[cbrgator]

My girlfriend is 5'1, like 100-110lbs. I want to get her an adequate pistol for self defense. She limp wrists my Glock 19 which results in a FTE nearly every shot. A Glock 19 is too big for her but that is just some info to consider when recommending me something. Thoughts?

[sm]

S&W 3913 Ladysmith for semi-auto

Colt Detective Special for wheel gun.

Have her shoot both of these and let her see what she thinks.

[Rob P.]

I second the 3913 for tiny hands.

Be warned that a revolver in .38 special has more felt recoil than 9mm. This means that the 9mm shoots "softer" in the hand.

Limp wristing can be overcome with practice and some weight exercises. Proper motivation is key.

[CWL]

How about something in .380? Perhaps a SIG, Walther or Kahr?

[The Lone Haranguer]

Try a Kahr K9 or P9.

[AKElroy]

+1 for the .38 snubby if she is not willing to try again with the G19. However; She CAN overcome the limp wristing on the Glock quickly; probably in ONE good practice session with the proper techique. Download proper Weaver stance (Grip high & tight, push with the right, pull with the left) and the jams will stop.

[Mags]

Desert Eagle 50 or a S&W 500 with a 6 inch barrel. Nothing is hotter than a lil woman with a big gun.
But seriously I think you need to let her handle the guns in a gunstore and possibly be able to shoot some at a range if they will let her to find the best fit.

[Tiomoid]

How about something in .380? Perhaps a SIG, Walther or Kahr?
I have thought about that a lot for my own girl, but after a lot of deliberation I've determined that there are enough high-cap, small, 9mm out there that it might be worthwhile trying her out on those.

[Quoheleth]

I just got done teaching two women to shoot. One had a Jiminez JA9 [shudder], one a Taurus PT111. Neither woman could shoot these smaller guns well. I gave them my Smith M&P9 to shoot. Both were shooting 70% bullseyes after just a few shots; all were in "center mass." One also enjoyed shooting my officer 1911 and my 6" GP100.

Point: take the young lady to a well-stocked gun store and let her handle as many guns as she can. What you/we think she can handle might be 180 degrees from what she likes.

Do NOT buy her the gun you *know* she needs. You don't buy her shoes, undergarments (;)) or fingernail polish. Don't do it with a gun, either.

She could be limp-wristing because it doesn't feel good. Let her try an M&P, XD, some mid-sized revolvers (Smith Model 10, Ruger SP101), and maybe even a 1911 or a CZ75 -- you (and she) may be pleasantly surprised!

Q

[bigfatdave]

Take her to a range with rentals and let her decide what features she likes.

[10-Ring]

How about a G19 22lr conversion kit to build muscle memory and work on technique -- then work back up to the defensive rounds??
What does she like?

[bigfatdave]

10-Ring makes a good point ... tossing her a full-power centerfire handgun and expecting her to master it in one range session isn't going to work.
Get her some .22 pistol practice (you DO have a .22 pistol to practice with, right?) before expecting her to make an informed decision on a defense gun ... THEN get her into your collection, your friend's collections, and the rental range to figure out what SHE wants in a defense handgun.

Remember, if you buy her something, and she doesn't practice with it, doesn't maintain it, and only accepts it to make you shut up ... it will do no good for defense.
Get her something that she enjoys shooting, and shoots well ... no matter how much you try to arm her with hardware, if the software isn't there you fail.

[gimlet1/21]

Set her up with a Kel-Tec .32, my wife is also a small lady, these will certainly discourage any unwanted Romeo's

[sm]

Quoheleth, and 10 Ring speak true

For the new folks:
Back when...
I assisted on some private ranges, we had a slew of guns.

Gun fit to shooter is that important.

New shooters, I/we started them out on .22 revolvers, then went to a Model 10
We kept a minimum of six Model 10s, just alike, except for stocks. We had other stocks, and it only took a second to change out. It was easier to have a dozen or so Model 10, or Model 64 (same gun, just stainless) with different stocks.


Then we went to .22 semi-auto, by this time, gun fit was something the new folks had picked up on. So we had different semi auto .22's.
Then transitioned to Single Action center fire, such as 1911 and BHP. Then went to other center fire semi autos.

Overwhelmingly, the .40 cal was hated, especially by ladies.

The BHP and 1911 were well received by ladies.
I used a 185 gr load in the 1911s to start out.
3913s were well received, and at the time, good used Police trade ins were easy to come by, and affordable.

Folks actually handled, and shot a variety of guns.
I did a lot with ladies.
These gals not only had a lot of guns to choose from, also holsters and other gear, they could try as well.

