June 1, 2009, 04:59 PM
I was thinking about the variations in which people can carry a concealed firearm and was wondering how you guys carried.
As in strong side, crossdraw, small of back, outside of waist band, inside waist band, what kind of cover garments you use. Do you ever carry off body?
I personally usually carry strong side with an IWB holster. My cover garment is usually just a short sleeve button up shirt with an undershirt between the gun and me.
I've also heard of people concealing full size 1911s in an OWB holster wearing just a T-Shirt. I don't think it's possible but if one of you guys does it send pics and I salute you.
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June 1, 2009, 05:36 PM
Usually just a J-frame revolver in the back pocket while wearing a long shirt.
June 1, 2009, 05:48 PM
I carry all my pistols in IWBs. Which one I take with me depends on what I am wearing. My J-frame for shorter t-shirts, my Kahr for shirts that are a little longer and a Springfield subcompact if I am wearing a sweatshirt or a coat.
June 1, 2009, 05:51 PM
Strong side IWB by the kidney canted forward.
The Wiry Irishman
June 1, 2009, 06:08 PM
Most of the time I'll carry a 1911 in a strong side IWB, canted forward. When circumstances won't allow me to conceal that, I'll carry a PPK/s in either a lightweight shoulder rig, or a tuckable appendix holster.
June 1, 2009, 06:10 PM
38 special snub nose- strong side front IWB, t-shirt over.... or, when less concerned about concealment, OWB on strong side...
June 1, 2009, 06:12 PM
Glock 19, strong side, OWB with a big linen shirt over it.
June 1, 2009, 06:42 PM
I like to carry IWB strong side at 4:30. It's a J frame or K frame subbie for me. In the winter when wearing heavier clothing I also carry OWB.
June 1, 2009, 07:36 PM
I pocket carry. Right front pocket unless I'm wearing cargo shorts/pants, then it's in my right front cargo pocket.
June 1, 2009, 07:45 PM
Smith 442 in my right front pocket... ...Unless it's in my right rear pocket... (it's somewhat less sweat-producing there sometimes)...
June 1, 2009, 07:48 PM
In shorts I pocket carry but for jeans or anything else with smaller pockets it is IWB strongside
June 1, 2009, 08:07 PM
I pocket carry an LCP in a Desantis Superfly holster, using the print cover. I'd probably carry strong side IWB if I wasn't so paranoid about arcane NY rules.
I find that I am also able to carry my J Frame IWB under most conditions, but its just not worth it - downgrading to 5 shots instead of 7 (although increasing in power) while carrying in a more precarious method.
June 1, 2009, 08:13 PM
Let's see . . . of the methods I use to carry regularly:
J-frame in a front pants pocket.
Small auto in front pants pocket.
BUG in offside pocket.
Large auto OWB about 3:30, t-shirt + open light cover garment draped over.
Large auto IWB about 3:30, t-shirt only.
Large OWB cross draw with heavy shirt or jacket cover garment.
Large IWB cross draw with heavy shirt or jacket cover garment.
Coronado leather (http://www.coronadoleather.com/) vest - either side in the 'shoulder holster' position.
Mix & match as necessary for appropriate clothing. I like the versatility, though I give up something in "reflex" time to draw.
June 1, 2009, 08:16 PM
Shoulder holster or belly bag.
June 1, 2009, 08:18 PM
Open carry in Kydex paddle holster
June 1, 2009, 09:16 PM
smith 442 in the front pocket. speedloader in the other pocket.
June 1, 2009, 09:23 PM
open sometimes and concealed sometimes
June 1, 2009, 09:37 PM
I don't think it's possible but if one of you guys does it send pics and I salute you.
Well, I use an IWB with T-shirt and cargo shorts.
June 1, 2009, 10:48 PM
Belt clip, forget the holster.
June 2, 2009, 10:02 AM
I carry my 1911 strongside in a Blackhawk IWB leather holster w/ a slight forward cant. I can conceal this in just about any type of clothes I would normally go out in
I have also carried a Taurus 85 in an IWB holster when I could not conceal the 1911.
June 2, 2009, 10:09 AM
J frame IWB appendix area with a homemade kydex holster.
It hides the best (on me) and just happens to be the fastest for me to draw.
Plus I can still keep my keys and knife in my pocket.
