[Newton]

I have a P-3AT which is still working its way towards satisfactory reliability.

The first round out of the mag is still a 60/40 bet as to whether it will feed or not, things are pretty much 100% from there on in. Seems like the slide just doesn't have the oomph to move a round held firmly against the mag lips by the compressed spring, as soon as the round touches the feed ramp, it sticks. Trying to shoot a truncated round like the Federal Hydrashok is a complete waste of time, for me at least.

I have heard that Kel-Tec is offering free upgrades to early models (serial numbers unknown) to improve reliability, perhaps mine is one of these, but I'll persevere for a while, before shipping it.

I think that there may be enough of these little .380s out there to justify a reliability poll so I've posted 4 choices, 100% reliable, mostly reliable, rarely reliable, and jams on every mag. Let's see what shakes loose.

PS - To standardize responses I'll add that seeing how the P-3AT is designed for last ditch personal defence, the benchmark ammunition for your response should be any mainstream hollowpoint, not FMJ.

[ranger7]

Quote-
PS - To standardize responses I'll add that seeing how the P-3AT is designed for last ditch personal defence, the benchmark ammunition for your response should be any mainstream hollowpoint, not FMJ. - Unquote

Newton,

I own two P-3ATs and have been in close contact with quite a few other owners. A sizable portion of these owners feel that in order to get sufficient penetration, FMJs may be the preferred personal defense round for a short barrelled .380 ACP like the P-3AT.

You can have any kind of benchmark for your survey you want. I'm not really trying to argue one side of this issue or the other. Just saying you may be eliminating a very large portion of your owners by insisting on limiting experience to HPs.

Personally, I'm pretty satisfied that my P-3ATs are reliable with FMJs. So far, I've shot almost all FMJs as I'm still in kind of a break-in period. I've had some problems that I think are corrected but haven't gotten around to reliability testing with HPs yet. I haven't made a final decision on what my ultimate carry round will be. For now I'm carrying FMJs.

Alan

[Newton]

FMJs as a benchmark would work too, we just need to agree on a common standard.

[Bren]

I thought I'd never buy a Kel-tec but then I saw the 380 and got it for under $200 and figured "what the heck".

Mine (#6XXX) has been totally reliable with HP's and ball.

the feed ramp needs a light polish for smoother feeding and theres a few annoying things about the gun but all in all, it makes for a good little back up.

The OSS on ball isn't very good in any 380 so you can throw that in the argument too. I use Cor-Bon myself and leave the heavy work for the gun I would pull first (a real gun).

My 3AT has it's place as a last ditch back up only and is perfect for the job. Bren

[Kor]

Well, my P3AT jammed on ONE PMC Starfire after firing 100rds of FMJ, so one malf in 126rds technically equals one jam every 60rds... I guess I'm scheduled for a jam on the first round the next time I shoot this gun, then. :rolleyes:

Honestly, though, I feel that my gun's reliability is actually a lot closer to 100% - but honesty still compels me to admit that ONE jam. I've also tested the gun with Federal Hydra-Shoks, and they functioned the gun perfectly.

BamBam posted on an earlier thread that P3AT's with a serial # after 2,000 or with a letter-prefix-# have all the current-generation upgrades; since mine is a 3XXX gun, I guess I'm in like Flint. :D

Edit - I just took the P3AT to the range again this afternoon, and I had 1 fail-to-extract and 1 fail-to-eject with Remington 95gr FMJ - I guess I jinxed myself. :( I'll have to try it again with the ammo I used the first time that worked so well, to make sure that the problem lies with the Remington ammo, not the gun.

[mini14jac]

I'm over 300 rounds in mine.
Shooting American made ammo, in fmj, and jhp, (frequently mixed in one mag) I've had no jams.

The gun did not like some corroded surplus Dynamit Nobel "jacketed soft point" ammo. It would jam almost every shot.

When I stay with PMC, UMC, Winchester, or Federal, she's 100%

Newton,
Are you saying your gun jams when you try to chamber the first round, or when firing the first round?

If it jams while chambering a round try this:
While pulling the slide quickly back with the left hand, shove the pistol away from you with your right hand.
Many people try to hold an auto still in the right hand and let the left hand do all of the work.
That is the hard way to do it.

