or that 17M2 is not "plink-worthy", but I can certainly say it is cheaper...and do it with less words. :neener:

What does it take to convert a 10/22 to .17Mach2? Are they reliable? May be interested in doing just that after I get a new .22lr.

rangerruck
June 3, 2009, 03:47 AM
not much; there of course is diff quality in the parts, and some work better than others. Skeeter and a few others really have the science down though, and can help you make a really great, super accurate 10.22, over on rimfirecentral.
Basically , you need a new bbl, a new guide rod spring, new hammer, new weighted bolt assy., and bolt handle. All due to the much longer, and higher pressure spike.

noob_shooter
June 3, 2009, 03:52 AM
A few friends got rifles chambered in mach 2. Much better than 22LR. Since i already have a GSG-5 rifle and 93R17 BTVS, no need for hm2.

Anyone know what would happen if mach2 rounds were fired in HMR rifles? Basically the same bullet?? except the case rim is slightly smaller.

Deus Machina
June 3, 2009, 04:48 AM
Hmmm... Shopping for things to fill up the safe... :D

Since I can find all the rimfires cheap, and wouldn't mind a 'convertible' 10/22...

Anyway, how do the couple .17's match up against .22 magnum? Always see them compared to LR, but considering the price some of the .17 ammo can get to, a Magnum might be a better by-price comparison.

SodiumBenzoate
June 3, 2009, 04:54 AM
"Anyone know what would happen if mach2 rounds were fired in HMR rifles? Basically the same bullet?? except the case rim is slightly smaller.
noob_shooter is offline Report Post"

They are NOT interchangeable. .17 HM2 is a necked down .22 LR. .17 HMR is a necked down .22 WMR.

The WMR case is wider than the LR case. Basically, don't do it. A .17 HM2 will not properly fit in a .17 HMR chamber.

TechBrute
June 3, 2009, 08:07 AM
Anyone know what would happen if mach2 rounds were fired in HMR rifles? Basically the same bullet?? except the case rim is slightly smaller.

See if you can dig up a picture of the two. You'll see they aren't even similar. The HMR round is twice the length of the HM2.

ArmedBear
June 3, 2009, 09:10 AM
Anyway, how do the couple .17's match up against .22 magnum?

The .22 WMR doesn't shoot as flat as a .17, but it hucks a much bigger and heavier bullet. SJHPs are readily available, too.

I don't think that the .17s and the .22 WMR are all that interchangeable, either direction.

rangerruck
June 3, 2009, 09:58 AM
both 17's are faster at 100 , than a 22 mag is at the muzzle. they both have less wind drift. they both have better trajectory. Energy inside of 80 yards, belongs to the 22 mag, after that, the hmr takes over in energy; the mach 2 is slightly around the same or lower energy.
See, the prob is the 22 cal round itself; it has such terrible properties, that a few things happen
to the 22lr round or 22 mag round, that don't happen to any other bullet out there- at all.
a 22 round gets so buffeted by the surrounding atmosphere, it is almost rediculous.
because of this, one of the probs of the 22 mag round, is that most of them, will fully dump almost 1/2 of it's speed, from the muzzle, out to 100 yds.

ArmedBear
June 3, 2009, 10:05 AM
The .22 WMR, though, is more of a hunting round: heavy enough to work well on larger small game, not intended to be a long-range round.

The .17 HMR and its younger cousin are intended to be used more as varmint rounds.

jhco
June 3, 2009, 10:27 AM
yeah the hm2 is a nice round it works for somethings haowever it doesn't do what the hmr can.

Maverick223
June 3, 2009, 11:28 AM
Rangerruck, thanks for the info, sounds expensive...I figured it would take a new action spring and barrel, not the whole dern rifle. :)

Secondly, do not fire the 17M2 in a 17HMR, the Mach 2 is based upon the .22lr and the HMR on the .22 Magnum, so don't try it.

Dr.Rob
June 3, 2009, 07:08 PM
Only reason there is a 17HMR in the safe is we did some prarie dogging on property where the owner didn't want us shooting centerfire. 17HMR was a big improvement over the 22lr and 22 mag, not sure I'd buy a 17M2 to replace a 22lr though.. if that makes sense.

KzoneAL
June 3, 2009, 09:38 PM
yeah the hm2 is a nice round it works for somethings haowever it doesn't do what the hmr can.


The M2 isn't suppose to do what the HMR can. M2 up to a 100yds and HMR past 100 if your going to eat what u shoot.