Fun stuff too.
Let the gals shoot a 9x23 Race Gun, and "brrrrrp!" and huge grins.
Some gals, that had the monies, did go to a 1911 style, Commander size 9x23 , with the gold bead front sight for CCW.

Budgets varied, and we assisted with those that had a need.

We had some "inexpensive" and "little lady needs this" type guns. It just made sense to be responsible to show ladies, and guys in their lives these guns were NOT what a lady needs.

i.e a Jennings.
Cute, small, but the ladies right off figured out, one could not hit with it.
I made more than one guy ( especially macho "experts") shoot one. I mean if they are such an expert as to what a ladies needs, they should be able to shoot with expertise a "little gun for a lady" - correct?

WE did a lot of things at these ranges, from new shooters, kids, elderly, physically limited, CCW, Armored car guards ( where I drew short straw - wait I did not get a straw- to assist with PGO shotguns).

No kidding, 105 handguns were on tables one morning, from .22 cal to on up, both revolvers and semi auto, in all sorts of calibers.
We had five ladies that had never touched , much less fired a handgun.
One of the ladies was 15 years old, 4'11 1/2 (don't forget the "1/2" *lol*) and I asked if she had to dance in the shower to get wet. *grin*

Her mom was not much bigger.

They were broke, bad life circumstances, and we after all the lessons and hands on stuff, they shot a Model 64 3" really well, and the snub nose Model 10.
We gave them a Model 10 snub nose. This fit CCW and home use.

Later, they could afford a 3913, the gun they both shot...I kid you not, like an extension of them.
On down the road, they bought a .22 revolver we come up with for a good price.


Folks have to actually shoot before they buy, ladies, or gents. Just I get really irked by guys, that think because they stand up to tinkle they are experts in guns, cars, and whatever else.

Ladies make the best students, they really do.

Over the decades, my experience and observation has been, five guns fit 90% of all hands.

1911
BHP
Colt DS
S&W K frame
S&W J frame

When the 39 series came out, that became the sixth gun.
Guns that fit hands, and folks can shoot well.

Being the old fart I am, I have not kept up, nor really care about some newer offerings, what TEEM SEEL is using this week or what LAPD SWAT is using and you can forget any guns in the latest video game.

[David E]

We often hear, "Let HER decide," while overlooking the fact that she probably doesn't know enough (at that point) to make an intelligent decision.

WE who are assisting these folks need to understand their needs and accommodate them, not push our requirements onto them if those requirements are not helpful to them.

To answer the question, the Kahr 9mm's would be possible choices, if they are not too much gun for her.

Often, the .380's kick more than a 9mm due to the straight blowback vs. locked breech.

Simple is better. A DAO Kahr or a .38 J-frame/ Colt DS (with proper grips and loads) should fit most folks with small hands.

I like the 3913, but would instead suggest the DAO version, the 3953 for the simplicity.

[onlymeself]

I'm not big woman, 5'4" 125 I like my XDM 9 over my hubby XD 9. Why? I can change out my backstraps to make the grip fit better. His XD is much harder to rack than my XDM. Mine has a little less kick than his, and it's more ergo as well. Just the nature movement of bringing his up I have to adjust back down. I don't have to do this with mine. It also doesn't pop up as much as his, not that his pops up a lot to begin with.
SA makes a fine weapon. Look up the torture test for the XD. Out of the thousand of rounds I've fired I've never had a jam, FTF or a stove pipe. And neither has hubby. My sons girl shoots his kimber 1911 45 acp and loves it.
Plus I read an article here recently about the kimber fitting woman's hands better. I think it's the seattle pd that is adopting them cuz the women LEO hands fit better.

[CCWB]

i'll echo it:
take her to a range with rentals

Bersa, XD, P32, a 380. The Glock dosen't fit small hands well.

Plus you have to factor in the concealment on her body. If she has it in a purse on on her small sounding frame.

Good luck, and by all means LET HER CHOOSE!

[Drail]

I thought Glocks were perfect? It jams? No way dude! Seriously let her try some medium size revolvers in .38/357. No magazines. No safeties. The final decision is hers as long as she understands what is important for a carry gun. (i.e. "this one has prettier grips" or "this one matches my shoes"..)

[Madcap_Magician]

The limp-wristing could be a result of lack of knowledge/training/experience combined with a pistol whose grip is too fat for her palm size.

[rcmodel]

Teach her how to hit you in the face with her fist, if she already doesn't know how. Most folks learn how to do that at a very young age.

The same technique & muscles used to punch you in the face without breaking her wrest is the same used to stop limp-wresting a handgun.

