Check out this genius


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clange
October 18, 2003, 04:09 PM
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/Columnists.nsf/Leonard+Pitts/3CD7A016F52FAB3486256DC30032EE17?OpenDocument&Headline=An+NRA+enemies+list%3F+How+come+I'm+not+on+it%3F&highlight=2%2Cpitts

An NRA enemies list? How come I'm not on it?
By Leonard Pitts
10/18/2003


I am the world's leading expert in temptology. As such, I know just about every trivial thing there is to know about Motown's storied singing group, The Temptations.

I know they recorded once as The Pirates. I know they were the first Motown act to win a Grammy.

But the one thing I didn't know was how they wound up on an enemy's list posted by the National Rifle Association.

We have Bob Herbert to thank for alerting us to said list. The New York Times columnist recently disclosed the fact that, if you dig around the NRA's Web site, you'll find a compilation of "anti-gun" journalists, officials, groups and celebrities - an old-fashioned, honest-to-Nixon enemy's list.

Among the other names: Oprah Winfrey, Bruce Springsteen, Spike Lee, Paul Newman, Michael Eisner and singer Moon Zappa. Under the apparent theory that one doesn't stop being an enemy just because one stops breathing, the list also includes Ann Landers and former Atlanta Mayor Maynard Jackson.

I'm sure this all raises for you the same searing question it raised for me:
Why didn't Leonard Pitts make the list!? I'm anti-gun, too!

Actually, my exclusion is probably my own fault. I don't write about guns that often. Worse, my opinion doesn't translate easily to a bumper sticker.

I believe the right to keep and bear arms is a fiction. Legal experts I respect - including Departments of Justice previous to the current one - have all held that the Second Amendment confers no right of individual gun ownership.

But - and here's the tricky part - I also believe the perception of such a right is so deeply ingrained in the American psyche that the legal niceties are largely immaterial. As a practical matter, the right exists.

I'm reminded of the First Amendment attorney who told me that as a strictly legal issue, it can be argued that the Constitution grants you no right to read this newspaper. Yes, freedom of speech allows the newspaper to print what it wants, but where is it written that you have a right to have access to it?

Nevertheless, the perception of such a right is so much a part of the American character that if government tried to deny it, newspaper readers would take to the streets in protest. It's the same with the gun owners except, of course, that they'd be better armed.

So I hate guns. But I also accept that they're not going anywhere.

The question is: What can we do within that reality?

Unfortunately, extremists on both sides of the issue have robbed us of the ability to do much. We are in dying need of mandatory registration and training to govern those who choose to own guns and sensible laws to prevent their use by those who have no business with them. At a minimum, we need to be able to discuss the issue rationally.

But we'll never have that ability so long as gun control advocates tar responsible gun owners as "gun nuts" and cling to the fantasy that guns can be erased from these shores. We'll also never have it so long as gun owners' interests are represented by an organization that sets new standards for crazy.

The NRA, by the way, says The Tempts earned their way onto its list by lending their name to an anti-gun newspaper ad in 1999.

The nerve. Still, you'll forgive me if I call this predilection for listing enemies a sweaty, shifty-eyed, hunker-in-the-bunker mentality recalling Nixon at his worst.

In the face of such asininity, of paranoia beyond parody, I have just one thing to say to the NRA:

There are two T's in Pitts.

Copyright The Miami Herald
E-mail: lpitts@herald.com


So his first amendment attorney thinks the constitution grants rights? :uhoh: Then the genius part about collective rights, as if the DOJ under clinton is such a definitive source.

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MicroBalrog
October 18, 2003, 04:17 PM
We are in dying need of mandatory registration

Says who?:neener:

Navy joe
October 18, 2003, 07:43 PM
Okay, I read this earlier today and think we should send him some reasoned e-mail responses. Topics of addressal should include all the laws we already have, the de facto registration that exists, and most importantly the list. I'm pretty sure the NAACP keeps a list right? Heck, they had a whole state, SC, on it for awhile. The NRA list doesn't mean we want to go out and start offing these people, just that we think that politcal enemies don't need our money.