Maverick223
June 3, 2009, 11:24 PM
Basically , you need a new bbl, a new guide rod spring, new hammer, new weighted bolt assy., and bolt handle. All due to the much longer, and higher pressure spike.After further review, the weighted bolt, handle, and action spring is all one assembly so it isn't as bad as I thought. Are you sure you need to replace the hammer (upon researching the conversion I have found nothing indicating that you need to, but want to make sure)?

rangerruck
June 4, 2009, 12:33 AM
... it depends, some guys have had some probs with their conversions, as far as timing goes, which affects loading and ejection. a new hammer, with correct geometry, and weight, can correct this prob someitmes. so it is not so much a neccessity, but could be needed. You can proly do a conversion, for 150 bucks, if you shop around, certainly under 200 can be done.

Maverick223
June 4, 2009, 02:30 AM
it depends, some guys have had some probs with their conversions, as far as timing goes, which affects loading and ejection. a new hammer, with correct geometry, and weight, can correct this prob someitmes.Thanks for the additional info, looks like I may be going this route after I get a new .22lr. After which I plan to make the 10/22 into a target gun...and the .17M2 would suit this end perfectly. I would like to put a Shilen Bbl on it but I think the cost may be prohibitive, so I need to expand my sarch. Personally I Lothar Walther barrels better, but it seems that they (as well as Krieger or any other good target bbl manufacturers that I know of) don't build a 10/17 barrel, and I am definitely not willing to sink the extra cash into finishing a barrel blank.

tasco 74
June 4, 2009, 02:41 AM
i got a savage mkII .17mach2 bolt rifle last year and i love the way the thing shoots!! that fast 17 gr bullet shoots so much flatter than my .22 ruger custom..... get a .17 mach2 and you won't regret it...... i do need to get a wood stock for my mkII... the tupperware stock really isn't what i'm wanting now.... it's nice and light and easy to handle though.....

LIFE IS SHORT.....

rangerruck
June 4, 2009, 10:54 AM
go over to rimfirecentral, go to the 17m2 threads, and look for Skeeter. Ask him who he recommends for parts. He has done more testing and research, on the round itself, worked with Eley, and done more 10.22 conversions than anyone else I know.

TechBrute
June 4, 2009, 11:01 AM
go over to rimfirecentral

Yeah, as long as you don't have a Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc. email address...

Oh, and they want you to put your birthday in there and apparently there is age discrimination going on because when I put in 1901 as the year of my birth, they told me it was invalid.

So... I will continue to get my info here where I can control what information I put out on the web.

Maverick223
June 4, 2009, 11:17 AM
Yeah, as long as you don't have a Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc. email address...Yep, I don't care for that too much myself. Gmail is all I use, despite having half a dozen others. IIRC Sniper Central is the same way.

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 11:42 AM
For decades and decades ammo companies tried to build a better 22...and the new rounds always end up dead or, at best, as niche cartridges (including the 22 magnum)

The only really commercially highly successful improved 22s are the high end 22 LR themselves, CCI and Aguila are a clear example....even before the "ammo crisis" that hit us, it was hard to find the Interceptor or the Velocitor in stores...not because of rarity but because they were literally flying off the shelves!!! And the sight of unsold HM2, HMR and even some of the 22 Magnum boxes was fairly common.

Some shops around here (Western WA) quit selling HM2 and HMR altogether...

None of the new wonder rimfires can beat the flexibility of the 22 LR, period....from cheap $1.49 a box 40 grainers to shoot by the thousands to the Interceptor and Velocitor...

The economics are just not there....again, talking about pre ammo crisis time, the cost of the new supposedly "better" rimfires were dangerously close to some centerfire territory (cheap .223, 22 Hornet, etc...) that give you way better capability...

And the success of the pistol round based carbines does not help either...a 9 mm carbine that can spit 115 gr. pills at 1700+ fps is a better gopher stopper than any of these .17 pins....and it can be a serious HD solution as well...

On the other side, the newer hyper velocity 22 LR 40 grainers at ~1500 fps serioiusly reduced the gap in terms of long range trajectory...

So, if you need a varmint round that is silent because of neighbours, that can stretch by couple of dozen yards the effective trajectory of the fastest 22 LR but becoming harmless at 250+ yards, and you are engaged in artistic grass red painting, yes these newer rimfires may be what you need...a niche indeed...

P.S.

I heard that Aguila is coming with some sort of ballistic tip ultra light (20-25 gr???) hyper velocity 22 LR....unknown accuracy though....


SureThing

It's interesting that you compare the trajectory of the super 17s with the basic $1.50 a box 22 LR....why don't you get the Velocitor, Interceptor or the Viper in the mix???