June 2, 2009, 10:14 AM
G19, IWB @ 4:00 canted forward because OC is not yet allowed in Florida.
June 2, 2009, 10:32 AM
I was just about to post a few basics when I tripped on this thread.
IWB strongside between 12 and 2 depending on comfort, with a black tank or t-shirt under my outer shirt to mask the color of the XD incase my shirt happens to rise.
My kid hugs my leg sometimes and moves the bottom of my shirt.
Same location for the snub or the Kel Tec. Not comfy with 1911 concealed for my body shape. Big gun and washboard abs don't go well in the mirror.
Also, Realtree shirts work well for too. All people see is the breakup of the images, not the print if any of the gun.
June 2, 2009, 12:35 PM
Mostly I carry strong side IWB canted forward a bit. I've also carried small of the back before but found that it's not as comfortable when sitting.
June 2, 2009, 01:08 PM
Not comfy with 1911 concealed for my body shape. Big gun and washboard abs don't go well in the mirror.
I tend to carry so that the gun sits in the space next to my abs and transverse abdominus.
Works great for me.
I'm carrying the full size 1911 in that picture
June 2, 2009, 01:22 PM
These might give you some information to better conceal your weapon. These are the cues knowledgeable people use to detect concealed weapons, so learn them and don稚 do them.:)
I. NEW FINDINGS FROM FBI ABOUT COP ATTACKERS & THEIR WEAPONS
New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.
Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:
末show signs of being armed that officers miss;
末have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than their intended victims;
末practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;
末have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. "If you hesitate," one told the study's researchers, "you're dead. You have the instinct or you don't. If you don't, you're in trouble on the street...."
These and other weapons-related findings comprise one chapter in a 180-page research summary called "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers." The study is the third in a series of long investigations into fatal and nonfatal attacks on POs by the FBI team of Dr. Anthony Pinizzotto, clinical forensic psychologist, and Ed Davis, criminal investigative instructor, both with the Bureau's Behavioral Science Unit, and Charles Miller III, coordinator of the LEOs Killed and Assaulted program.
"Violent Encounters" also reports in detail on the personal characteristics of attacked officers and their assaulters, the role of perception in life-threatening confrontations, the myths of memory that can hamper OIS investigations, the suicide-by-cop phenomenon, current training issues, and other matters relevant to officer survival. (Force Science News and our strategic partner PoliceOne.com will be reporting on more findings from this landmark study in future transmissions.)
Commenting on the broad-based study, Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato, called it "very challenging and insightful末important work that only a handful of gifted and experienced researchers could accomplish."
From a pool of more than 800 incidents, the researchers selected 40, involving 43 offenders (13 of them admitted gangbangers-drug traffickers) and 50 officers, for in-depth exploration. They visited crime scenes and extensively interviewed surviving officers and attackers alike, most of the latter in prison.
Here are highlights of what they learned about weapon selection, familiarity, transport and use by criminals attempting to murder cops, a small portion of the overall research:
Predominately handguns were used in the assaults on officers and all but one were obtained illegally, usually in street transactions or in thefts. In contrast to media myth, none of the firearms in the study was obtained from gun shows. What was available "was the overriding factor in weapon choice," the report says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a particular gun "because he felt it would do the most damage to a human being."
Researcher Davis, in a presentation and discussion for the International Assn. of Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the attackers interviewed was "hindered by any law末federal, state or local末that has ever been established to prevent gun ownership. They just laughed at gun laws."
Several of the offenders began regularly to carry weapons when they were 9 to 12 years old, although the average age was 17 when they first started packing "most of the time." Gang members especially started young.
Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% "regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year," the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and "street corners in known drug-trafficking areas."
One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers "go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything."
In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills," the study says.
The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.
More than 40% of the offenders had been involved in actual shooting confrontations before they feloniously assaulted an officer. Ten of these "street combat veterans," all from "inner-city, drug-trafficking environments," had taken part in 5 or more "criminal firefight experiences" in their lifetime.
One reported that he was 14 when he was first shot on the street, "about 18 before a cop shot me." Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience "because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again."
Again in contrast, only 8 of the 50 LEO victims had participated in a prior shooting; 1 had been involved in 2 previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8 had killed offenders.
The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.