But with that said, if she can't shoot an auto, and has no will to learn how, then a small revolver is the best & safest gun for her.

rc

[searcher451]

Lots and lots of threds on this topic, which might help. But the bottom line: Don't select something for her, and don't let others on a gun forum select soemthing for her. Let her select a gun herself, one that she can handle and likes and that fits her hand and eye. Everything else is a waste of time and effort and, ultimately, money.

[Just One Shot]

cbrgator said: My girlfriend is 5'1, like 100-110lbs.

Maybe you should wait until she reaches puberty before getting her a handgun!
:neener:

Seriously, My wife is 5' nothing and she has shot both my full size 9mm Rugers over the years and I have no doubt she could handle either of my XD's if she was so inclined.

Take her to a range that rents handguns and let her try out a few different types and calibers, you may be surprised at what she can handle.

[JWF III]

My girlfriend is 5'1, like 100-110lbs.

I think it is impossible to give an answer to your question, without pics.:evil:

But to answer the question. Let her shoot as many handguns as possible, and let her decide.

Wyman

[christcorp]

If she isn't going to practice with the gun often; e.g. once a month or at least once every 2 months; then don't make ANY SEMI-AUTO pistol an option. Stay with a revolver. The revolver recommendations were good choices. Inexperienced shooter and those that don't practice and mainly have a gun for self defense, really need to stick with a revolver. So much less to go wrong, and so much less for the shooter to screw up. What good is a semi-auto 10-15 round pistol if it doesn't chamber when needed, she forgets to turn off the safety, can't remember how to handle that bad ejection, etc... A revolver as long as it's loaded is Point and Click. This is a very SIMPLE choice.

[indiandave]

If she is not going to conceal carry, have her look at K/L frame revolvers. J frame revolvers can kick like a mule. not a good idea. The big thing is to let her pick out what she is comfortable with.

[bestseller92]

Ruger 3" SP101 .357, loaded with +P .38s.

[psyopspec]

An investment of both your time at www.cornernedcat.com will pay huge dividends and make her gun buying and owning experience a lot more fun for both of you.

[remingtondude58]

what about a Patriot (http://www.charterfirearms.com/products/Charter_Crimson_Patriot_73204.html)

[reidry]

My wife recently became interested in shooting and CCW. I started by pulling everything out of the safe and taking her to the range. We shot everything from .22 up to .45. Later I took her to a couple of gun stores and really enjoyed annoying the help asking to see one of practically everything in the case. The next month we went to a local gun show - hoping to see a few items she hadn't seen before.

The decision was completely hers other than asking my advice on finishes and magazine / ammo availability. I let her get a feel for operating the slide, the trigger reach, handling the magazines, etc.

Our range trip included Single Action, Double Action, and Striker Fired Autos as well as revolvers. After the range trip she was pretty well set on a single action or striker fired automatic though she didn't like the weight of a steel 1911. After the gun store trips she was pretty sure about a Springfield XDm. When we went to the gun show she confirmed the XDm after handling some other odds and ends including High Powers, Sigs, a number of 1911s, Walthers (Vintage and New - I own a PPS), S&Ws, Taurus Autos, Kahr, CZs, HK, etc.

So she settled on a new Bitone (Stainless slide, black frame) XDm in 9mm.

My advice is let her choose and either take her to shoot the various pistols in your collection, your buddies' collections or go to a range that has a good rental selection.

Ryan

[David E]

As long as you can control which guns she shoots, letting her pick one is a fine idea.

The problem begins when she thinks the miniscule .25 is perfect because it's so darn cute.

An XD or XD-m are very viable choices.

[colorado_handgunner]

How about something in .380? Perhaps a SIG, Walther or Kahr?

Only if you don't want something she will not be able to shoot until sometime next year. I haven't been able to find .380 for my LCP for 4 months! :barf: Get her something with ammo you cab actually find. She won't become proficient if she can't practice.

[Ohio Gun Guy]

AP-7 in 32acp. / or a walther ppk/s in .32 acp

I gave one to my Grandmother for home defense after she had trouble with the guns she already owns. She likes the .32acp. Some people will say a .32 doesnt pack enough puch, I think it's adequate. European police forces used them!

[christcorp]

I'm not a small guy, but in the warmer months like now, I carry exclusively my Walther PPK 32auto or it's clone, the FEG AP-MBP also 32 auto. It is definitely a satisfactory round. Anyone who says it isn't, isn't realistic.