TechBrute
June 4, 2009, 12:05 PM
Ok, so I just bought a Savage Mark II FV and a Leupold Rimfire 3-9 EFR scope. When they get here and I get the scope mounted, I'll see if I can't get out to the range to see for myself.

RAGGED
June 4, 2009, 08:00 PM
I would have to agree that the mach2 is a great round, I can honestly say itís the one gun that ALWAYS leaves the safe when I go hunting or shooting, why? Its cheap and deadly accurate, whoever said Mach2 costs more than 22lr is full of it, good 22 hunting ammo (Vipers, Stingers, Mini Mags, Yellow Jackets) are always $4+ around here, almost the same as Mach2 if ordered over the net, but the kicker is the 17M2 I have is every bit as accurate than my comparable 22 but that rifle likes high end match grade stuff costing twice or three times as much.

I have killed more squirrels, gophers, crows, rabbits, prairie dogs ect with this rifle then I have any other, Iíve also shot tighter 50 & 100 yard groups with this gun than any other I own, and I own a few nice guns and have worked up some pretty impressive loads on my bench. I do own a few HMRís and both are very fine shooters and do drop wood chucks a bit better than the mach2, , but both are heavy thick barreled guns and when I can get just as good of accuracy with the smaller lighter rig I tend to bring it out every time, not to mention itís a semi auto and being a rimfire the follow ups are easy as pie, staying on target for the follow up is a breeze.

I could preach to the day I die on how much I love this rig, its just that fun to shoot and hunt with!

Ruger 10/22, Predator Raptor Stock, Volquartsen Carbon Fiber Bull Barrel, VQ trigger (no other parts replaced in trigger group), VQ mount, Weaver Classic Extreme 3-9 X 50mm SWF

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9758/img2456s.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2456s.jpg)

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/1653/img2460.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2460.jpg)

Maverick223
June 4, 2009, 08:24 PM
So who makes the best 10/17 barrel for the money...I have tried Rim Central but will NOT give my work e-mail just to join. Been looking at the kit from EABCO, but don't know who built the barrel. Any thoughts?

saturno_v
June 4, 2009, 10:52 PM
Ragged


Nobody said that the high quality/high performance 22 LR cost less..you need to pay for quality....but with a 22 LR I still have the opportunity to fire the really cheap stuff for fun or plinking....this is what it makes the older rimfire truly unbeatable and I do nto foresee any new cartridge soon that is going to change the 22 LR overwhelming market dominance in this segment.

7 people out of 10 (if not more) if they need more varmint punch, once they need to buy a new rifle anyway, they are going .223, 22 Hornet or a pistol round based carbine like a 9 mm or a 357 Mag....

rangerruck
June 5, 2009, 12:13 AM
well, for a mach 2 bbl, there are some great ones out there; but you may wanna look at the volquartz. Though expensive, they went through the round specs proly harder than any other bbl maker, and i believe they put a self regulating spouthole, just up front of the chamber, to stop the nasty habit of Kabooms!!! that can happen in a semiauto 17, which is scary as hell.
If I were building a 10.22 conversion I would either go with this, or with the ones skeeter is building for chargers, or any that he recommends.
just look over at the 17m2 threads, and just look over the bbl comments; see what he agrees with. No need to register.

jaybr
June 5, 2009, 12:52 AM
I've got a Browning BL-17 that I picked up a couple years ago from CDNN and love it. I haven't pulled the 22 out of the safe since I got it.

Maverick223
June 5, 2009, 01:08 AM
Got registered at Rim Central, still can't find any info on a decent barrel choice, the site is horrible...can't post a thread...can't search for anything. Might just stick with .22lr just so I can get a Green Mountain bbl.

Art Eatman
June 5, 2009, 11:16 AM
Maverick, you might contact Bo Clerke in Raton, NM. He told me his shop produces some 150+ barrels per week, in .17, .20 and .22 calibers. He must be the source for many factory rifles. I've seen ads in Shotgun News for Clerke match target barrels for 10/22s for around $80.

Bo holds numerous patents, and has won many awards in .22 bencrest shooting with rifles that he built. Helluva nice guy, as well; I really enjoyed the guided tour of his operation.

RAGGED
June 5, 2009, 11:23 AM
Saturno

I only say that as in my mind when someone says "mach 2 costs 3 times as much" They are comparing apples to oranges, the performance is so drastically different in every way when comparing 550 round per box economy 22lr to any 17 that the comparison shouldn't even be made, and if it is made it should be made as close as can be, in my opinion 17m2 is close to if not greater in accuracy then some of the best match grade 22lr out there, and damage wise even the mighty stinger doesnít take down game any better than a well placed 17 shot. I still love 22's, I have more arms chambered in that caliber then any other, but I still think anyone who ever got there hands on a good shooting 17m2 would never turn back (other than casual plinking), and a 10/22 in 17m2 is about as much fun as you can have with you pants on!