Hope this helps.

[USGuns]

Based on all the negative posts you see here and elsewhere about the P3AT reliability, this poll's results are surprising. Is the P3AT getting a bum rap by a few owners with problematic guns or are there just not enough of them out there for accurate poll results?

[CZ-100]

As of this past weekend, I have over 500 rds thru my P-3AT. SN 11xx

I had a few FTL on my first outting, with only the JHP.

I have had NO problems with FMJ, and that is what I carry in it. (95gr Winchester)

It has been 100% reliable since the first trip to the range. :neener:

[alamo]

I have a 27XX. Have only shot it once so far. 50 rounds of PMC FMJ followed 20 rounds of Federal Hydra-Shok. I had 3 failures which I attribute to a new/stiff magazine spring.

All 3 failures occured on the first shot with the magazine loaded with all 6 rounds. The slide locked back and it appeared that the spent casing was was being blocked from extracting by the nose of the bullet in the magazine. I tried 5+1 and it worked fine every time (3 times). With 6+1, it worked 4/7 times. Again, the only hitch was on the very first shot.

I typically keep magazines downloaded by 1 to lessen the stress on the magazine springs. I also got a ruler and worked the spring up & down a little bit to loosen it up. I expect it will work fine next outing.

Very pleased with my purchase & will get another one in a few months.

[concerned citizen]

Mine has also been 100%

about 500 rds through it.

[Coot]

Just picked up a P3AT today, # 0009XX (no letter prefix). The pistol's brand new, but with the earlier #, must have been sitting in the store for a while.

Have there been any changes since this early production gun that I should be aware of?

Haven't shot it yet, so can't comment on it's reliability.

[aeroscout]

I saw on Kel Tecs sight that this pistol comes in hard chrome but haven't seen any for sale anywhere. Are they out yet and would there be much too gain by getting one in hard chrome?

[cidirkona]

Being interested in the P-3AT enough that I think I might trade in Ye Old Reliable (1911 compact) for the little .380 and a CCW - I've read quite a few posts on the pack-of-smokes .380. One owner bought his p3at and sent the slide back to keltec with $20 to get it hardcromed.

How hard is it to carry a p-3AT and NOT conceal? I won't actually have my CCW permit in hand for three weeks or so.

-Colin

[alamo]

aeroscout,

hardchrome is not supposed to be available till sometime after the first of the year. Advantage to hard chrome is great rust resistance than blue.
If you get the blue now, you can send the slide & barrel to KT when the chrome is available and they will swap those parts for chrome parts for $20. Heckuva deal.

[mtnbkr]

How hard is it to carry a p-3AT and NOT conceal?

Fobus makes a paddle holster for the P32. As long as your shirttail or jacket doesn't cover it, you're not concealed. Dunno if it'll fit the P3AT though.

Chris

[cidirkona]

There are only miniscule differences between the 32 and 380 though, right? I would think it would fit... is that something they'd carry at most local shops?

-Colin

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Fail to feed in the wife's poodle gun with rusiian cheap ammo (silver bear?). We shot the 100 rounds of russian and vowed never again. Using actual "ammunition," real american stuff, no problems at 500 rounds.

Conclusion: It was not the P3AT, it was the cheap ammo.

Findings: Bad rap due to whiners, or good news to the lucky?

[mtnbkr]

There are only miniscule differences between the 32 and 380 though, right? I would think it would fit... is that something they'd carry at most local shops?

There's enough of a difference that some holster makers make a separate model. I've heard, but not confirmed, that rigid holsters like Fobus, are an exact fit.

As for local shops carrying, I dunno. I don't like Fobus holsters, so I rarely give them a second look. I was mainly surprised that a non-pocket or non-ankle holster existed for the P32.

Chris

[Mr Jody Hudson]

I have two and my son has one. The Russian did not work at all in either on of mine. The Dynamit Nobel worked perfectly well in both of mine but not in my son's. FMJ is probably the sensible choice as .380 in such a short tube either expands too much and doesn't penetrate enough or fails to expand and acts like fmj (see ammolab.com).

I am using some hot Spanish surplus stuff in semijacketed hp as well as several kinds of fmj and hp. The Speer, Lawman, GDHP works very well too.