In motor vehicles, they most often kept their firearm readily available on their person, or, less often, under the seat. In residences, most stashed their weapon under a pillow, on a nightstand, under the mattress末somewhere within immediate reach while in bed.
Almost all carried when on the move and strong majorities did so when socializing, committing crimes or being at home. About one-third brought weapons with them to work. Interestingly, the offenders in this study more commonly admitted having guns under all these circumstances than did offenders interviewed in the researchers' earlier 2 surveys, conducted in the 1980s and '90s.
According to Davis, "Male offenders said time and time again that female officers tend to search them more thoroughly than male officers. In prison, most of the offenders were more afraid to carry contraband or weapons when a female CO was on duty."
On the street, however, both male and female officers too often regard female subjects "as less of a threat, assuming that they not going to have a gun," Davis said. In truth, the researchers concluded that more female offenders are armed today than 20 years ago末"not just female gang associates, but female offenders generally."
Twenty-six of the offenders [about 60%], including all of the street combat veterans, "claimed to be instinctive shooters, pointing and firing the weapon without consciously aligning the sights," the study says.
"They practice getting the gun out and using it," Davis explained. "They shoot for effect." Or as one of the offenders put it: "[W]e're not working with no marksmanship....We just putting it in your direction, you know....It don't matter...as long as it's gonna hit you...if it's up at your head or your chest, down at your legs, whatever....Once I squeeze and you fall, then...if I want to execute you, then I could go from there."
More often than the officers they attacked, offenders delivered at least some rounds on target in their encounters. Nearly 70% of assailants were successful in that regard with handguns, compared to about 40% of the victim officers, the study found. (Efforts of offenders and officers to get on target were considered successful if any rounds struck, regardless of the number fired.)
Davis speculated that the offenders might have had an advantage because in all but 3 cases they fired first, usually catching the officer by surprise. Indeed, the report points out, "10 of the total victim officers had been wounded [and thus impaired] before they returned gunfire at their attackers."
Officers would less likely be caught off guard by attackers if they were more observant of indicators of concealed weapons, the study concludes. These particularly include manners of dress, ways of moving and unconscious gestures often related to carrying.
"Officers should look for unnatural protrusions or bulges in the waist, back and crotch areas," the study says, and watch for "shirts that appear rippled or wavy on one side of the body while the fabric on the other side appears smooth." In warm weather, multilayered clothing inappropriate to the temperature may be a giveaway. On cold or rainy days, a subject's jacket hood may not be covering his head because it is being used to conceal a handgun.
Because they eschew holsters, offenders reported frequently touching a concealed gun with hands or arms "to assure themselves that it is still hidden, secure and accessible" and hasn't shifted. Such gestures are especially noticeable "whenever individuals change body positions, such as standing, sitting or exiting a vehicle." If they run, they may need to keep a constant grip on a hidden gun to control it.
Just as cops generally blade their body to make their sidearm less accessible, armed criminals "do the same in encounters with LEOs to ensure concealment and easy access."
An irony, Davis noted, is that officers who are assigned to look for concealed weapons, while working off-duty security at night clubs for instance, are often highly proficient at detecting them. "But then when they go back to the street without that specific assignment, they seem to 'turn off' that skill," and thus are startled末sometimes fatally末when a suspect suddenly produces a weapon and attacks.
Thirty-six of the 50 officers in the study had "experienced hazardous situations where they had the legal authority" to use deadly force "but chose not to shoot." They averaged 4 such prior incidents before the encounters that the researchers investigated. "It appeared clear that none of these officers were willing to use deadly force against an offender if other options were available," the researchers concluded.
The offenders were of a different mind-set entirely. In fact, Davis said the study team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of offender is. They have been exposed to killing after killing, they fully expect to get killed and they don't hesitate to shoot anybody, including a police officer. They can go from riding down the street saying what a beautiful day it is to killing in the next instant."
"Offenders typically displayed no moral or ethical restraints in using firearms," the report states. "In fact, the street combat veterans survived by developing a shoot-first mentality.
"Officers never can assume that a criminal is unarmed until they have thoroughly searched the person and the surroundings themselves." Nor, in the interest of personal safety, can officers "let their guards down in any type of law enforcement situation."
June 2, 2009, 01:35 PM
Strong side, front pocket carry offers tactical advantages.