Hey, he's not braindead: Nevertheless, the perception of such a right is so much a part of the American character that if government tried to deny it, newspaper readers would take to the streets in protest. It's the same with the gun owners except, of course, that they'd be better armed. So I hate guns. But I also accept that they're not going anywhere.


Amazing, us bearing arms prevents some mob of soccer moms from determining our fate. Guns as insurance of free will, what a novel concept.

I don't think there is much point in trying to argue that it is a right with Mr. Pitts, but maybe pointing out some of the documents and quotes leading up to the Constitution that support the "insurrectionist" theory may be relevant.

NewShooter78
October 18, 2003, 07:52 PM
Well since he hasn't gotten any attention for his views, except for the couple of threads here, I don't want to encourage him.

Standing Wolf
October 18, 2003, 09:15 PM
I also believe the perception of such a right is so deeply ingrained in the American psyche that the legal niceties are largely immaterial. As a practical matter, the right exists.

He appears not to know whether he's mounted or afoot, headed north, south, or northeast by southwest.

C.R.Sam
October 18, 2003, 09:48 PM
As a practical matter, the right exists. Well, at least he got that part right.

Now all he needs is to understand the rather complicated phrase..."Shall not be infringed."

Sam

Quartus
October 18, 2003, 09:56 PM
Well, he's absolutely right about his main point:

the Second Amendment confers no right of individual gun ownership.


It simply recognizes a right that already exists.


Somehow I suspect the distinction would be lost on him...

Zundfolge
October 18, 2003, 11:17 PM
I believe the right to keep and bear arms is a fiction. Legal experts I respect - including Departments of Justice previous to the current one - have all held that the Second Amendment confers no right of individual gun ownership.

Another idiot who thinks rights are nothing more then privileges bestowed upon us by the benevolent state.

My right to keep and bare arms comes from God (or nature for you atheists out there) NOT from the US (or any other) government.

Ironbarr
October 18, 2003, 11:55 PM
Yes, freedom of speech allows the newspaper to print what it wants, but where is it written that you have a right to have access to it? The active word he missed is PUBLICation.

Nuff said.

gunsmith
October 19, 2003, 03:46 AM
and only read free day old copies of Miami Herald and do not
patronize it's advertizers.:evil:

Quartus
October 19, 2003, 12:13 PM
We'll also never have it so long as gun owners' interests are represented by an organization that sets new standards for crazy.

The NRA


Yeah, he's right on this one, too. Supporting Project Exile, AWB, anti-gun politicos who just happen to call themselves Republicans. etc., etc.



At a minimum, we need to be able to discuss the issue rationally.


Well, that let's HIM out! :D

Navy joe
October 19, 2003, 11:27 PM
http://www.naacp.org/work/economic/EconomicReciprocity.shtml

Well I'll be, the NAACP has an "enemies list" too. Be sure to check out the links to the industry report cards, they feature a prominent statement at the bottom to "support companies that support you". Many of those companies are getting bad grades not because of discriminatory practices but because ownership is not spread out to enough minorities. Work hard, move up and you can be CEO, I'm not sure a report card saying how unfair it all is helps. I feel that the NAACP has outlived its purpose and is now a racially divisive organization. I think that for me personally it would be morally wrong and unamerican to make race based purchasing decisions so I do not. Maybe the NAACP should do the same.

Why are guns different? Well, for one, owning a gun these days sometimes feels like living in the Jim Crow south. There's still signs on the door that say I'm not welcome. Second, giving money to antis is handing money to an enemy. They are an enemy because once I'm disarmed I am subject to their will and so is Mr. Pitts. I really see very few cases of racial animosity of an equivalent level, they hit the news fast and rightly so, except for the reverse cases...