I am running about 1 messup out of 100-200 but I voted for the 1-60 instead of perfection. In fmj mine are both very close to perfection. I will most likely get some +P fmj from someplace as my usual load once I find a place to purchase a few cases. I have ordered my third one now.

[pistolero]

50 rounds blazer, had extraction problems. P3AT not broke in? 50 rounds PMC? no problems. P3AT does not like blazer? 50 rounds REM UMC, failure to feed, P3AT getting dirty? 20 rounds PMC Starfire, not 1 hangup. All of this was over 3 range sessions without the P3AT being cleaned. Hopefully next week I will clean the gun, run 1 more box of REM UMC and 13 rounds of PMC Starfire through it. If there is not 1 single hangup, then it will replace my P-32. I think that I ordered some Cor-Bon in .380 from an FFL buddy of mine, I will run that through it if I pick it up between now and then. If it chokes on the Cor-Bon, i don't know what the 2nd best choice would be, maybe Gold Dots.

[cidirkona]

Hey Mr. Jody... you wouldn't feel like selling one of those... would'ja? ;)

-Colin

[W Turner]

Bought one about 3-4 weeks ago and have only put about 75 rounds thru it. No feeding extraction problems to speak of, but did have one light strike. I was shooting a combination of Gerogia Arms' Shear Power Plus and their FMJ ammo.

Mino

[mtnbkr]

You know, this is the second time in less than a week that I've read of a light strike and GA Arms ammo. My dad bought some GA Arms ammo for his 38special and had several light strikes or failures to fire. The same gun is 100% with all other makes of ammo.

I'm starting to wonder if it's that one maker...

Chris

[Caliburn]

My 3AT feeds ok, but has trouble extracting. It was really bad the first time to the range, 1-2 malfs per mag. It's gotten better on a couple subsequent trips, but still has the problem maybe onve every second or third mag. Anyone have suggestions, other than keep breaking it in? That will happen regardless.
:)

[ranger7]

Caliburn wrote:
"FTE
My 3AT feeds ok, but has trouble extracting. It was really bad the first time to the range, 1-2 malfs per mag. It's gotten better on a couple subsequent trips, but still has the problem maybe onve every second or third mag. Anyone have suggestions, other than keep breaking it in? That will happen regardless. "

Polish the chamber and/or call Kel Tec (800-515-9983) and ask them to send you a new extractor and extractor spring. (The parts will probably be sent to you free of charge.)

Alan

[Mr Jody Hudson]

Have not received my third AT yet, got one back from Keltec and it is SWEET, they replaced almost everything and free of course... kept the same serial number and that's about all.

Man, I LOVE the Dynamit Nobel in both of mine now, I love the Spanish Surplus stuff and most of all I love the Speer-Lawman GDHP for serious bizness. I have also shot a lot of fmj from most everywhere. ONLY the Russian fmj is eliminated from my Keltec feeding list. The Rusky is reserved for my Commie .380s now.

I will, most likely, get a few more, decide which ammo and pistol and accuracy combinations I like the best and keep at least two of them. In any pistol of any make or cost, I've found that to get the one I like the best with the ammo I like the best, it takes having several and selling what is less than my favorites. Plus, it's fun and keeps a lot of pistols in the gun cases of my dealers, on consignment! :rolleyes:

[Rebeldon]

I just bought one, and I wasted 100 rounds through it without a jamb.

[cidirkona]

How often did you dry fire a non-exsistant round due to the non-exsistance of a slide lock?

-Colin

[ranger7]

"How often did you dry fire a non-exsistant round due to the non-exsistance of a slide lock?

-Colin"

Not every mag but very often.

Alan

[cidirkona]

How many times did you put in a new mag only to find one still in the chamber?

-Colin

[ranger7]

"How many times did you put in a new mag only to find one still in the chamber?

-Colin"

A few times (3-5) out of 100+ mags.

Alan

[M2 Carbine]

Over 400 rounds of reloads, MagTech FMJ, MagTech +P HP, Cor Bon +P and S&B FMJ.

Cor Bon or Magtech Gardian Gold for carry.

It's my every day carry gun out of dozens of guns I could carry.
Enough said.
Of course it's a backup to a Kimber when I'm dressed for the 45.