June 2, 2009, 03:04 PM
June 2, 2009, 04:10 PM
snubby in leather holster between belt and pants strong side. Barrel/holster fits into change pocket, and covered by untucked polo wearing jeans. Would forget it was there if I didnt carry my keys in the same pocket. For cooler weather when a jacket is permitted or clothing that permits larger concealment, IWB strong side with a larger weapon such as my XD.
June 2, 2009, 05:36 PM
Full size 1911 w/overshirt - mostly tropical
Milt Sparks #Axiom ( OWB w/FBI Cant )
MIlt Sparks 1 1/2" Belt
Milt Sparks Single IWB Mag carrier
June 2, 2009, 05:43 PM
Full size 1911 in a UBG iwb holster on the strong side. I am built for action not speed so concealing a 1911 on my body is not difficult.
June 2, 2009, 10:20 PM
J-frame in the pocket -- sometimes front pocket, sometimes back...
June 3, 2009, 12:49 AM
Refering to Reaper's what not to do post it reminded me of how many gangbangers in my area dress. I almost envy them because the way they dress I could conceal an ak-47 and walk down the street without getting made.
Giant shirts, giant pants, giant jackets. How can you not conceal a gun in something like that? Didn't mean to go off the tracks here.
Kind of Blued
June 3, 2009, 01:01 AM
1911 IWB @ 3:00 in a Comp-Tac M_Tac
Spare mag in weak front pocket
S&W 642 on left ankle in a Galco Ankle Glove
I have about 15 different other combinations between three guns depending upon weather, dress, destination, etc. It's a P.I.T.A.
June 3, 2009, 07:47 AM
Commander or K9 strong side IWB in a Milt Sparks Summer Special, S&W M49 or Colt DS pocket carry, Glock 32 in a fanny pack. I don't carry OWB unless it is open carry.
June 3, 2009, 05:28 PM
Strong side, IWB. I carry a Colt Commander in either a Milt Sparks Executive Companion or a Galco NSA
June 4, 2009, 12:29 AM
Bersa Thunder, or Charter Arms Undercover, in an IWB holster, though not inside the pants, but inside the belt only (between belt and pants.) Strong side, which is left for me, just aft of hip (approximately 7-8 o-clock.)
June 4, 2009, 01:38 AM
Strong side lefty. IWB at 8:00 position, or OWB covered with a light jacket.
June 4, 2009, 02:12 AM
Why don't you wear it inside your pants, MedWheeler?
June 4, 2009, 09:59 AM
I just had the pleasure of viewing REAPER's picture and boy some of those movements I made before I began to carry.
Got an itch, scratch it. Keys digging in my leg, adjust em'. Gotta' adjust my package, adjust it.
But now I'm gonna be peranoid about my movements.
June 4, 2009, 10:11 AM
Depends on what I am wearing. Dress slacks w/ large pockets = G27 in DeSantis Nemesis strong side pocket; Jeans / shorts w/ light shirt = Scandium J-Frame .38+P in strong side pocket in no-name leather pocket holster w/ "anti-print" flap, Jeans / un-tucked button shirt = 5" 1911 in a strong side high ride OWB pancake w/ FBI forward cant, or XDm .40 in a CB supertuck. I can't find a belt strong enough to comfortably belt carry full size w/ dress slacks, so the G27 in the front pocket is my 5 day a week choice. I always carry at least one spare mag or speedloader in the weak-side pocket; two when carrying the G27 just to help balance the load. I am 6' 250lbs, so my pockets are large enough for the chunky Glock.
June 4, 2009, 11:05 AM
Galco Miami Classic with a 1911.
Ken Null SMZ for a K-frame.
Some nylon Bianchi OWB with a Sig 226.
Pockets (pants or jacket) for others.
June 4, 2009, 09:50 PM
DavidsDivad, most of my pants aren't big enough to accommodate both me and the gun/holster combo. It's just more comfortable the way I do it..
June 4, 2009, 10:06 PM
I carry IWB and in a Fanny pack Winter I carry OWB.
June 6, 2009, 09:48 AM
For the last month I've been carrying a USPc in a Raven Concealment appendix rig (which I must say I'm very impressed with) with the gun placed at 1:00 and two spare mags at about 8:00. Otherwise I carry strongside OWB at 3:00 position. 99% of the time the only cover garment is an untucked t-shirt
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