I'm sure that the NAACP list is good and the NRA bad. I'm sure that explaining that gun control laws are Jim Crow laws would be lost on Mr. Pitts too.

Strings
October 20, 2003, 01:44 AM
>Unfortunately, extremists on both sides of the issue have robbed us of the ability to do much. We are in dying need of mandatory registration and training to govern those who choose to own guns and sensible laws to prevent their use by those who have no business with them. At a minimum, we need to be able to discuss the issue rationally.<

Ok... everyone be honest now. Who here thinks that mandatory safety training (of the real variety) is a bad thing? And if it wasn't even a possibility that registration would lead to confiscation (which is probably the way this guy sees it), would you REALLY kick up that much fuss?

>But we'll never have that ability so long as gun control advocates tar responsible gun owners as "gun nuts" and cling to the fantasy that guns can be erased from these shores.<

And here he's telling the complete truth. Of course, he kinda misses with the next bit:

> We'll also never have it so long as gun owners' interests are represented by an organization that sets new standards for crazy.<

The NRA?!?!?!? Since when?!?!? And, saying for the moment that he's right in his assessment of the NRA (and most here), haven't we been MADE that way by the antis?

He really isn't that far off people. Granted, most groups with any kind of agenda are going to have some form of "enemies list"... goes with the territory. But with the above, he's fairly correct...


Ok... lemmie get the asbestos underoos out now...

Navy joe
October 20, 2003, 04:22 PM
Ok... everyone be honest now. Who here thinks that mandatory safety training (of the real variety) is a bad thing? And if it wasn't even a possibility that registration would lead to confiscation (which is probably the way this guy sees it), would you REALLY kick up that much fuss?

Yes, "real" mandatory safety training is bad. Here is why. Safety training for a gun must include competence in weapons manipulations as well as being able to hit the target so unsafe doesn't go down range. The current state mandated trainings are usually a joke. All you have to do as a state rep to make a de facto carry ban is to say "96 hours of_____or equivalent training." They could in effect mandate a Gunsite 5 day pistol course as the required training and put CCW financially out of reach of lots of folks. Now I'd be all for this if the state also mandated a 600 state income tax credit to be spent on training. Don't see that happening.
Current state training requirements are bad because the folks sit through it, shoot 15 rounds, practice twice a year and think they're armed. Who is liable when this trainee shoots someone he's not supposed to? The state?
If people are enough of adults to carry a gun, they can decide on their own about training.
Furthermore, you don't need a training pre-requisite if you don't have to go down to the courthouse and ask permission to carry. See Vermont and Alaska.

Quartus
October 20, 2003, 04:40 PM
Ok... everyone be honest now. Who here thinks that mandatory safety training (of the real variety) is a bad thing?

Me. Why? It ain't their business. All discussions about how effective it is are a red herring.


And if it wasn't even a possibility that registration would lead to confiscation (which is probably the way this guy sees it), would you REALLY kick up that much fuss?



Yes. Again, it ain't their business. Period.

ARperson
October 20, 2003, 05:36 PM
Surprised no one mentioned this part of the discussion.

While the BoR confers no powers, but rather iterates them to avoid any misunderstanding (guess the FF didn't quite get that part right), 1, and 3-10 are undeniably individual rights. Now why in the world wouldn't the 2nd be an individual right too? :rolleyes: That's the one I use most often when I hear people talking about a collective right.

That and this handy dandy little book I've got that's chock full of quotes of the FF with nothing but pro-gun rights/ownership ideas. Kinda blows holes in their idea that the FF didn't mean for individual to own guns when the FF themselves say it right there! :p

Frohickey
October 20, 2003, 06:09 PM
Mandatory training... if only gun manufacturers added a coupon for a $25 discount for a $100 Frontsight or Gunsight course, it would be just fine by me. It could even be subsidized by Winchester/Remington/Federal. That ought to spur a spike in ammunition sales. :D

Somehow, I don't think the gun-grabbers are gonna be for this.

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