It is an early production gun and some of the retaining pins were not undercut enough Kel Tec said, when I called about mine backing out. KT sent me a new one and a spare.


BTW MagTech Guardian Gold +P is a sleeper. It preforms very well in that short barrel. Good expansion and power. It is the cheapest +P I've found.

[M2 Carbine]

"How many times did you put in a new mag only to find one still in the chamber?

-Colin"


Count your rounds.
It's a good habit whether the slide locks back or not.

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

I agree and I am glad to hear others respond. It caught me a couple of times that way. I was unsure whether it was ME or the Kel-Tec. Any ideas why it FTFs on the last round? Or is it me?

[Wolfy]

Jams every 2-3 rounds would be thrilled to make it through ONE mag without a jam. Worst gun I have ever bought.

Only gun I would give freely to the shredder.

[pinetree64]

I'm glad I kept my P-32, it's been 100% even without a fluff & buff.

tjg

[wally]

Mine won't work with steel cased ammo (Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Barnual) but has had no problems with any brass cased ammo and I've tried most.

Poll needs a few other options:

100% out of the box

100% after repair

Still a POS after return.


Mine was 100% out of the box until the assembly pin walked out while shooting without my noticing it. Gun quickly destroyed itself by boogering up the frame but it continued to function as long as the pin was in enough to hold the barrel lug. Been 100% after repair. Kel-Teck has modified the design of the pins.

--wally.

[Drakejake]

100% reliable without a single jam. My P-32 was almost as reliable. I had the most problems with the P-11 and Kel-Tec replaced the barrel and recoil spring. After months of use, it became reliable and never jams at present.

Drakejake

[flatrock]

Mine jammed some on the first 100 rounds. After it got broken in, and I learned to shoot it better, it's been 100% reliable.

[Dave R]

I said 100%. My P-3AT had a few FTE's with Silver Bear (Russian steel-cased ammo), but I don't hold that against it.

It has been 100% with any brass ammo. I shoot mostly reloads through it now, and have not had a jam.

[denfoote]

Mine WAS working just fine, until I stupidly tried to fire off some Wolf.
A case became jammed in the chamber after somewhat successfully discharging 8 rounds. Now, I get brass in my face and the assembly pin wants to come out all the time!!! :banghead:

[Wilson 17&26]

Denfoote, the ejector may have been messed up by the steel case ammo. Call 1-800-515-9983 with your sad story. Chances are they will send you a new ejector and assembly pin free. You may find a better grade of grease and a pinkie extension help with the head shots.

If you fired the P-3AT several times with the assembly pin partially out you may need the frame replaced. Check to see if the hole where the end of the Assembly Pin sits has been wallowed-out or if it still has a crisp edge. Kel-Tec will fix that free also but you will need to return the pistol.

Wilson

[FunYet]

This is without a doubt THE LAST Kel-Tec I will own. Mine is still not reliable. Head-plinking brass and a magazine that flies apart. Bummer. 3 weeks after I emailed their customer support I got a 1-line response suggesting I mail them the gun. Interestingly enough, this was 2 weeks after I'd sent them the gun. It's my own fault. I've had poor experiences with every one of my Kel-Tecs, yet I continue to try "just one more" in the hope of becoming one of the lucky. I like the "idea" of the Kel-Tec. It fills a definite niche. I just can’t understand why they can’t get it right. And by the way, I don’t buy the rational that I should expect less just because it does not cost $500.

[Lennyjoe]

Got 250 rounds thru it so far without a hitch.

By the way, where can I get a pinky addition for the Magazine?

[Craig M. Arnold]

I have put 750 rounds through my P3AT and it has been flawless.

[dsk]

I still say it, if only Kel-tec would improve the construction and materials on these things (even if they have to up the price another $50 or so) they'd have ome real hum-dingers on their hands. As it is, they seem to be so borderline that only a certain percentage of us have received guns reliable enough for the job they were built for. Any malfunction rate worse than 1 out of 500 is too poor for a self-defense gun. So far my P-32 has been reliable, but I also have less than 500 rounds through it so I really can't say for a fact.

