Ohio HB 203: Removing prohibition on self-defense while dining


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Cyclimus
June 2, 2009, 05:16 PM
6/2/09: HB203 was introduced in the Ohio Legislature.

All Ohioans need to contact their representatives to support this revision to our concealed carry laws to allow us to eat in most restaurants WITHOUT disarming. Notification from Ohioans for Concealed Carry below.

One of the most frequently requested changes to Ohio law by concealed handgun licensees is to remove the ban on self-defense while dining in a nice restaurant. Under current Ohio law, concealed handgun license (CHL) holders are prohibited from carrying their handgun into any restaurant which has a class D liquor permit and serves liquor regardless of whether or not that person is consuming alcohol. This means virtually all restaurants other than fast food places or diners are off limits. Ohio is one of the few states with such severe restrictions, as thirty-nine states, including every state surrounding Ohio, have a provision for self defense while dining and several more are considering an exception as well.

Earlier this year, OFCC's Secretary/Treasurer Daniel White worked with the OFCC Coordinator committee and drafted a bill to address this shortcoming. We are pleased to announce that this bill has been introduced!

House Bill 203, sponsored by Danny Bupb and Jarrod Martin, was submitted today and will soon be assigned to a committee. This important fix would add restaurants to the current exemption that covers class D retail stores provided the licensee is not consuming alcohol. The bill was cosponsored by 16 other legislators, including Representatives Adams, J., Amstutz, Blair, Combs, Hall, Huffman, Jones, Jordan, Maag, McGregor, Sears, Snitchler, Uecker, Wachtmann, Wagner, and Zehringer.

"The anti-gun crowd likes to talk about 'common sense' gun laws," said White. "Is it common sense to prohibit licensed individuals from being able to protect themselves just because they happen to be in a restaurant that serves alcohol? I can have a root beer and a cheeseburger at McDonald's while carrying my firearm and it's perfectly legal, but if I go across the street to Applebee's and have the same meal I'm committing a felony! How is that common sense?"

This point was clearly illustrated in Tennessee in early April when Benjamin Felix Goeser was gunned down as he and his wife were leaving a sports bar. Nicole Goeser had a concealed handgun license, but her gun was locked in her car because, like Ohio, Tennessee prohibits licensees from carrying in a restaurant that serves alcohol even if you're not drinking.


Arizona, Illinois, Louisiana, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Wisconsin are the only states with a complete prohibition (source: handgunlaw.us).

The change is very simple, tacking on restaurants to the existing exemption for retail stores as found in ORC 2923.121. If this bill is enacted, it would still be a felony for a CHL holder to consume alcohol in the restaurant. Concealed carry in such restaurants would only be legal if the CHL holder is not drinking.

This is just the first step in a long process, and we encourage all our members and supporters to contact their legislators early and often to urge them to pass this bill before the legislature takes their summer break.



Further reading:

2923.121(e) Any person who is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued to the person by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code and who possesses the firearm in a retail food establishment or food service operation with any class liquor permit issued for that location under section 4303 of the Revised Code, or in a retail store with D-6 and D-8 permits issued for that store under sections 4303.182 and 4303.184 of the Revised Code or a D-8 permit issued for that store under section 4303.184 of the Revised Code, as long as the person is not consuming liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.

Definitions (ORC 3717.01):

(C) “Retail food establishment” means a premises or part of a premises where food is stored, processed, prepared, manufactured, or otherwise held or handled for retail sale. Except when expressly provided otherwise, “retail food establishment” includes a mobile retail food establishment, seasonal retail food establishment, and temporary retail food establishment.

(F)“Food service operation” means a place, location, site, or separate area where food intended to be served in individual portions is prepared or served for a charge or required donation. As used in this division, “served” means a response made to an order for one or more individual portions of food in a form that is edible without washing, cooking, or additional preparation and “prepared” means any action that affects a food other than receiving or maintaining it at the temperature at which it was received.

Except when expressly provided otherwise, “food service operation” includes a catering food service operation, food delivery sales operation, mobile food service operation, seasonal food service operation, temporary food service operation, and vending machine location.