Having said that, I will reiterate a hundred more times; if she doesn't plan on shooting on a regular basis, and plans on using this gun for self/home defense; then DO NOT get her a semi-auto pistol. I don't care WHAT the make, model, or caliber. Find her a quality revolver. Let her pick it out. If she's into guns and wants to shoot often, then a semi-auto is fine. And you train with 2-3 dummy rounds in the magazine. And you fire and practice clearing dead rounds and all the other possible malfunctions. Both mechanical and human. I know a lot of people who have their semi-autos who's egos are talking instead of their brains. Some of these people WILL have a problem if they need the gun and something happens. They WON'T be able to think fast enough, they WILL panic, and they WILL get hurt or die. SCREW THAT!!!!! If she isn't going to shoot on a regular basis, DON'T let her get a semi-auto. Recommending such a thing is irresponsible.

[blitzen]

take a look at a Styer M9. Small grip and a nice trigger.

[krs]

It doesn't really matter what pistol - it matters how much she wants to shoot.

As long as you can control which guns she shoots, letting her pick one is a fine idea. The problem begins when she thinks the miniscule .25 is perfect because it's so darn cute.

What?

my Beretta .25 IS so cute and if you don't think so I'll get my Sig 220 out and prove it.

[BCRider]

While I agree with the others that suggest that learning the correct technique will cure the limp wrist issue I don't think this is the wise option. What is learned and practiced in the range will be soon forgotten in the heat of a situation.

The limp wristing suggests that she's afraid of the guns on some level so she isn't fully gripping them. The best way to deal with THAT issue is a topic of it's own.

In the meantime if she is truly wanting a pistol for self defense and not just to pander to your attention then I would let her shoot a bunch of options split more or less equally between both small and bigger semis and revovlers and see where the smile occurs. Your role in all of this should be to ONLY ensure she uses the appropriate grip in each case. If she is serious about getting a gun then it must be her decision.

I'm basing this on the fact that I've had a couple of girl friends over the years that tried my hobbys thinking, as it turned out later, that it was a way to reaching me rather than because they actually thought it was something they wanted to do. I'm not saying this is the situation in YOUR case but keep it in the back of your head just in case.

[gglass]

My wife had her pick of any handgun from the inventory of 3 different dealers. I can only say that she is a woman who wants what she wants, and this is what she wanted.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2507/channelandbullets.jpg

My wife absolutely loves her Bersa 380cc... I would not want to be the guy who tries to take it from her.;)

[golden]

My wife is petite and went through the same problem. I gave her a GLOCK 19, but she can no longer handle the recoil of the GLOCK or the gun weight of a K-frame S&W.

The small J-frame revolvers bring recoil back as a problem, so we settled on a WALTHER P-22. Power is not suffiecent, but she can a least operate it and likes it.

We are now trying to convert over to a BERETTA 84 in .380ACP. She loves the double action trigger which is very smooth and the 13 round magazine capacity and total reliability is a plus.

Jim

p.s.--------A BIG DOWNSIDE IS TRYING TO FIND .380 AMMO!

[cbrgator]

I don't want to waste her time with a .22. I want her to have something she can really rely on should she ever need to. A .22 for ccw would be, IMO, a false sense of security. Better than nothing... but not adequate.

[chieftain]

My youngest daughter at 21 stands 4'11" and weights in at about 100lbs. Tiny.

She has always preferred the full size or government model 1911 in 45acp of course.

So for her 21'st birthday last year, I got her a Colt Combat Elite. Set it up with an utra short Colt trigger, very thin Navidrex Grips, with appropriate thin grip bushings and screws. fitted a low extended Gunsite thumb safety.

Never forget the 1911's ability to be adapted to virtually anyones hand size or combination of dimensions.

She shoots the hell out of it. She had all my handguns to choose from. From small 'J' frame S&W to the 1911's. Glocks, SIG's, Kahr's, XDm's, Ruger's SR9, S&W M&P9, etc......

She wanted a Government model in 45acp. (She already has her 5.56 NATO carbine, set up with a red dot, of course)

Don't mess with Daddy's little girl.

Go figure.

Fred

Stupid should hurt

[KBintheSLC]

My wife loves her Kel Tec P32... sure its not the best caliber, but it does work. I prefer she have the P32 on her body than her 9mm in a purse. She is 5"2" and 105 lbs. and the P32 is about the only thing she can carry on her person. We have 2 of these guns... I have one too... and neither have ever had a single failure.

[mljdeckard]

Remember that smaller guns are not easier to shoot. They have less weight, which means MORE felt recoil, and a shorter sight radius, which makes them more difficult to aim. Now, understanding that I wasn't there, I'm going to suggest that if she is limp-wristing a G-19, She needs to practice her grip. I am currently dealing with the same situation with my mother, who decided to be interested suddenly. She was shooting a borrowed Mk II with a bull-barrel, and getting FTEs.