[kokapelli]

Lennyjoe:
Everything you ever wanted to know about "pinky addition" for your P-3AT magazine can be found _RIGHT HERE_ (http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/p3at-fingerrest.htm)

[Wilson 17&26]

As a consumer, I would be opposed to increasing the price by $50 per pistol to improve quality. I have purchased two P-3ATs and would have hated to spend an extra $100.

My initial P-3AT (#001XX), purchased May of last year, was among the first 100 pistols made available to the public. I did replace the assembly pin after it walked out. I know to Clean and Lub Kel-Tec mouseguns every 50 rounds or so but I didn’t. I continuously fired 100 rounds of S&B followed by 13 rounds of Cor-Bon, so I shouldn’t have been surprised. Kel-Tec sent me a new pin and spring no questions ask. That was my one and only jam in over 600 rounds through this pistol, although I did have to duck brass during the break-in period. It healed it’s self after 200 rounds.

In August of last year, prices of P-3ATs had dropped to $219 so I purchased my second P-3AT (#0026XX). I never had a failure or brass-to-the-head while firing more than 500 rounds. Last month I spent $9 (UPS ground) shipping this pistol and a $20 money order to Kel-Tec for a hard chrome exchange (a great bargain considering they sell HC slide for $90 and thc HC barrel for $110). Kel-Tec Air Expressed (that had to eat up most of the $20) it back 27 days later. They didn’t just replace the slide and barrel, they stamped a new Hard Chrome P-3AT with my old serial number. I have fired more than 200 rounds through this new P-3AT with out a hic-cup.

Kel-Tec has produced more that 40,000 P-3ATs in the last 12 months. Although all are test fired there will always be a small percentage of lemons slip through. While that is regrettable, Kel-Tec has a lifetime warranty and will reimburse up to $20 of the customers shipping, upon request. I doubt there is anyplace in the continental US that exceeds $20 for ground shipping to Florida (no, it’s not a federal crime to ship ground and no you don’t have to inform the carrier in writing that the package contains a handgun, see GCA 1968).

All for now as my right index finger has grown weary.
Wilson

[Rebeldon]

I just sold my Kel-Tec P3AT. Then I bought a S&W 642 Airweight, .38 Special. The S&W is my new carry gun.

I was satisfied with my Kel-Tec, but I just wanted something different. Now I have two S&Ws (22A & 642).

[Brasso]

I voted 100%, but that really isn't fair as I only shot 6 rounds thru the thing when I first bought it. But they all fired without a hitch. American Eagle 95gr fmj. Personally I don't think that little gun should be carried with hollowpoints. With a gun and caliber combination that small it's "bark really is worse than it's bite" and I hope I never really have to put it to the test. But, it beats a rock. A small rock anyway. And sometimes, especially in the summer, it's about all you can conceal.

[denfoote]

Jamming is not my problem!
In fact it works almost to well!!
The assembly pin kept backing out from the recoil.
Kel-Tec is sending me on of the upgraded pins free of charge!!

That's customer service!!!!! :D

[Bob79]

So it looks like 14% of the time you're very likely to have a problem, and then 23% of the time 1 failure in 60 rounds. I suppose 1 in 60 isn't too bad, but I wouldn't consider it good either.

Adding those its a 37% chance it may fail to fire, 1/3 of the time doesn't sound that good. But then again 2/3 of the pistols work fine w/o a hitch. It would be interesting to see what percentage of the pistols that fired poorly haven't had the extra attention (fluff n' buff, etc), and also what percentage of the ones that fired well did have the extra attention.

With all the posts here and other sites about the extra time that goes into them I'm betting that 1/3 to 1/2 of the guns that fired well had that extra tweaking done to them. So I guess for the money you save on these Kel-Tecs you have to put some work into them.

More $$$ and less work VS. less $$$ more work. To me its just not worth the extra time and money with having to "fix er' up", it makes me lose trust in the gun.;)

[Lightspeed]

Bob79,
Just keep the pistol clean, lubed, and hold it properly.
What's your - er, the problem?

[Mr Jody Hudson]

However...... the options are far larger, far more expensive, far heavier, and with the exception of the 9mm Rohrbaugh... not that much more reliable.

However, for $1,000 or perhaps less, you can have a Rohrbaugh, not much heavier and almost identical size; with no fluff and buff as it's already perfect.