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Starcheck55
June 3, 2009, 07:06 PM
i'll be keeping my fingers crossed on this one (and contacting reps)

scf4003
June 3, 2009, 09:01 PM
Thanks!
I emailed my Reps ..

I_AM_LEGEND
August 5, 2009, 09:52 PM
what's going on with this bill, has it passed hopefully, I can't find any info

rtroha
August 6, 2009, 12:08 PM
The Ohio General Assembly is currently on summer recess and won't be back in business until September.

The bill was assigned to the Public Safety and Homeland Security Committee. No hearings have yet been held on the bill as the committee chairman resigned last spring and has not yet been replaced.

Once the Ohio House gets back to business next month and the Speaker assigns a new chairman to the committee, maybe some hearings will be scheduled. I'll be pleased if this bill actually makes it out of committee and gets voted by the House by the end of the year.

Then the bill has to go through the whole process again in the Ohio Senate. All-in-all, it's a very slow process.

{OF}BadDaWg
March 26, 2010, 08:53 PM
This was to be voted on 3/24 or 3/25 2010.
I see no vote count on the ohio gov web sight.

CCW permit holder, here

But, I see this as a sticky situation.
Yes, I carry ~90% of the time.
Where is the line going to be drawn?
To start with, it first said, "NOT INTOXICATED" , now I am told it is as long as you are not consuming liquor.
Ok, the local biker bar..... yes they serve lunch, Im in there at 1:00 AM on my way home from Aunt June's house, and I am armed.
Im looking at the "NOT INTOXICATED" line.
I have one beer with my buddy's, am I now in violation?
Wait a min. officer, they serve food here!!!!
"No sir, not at 1:00 in the morning"
See what I mean?

huntsman
March 27, 2010, 05:40 PM
Senate committee hears testimony on SB239 (Restaurant Carry & Car Carry Rules Fix)
printable page
Submitted by cbaus on Thu, 03/25/2010 - 15:00. Ohio LegislationOhio PoliticsBFA NewsGun Rights GroupsGuns in the News
Buckeye Firearms Association leaders were on hand Tuesday at a Senate Judiciary on Criminal Justice Committee hearing. The committee, which is chaired by Sen. Tim Grendell (R-18), head sponsor and proponent testimony on Senate Bill 239, which seeks to allow citizens who hold a valid concealed handgun license (CHL) to carry a firearm in restaurants, and to reduce burdensome restrictions regarding how a license holder must transport a firearm in a car.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7195

whalerman
March 27, 2010, 06:35 PM
I don't believe you should drink AT ALL if you are carrying or hunting. Alcohol and deadly physical force, which is what you may have to decide to use, do not mix. If you go into a bar, have fun. But unless your weapon is secured, drink Coke and eat beer nuts.


If you are hunting, alcohol does not get opened until your weapon gets put away for the day. And each club/individual should think carefully about putting real limits on how much time a person should drink into the night and still be fit to hunt in the early morning hours. You can't drink till 3am and head out at 5am. Use your head.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I love freedom. I love the Constitution, the Second Ammendment as it reads. Firearms. Hunting. And comraderie. I hate alcohol related accidents.

Yo Mama
March 27, 2010, 06:59 PM
I don't believe you should drink AT ALL if you are carrying or hunting. Alcohol and deadly physical force, which is what you may have to decide to use, do not mix. If you go into a bar, have fun. But unless your weapon is secured, drink Coke and eat beer nuts.


I'll be kinder than when I first posted, and say don't provide an opinion that effects my ability to defend myself in any way shape or manner. Just because I choose to drink, doesn't mean I agree to be mugged. It's not your right or responsibility to say this should apply to anyone but yourself.

whalerman
March 27, 2010, 11:49 PM
When you choose to drink, your judgment is affected. That is not my opinion, that is fact. You should be able to exercise your rights to defend yourself uninfringed by anyone. But when you decide to impair yourself by using alcohol you are stepping on all around you, and you are providing the anti's valuable fodder to use against freedom lovers like ourselves. If you are armed with a deadly weapon, you are obligated to all of us to present yourself in the most prepared and stable manner possible. When you drink, you are not doing that.