I told my dad, "NO, we are NOT going to get her a .22 to carry, we are going to get a medium-framed 9mm or .357 loaded with .38s until she gets her technique better."

Even though I have never experienced it personally, I have heard that Glocks are more likely to malfunction from limp-wristing. I would recommend trying some other medium-frame autos in 9mm to see if they work better for her.

[BCRider]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the limp wrist issue is related to not holding enough push-pull tension in the overlapping hands. Be it a semi or revolver or light or heavy a proper level of the isometric tension is something any shooter needs to learn. It not only helps avoid this limp wrist related troubles but it steadys the aim so the shooter can manage tighter groups.

[cbrgator]

We definitely need to work on her form no matter what, there is no doubt. But the G19 is too big for her anyway. She needs something small she can keep in her purse. Maybe an XD9sc or a Sig P229? What do you think.

[mljdeckard]

If it was ME, I would have her get a bigger purse. Make the accessories and lifestyle fit the right gun. Not the other way around.

[Jed Carter]

Ruger SP101, she needs a revolver not a pistol IMHO.

[The Wiry Irishman]

A friend of mine bought a STI Trojan a year or so back, loves it, but found she can't possibly conceal it on her person and doesn't like the idea of off-body carry. She was bored one day and started wandering around gun stores and stumbled across a Bersa Thunder .380 and just fell in love. Fit her hand great, she could easily rack the slide (something she could not do with my PPK), and she could conceal it in a variety of different ways.

We took it out to the range and I'll tell you what, that gun sure is ugly, and its got a few tool marks, but boy is it a sweet shooter. The only .380 available was my warmish handloads, and even with those it did not feel like a blowback gun. I love my PPK, but she's a harsh mistress and will beat up on you a bit, even though she's heavy. Its been a while since I've shot a 9mm, but the Bersa felt like one of the softest shooting centerfires I've used. Accurate, too, and very decent trigger, especially in double action. I didn't shoot it for groups, but just pulling the trigger as fast as I could recover from recoil I was still putting everything within 4-5 inches at 50 feet. She doesn't get as much pistol practice as I do, but she was still able to easily hold minute-of-face at the same distance. Ergonomics were excellent for both her itty-bitty hands and my large ones.

So that's another option to have her look at. Getting something she wants and picks out is key, though - it won't get shot if its not comfortable or she doesn't like it.

[bigfatdave]

I don't want to waste her time with a .22.
I hear a lot of people talk about "not wasting time with a .22" ... most of those people can't shoot a pistol very well.
The .22 isn't for carry, it is to learn the fundamentals without developing a flinch. If she is causing a Glock to malfunction, she is already ingraining bad habits and poor technique. You can't solve the self-defense puzzle with hardware only, you need to get the right software and a .22 is the way to install it.

<sarcasm>Or just keep sticking the Glock in her hands and making her feel like an idiot, I'm sure that will empower her and get her confident in handgun self-defense.</sarcasm>

Get her shooting something she likes for practice, and then worry about a SD/HD/CCW handgun. It doesn't matter how awesome and perfect the handgun you pick is if she never practices with it.

[punkndisorderly]

If she wants to really spend the time to learn how to shoot, as opposed to pointing it in the general direction of the target and pulling the trigger, any quality gun that fits her hands will work. She just needs some professional instruction and the desire to learn. Get her some professional instruction and some trigger time with as many firearms as possible. Then let her make her own choice.

I'd recommend getting a pistol for which a .22 conversion unit is available or a revolver for which a similar one can be purchased in .22lr. A .22 is inexpensive enough to shoot that even an entire day at the range won't break the bank. The only thing missing is the recoil and blast. It's a great way to work on shooting fundaamentals.

If she doesn't really want to learn, get her a .38 airweight snubby and pray she never needs to use it.

As far as purse carry, its better than leaving it on the nightstand, but not by much. It's really not a great choice. All that needs to happen to be disarmed is to snatch the purse. Further, while on body carry means the firarm is always secure, with a purse the firearm is secure only as long as it's within her control and she's paying attention. I know of an instance where a toddler shot themselves with the mothers revolver at the grocery store. She was right there, but wasn't paying attention. Further, many women have the dreaded "bag of death" full of so much crap that the firearm is likely to be at the bottom of the bag under tons of junk, tangled up, and full of lint and debris.

[xstuntman]

My 9yr old daughter shot my J frame with big rubber grips and liked it using 130 grain white box semi wads. I don't think your girlfriend would consider it to much recoil with standard loads. X