:D

[Rick Blaine]

Over 300 rounds with no problems. For me it's not about money, it's light weight and concealability. Great pistol. Rick

[telewinz]

I already owned a P11 and love it but I wanted to wait until the .380 dropped in price and got mine at a gunshow new for $219 but more often than not I see them still going for around $249 here. The H prefix serial numbers have ALL the bugs out of them but with Keltec's customer service if I ever had a problem I would not worry. I shoot 102 grain lead reloads and its fired 100%, I would trust my life with it. What better recomendation can be made?. For me it's not about money, it's light weight and concealability. Great pistol. Rick
Amen.

[Wilson 17&26]

Some of the non-H serial numbers are also new pistols. My second P-3AT (#0026XX) was sent in for the $20 hard chrome exchange (I always spend $9 and send the whole pistol so it can be test fired). Instead of replacing selected parts they stamped my old serial number on a new hard chrome P-3AT. Kel-Tec has done this on many HC exchanges where the assembled pistol was sent to them. It is likely cheaper than dissembling and reassembling the old P-3AT.

For those that don’t know, Kel-Tec doesn’t hard chrome any old parts. They install new slides and barrels with the old ones going in the recycle bin.

[Lennyjoe]

Ok, you guys got me talked into it.

As soon as I get home I am gonna send the little bugger in for hard chroming. Just the slide and barrel right?

By the way, got another hundred rounds to shoot thru it tomorrow. That will make the count up to 600 since I have had it.

[denfoote]

I'm about to find out!!
Kel-Tec has sent me another assembly pin and I will install it and take it to the range next week!!
I'll let you know!!! :D

[Wilson 17&26]

Actually the Assembly Pin #110 and the Recoil Spring Catch #194 also need to be hard chromed. See http://www.kel-tec.com/p3at_parts.htm That plus your complete slide & barrel is all that are needed.

I prefer Kel-Tec to test fire my pistols after hard chrome, which can’t be accomplished with only parts. From Texas to Florida it only cost $9 ($14 second day) to ship the entire pistol via ground (takes about a week). See http://1bad69.com/keltec/shipping.htm for more information.

Last I heard Kel-Tec was thanking 3 to 4 weeks to turn around their hard chrome jobs. Best dig out your ol’ P-32 if you don’t have a second P-3AT. Yes, I buy everything in pairs :^)

[Bart Noir]

I'm sure you meant 194 for the Recoil Spring Catch. I've been thinking of getting my slide chromed. So what carrier did you you use, to get those shipping prices?

Still not sure I want to do this. I ship out the parts to a functional, new gun and get back other parts. Somebody else's used parts, after chroming? Or new ones? Either way, do I end up with a functional gun? Has anybody ended up with problems that didn't exist before sending parts in for the chroming?

Bart Noir
Who thinks this is one great little pistola.

[Wilson 17&26]

OOPS! I’ve corrected my post.

I use my local UPS Store to send my “machine parts” to Kel-Tec. Now I don’t tell them there is a gun in my pre-wrapped and pre-sealed package. They would likely indicate that on the outside of the package. The 1968 Gun Control Act says I don’t have to give written notice to a common carrier when shipping to a manufacture or FFL, so I don’t. In fact it would be a violation should they note it on the package and I sure don’t want UPS to violate the law.

I always insure my “parts” for $300 (that’s in the $9 & $14). When ask what is in the package I honestly say “The parts on this list, do you need a copy for your insurance records?” and offer them a typed list of every part number (not the description) listed on the Kel-Tec web page for that pistol. The List is headed Job No. (serial number). I’ve never had a clerk keep the list but I do, should I need to file a claim.

Yes, I know the ATF Q&A page implies you have to give written notice to common carriers but the law and their own regulations say exactly the opposite, if it’s to a FFL or manufacture. I covered this on the Kel-Tec Forum and the moderator posted a more detailed web page at http://1bad69.com/keltec/shipping.htm

Kel-Tec scraps all used parts. All hard chrome parts are NEW, A very very few folks have had problems getting the new parts 100% in their P-3AT. That’s the reason I always ship the whole pistol and let their gunsmith test fire it. I doubt Kel-Tec likes my procedure but they have never advised me to do different.
Wilson