When I carry concealed, I am prepared for the possibility for having to use deadly physical force. I certainly don't want to add alcohol to the equation. I believe I owe that to myself, my family, and to fellow citizens.

Yo Mama
March 28, 2010, 10:02 AM
When you choose to drink, your judgment is affected. That is not my opinion, that is fact. You should be able to exercise your rights to defend yourself uninfringed by anyone. But when you decide to impair yourself by using alcohol you are stepping on all around you, and you are providing the anti's valuable fodder to use against freedom lovers like ourselves. If you are armed with a deadly weapon, you are obligated to all of us to present yourself in the most prepared and stable manner possible. When you drink, you are not doing that.


I don't want to hjack this thread but I'll be brief:

Don't assume my judgment is affected. Your's may be, and that's fine, but don't ever tell me what affects me and how. It's not fact, and changes by the individual.

You then say I should be uninfringed.....BUT not while I'm impaired. This sounds like infringed now.

If I decide to impair myself, as I said before this is not an invitation to murder my family. Is that what you are saying? Really?

Give me a break on the antis, they will find anything and it doesn't matter to them that you are agreeing with them.

I only discuss this as the bill discussed by OP is dealing with this issue. Only recently did people start crying about drinking and shooting. Guess what, growing up you went out to the field looking for birds and sipping Whiskey to keep warm. You know what....NOTHING HAPPENED. You know why? Because I control me, not you. Let's keep it that way ok?

Orlando
March 28, 2010, 10:24 AM
Guns and alcohol dont mix, as far as I'm concerned it should be illegal to consume any alcohol if CCW. Yes I do drink, just never will while carrying.
Something to consider if you do get in a life or death situation and have to use deadly force, even if you are in "the right" I would not want to have to defend myself in court knowing I had consumed even one beer

Yo Mama
March 28, 2010, 11:34 AM
^ Good for you! So what you're really saying is alcohol and the right to self defense doesn't mix. You even took it a step further, and want it to be illegal. YOU WANT IT TO BE ILLEGAL TO DEFEND ONE"S SELF?!?!

Seriously? Court? No matter what in a shooting your going to be in court, drunk or not.

Back to reality: Where in the law does it state I can't be impaired to shoot someone who is trying to kill me? Give me law, not your opinion, as you referred to a concern about court.

The resteraunt bill aside, say I'm in my home and had a few. Are you trying to tell me someone kicks in my door and I should only lavish kind words onto them?

Let's all hug maybe?

Come on, get real.

Orlando
March 28, 2010, 11:39 AM
No not at all. What I'm saying that if you are going to drink and go out leave your handgun at home.
I have enough self control that I can go out to dinner and not drink. Staying safe is more important to me than a drink or two at dinner

Yo Mama
March 28, 2010, 12:19 PM
Hey Orlando, why didn't you answer my questions? I had a few for you including what the law states, and what I'm supposed to do with someone trying to kill me or my family.

When someone skirts around a hard question with an answer of their opinion they appear to have less validity and show no substance to your thoughts.

So come on. Give an answer to my questions first.

whalerman
March 28, 2010, 02:01 PM
Uh, YoMama, I can see where this is going. But we'll give it a try anyway.

Everyone's judgment is affected when one drinks alcohol. I do not understand how you can claim yours is not. Whenever that subject is mentioned, you run and hide behind some hypothetical where just because you're drinking you "don't agree to be mugged". That's strange thinking. None of us accepts the premise that you haven't the right to defend yourself at all times. But when you choose to drink, do drugs, or otherwise present yourself in less than the best possible condition you can, then YOU have decided that the safety of your family has become secondary.

