Tell me more about the .405Win...


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Maverick223
June 2, 2009, 10:05 PM
My search for the ideal rifle has come up short...so now I am thinking of getting (down the road) a Winchester 1895 chambered in .405WCF. The cartridges for this beast cost a small fortune so reloading is mandatory, can I use .41Magnum pistol bullets for cheap practice and NA game hunting rounds or what would be the best option for ammo? Also, what is the power and recoil of this cartridge? Will it hang in there with the .416 Rigby and the like or be relegated to domestic game? If so I imagine recoil is similar to the .416 and much less than the venerable .458Lott (in a CZ 550 Safari) that I was also considering.

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dbublitz
June 2, 2009, 10:11 PM
I have the .405 in a Ruger #1 Tropical and it is a pleasure to shoot. More of a big push vs. sharp recoil. I shot my deer with it this year, and the big benefit I saw was the deer was pretty well guted by the time I reached it! By the way, reloading is a must.

alemonkey
June 2, 2009, 10:12 PM
T.R. used it for dangerous game. But he was a lot manlier than any of us. :D

Maverick223
June 2, 2009, 10:19 PM
What bullets do you reload with? Have you shot any other African game rounds (or other domestic cartridges) that are comparable to the .405? I didn't find the .416Rigby all that bad, the .458WM wasn't all that much fun, so I don't think the extra case capacity of the Lott would help any.

Maverick223
June 2, 2009, 10:57 PM
After a bit more research it seems the ye olde lion medicine is scarcely better than a decent 45-70, so things are not looking good for the .405WCF. Looks like a .458 will be in the future, and the 1895 scratched off of the list. Shame, as I liked the action of the 1895, but there are no cartridges to my liking for the gun.

EDIT to add: Thanks for the replies!

schlockinz
June 2, 2009, 11:38 PM
Whats wrong with the 45-70?

Maverick223
June 2, 2009, 11:52 PM
Whats wrong with the 45-70?Nothing I love my 45-70...I just don't see having another round that performs nearly identically (that isn't actually the same) and costs a great deal more. I already have a 45-70 what I want is something that will grossly outperform the 45-70...like a .416 Rigby or larger. I will likely be getting a .458Lott in a CZ 550 American Safari (Field Grade cause it will be shot) for the extra punch that I really don't need, but really do want. I can always download for the times when I need a close quarter combat squirrel sniper rifle. :D

rangerruck
June 3, 2009, 12:44 AM
which all makes me wonder, as I normally like super small , hyper fast bullets...
is there a load out there, that is 338 or bigger, that is factory loaded, and at a price that does not empty your wallet? I am kinda thinking i may need a big fat round. 45/70 does sound interesting, as does a 50 bushmaster, or a 458 socom, and of course there is allways a 375 h/h. but i really do not know any cost
of any of these rounds.

Maverick223
June 3, 2009, 12:51 AM
I am somewhat like you, part of me likes the little screamers, but I have another side that likes the monster thumpers. 45-70 is reasonable, paid $30.00USD for my last box of Hornady LeveRevelution. I don't know the going rate for the large bore AR rounds, but .375H&H is pretty steep (around $60/20rds). 45-70 is a great round to handload for (though I have yet to start) because you can easily cast your own boolits and tailor the load to the game.

Reid73
June 3, 2009, 09:31 AM
Winchester Repeating Arms offers the 1895 in .405 Win, as a special TR commemorative edition (http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=151&cat=014C).

It would seem to me that there would be an extremely limited market for such things, but apparently not.

Maverick223
June 3, 2009, 11:11 AM
It would seem to me that there would be an extremely limited market for such things, but apparently not.Gawd no...not that, they make a take-down version that is built to be used, that is the rifle that I was considering. I would have a real hard time buying any custome grade gun because I don't buy a gun to look at. :)

Reid73
June 3, 2009, 11:34 AM
I would have a real hard time buying any custome grade gun because I don't buy a gun to look at.Me too. I should have been clearer: I meant fancy "commemorative issue" firearms, not the 1895 standard grade take-down (http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=127&cat=014C&cattype=534127) (although there is probably quite a limited market for them as well).

Honestly I don't know who buys commemoratives (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_n3_v35/ai_8330124/). I don't mean to sneer at those who choose to spend their cash on such items (it's a free country), but can there really be many people who want guns that are too fancy to use and can never be fired lest they lose their 'collector value'?

IIRC, Winchester is making 1,500 of the TR 'Medicine Gun' commemoratives: that's quite a lot.

Maverick223
June 3, 2009, 11:43 AM
I agree, I could never see myself getting something that is designed not to be shot, I just don't see the point, just buy a painting. I somewhat regret buying my Browning 1885 because the blue and fancy wood makes it look too good to hunt with, but I still shoot it and will continue to do so.

Here is a link to the rifle I was considering...http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=127&cat=014C...it is a non-cataloged limited production gun, and the price was a bit steep anyway, I just fell in love with that action.

Reid73
June 3, 2009, 12:30 PM
I wouldn't say that the 1895 takedown is my idea of "the ideal rifle" (among other things, it can't really be scoped), but of course that is a subjective decision.

If it meets your criteria, I would suggest getting one sooner rather than later. Perhaps they will be available for many years to come, but it would be imprudent to count on it.

Of course, you'll definitely need to replace the horrible 'buckhorn' rear sight with a proper aperture sight (http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,1755.html).

Will it hang in there with the .416 Rigby and the like or be relegated to domestic game?Honestly these cartridges are not in the same category. While the .405 can be hopped up a bit over its original factory loading, I certainly wouldn't do so for use in an 1895 action.

db_tanker
June 3, 2009, 01:25 PM
why keep yourself on a mag length action?

go with a 416 Taylor and do some serious thumping.


400 gr Speer getting pushed at 2400 fps with a dose of RL-15.

a bit over 5100 ft lbs at the muzzle.


its fun :)


D

Maverick223
June 3, 2009, 04:29 PM
Honestly these cartridges are not in the same category. While the .405 can be hopped up a bit over its original factory loading, I certainly wouldn't do so for use in an 1895 action.That is what I have come to discover, and I have subsequently decided to go with another platform.
why keep yourself on a mag length action?

go with a 416 Taylor and do some serious thumping. To be honest I have never heard of it, and that doesn't sit well with me as I prefer something that I can get factory loads for it (even though I plan to reload, components are more available for factory cartridges). I will look into it, but I currently leaning towards a .458Lott or a .416Rigby (neither in the immediate future).

Thanks for the replies guys. :)

Reid73
June 3, 2009, 04:46 PM
Probably a wise choice.

.416 Rigby is almost never a bad bet, but if you're still keen on a lever action for Africa game shooting you might want to consider the Marlin 1895 and Randy Garrett's Hammerheads. As you probably know, Vince Lupo (http://www.vincelupo.com/) has used that combination to hunt all of the 'Big Five', and many plains game as well. See here (http://www.brockmansrifles.com/hunt_results.asp) for photos.

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