For the record I agree, I donít see M2 ever hurting .22lr in total market share, but I would be willing to bet the sales of 22 hunting rounds have been effected and will continue to be effected by the 17m2 and I donít know too many people that are buying new bolt guns in 22lr, most that I know have been going to the 17m2.


Maverick


Iím and openly biased towards Volquartsen (VQ) and it has nothing to do with thinking other makers barrels are inferior and everything to do with having never be wronged by their stuff, the barrels Iíve gotten from them just plain shoot, hole ontop of hole, every time, they may cost a bit more but I feel you are getting your moneys worth and so I keep buying their barrels! For small parts I favor Power Custom, I love the big chunky tungsten bolt handle the offer for the 17 conversion.

saturno_v
June 5, 2009, 11:41 AM
Ragged


I saw personally what an Aguila Interceptor Hollow Point does to a Prairie Dog at almost 150 yards...and it was fairly impressive...almost typical "red mist"

Maybe the rapid fragmenting 17 will give you more "spectacular" results...but to me, dead is dead...

I agree that people that says ""mach 2 costs 3 times as much" do compare apples to oranges....high quality 22 LR ammo cost almost as much...but with a 22 LR i do have the flexibility to use the el cheapo stuff for fun....

The problem in accuracy for the 22 (as for almost any round) is if your target is beyond the supersonic range of the bullet...then your accuracy may suffer...

Myself, I'm planning to buy a more powerful small caliber rifle for the occasional varmint control....and I'm not considering any of these new 17 rimfires....I'm waiting for the price nonsense to calm down and get a semi-auto 223 or if I can find a good deal on a bolt action 223 or 22 Hornet...

Maverick223
June 5, 2009, 01:03 PM
Maverick, you might contact Bo Clerke in Raton, NM. He told me his shop produces some 150+ barrels per week, in .17, .20 and .22 calibers. He must be the source for many factory rifles. I've seen ads in Shotgun News for Clerke match target barrels for 10/22s for around $80.

Bo holds numerous patents, and has won many awards in .22 bencrest shooting with rifles that he built. Helluva nice guy, as well; I really enjoyed the guided tour of his operation.Thanks for the info Art. I will give him a call.

KzoneAL
June 5, 2009, 01:24 PM
If u cant search or post your not registered Did u get a confirmation email?

SureThing
June 13, 2009, 10:37 AM
I bought a CZ 17HMR off of gunbroker. Sold it, it was an impulse buy. Found at my local gun shop, a new Marlin 917, stainless, lamanated stock, heavy barrel in .17 HM2. I have not shot it yet, picked it up 30 min ago. $265 OTD.

It is now for sale, going back to a 22, I only shoot at 50yds.

Maverick223
June 13, 2009, 10:57 AM
If u cant search or post your not registered Did u get a confirmation email?Sorry for the sloooow response...must have missed it. I could search, but the search is horrible (couldn't find "10/22 .17", "10/17" et al) and can't post for some reason (although I received the confirmation).

Also, Bo Clerke apparently no longer makes 10/17 barrels. When I called last week they said that they had problems with re receivers on conversion guns, so they discontinued the line.

Maverick223
June 13, 2009, 11:02 AM
It has a T900 trigger. Anyone know how to make the pull lighter, and if I can get a metal trigger to replace the plactic one?I think rifle basix has what you need...but it isn't cheap. http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/Default.aspx#marlin%20917%20trigger____-_1-2-4_8-16-32

rangerruck
June 13, 2009, 01:12 PM
go over to rimfirecentral.com, they have threads showing how to lighten that trigger. also there is a dude over there, who has a thread showing sale , right now, in the marlin thread, for sale parts for 22 rifles. most are for ruger, but he has some marlin parts coming on line now; bolt handles, triggers, bottom plates, etc.

but the very first thing you do; replace the trigger return spring with a lighter spring, or cut a coil
off the factory one. that will help instantly. also, you will proly wanna channel out that stock a bit;
I know, you may think not, but I have had enough of the heavy bbl marlins, in 17 and mach 2, to know better... once you heat it up on the range, especially if shooting in bright sunlight, eventually that bbl will expand enough to touch a side of the channel somewhere.

SureThing
June 14, 2009, 11:14 PM
I bought it, shot it, liked it, but have decided just to stay with 22lr's. So it is now for sale in the For Sale Threads.

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