I would question your priorties. If alcohol is that important to you, where you cannot sacrifice drinking in public places while armed for the security of yourself and your loved ones, then you have decisions to make. Don't run an hide behind a veil of "just because I'm drinking doesn't mean someone can mug me". If you were a cop, which I'm sure you're not, I wouldn't want you showing up to help me out. Sorry brother, but that's an attitude problem. I would respectfully urge you to rethink your position.

Yo Mama
March 28, 2010, 02:37 PM
Whalerman, I appreciate the input. I actually rarely drink outside of my home. To me it's not as much an issue of if I drink or not, but when someone tells me not to do something I have a reaction. :)

SharpsDressedMan
March 28, 2010, 04:27 PM
If one is in a restaurant or place that serves liquor, and has a legal CCW, and just can't resist the temptation to drink, then they might have a problem. I don't think it will be too much to ask, as a compromise, to refrain from alcohol consumption when armed while in a public place. I also think this should apply to police officers. Ohio law enforcement, are you listening? Whatever is good for one should be good for the other................

whalerman
March 28, 2010, 06:08 PM
That is exactly right, Sharpsman. It should apply, in my opinion, to anyone who is in a position to exercise deadly physical force.

Back to my new friend, Yo Man. I thank you for not getting too upset with me during our exchange. I assure you I never had or ever will have intent to tell you or others the parameters that should apply to them regarding self defense. I can see where my first post came off otherwise.

I enjoyed the exchange and thank you for your civility. That's what you usually get at a gun site. And that ties in to what I'm talking about. When we present ourselves as the best we can be, in public and in social exchange, we represent ourselves accordingly. I still think the US Army should have stuck with that slogan.

Be safe.

Yo Mama
March 28, 2010, 09:43 PM
No problem. Same here, love the discussion even if we disagree. That's why we hash it out. ;)

stickhauler
March 29, 2010, 12:18 AM
As a matter of fact, Ohio law says that a concealed carry holder cannot have a alcoholic beverage while carrying at all. The first sip makes places them under disability to carry.

rtroha
March 29, 2010, 09:49 AM
As to the current status of HB 203, two hearings were held but nothing has happened since January. The Democrat-controlled House is doing some serious foot dragging on this bill.

Meanwhile, another restaurant carry bill (SB 239) was introduced in the Ohio Senate just a few weeks ago and has already had one hearing. The Ohio FOP is has come out against this bill.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/03/bill_would_allow_guns_in_resta.html

Even if SB 239 gets passed by the Republican-controlled Senate, it will still be difficult to get it passed by the House.

jeepguy
April 1, 2010, 08:28 PM
i dont believe that guns & alcohol mix. but in ohio you are considered not impaired untill you go over .08% for driving, why dont they just keep it consistent. also what if you go out to eat at a restaurant that has a bar i secure my firearm in my car & go in eat & have 1 beer in 1.5 hours. i am ok to drive but in violation becuse i have a loaded firearm still secured in my car. what if you & your spouse take the kids to their aunts house, then go home for a romantic dinner with some wine. someone breakes in. guns & alcohol dont mix but would you defend you & your wife? seems like there is aways a grey area. good stuff to chew on though.

stickhauler
April 1, 2010, 11:29 PM
what if you & your spouse take the kids to their aunts house, then go home for a romantic dinner with some wine. someone breakes in. guns & alcohol dont mix but would you defend you & your wife? seems like there is aways a grey area. good stuff to chew on though.

I believe the police would look differently on alcohol use at your home in a self defense situation, unless you were so drunk you were falling all over yourself. Most couples who have a romantic dinner with wine in their home aren't drinking so much they're sloppy drunk.

jeepguy
April 2, 2010, 11:10 AM
i didnt think anyone was talking about getting hammerd just having a few not enough to go over the limet of .08% in ohio. if people are that impaired below .08% than we need to lower the percentege. i usualy have between 1 - 3 drinks when i go out. most of the time i just drink iced tea. i told a guy i used to work with that he was crazy for having target practice at his house after he would get drunk. i still say firearms & booze dont mix. the way the laws are now if you have one beer at hame 1.5 hours before leaving you would not be able to exercise your right to carry. this does not make sense to me.

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